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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #1  
Unread 11-11-2017, 01:31 PM
Clair Y Clair Y is offline
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Understanding the Terms and Faces of Planets

Good afternoon.

Most of us are aware of Ptolemy's table of essential dignities:
http://astroschool-pullzone.ds7srfgl...-dignities.pdf

My question is, are there any Astrologers who truly understand Ptolemy's reasoning for his Terms specifically and the signs and degrees that render each planet a little more in dignity than it would be otherwise?

Rulership, exaltation, detriment, fall and face are all fairly straightforward and simple to understand in reasoning, plus the patterns within them are fairly obvious, but not so much with the Terms.

Do I need to read the Tetrabiblos? Is his reasoning in there?
This just doesn't appear to be common knowledge thusfar, to me.

Thanks

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  #2  
Unread 11-11-2017, 09:56 PM
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waybread waybread is offline
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Re: Understanding the Terms and Faces of Planets

You should be able to find Tetrabiblos at a nearby university library; or just ask your nearest public library branch to get it for you through Inter-Library Loan. Given your question, you might find it interesting. I have the Loeb Classical Library translation. https://www.amazon.com/Ptolemy-Tetra.../dp/0674994795

Ptolemy (ca. 150 CE) lived in Alexandria Egypt, which was a crossroads of Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Babylonian, and other cultures. He mentions both the Egyptian and Babylonian terms, but finds the Babylonian terms more logical. My hunch is that the variable length of the terms means they were probably based on asterisms (star clusters) used in the Babylonian and Egyptian star-calendar systems, respectively.

Ptolemy (sec. 1:20-21) said that the Egyptian system was based upon the "government" of signs; and the Chaldean system was based on the government of the triplicities. He goes into some detail showing what he thinks are inconsistencies of the Egyptian system.

For a much easier explanation than Ptolemy gives, see Deborah Houlding's explanations at Skyscript:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/terms.html

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig3.html
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Unread 11-12-2017, 07:28 PM
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Re: Understanding the Terms and Faces of Planets

I would use Chaldean terms instead of Ptolemaic. What are they? A type of planetary dignity. Terms tend to be of the body (something physical), or sometimes denote talent.

The reason planets in later degrees of signs are considered unfortunate is that the later degrees of most signs are ruled by malefics, either Saturn or Mars.
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  #4  
Unread 09-30-2019, 10:30 AM
Clair Y Clair Y is offline
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Re: Understanding the Terms and Faces of Planets

Thank you Waybread and Oddity, both of your answers are very helpful. Thank you for the usful links, Waybread.

It is not directly straight-forward in reasoning and I need to do some more reading research in order to understand the terms.

Have a good day.
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Unread 09-30-2019, 11:45 AM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Understanding the Terms and Faces of Planets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clair Y View Post
Good afternoon.

Most of us are aware of Ptolemy's table of essential dignities:
http://astroschool-pullzone.ds7srfgl...-dignities.pdf

My question is, are there any Astrologers who truly understand Ptolemy's reasoning for his Terms specifically and the signs and degrees that render each planet a little more in dignity than it would be otherwise?

Rulership, exaltation, detriment, fall and face are all fairly straightforward and simple to understand in reasoning, plus the patterns within them are fairly obvious, but not so much with the Terms.

Do I need to read the Tetrabiblos? Is his reasoning in there?
This just doesn't appear to be common knowledge thusfar, to me.


Thanks
petosiris explanation is

at https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...424#post973424

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post


Maybe we should read what Ptolemy actually says - http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...os/1B*.html#21,

and what I, petosiris, faithfully set forth and expounded.

Saturn 57°, Jupiter 79°, Mars 66°, Venus 82°, Mercury 76°, the total is 360°. Their arrangement within each place is based on elevation, triangle and house, for the planets with two familiarities are always put first even though they may be maleficent, but where this condition does not exist, the maleficent planets are always put last, the lords of the elevation first, the lords of the triangle second, and the lords of the house third, following the order of the places, and again, those that control two familiarities are preferred to those that have but one. Since no terms are given to the luminaries, the houses of the Sun and the Moon are assigned to Saturn and Mars respectively. As for the number of the terms, when no planet is found with two prerogatives, either with the same place or with those that follow it within the quadrant, there are 7° assigned to beneficent planets, 5° to maleficent planets, and 6° to Mercury, which is common, so that the total is 30°. But since some always have two prerogatives, they are given extra degree, subtracted from those that have but one, proportionally starting with the slower moving planets, however, one does not subtract from Jupiter in Cancer on account of the elevation, and from Mars on account of its revolution.









As can be seen, this table is made of the least steps possible, simple and absolutely indisputable.




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  #6  
Unread 10-01-2019, 10:59 AM
Clair Y Clair Y is offline
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Re: Understanding the Terms and Faces of Planets

Thank you JupiterAsc, there's plenty of info here to keep me happy for a few days on top of my workload. I'll come back if I have any questions or find any of this confusing. Hopefully it will all fall into place!
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