The Ugly Side of the Age of Aquarius

david starling

Well-known member
I do think I have one of his....I googled him......I am looking:joyful:

As a Traditionalistic astrologer, Zoller can't accept the possibility that the Domicle-ruler of Aquarius could be anything other than Saturn, and maintains that Saturn won't ever change from being the Greater Malefic. For that reason, he takes a very dim view of the Aquarian Age, which he now believes won't begin for many centuries.
I, for one, discount anything Traditionalistic astrologers might have to say about the Age of Aquarius. Their opinions on the matter are too severely flawed, because of their insistence that Uranian Sign-rulership is non-existent. Also, as it now stands, the astrological Ages are a Modernistic phenomenon, and aren't even included in the Traditionalistic lexicon.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Since I consider Zoller a genius, it might sound strange for me to say that his opinion of what the Aquarian Age will be like is the antithesis of its true nature. An analogy as to why that's the case is, he's attempting to describe the results of an alchemical formula without including its key ingredient. His core philosophy regarding astrology limits what he's able to include.
 
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Ancar

Active member
I am not a big fan of Edison, I am a Tesla fan......
Nor am I any fan of Edison the person at all (he was actually quite an egotistical, self-promoting jerk [Brit. "wanker"?] with limited brilliance). I have far more admiration for Tesla's incredible genius (and he was much weirder and socially dysfunctional as any true genius should be! :biggrin:)

However, when talking about the symbology of an Age - and assuming that the Age of Aquarius did indeed begin in the 19th Century as per Burgoyne - Edison - from the 19th Century until the recent "rediscovery" of Tesla - has uncontrovertibly been the world's icon of the Age of Electricity (Aquarius) - not because he originated the practical use of electricity or even came close to perfecting the way to make widespread use of it (that was entirely Tesla's doing - DC to AC - with Westinghouse's financial backing), but simply because Thomas Alva Edison was the MAN who got the ball rolling to popularize the use of electricity with his great aptitude for dramatic publicity and his egregious overshadowing of those who actually made major contributions to the use of electricity. (Reminds me of some very important politicians of our present time.) And the great significance here is that this undeniable iconic symbol of the Age of Electricity (flawed though he was in reality) was Aquarius.

Both Darwin and Lincoln - both Aquarius - were also deeply flawed as individuals, and their "great works" were ultimately devastating - what Tennyson aptly summarized from Darwin's work as "nature, red in tooth and claw" spread like a dark cloud over civilization and may even have led to the unprecedented savagery of the great world wars - "survival of the fittest" was a perfect slogan, a powerful motivation for Nazism. But Darwin became the very symbol of a NEW SCIENCE - devoid of any spiritual influence that even Newton had upheld.

And many historians have ascertained that Lincoln freed the slaves, not so much for racial equality, but rather to incapacitate the economy of the Southern States, thus assuring the triumph of the TECHNOLOGICAL culture of the Northern States. His racial stance was always "free but separate" - Lincoln never espoused integration, despite the great public misconception of the Emancipation Proclamation.

But these three humans (cf. the Tetramorph - bull, ram, fish, and human) became POWERFUL symbols (i.e., icons detached from their human realities) in the world consciousness in the 19th Century. A real bull was not any different or more "sacred" in the Age of Taurus from what it is now - but the Bull as a symbol was. Likewise a real ram vs the symbol of the Ram during the Age of Aries, and the fish during the Age of Pisces.

As for the argument that the Age of Pisces could not have involved such monstrous cruelty and warfare as the Inquisition, the Albigensian "Crusade" or the entire Crusades themselves, the Spanish and later American massacres of the indigenous civilizations, the constant series of dreadful wars in Europe, etc., etc. - such horrific violence has always been the nature of the human species, regardless of the Age. I highly recommend that one read at least the third and last section of Arthur Koestler's Ghost in the Machine (the first two sections are heavy reading and mostly unnecessary "preparation" for Part Three, where the point of the book is finally "driven home"). At that point, Koestler jolts us with the fact that homo sapiens, rats, and ants are the ONLY species known to have no instinctive inhibition of all-out murderous warfare against their own species - all it takes is belonging to a different group (not a different species) and all that inhibits the urge to annihilate one's own kind is fear. He also points out that hunting and killing for food is a very different phenomenon, and that all predatory species (except man, rats, and ants) kill without any anger or hatred - simply with hunger. Even the "dueling" involved in the male territoriality of other species is usually rather "ceremonious" and is settled with the retreat of the weaker individual without death, rarely with serious injury, and no persistent rage or pursuant violence. Quite "unhumanlike".

What is important is the salient features of each Age that made it different from the others. The Age of Taurus was an age of massive, monumental construction and incredible material treasures, with long enduring empires that changed very little over the centuries. The Age of Aries was an age of rapid changes and upsets, unprecedented new ways of social organization (e.g. the Greek city-states), of exploration of innovative new concepts that were not brought to their ultimate development (so Aries), and finally of the most successful aggressive warfare and domination the world had ever known (the Roman Empire).

And the Age of Pisces was the first time in history that love, gentleness, selflessness, and anti-materialism had ever been embraced and exalted to such a remarkable degree - but this new and original benevolence was ultimately too weak to withstand the ever-present evil of human corruption that distorted it beyond recognition. How Pisces can you get?
 
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david starling

Well-known member
I can remember how much I struggled with The Ghost in the Machine at 20 despite feeling like it had all my answers, but there was no one to read it with, only references in other texts had pointed there. Just picked it up again to read as you directed, thanks.

Do you see any way to limit the negative potentiality of human-machine cognition and power in the coming years besides degrowth (which I don't see happening intentionally)?

What about the AI scare, taken to the extreme in the movie Matrix?
 

Opal

Premium Member
I can remember how much I struggled with The Ghost in the Machine at 20 despite feeling like it had all my answers, but there was no one to read it with, only references in other texts had pointed there. Just picked it up again to read as you directed, thanks.

Do you see any way to limit the negative potentiality of human-machine cognition and power in the coming years besides degrowth (which I don't see happening intentionally)?

I do not know of Ghost in the Machine........I will look it up.....
 

Opal

Premium Member
However, when talking about the symbology of an Age - and assuming that the Age of Aquarius did indeed begin in the 19th Century as per Burgoyne - Edison - from the 19th Century until the recent "rediscovery" of Tesla - has uncontrovertibly been the world's icon of the Age of Electricity (Aquarius) - not because he originated the practical use of electricity or even came close to perfecting the way to make widespread use of it (that was entirely Tesla's doing - DC to AC - with Westinghouse's financial backing), but simply because Thomas Alva Edison was the MAN who got the ball rolling to popularize the use of electricity with his great aptitude for dramatic publicity and his egregious overshadowing of those who actually made major contributions to the use of electricity. (Reminds me of some very important politicians of our present time.) And the great significance here is that this undeniable iconic symbol of the Age of Electricity (flawed though he was in reality) was Aquarius.

If, at this time I had to pick a representative for the age of aquarius......it would be Tesla.......

Yes, Edison got the heads up first and the money......he hired people, Tesla was one of them, and stole their ideas. Many of Edison's inventions are not his. Tesla left his employ and never reached the heights that he should have because he was not a greed monger like Edison, Westinghouse and J P Morgan.
 

Opal

Premium Member
Both Darwin and Lincoln - both Aquarius - were also deeply flawed as individuals, and their "great works" were ultimately devastating - what Tennyson aptly summarized from Darwin's work as "nature, red in tooth and claw" spread like a dark cloud over civilization and may even have led to the unprecedented savagery of the great world wars - "survival of the fittest" was a perfect slogan, a powerful motivation for Nazism. But Darwin became the very symbol of a NEW SCIENCE - devoid of any spiritual influence that even Newton had upheld.

And many historians have ascertained that Lincoln freed the slaves, not so much for racial equality, but rather to incapacitate the economy of the Southern States, thus assuring the triumph of the TECHNOLOGICAL culture of the Northern States. His racial stance was always "free but separate" - Lincoln never espoused integration, despite the great public misconception of the Emancipation Proclamation.

I do not agree with Darwin. If we evolved, I feel we had as we do now human intervention, manipulation of genetics. That, I cannot call evolution....not natural evolution.......

Lincoln, I have read.....freed the slaves so that they could be returned from whence the came......

It is too bad that history is so marred from reality.......tomorrow's myth's to be deciphered by future historians.....
 

Opal

Premium Member
All ages will have and have had their atrocities and ecstasies .......positive and negative.......yin and yang......masculine and feminine......
 

Gemini888

Well-known member
David......

What of the ugliness of Capricorn....what do you see?
I'm waiting for his in-depth explanation too. But from what I gathered up to now, he thinks Cap Age is a materialistic era. Oppression, power issue, depression... Cap Age also emphasizes the power of Saturn, which to him is the real delusion, the delusion of order.
 

david starling

Well-known member
The Ages are the result of Earth's astrological effect on our Charts. The transit of the Age-indicator is due to Earth's wobble as it rotates, and the locating point is determined using Earth's relationship to the Sun.

For the sidereal Ages we've been discussing, we're using the point marked by the Sun at the beginning of Spring in the Northern hemisphere, when the Sun reaches the Earth's Equatorial plane. This point transits the zodiac at the current rate of 1 degree every 71.6 years, and takes 2148 to move 30 degrees, from one Sign-boundary to the next.

The catch is, where exactly ARE the sidereal Sign-boundaries? Even a 1 degree difference in Sign-boundary location causes a nearly 72 year's difference in when the transiting Age-indicator reaches it, signaling the beginning of a new Age. What's confusing is, the sidereal Sign locations are being set according to each individual astrologer's personal opinion, resulting in a difference in Age-starts of as much as 400+ years!
 
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david starling

Well-known member
David......

What of the ugliness of Capricorn....what do you see?

If you mean the ugly side of the TROPICAL Age of Capricorn, just take a look around. The Tropical Aquarian Age hasn't begun yet. Getting close though. Like the song says, "....the mind's true liberation...."
Helluva long dawning though! :sad:
 
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Opal

Premium Member
If you mean the ugly side of the TROPICAL Age of Capricorn, just take a look around. The Tropical Aquarian Age hasn't begun yet. Getting close though. Like the song says, "....the mind's true liberation...."
Helluva long dawning though! :sad:

For the Tropical age of Capricorn to have begun.......then we have exited the tropical age of Aquarius.......the dawning will be an extremely long wait.......
 

david starling

Well-known member
For the Tropical age of Capricorn to have begun.......then we have exited the tropical age of Aquarius.......the dawning will be an extremely long wait.......

That's the sidereal Age of Cap. The tropical Ages have direct motion, whereby the Age of Aqua follows the Age of Capricorn.
 

david starling

Well-known member
The sidereal Age of Pisces, with Neptune as Domicile-ruler, has accompanied the somewhat shorter tropical Age of Capricorn since it began c.400 A D., by nearly everyone's reckoning. Neptune as spiritual ruler, Saturn as mundane ruler.
 

david starling

Well-known member
The two Aquarian Ages will be occurring at once, under Uranian rulership. Nice synchronicity for the transition out of the Kali Yuga.
 
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Opal

Premium Member
I'm waiting for his in-depth explanation too. But from what I gathered up to now, he thinks Cap Age is a materialistic era. Oppression, power issue, depression... Cap Age also emphasizes the power of Saturn, which to him is the real delusion, the delusion of order.

Hey.....

What are your thoughts on the Ages, do you feel we are sidereally in Pisces or Aquarius?
 

david starling

Well-known member
The Ages are the result of Earth's astrological effect on our Charts. The transit of the Age-indicator is due to Earth's wobble as it rotates, and the locating point is determined using Earth's relationship to the Sun.

For the sidereal Ages we've been discussing, we're using the point marked by the Sun at the beginning of Spring in the Northern hemisphere, when the Sun reaches the Earth's Equatorial plane. This point transits the zodiac at the current rate of 1 degree every 71.6 years, and takes 2148 to move 30 degrees, from one Sign-boundary to the next.

The catch is, where exactly ARE the sidereal Sign-boundaries? Even a 1 degree difference in Sign-boundary location causes a nearly 72 year's difference in when the transiting Age-indicator reaches it, signaling the beginning of a new Age. What's confusing is, the sidereal Sign locations are being set according to each individual astrologer's personal opinion, resulting in a difference in Age-starts of as much as 400+ years!


Any comment concerning this post, Opal? Especially the first paragraph.
 
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