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Houses & cusps For discussions on houses and house cusps (i.e. planets on angles, house stelliums and so on)


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  #26  
Unread 12-22-2011, 11:30 PM
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Re: Which house system is right for you? Any precise way to "know"?

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Fixt that for ya.

You can't be sure frag, your Mars is in Cancer... you can't judge your ascendant based on Cancer traits alone...
WHAT?
I am not driven for recognition, I hate beeing in the center of attention, I don't like to be dramatic with other, I have a pretty average self-esteem, People would say i am very insecure, I do see myself as more introverted, ...

NO WAY LEO ASC!

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Unread 12-22-2011, 11:33 PM
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Re: Which house system is right for you? Any precise way to "know"?

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WHAT?
I am not driven for recognition Libra, I hate beeing in the center of attention Libra, I don't like to be dramatic with other Libra, I have a pretty average self-esteem Libra, People would say i am very insecure Libra, I do see myself as more introverted Mars is in Cancer[/COLOR], ...
Whatchu talkin bout.
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  #28  
Unread 12-22-2011, 11:35 PM
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Re: Which house system is right for you? Any precise way to "know"?

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Whatchu talkin bout.
Still no proves of leo asc
Cause it doens't.

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Unread 12-22-2011, 11:47 PM
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Re: Which house system is right for you? Any precise way to "know"?

I'm supposed to prove to you that you have a Leo ascendant? How? Am I supposed to describe your personality for you?
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  #30  
Unread 12-23-2011, 12:08 AM
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Re: Which house system is right for you? Any precise way to "know"?

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I'm supposed to prove to you that you have a Leo ascendant? How? Am I supposed to describe your personality for you?
Who said that? Not me for sure...
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  #31  
Unread 12-23-2011, 12:35 AM
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Re: Which house system is right for you? Any precise way to "know"?

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This is a generic question about "knowing" which house system one should use for one's chart.

I know that a lot of what goes into determining this is the feeling of which system "fits" - i.e. are you more of a 1st house sun than a 2nd house sun etc.

But is there a more accurate way to "know" which system to use? I mean, to my ignorant mind, since much of astrology is based on precision (time of birth etc and degrees) it seems only logical that one house system is "correct" and the other "incorrect" for a particular person's chart, no?

So, is there a way to tell?
the only way to tell is to use say Equal and Placidus charts and plot the transits to see which is more viable. This takes experience and know how and strong knowledge of astrological principles....The house rulers are so important and it must vexacious to not know which method fits you. For me it makes little difference as it happens.
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  #32  
Unread 12-23-2011, 03:26 AM
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Re: Which house system is right for you? Any precise way to "know"?

Great question! I am still trying to figure this one out. I have to admit that Placidus really resonates with me because it puts my Sun in the 10th. Whole signs has it in the 11th, which makes no sense at all for me. I've found that my feelings about the Sun and Venus placements are what really matter (and Mars to a certain extent). The energy of the other planets are just too complex/subtle for me to make an attempt and fingering it's placement. But I KNOW that my Sun is in the 10th and My Venus is in the 9th, therefore I go with Placidus.

Also, I don't believe in following something simply because it's "easy" (like whole signs or equal house). Astrology is far from easy...so I expect the system to be a little complicated. Just my opinion.
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  #33  
Unread 12-23-2011, 03:34 AM
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Re: Which house system is right for you? Any precise way to "know"?

The Sun in the 11th is stronger than in the 10th. The Sun's natural House is in the 11th. Also, don't go with feelings too much. Feelings are required to ask questions seeing as people without feelings (aka psychopaths) don't ask any, but feelings should not be the answers to those very questions. That's answering the question with the question.

Last edited by Rebel Uranian; 12-23-2011 at 03:37 AM.
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  #34  
Unread 12-23-2011, 03:54 AM
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Re: Which house system is right for you? Any precise way to "know"?

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Originally Posted by Claire19 View Post
the only way to tell is to use say Equal and Placidus charts and plot the transits to see which is more viable. This takes experience and know how and strong knowledge of astrological principles....The house rulers are so important and it must vexacious to not know which method fits you. For me it makes little difference as it happens.
I agree completely. I think this is the best way.

I'm slightly against picking and choosing...I've seen sometimes people picking and choosing with the greatest of idealism...it's not a shop, you can't pick and choose your favourite...friends stun me with their comments about my personality - reading your own natal chart you think you know what the world sees, but no...nobody better than other people to give some insight, not just self-analysis...I don't trust it for about 50 reasons. Staying on topic, transits, transits, transits. I've been doing this and I'm happy. I do research about different house systems to rely on my own judgement than just other's but that may be just me.
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Unread 12-23-2011, 03:57 AM
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Re: Which house system is right for you? Any precise way to "know"?

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The Sun in the 11th is stronger than in the 10th. The Sun's natural House is in the 11th. Also, don't go with feelings too much. Feelings are required to ask questions seeing as people without feelings (aka psychopaths) don't ask any, but feelings should not be the answers to those very questions. That's answering the question with the question.
I mean this from an astro point of view, not personally, but in WHAT universe is Sun in the 11th stronger than the 10th? 10 is angular...there is a whole system behind it that I believe is treasured as much by ancients and modern astrologers...angular, angular, angular. Angular is loud, BOOM action...10th is also the highest house...it's what the world sees, MC and everything...really so much ancient work thrown to the side their because of Aqua...for what.

Never in any system I've read -yet, bunnies could fly- old new or futuristic has anything in a succedent or cadent house been stronger than a planet in an angular house as a general rule. What in the world. Also, like dignity, it's power not necessarily beneficial.

(I'm beating myself up for this comment, I'm keen to stay on topic, I see the rules allow a little diversion, I'll keep it at this comment only and stick to the thread at hand)

Last edited by byjove; 12-23-2011 at 04:10 AM.
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  #36  
Unread 12-23-2011, 04:04 AM
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Re: Which house system is right for you? Any precise way to "know"?

Read my post about Chaldean order through houses and Joys
Does having Jupiter in 1st house make you lucky?
Accidental dignity Wikipedia/Skyscript

This Universe.
The MC is not always in the 10th in all house systems.

Last edited by Rebel Uranian; 12-23-2011 at 04:10 AM.
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  #37  
Unread 12-23-2011, 04:18 AM
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Re: Which house system is right for you? Any precise way to "know"?

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The Sun in the 11th is stronger than in the 10th. The Sun's natural House is in the 11th. Also, don't go with feelings too much. Feelings are required to ask questions seeing as people without feelings (aka psychopaths) don't ask any, but feelings should not be the answers to those very questions. That's answering the question with the question.

I thought the Sun ruled the 5th, naturally?
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  #38  
Unread 12-23-2011, 04:58 AM
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Re: Which house system is right for you? Any precise way to "know"?

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Hi again. I am happy this is generating some interest. First i'd like to say that this is an Astrocalc option, suggesting that others think the same way. I agree with idea and use it, and in my mind it has become DEOSIL. Yes the 1st house by this system is where the planets move into after rising and the meaning is the same as always for the 1st House, being somewhat similar to Aries. After all Aries is the 1st Sign of Spring(Northern Hemisphere- things are different in the Southern Hemisphere but that's a whole other topic) when the sun is gaining in strength and daylength is increasing. Likewise the 1st part of the day after DAWN is also when the sun is gaining in strength and should equate to Aries. The sun reaches peak strength at the Summer Solstice (equivalent to NOON) after which it begins to weaken so the Houses after Noon(4,5 and 6) when the sun is weakening should be equivalent to Summer; Cancer, Leo, Gemini.
Hi thank you for suggesting this. This has been EXACTLY what I've been thinking about lately. I'm glad to see others are doing this.

It seems completely strange to me that astrologers place the houses going counter clockwise from 1st to 12th rather than clockwise. It makes more sense to me to have the early hours of the day go from 1st house -> 2nd house similar to the way the seasons travel from Aries -> Taurus. The high noon midday full sun should be on the 4th house, as the Summer Solstice is at the beginning of Cancer ... and the sunset should set in the 7th house.

This makes much more sense to me.
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  #39  
Unread 12-23-2011, 05:00 AM
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Re: Which house system is right for you? Any precise way to "know"?

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I thought the Sun ruled the 5th, naturally?
The Sun is the domicile ruler of Leo - the idea of the Sun being the 'natural' ruler of the 5th is a modern astrological theory
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  #40  
Unread 12-23-2011, 12:10 PM
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Re: Which house system is right for you? Any precise way to "know"?

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Hi thank you for suggesting this. This has been EXACTLY what I've been thinking about lately. I'm glad to see others are doing this.

It seems completely strange to me that astrologers place the houses going counter clockwise from 1st to 12th rather than clockwise. It makes more sense to me to have the early hours of the day go from 1st house -> 2nd house similar to the way the seasons travel from Aries -> Taurus. The high noon midday full sun should be on the 4th house, as the Summer Solstice is at the beginning of Cancer ... and the sunset should set in the 7th house.

This makes much more sense to me.
Hi there and thanks for your reply. I am glad I am not the only one who thinks this way. From my own perspective I can say that in the 'Deosil' system I have sun in 11th not 2nd as almost all others would say. I honestly feel drawn much more to 11th house(I would include Astrology here and various groups) things than 2nd(such as having money and material possessions). Viva radical thinkers. Sometime I might start a thread on how Southern Hemisphere astrology is different, including the Age of Leo.
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  #41  
Unread 12-23-2011, 12:16 PM
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Re: Which house system is right for you? Any precise way to "know"?

It doesn't make more sense to me to have the houses go clockwise and think this is just experiemental. You simply cannot change your natal chart, your blueprint of who you are and then change the house meanings and you will/should/will not be able to *see yourself* with planets in different houses...
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  #42  
Unread 12-23-2011, 01:06 PM
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Re: Which house system is right for you? Any precise way to "know"?

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It doesn't make more sense to me to have the houses go clockwise and think this is just experiemental. You simply cannot change your natal chart, your blueprint of who you are and then change the house meanings and you will/should/will not be able to *see yourself* with planets in different houses...
EVERYTHING is experimental to begin with including EVERY house system currently in use.
I have NOT changed my natal chart or house meanings. Please read my post properly.
My chart is NOT the blueprint of who I AM. It is only a guide. The map is not the territory. If you don't like something new you don't need to use it.
I have the right to think and question and if I find something new that makes more sense to me than something old I will use it. Change is the only permanent thing in life.
Everyone is welcome to make up their own mind.
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  #43  
Unread 12-26-2011, 11:12 PM
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Re: Which house system is right for you? Any precise way to "know"?

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Originally Posted by Quicksilver82 View Post
Great question! I am still trying to figure this one out. I have to admit that Placidus really resonates with me because it puts my Sun in the 10th. Whole signs has it in the 11th, which makes no sense at all for me. I've found that my feelings about the Sun and Venus placements are what really matter (and Mars to a certain extent). The energy of the other planets are just too complex/subtle for me to make an attempt and fingering it's placement. But I KNOW that my Sun is in the 10th and My Venus is in the 9th, therefore I go with Placidus.

Also, I don't believe in following something simply because it's "easy" (like whole signs or equal house). Astrology is far from easy...so I expect the system to be a little complicated. Just my opinion.
Glad this has generated a discussion

I agree, I'm always a little puzzled at some people's approach of "opting" for the house system they find "easier", "cleaner", but that in actual fact be totally inaccurate!

I personally feel that Placidus fits for me and my natal chart, especially in so far as my sun's house placement and also my stellium. I am in no way shape or form a 2nd house sun..

But it's neat to know that one could plot transits to determine accuracy, I'd never thought of that.
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  #44  
Unread 12-27-2011, 12:02 AM
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Re: Which house system is right for you? Any precise way to "know"?

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Glad this has generated a discussion

I agree, I'm always a little puzzled at some people's approach of "opting" for the house system they find "easier", "cleaner", but that in actual fact be totally inaccurate!

I personally feel that Placidus fits for me and my natal chart, especially in so far as my sun's house placement and also my stellium. I am in no way shape or form a 2nd house sun..

But it's neat to know that one could plot transits to determine accuracy, I'd never thought of that.
I feel exactly the same, there is NO way placidus fits me by moving my taurus stellium from 4th to 2nd house - *two full houses***

So it Equal house for me - always. You just have to see which house system puts the planets in the correct houses for YOU....
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  #45  
Unread 12-27-2011, 12:25 AM
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Re: Which house system is right for you? Any precise way to "know"?

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You just have to see which house system puts the planets in the correct houses for YOU....
No. One house system is right and every other house system is wrong. There is nothing personal in it.
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  #46  
Unread 12-27-2011, 12:52 AM
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Re: Which house system is right for you? Any precise way to "know"?

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No. One house system is right and every other house system is wrong. There is nothing personal in it.
Really??? considering there is *no way* you can prove or disprove, was there a point in you contributing to this thread??
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  #47  
Unread 12-27-2011, 01:06 AM
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Re: Which house system is right for you? Any precise way to "know"?

There is a way to prove or disprove, just no one has figured it out yet.
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Unread 12-27-2011, 01:32 AM
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Re: Which house system is right for you? Any precise way to "know"?

I would use the whole house system and the rule that if a planet is 2 degrees away from the cusp accept that its energies will be felt in the next house!
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Unread 12-27-2011, 03:02 AM
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Re: Which house system is right for you? Any precise way to "know"?

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I would use the whole house system and the rule that if a planet is 2 degrees away from the cusp accept that its energies will be felt in the next house!
Thanks for that retinoid, and also here's some useful information from dr. farr regarding the correct use of whole sign houses. Not everyone is aware of the fact that whole sign houses incorporate an additional factor relating to the Ascendant degree that when taken on board and utilised when interpetating or delineating an astrological chart means that whole sign houses are being used as originally intended
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Originally Posted by dr. farr
Cusps: Today (and for the past thousand years or so) we define cusps as "borders" (coasts),

but that is not the original meaning of the word "cusp": it means "point" such as cuspal teeth (bicuspids) and the point of a sword

- so originally the term cusp meant the "point" of something, and in astrology originally the "cusp" of the house meant its "point";

now, when quadrant systems were developed, this "point" of the house came to mean its "beginning", which later came to mean its "border", ie, the "border" between one house and the other.

And later astrology also began using these "borders" (cusps) for various prognostic applications (Charles Carter came to believe that, for timing of events, the "cusps" of the Campanus house system gave the best results, among the various quadrant house systems)

But now notice this: in whole sign the cusps are NOT the 0 degree "borders" of sign/houses at all, and never were so regarded!

In whole sign, the "cusp" retained its original meaning, not as a "border" but rather as A POINT

-and that POINT (cusp) for EACH house, was the sensitive point of that house, viz, the sensitive point in whole sign houses - each house - that is the "cusp" of each house - is a direct projection from the ascending degree.

Example:
-the ascending degree of a chart is 18 Taurus: what are the house cusps (sensitive points, original meaning of the word "cusp") in the whole sign houses of this chart?
Cusp of 1st house = 18 Taurus
Cusp of 2nd house = 18 Gemini
Cusp of 3rd house = 18 Cancer
Cusp of 4th house = 18 Leo
Cusp of 5th house = 18 Virgo
Cusp of 6th house = 18 Libra
Cusp of 7th house = 18 Scorpio
Cusp of 8th house = 18 Sagittarius
Cusp of 9th house = 18 Capricorn
Cusp of 10th house = 18 Aquarius
Cusp of 11th house = 18 Pisces
Cusp of 12th house = 18 Aries

Now it is these "cusps" (sensitive degrees, original meaning of the word "cusp" as a "point") that are (and were) used for progressions, timing of events, etc, and the fact is that they work for these purposes, quite well (in expert hands)

Whole sign does not use the BORDERS between houses (always 0 degree of any sign) for anything,

but it DOES use "cusps" (points in the house, projected from the exact ascending degree) for timing (and other) delineative purposes.


Whole sign suddenly vanished (both in the West and in Vedic astrology) during the same period of time - ie, late 8th to early 9th century - this sudden disappearance suggests a sudden turn in astrological thinking and practices, rather than a gradual supplanting of a less effective traditional method (whole sign) by a new and more effective method (rheotrius/alchabitius in the West, and the closely related to whole sign Equal house, in Vedic astrology)

For me, there is only 1 reason I switched to whole sign - it worked better (FOR ME)

I could care less if it were the oldest house system (which it is) or whether it was invented by Badda Bing at Barney's Beanery in Bayonne, 10 years ago:
only things I consider are:
-does it seem to make sense?
-does it "taste good" to me (ie, does it "feel right" to me)
-and, if yes to the above, does it work (producing delineations and predicitions) better than what I have previously been doing?

Well, whole sign did all that, for me, so I switched; but I am not going to try to convince anyone of anything about it, except for beginners - to you who might just be starting out, I would say: try whole sign first, and see how well it might work for you...
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  #50  
Unread 12-27-2011, 03:21 AM
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Re: Which house system is right for you? Any precise way to "know"?

I was doing some research into Gauquelin's work when I stumbled upon this very interesting blog post that is relevant to much of the conversation in this thread. Enjoy!

http://hermeticum.wordpress.com/2010...unk-astrology/
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