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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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Unread 03-06-2019, 01:22 PM
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petosiris petosiris is offline
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Reconstruction of Ptolemaic Terms

I posted it on skyscript, I might as well post it here.

1. Order:
Aries
Jupiter is first because of triangle
Venus is second because of house and triangle in Taurus
Mercury is third because of house and triangle in Gemini
Mars is fourth because of house
Saturn is fifth

Taurus
Venus is first because of triangle and house
Mercury is second because of house and triangle in Gemini
Jupiter is third because it is benefic
Saturn is fourth because it has triangle in Gemini
Mars is fifth

Gemini
Mercury is first because of triangle and house
Jupiter is second because of exaltation in Cancer
Venus is third because it is benefic
Saturn is fourth because of triangle in the same sign
Mars is fifth

Cancer
Mars is first because of triangle and house
Jupiter is second because of exaltation
Mercury is third because of exaltation and house in Virgo
Venus is fourth because of triangle in Virgo
Saturn is fifth

Leo
Jupiter is first because of triangle
Mercury is second because of exaltation and house in Virgo
Venus is third because of triangle in Virgo
Saturn is fourth because of house
Mars is fifth

Virgo
Mercury is first because of exaltation and house
Venus is second because of triangle
Jupiter is third because it is benefic
Saturn is fourth because of exaltation and triangle in Libra
Mars is fifth

Libra
Saturn is first because of exaltation and triangle
Mercury is second because of triangle
Venus is third because of house
Jupiter is fourth because it is benefic
Mars is fifth

Scorpio
Mars is first because of triangle and house
Jupiter is second because of triangle and house in Sagittarius
Venus is third because of triangle in Capricorn
Mercury is fourth because it is common
Saturn is fifth

Sagittarius
Jupiter is first because of triangle and house
Venus is second because of triangle in Capricorn
Mercury is third because of triangle in Aquarius
Mars is fourth because of exaltation in Capricorn the following sign
Saturn is fifth

Capricorn
Venus is first because of triangle
Mercury is second because of triangle in Aquarius
Jupiter is third because it is benefic
Mars is fourth because of exaltation in the same sign
Saturn is fifth

Aquarius
Saturn is first because of house and triangle
Mercury is second because of triangle
Venus is third because of exaltation in Pisces
Jupiter is fourth because it is benefic
Mars is fifth

Pisces
Venus is first because of exaltation
Jupiter is second because of house
Mercury is third because it is common
Mars is fourth because it has house in Aries
Saturn is fifth

In this way, the order of the following signs was consistently followed, in accord with the instructions by Ptolemy. Some are misled by the statement ''And again in order, those that have two lordships each are preferred to the one which has but one in the same sign'' to assign the malefics differently (for example Mars before Saturn in Gemini or after Saturn in Capricorn), but they do not follow the instruction of the order of following signs of the previous sentence. This instruction seems to refer to Cancer and Leo where Mercury has one more familiarity than Venus. Thus six terms end with Saturn, and six terms end with Mars, two with beginnings.

2. Assign + 1 degree to those that have two familiarities in one of the signs of a quadrant:
Saturn receives 6 in Leo, Virgo, Libra, Sagittarius, Capricorn and Aquarius
Jupiter receives 8 in Libra, Capricorn and Sagittarius
Mars receives 6 in Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Virgo, Libra and Scorpio
Venus receives 8 in Aries, Taurus and Pisces
Mercury receives 7 in Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo and Virgo

3. Assign the remaining degrees accordingly, subtracting from the slowest whenever possible:
In Aries, we subtract 1 from Saturn and 1 from Jupiter
In Taurus, we subtract 2 from Saturn and 1 from Jupiter
In Gemini, we subtract 1 from Saturn and 1 from Jupiter
In Cancer, we subtract 2 from Saturn
In Leo, we subtract 1 from Jupiter and 1 from Venus
(Mars gets 5 in all his remaining terms for 66 - 36 = 30 : 5 degrees = 6 equal terms)
In Virgo, we subtract 2 from Jupiter and 1 from Venus
In Libra, we subtract 2 from Venus and 1 from Mercury (those have one, but Venus is slower)
In Scorpio, we subtract 2 from Saturn
In Sagittarius, we subtract 1 from Venus and 1 from Mercury
In Capricorn, we subtract 1 from Jupiter
In Aquarius, we subtract 1 from Jupiter
In Pisces, we subtract 1 from Saturn

In this way, we only subtract proportionally from Venus and Mercury only when we can't subtract from Saturn and Jupiter. I believe Ptolemy intended his instructions to be sufficient in this way.

Sources:
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...os/1B*.html#20
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/pdf/Hould...lemy_terms.pdf


Last edited by petosiris; 03-06-2019 at 04:08 PM.
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  #2  
Unread 03-06-2019, 01:27 PM
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Re: Reconstruction of Ptolemaic Terms

There exist dozens of tables from antiquity, but only this one is correct, since it agrees with ''Ptolemy and Reason''.
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Unread 03-07-2019, 03:54 PM
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Re: Reconstruction of Ptolemaic Terms

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

There exist dozens of tables from antiquity, but
only this one is correct, since it agrees with ''Ptolemy and Reason''.
Thank you

BobZemco sometimes claimed "Ptolemys Ptrue Pterms" as being:


QUOTE

'....To read this, Jupiter has the first 6 degrees of Aries
which would be 0 to 5degrees
then Venus the next 8 degrees from 6 to 13
then Mercury from 14 to 20
then Mars from 21 to 25
and finally Saturn from 26 to 29...'


Aries
6

♀ 8

7

♂ 5

4


Taurus
♀ 8

7

7

2

♂ 6


Gemini
7

6

♀ 7

♂ 6

4


Cancer
♂ 6

7

7

♀ 7

3


Leo
6

7

6

♀ 6

♂ 5


Virgo
7

♀ 6

5

6

♂ 6


Libra
6

♀ 7

8

6

♂ 3


Scorpio
♂ 6

♀ 7

8

6

3


Sagittarius
8

♀ 6

5

6

♂ 5


Capricornus
♀ 6

6

7

6

♂ 5


Aquarius
6

6

♀ 8

5

♂ 5


Pisces
♀ 8

6

6

♂ 5

5


However BobZemco provided no rationale at the time
and is unlikely to comment having been absent for a few years now

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Unread 05-22-2019, 03:02 PM
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Re: Reconstruction of Ptolemaic Terms

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
I posted it on skyscript, I might as well post it here.

1. Order:
Aries
Jupiter is first because of triangle
Venus is second because of house and triangle in Taurus
Mercury is third because of house and triangle in Gemini
Mars is fourth because of house
Saturn is fifth

Taurus
Venus is first because of triangle and house
Mercury is second because of house and triangle in Gemini
Jupiter is third because it is benefic
Saturn is fourth because it has triangle in Gemini
Mars is fifth

Gemini
Mercury is first because of triangle and house
Jupiter is second because of exaltation in Cancer
Venus is third because it is benefic
Saturn is fourth because of triangle in the same sign
Mars is fifth

Cancer
Mars is first because of triangle and house
Jupiter is second because of exaltation
Mercury is third because of exaltation and house in Virgo
Venus is fourth because of triangle in Virgo
Saturn is fifth

Leo
Jupiter is first because of triangle
Mercury is second because of exaltation and house in Virgo
Venus is third because of triangle in Virgo
Saturn is fourth because of house
Mars is fifth

Virgo
Mercury is first because of exaltation and house
Venus is second because of triangle
Jupiter is third because it is benefic
Saturn is fourth because of exaltation and triangle in Libra
Mars is fifth

Libra
Saturn is first because of exaltation and triangle
Mercury is second because of triangle
Venus is third because of house
Jupiter is fourth because it is benefic
Mars is fifth

Scorpio
Mars is first because of triangle and house
Jupiter is second because of triangle and house in Sagittarius
Venus is third because of triangle in Capricorn
Mercury is fourth because it is common
Saturn is fifth

Sagittarius
Jupiter is first because of triangle and house
Venus is second because of triangle in Capricorn
Mercury is third because of triangle in Aquarius
Mars is fourth because of exaltation in Capricorn the following sign
Saturn is fifth

Capricorn
Venus is first because of triangle
Mercury is second because of triangle in Aquarius
Jupiter is third because it is benefic
Mars is fourth because of exaltation in the same sign
Saturn is fifth

Aquarius
Saturn is first because of house and triangle
Mercury is second because of triangle
Venus is third because of exaltation in Pisces
Jupiter is fourth because it is benefic
Mars is fifth

Pisces
Venus is first because of exaltation
Jupiter is second because of house
Mercury is third because it is common
Mars is fourth because it has house in Aries
Saturn is fifth

In this way, the order of the following signs was consistently followed, in accord with the instructions by Ptolemy. Some are misled by the statement ''And again in order, those that have two lordships each are preferred to the one which has but one in the same sign'' to assign the malefics differently (for example Mars before Saturn in Gemini or after Saturn in Capricorn), but they do not follow the instruction of the order of following signs of the previous sentence. This instruction seems to refer to Cancer and Leo where Mercury has one more familiarity than Venus. Thus six terms end with Saturn, and six terms end with Mars, two with beginnings.

2. Assign + 1 degree to those that have two familiarities in one of the signs of a quadrant:
Saturn receives 6 in Leo, Virgo, Libra, Sagittarius, Capricorn and Aquarius
Jupiter receives 8 in Libra, Capricorn and Sagittarius
Mars receives 6 in Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Virgo, Libra and Scorpio
Venus receives 8 in Aries, Taurus and Pisces
Mercury receives 7 in Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo and Virgo

3. Assign the remaining degrees accordingly, subtracting from the slowest whenever possible:
In Aries, we subtract 1 from Saturn and 1 from Jupiter
In Taurus, we subtract 2 from Saturn and 1 from Jupiter
In Gemini, we subtract 1 from Saturn and 1 from Jupiter
In Cancer, we subtract 2 from Saturn
In Leo, we subtract 1 from Jupiter and 1 from Venus
(Mars gets 5 in all his remaining terms for 66 - 36 = 30 : 5 degrees = 6 equal terms)
In Virgo, we subtract 2 from Jupiter and 1 from Venus
In Libra, we subtract 2 from Venus and 1 from Mercury (those have one, but Venus is slower)
In Scorpio, we subtract 2 from Saturn
In Sagittarius, we subtract 1 from Venus and 1 from Mercury
In Capricorn, we subtract 1 from Jupiter
In Aquarius, we subtract 1 from Jupiter
In Pisces, we subtract 1 from Saturn

In this way, we only subtract proportionally from Venus and Mercury only when we can't subtract from Saturn and Jupiter. I believe Ptolemy intended his instructions to be sufficient in this way.

Sources:
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...os/1B*.html#20
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/pdf/Hould...lemy_terms.pdf

The Ptolemaic bounds numbers revealed
https://www.taniadaniels.com/ptolema...zculk5lIngL1EM
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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Unread 05-22-2019, 06:03 PM
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petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Reconstruction of Ptolemaic Terms

Maybe we should read what Ptolemy actually says - http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...os/1B*.html#21, and what I, petosiris, faithfully set forth and expounded.

Saturn 57, Jupiter 79, Mars 66, Venus 82, Mercury 76, the total is 360. Their arrangement within each place is based on elevation, triangle and house, for the planets with two familiarities are always put first even though they may be maleficent, but where this condition does not exist, the maleficent planets are always put last, the lords of the elevation first, the lords of the triangle second, and the lords of the house third, following the order of the places, and again, those that control two familiarities are preferred to those that have but one. Since no terms are given to the luminaries, the houses of the Sun and the Moon are assigned to Saturn and Mars respectively. As for the number of the terms, when no planet is found with two prerogatives, either with the same place or with those that follow it within the quadrant, there are 7 assigned to beneficent planets, 5 to maleficent planets, and 6 to Mercury, which is common, so that the total is 30. But since some always have two prerogatives, they are given extra degree, subtracted from those that have but one, proportionally starting with the slower moving planets, however, one does not subtract from Jupiter in Cancer on account of the elevation, and from Mars on account of its revolution.



As can be seen, this table is made of the least steps possible, simple and absolutely indisputable.

Last edited by petosiris; 05-22-2019 at 07:03 PM.
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