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Horary Questions on Medicine and health For questions about health, illnesses and recovery, pregnancy and baby gender.


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  #1  
Unread 04-25-2010, 04:19 AM
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Horary Test: Am I pregnant?

Keeping the ball rolling on the horary tests I thought I would post one since both wintersprite and RayAustin have revealed theirs already. Hopefully we can keep this rolling for quite some time, though I do have to admit that my own stores of reliable known outcome charts is rather low. Hopefully some other nice people can step up and fill out the ranks before it comes back to being my turn.

Backstory: Okay, so obviously the question is "Am I pregnant?" This question was asked by a 22 year old woman about a week and a half to two weeks after the initial copulation (if memory serves). I don't remember how old the man was. Pretty simple right?

One thing I thought I'd touch on as far as how these tests are supposed to work. Everyone who has responded to them so far seems to have a pretty good grasp of explaining themselves and what they see and how they arrive at their own conclusion. That's fantastic. The only other thing I could mention is that if you intend to play the test game, you should not read other people's interpretations. It spoils the fun and I will come after you . Obviously I can't "come after you" or stop you, but it ruins the point as you won't learn anything or stretch a muscle. If you're curious as to what others have to say (as everyone always is) then be sure to go back and read after you've posted your interpretation. Everyone got that? Awesome.



Have at it!

Oh yeah, I'll reveal in three days (if I remember).

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Unread 04-25-2010, 05:32 AM
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Re: Horary Test: Am I pregnant?

Yes, hopefully we can keep these tests going, it really is something this forum desperately *needs*.

I appreciate the omission of the time and the aspect grid for the more advanced horarists--though this will make it difficult for beginners/intermediates who can't see the aspects themselves or need to look at the extra stuff. I realize though, lol, I forgot to put the time of asking in my own thread--which was my intention. Argh.


Spoiler---Don't Peek!


Otherwise:
My take is NO.. not now, not yet at the time of asking.
Theres plenty more NO's than YES.

Testimonies of YES:
Jupiter, significator of Children in 5H
5th Lord within the sign of the querent
Moon will eventually conjunct Jupiter
Merc in domicile in 10th -- success
Moon aspects 5th by trine
Merc trine Jupiter

Testimonies of NO:
Barren Sign Ascending
Moon is Barren
5th Ruler is Barren in querent's sign, "fruitless efforts"
5th Ruler is Saturn, not a profilic planet
5th dispositor barren
Mercury in barren sign in an unfortunate house (6th--no aspect) from 5th house
5th from 4th End of Matter opposes the 5th house
Mars opposes the fifth house
Jupiter, Sig of children is barren
Moon aspects 5th Lord by trine but from unfortunate houses, 12th house & 12th from 5th

Yes: 6 No: 10


Summary:
The chances are slim for pregnancy. She probably has bad health habits (6th in 12th) but trying to correct them (Saturn in Joy in 12h).
The querent is having lots of sex, but nothing going on in the procreative arena. They don't appear fertile enough, but after many tries they'll eventually get it, but not pregnant at time of asking. Moon conjuncts Jupiter in the 5th but currently out of moiety, so eventually they will be pregnant.
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Last edited by RayAustin; 04-25-2010 at 05:57 AM.
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Unread 04-25-2010, 08:16 AM
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Re: Horary Test: Am I pregnant?

OK, I think it looks like a *no*, because of all the infertile signs (Mercury, the querent, strong in own sign and accidentally dignified, but barren.) but I think the answer is *yes*.

Negatives: the 5th house ruler Saturn, not good at all, and in the 12th would suggest a "no".
But this could still be that a pregnancy is hidden as it is very early in the development of the fetus when this question was asked.

Now for the positives: Moon, co-significator of the querent but also of children will trine the Ascendant. Jupiter (expansion, great beneficiary) in her 5th house. Jupiter is the ruler of her house of family and rules the Moon. So this translates to me as an expansion, through a baby, in her home. I am missing the North Node Kai, that is always very important when we want to know about babies.

Last but not least, Saturn (the baby) is in term of Mercury, (the querent).

If it will last is another question because Mercury will inconjunct Jupiter in about 2° which could mean that something is not really balanced out. And Mercury will square Uranus, showing an unexpected situation (loss?).
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Unread 04-25-2010, 08:38 AM
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Re: Horary Test: Am I pregnant?

"YES" she is pregnant.
Why?
1st and foremost, Part of Conception 24Scorpio50, in top fertile sign (only equalled by Cancer); posited in 3rd (whole sign), sextile (platic by sign) to 5th; Mars disposits Part of Conception and joins this to Part of Mothers (24 Aries10) and to Part of Female Intercourse (25 Aries 11); Mars, dispositor of all these related Parts, posited high in the chart (in 11th house of "Good Spirit"), in its own element of fire, in the first Manilius decanate of Leo =Aries, thus in its (decanate based) rulership; Mars also in platic (by sign) sextile to Venus (important, with the Moon, as conception significator), Venus, direct, posited in its fruitful rulership of Taurus, elevated high in the chart (9th house)
+Mercury, querent's Lord of ascendant (and primary significator), most elevated planet in chart, posited high in 10th, semi-sextile to Venus (hard to see in posted chart if Venus is 22 or 27 Taurus; I believe it is 22; if it is 27, however, then we'll call it a platic semi-sextile); Mercury direct, in its rulership (Gemini), in sextile to Part of Mothers and Part of Female Intercourse (24 and 25 Aries, respectively)\
+By whole sign I posit Luna in the 5th house, where it joins (ie, in the house) the benefic Jupiter; Moon chases (brings events to) planets Jupiter through Mercury (querent's significator), including the fertile Venus in Taurus.

(Note: if Dragon's Tail position turns out to be in Scorpio or Capricorn or parallel Mercury, possibly Moon or, maybe, Venus, this would argue against the strength of my "YES" answer, but, probably, would, in the end, not cancel it out)

Last edited by dr. farr; 04-25-2010 at 08:40 AM.
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Unread 04-25-2010, 11:51 AM
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Re: Horary Test: Am I pregnant?

My guess is no, not pregnant.
If happening some difficulties.

Analysed from the vedic chart.

Saturn in asc in sideral leo is negative.

Fixed sign asc...no change of status quo.

Asc lord sun applies to debilitated mars not good for health
and the question.
5th lord jupiter Rx implies do it again ..delays.
Mars natural malefic aspects 5th house.

Last edited by Shanti; 04-25-2010 at 11:57 AM.
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Unread 04-25-2010, 12:42 PM
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Re: Horary Test: Am I pregnant?

Good Lord Dr.Farr, that is impressive and I dont think I can ever do it in such a way, but bringing attention to the parts, and obviously (for you anyways) important to look at, I will from now on pay more attention to them. So far I actually only looked at the part of life and part of death.

I noticed you look at semi-sextiles, but only if they are exact? (Anthony Louis does).
Lets see if indeed we came to the right answer!

Starlink
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Unread 04-25-2010, 12:45 PM
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Re: Horary Test: Am I pregnant?

Quote:
Fixed sign asc...no change of status quo.
Shanti, the Asc. sign is mutable, not fixed (Virgo).
All the angles here are mutable. In horary fixed angles often point to a *yes* and mutable to a *no* as far as I know, but again, I think it is nevertheless a "yes" as stated in my post.
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Unread 04-25-2010, 01:54 PM
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Re: Horary Test: Am I pregnant?

Quote Starlink.

'I am missing the North Node'.

The True NN is at 21 Aquarius 49,con Chiron at 21 Aq' 09.

Perhaps Chiron is linked with Virgo?

Jerry
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Unread 04-25-2010, 01:54 PM
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Re: Horary Test: Am I pregnant?

wow just seen this and many replys allready...
okay so im a known pregnancy horay answerer here so it would be a crime for me not to try this one.


first i see the asc and ruler see each other and the moon is not voc, so fit to be read.

1. Asc in non fertile virgo in the 10th House.. lilly is ok with the asc in the 10th so okay

2. 5th ruler is not fertile either and in non fertile saturn in the 12 house of hidden things.. I feel asc ruler passing a square from her 5th ruler showing problems in the past with her cycles or something like that.

3. jupiter is in her 5th and is not aspecting anything within a decent degrees
4. the moon is early and will trine her 5th house ruler saturn showing she will find out in a week from the chart.

the problem for me here is there are no past aspects and non fertile plannets, but the moon is just about perfect a trine to saturn (her 5th ruler).

if her egg has been fertialised i would have thought we would see the moon or jupiter past aspet to saturn her 5th!

I dont want to sit on the fense with this... non fertile plannets and no past aspect.. would mean a no but because....

jupiter trine uranus in the 7th of unexpectedness and moon her feelings apprioaching trine to saturn
ill stick with a yes!
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Unread 04-25-2010, 02:09 PM
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Re: Horary Test: Am I pregnant?

Thanks Jerry! Well, then Mercury is also going to trine the NorthNode which is another positive indication I guess, although I would have prefered to see it in the 5th house. I dont use Chiron in horary so I dismiss that.
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Unread 04-25-2010, 02:31 PM
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Re: Horary Test: Am I pregnant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by starlink View Post
Shanti, the Asc. sign is mutable, not fixed (Virgo).
All the angles here are mutable. In horary fixed angles often point to a *yes* and mutable to a *no* as far as I know, but again, I think it is nevertheless a "yes" as stated in my post.
Hi Starlink,

I used the sideral positions and vedic methodology,
And having checked my sourcebook about that now, a fixed
asc is good for pregnacy contrary to what I said in earlier
post.

But I stick to a 'No' anyway.
Saturn in the first house in sideral, whole houses don't seems
good.
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Unread 04-25-2010, 02:32 PM
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Re: Horary Test: Am I pregnant?

Yes. The Lord of the ASC is Mercury, Mercury is not only in the 10th house(career/social change), but she is 3 degrees conjunct the Midheaven. Ontop of that the Moon, the end of the matter is in the 4th house conjunct Pluto(revolutions, etc).
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Unread 04-25-2010, 02:47 PM
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Re: Horary Test: Am I pregnant?

No problems Starlink.

Quote Frank.

'Here's a test you can do to see if Chiron is the Domicile ruler of Virgo'

'Substitute Chiron as the Significator and see if the chart works'

I noticed Moon =Venus/Mars.
Strong emotional impulses,an early desire for marriage.The entering into marriage,motherhood.

COSI. Reinhold Ebertine.

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Unread 04-25-2010, 03:18 PM
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Re: Horary Test: Am I pregnant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi View Post
Keeping the ball rolling on the horary tests I thought I would post one since both wintersprite and RayAustin have revealed theirs already. Hopefully we can keep this rolling for quite some time, though I do have to admit that my own stores of reliable known outcome charts is rather low. Hopefully some other nice people can step up and fill out the ranks before it comes back to being my turn.

Backstory: Okay, so obviously the question is "Am I pregnant?" This question was asked by a 22 year old woman about a week and a half to two weeks after the initial copulation (if memory serves). I don't remember how old the man was. Pretty simple right?

One thing I thought I'd touch on as far as how these tests are supposed to work. Everyone who has responded to them so far seems to have a pretty good grasp of explaining themselves and what they see and how they arrive at their own conclusion. That's fantastic. The only other thing I could mention is that if you intend to play the test game, you should not read other people's interpretations. It spoils the fun and I will come after you . Obviously I can't "come after you" or stop you, but it ruins the point as you won't learn anything or stretch a muscle. If you're curious as to what others have to say (as everyone always is) then be sure to go back and read after you've posted your interpretation. Everyone got that? Awesome.



Have at it!

Oh yeah, I'll reveal in three days (if I remember).


My first thought was yes, with Jupiter in the 5th house of children and Moon approaching to conjunction. There is also a trine between Venus, natural ruler of females to Jupiter. But, Jupiter is in the barren sign of Capricorn ruled by Saturn in the 12th house of hidden matters. In addition, Mercury, her ruler is approaching to conjunction with the Sun, which is not good. I would say that she was pregnant and will loose the pregnancy because of Saturn being placed in the 12th house, Saturn being barren or maybe indicating complications as it also rules hospitals, and the quarent ruler approaching the conjunction of Sun.
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Unread 04-25-2010, 04:31 PM
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Re: Horary Test: Am I pregnant?

Quote:
I used the sideral positions and vedic methodology
Ah, I understand. It is great to see all these different reactions to the same question.
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Unread 04-25-2010, 04:54 PM
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Re: Horary Test: Am I pregnant?

Quote:
I would say that she was pregnant and will loose the pregnancy because of Saturn being placed in the 12th house, Saturn being barren or maybe indicating complications
Hello Vista!! nice seeing you here. We were thinking along the same lines here, interesting.Like I said:
Quote:
If it will last is another question because Mercury will inconjunct Jupiter in about 2° which could mean that something is not really balanced out. And Mercury will square Uranus, showing an unexpected situation (loss?).
But all in all, I still do think she is pregnant at the time of the question. Lets see if we were right. I am getting VERY curious by now.
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Unread 04-26-2010, 12:12 AM
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Re: Horary Test: Am I pregnant?

Quick poke through to answer a couple of concerns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RayAustin
I appreciate the omission of the time and the aspect grid for the more advanced horarists--though this will make it difficult for beginners/intermediates who can't see the aspects themselves or need to look at the extra stuff.
Oh, snap. You're right. I didn't think about it. These are the kinds of charts I look at and I forget that not everyone picks on aspects as easily as others. Sorry everyone if this confused you. :S The program I made this chart with doesn't list an aspect grid or any of that fancy stuff, sometimes that can be a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by starlink
I am missing the North Node Kai, that is always very important when we want to know about babies.
Sorry Starlink. This was back before I really understood the Nodes so it wasn't included in this chart. Looks like I'm 0 for 2. Going to have to do another one to make up for this one, it seems. Luckily, we have an answer for you and anyone else that missed it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerryrr
The True NN is at 21 Aquarius 49,con Chiron at 21 Aq' 09.
Thanks, Jerry, for covering this one for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Farr
(hard to see in posted chart if Venus is 22 or 27 Taurus; I believe it is 22; if it is 27, however, then we'll call it a platic semi-sextile)
Hey Dr. Farr. Venus is at 27 Taurus. Sorry about the colors. They make me smile. My next one won't be so colorful. Promise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ53
Ok...I'm never going to grasp the rules of horary...but, having been inspired by Dr. Farr's encouragement to find my own path and have a go without fear,
Oh EJ, you'll get it. Everyone struggles at first. All it takes is some reading, studying, and learning.
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Unread 04-26-2010, 01:20 AM
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Re: Horary Test: Am I pregnant?

Kai would you mind in posting an astro.com chart or passing the details, these charts make me confused!
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Unread 04-26-2010, 02:24 AM
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Re: Horary Test: Am I pregnant?

when i first started doing horay here i was told you dont look at n node or any of those other points....

Not fair! lol

Oh another thing im now confused with is this.... I notice people here are answering like its a natal chart and annalysing this and that on it.... and thats cool its informative BUT
I thought a horay chart was read differently and one that with the specific question in mind must be read specifically also... ?

I was under the impression that only the signifyers should be looked at and what is aspecting it and the moon and jupiter for pregnancy charts.

otherwise you can ask a question with lots of things going on that you want to find out about and the chart cant be read like that... its specific its not a natal chart as such.... maybe some things "happen to fit" but I was taught that only the question should be kept in mind...

Last edited by DiDi; 04-26-2010 at 02:32 AM.
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Unread 04-26-2010, 03:08 AM
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Re: Horary Test: Am I pregnant?

Didi:
Again, you are correct (relative to what you were taught, within the context of who taught it to you)-but here again, the basics evolve with each practitioner's extended personal experiences and insights! As long as ALL of the considerations made are directly related to understanding the celestial answer to the specific question, it remains a horary delineation. Remember one thing: here we have a yes/no question: the querent (I don't think) was interested in an exhaustive analysis of why a response to her yes/no question was given, simply that she got a yes or a no. If she had asked me, I would, after analysis, have simply said "Yes you are pregnant" (and that's about all I would have responded with); but what we're all doing here in this exercise is explaining (to each other) exactly why we came to our yes or no answer. Hence the addition of outlooks and techniques that may differ from what the books (or course teachers) tell beginners they should do. I'll agree with those books and teachers-students should do as they are taught, until time, experiences, insight developed upon wider studies, etc, lead each practitioner to modify the basics, into their own, personal approach to the ART.
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Unread 04-26-2010, 05:11 AM
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Angry Re: Horary Test: Am I pregnant?

Thanks clear as allways!

I know on here we are all annalysing and learning this thread, thats why we are here to learn... Thats what makes it a great site!

I find for us beginners that the more indepth and the more points in the chart that are annalysed the less we and the others will join in.. its over our head and i fear that the post here will be lost to how a pregnancy horay should be read!

weather its up to a person who they follow and how they follow or not.. there are guidlines here in this particlular astrology and pregnancy is even different from say a relational horay...

I think what im trying to say is it would be good if these threads are kept an eye on from those that are experianced in this area... I can see people answering horay charts now thinking its ok to look outside of the square here... and i say this for one reason.... ( the people that are posting the threads will listen to what they say) right or wrong they will think its true.

Last edited by DiDi; 04-26-2010 at 05:14 AM.
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Unread 04-26-2010, 07:14 AM
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Re: Horary Test: Am I pregnant?

Hi Didi, I fully understand your confusion. It was the same for me when I started and read an interpretation where more advanced traditional astrologers would mention all the terms and faces and antiscia/contra-antiscia and what not! And yes, also about the Nodes. I had NO idea what to do with those. What I did was the following. When I saw something I did not know nor understood, I would only concentrate on those things for a while. So I went into the internet to the tutoring of Deborah Holding, really well done with questions after each paragraph. I went to where she writes about the table of essential dignities, I printed one out from the internet and keep it at my side at all times (I will never get all those terms and faces into my head, I can just manage the falls, detriments, rulerships and exaltations). Then I saw this thing about Antiscia's. I still find that a real pain to calculate and I always forget using them and must be reminded. Then came the planetary hours etc. and with it if the chart is a day or a night chart.Another copied page next to me to help me determine those. So you see, it all comes gradually, trust me.

With a quizz like this, all different astrologers come in, some with a lot, some with less knowledge and like me, some with lots of modern astrological knowledge but far less traditional knowledge (am doing that only for 3 years about). I just love it as it is very complementary to what I learned. That's probably also why you think it looks like interpreting a natal chart instead of a horary. Soon you will be able to see the difference.(although in natal astrology I now also look at all those dignities and debilities).
So what did I learn from this? Everything Dr.Farr wrote about the parts. I only used to look at part of Fortune, Death and Life, he uses all of them I think. Now I will delve a bit more into that.
Just go with the flow for now. It is like learning a language by listening to others only.
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Unread 04-26-2010, 07:51 AM
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Re: Horary Test: Am I pregnant?

Oh EJ, I did not even start with Lilly! I started with my Dutch favorite Karen Hamaker-Zondag (because it was written in Dutch), then Anthony Louis and the tutoring of Deborah Houlding in the internet (skyscript) and only after that I thought (because it seemed to be a bit of a bible) of getting Lilly's Christian Astrology.
I have not read it completely. I followed all his interpretations (used the modern charts, cant get used to those square one's) of the questions given and in the beginning it was all a bit too much for me, so I did a step back and just got the basics into my head and instead of 43 aphorisms and considerations for better judgement of Lilly, I just use the most common one's (Moon VOC, early-late Asc., Saturn in 7 etc. Lilly is going into loads of details and really, many of them are not applicable these days (like Algol and being beheaded, unless by accident when you stick your head in a machine). I also cannot remember everything, so should there be a question about pregnancy like this one, I would go to that part in his book and see what he has to say about it. I do this for all subjects when I cannot figure it out easily, just to see if there is another indication I could use. Lilly is useful in many ways, but I would not say it is a must. Skyscript will do just fine, great tutoring with exercises. But if you want to become a *master* in the art of horary, maybe Lilly would be the book to use or any other very ancient philosopher/astronomer/astrologer.
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Last edited by starlink; 04-26-2010 at 07:54 AM.
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Unread 04-26-2010, 08:36 AM
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Re: Horary Test: Am I pregnant?

Quote:
I still cannot understand why I have to learn/use the language of William Lilly in order to learn horary astrology.
Because that's the language Lilly wrote it in, silly. :P There are several modern texts that will teach horary astrology, it's just that Lilly's has pretty much become something akin to the bible of horary astrologers.

If you have a question on horary techniques or Lilly's writings this is an astrology forum. :P I doubt you're the only one who would have a question about something written in that book so don't be afraid to ask. Horary is difficult to grasp, especially if you're coming from a modern background.

Quote:
It's the horary astrology techniques that I'm hoping to learn here, rather than it's esoteric Olde Worlde language and terminology....
But it is this ability that will open up a wide world of resources of astrological knowledge. I wouldn't be so quick to lose interest in it.
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Unread 04-26-2010, 09:19 AM
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Re: Horary Test: Am I pregnant?

Just to mention the major sources which I have borrowed from in my eclectic mix of my own personal approach to horary, there is Lilly (about 25%), Ivy-Goldstein Jacobson, Manly Palmer Hall (a lot from him-mostly from lectures I attended at the Philosophical Research Society in Los Angeles, back in the late 1970's), De Luce, Bonatti (via Robert Zoller's book on the Arabic Parts), some influences from jyotish Prasna Tantra (some of their techniques, though tropical signs rather than sidereal), a good deal from Al-Biruni and several of the Arab authorities, some Lunar concepts found in Volguine's "Lunar Astrology" (and applied by me to horary), and, last but not least, the most from the "Ankara (Turkish) School" ( primarily an oral tradition) via my old astrological friend and teacher, Pasha, back in the 1970's.

Last edited by dr. farr; 04-26-2010 at 09:28 AM.
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