The Sun in Dignity or Debility

This series of threads was created with the intention of discussing the influence of planetary dignity and debility in natal astrology. Each planet has been designated its own thread and a quick reference sheet of this planet's dignity and debility has been provided.

Dignity:

• The Sun exerts rulership over Leo
• The Sun is exalted in Aries

Debility:

• The Sun is in its detriment in Aquarius
• The Sun is in its fall in Libra

Arian Maverick

In general the Sun Sign is seen as one of the main players in the Natal chart - it's a defining aspect of the person. If this is the case, we have a lot of people who are either blessed or cursed because of their natal sun placement. It seems that the Leos are particularly lucky because the defining planet in the chart is in dignity, while the natives with the Sun in Aquarius are particularly unlucky because of the detriment.

None of the other planets (other than maybe the Moon for women) are viewed as this significant, Sun/Moon/Asc being the major players ...

What do you think would be the advantage of having an Aquarius or Libra Sun? Or should we rather all be trying to give birth when the Sun is in Leo or Aries?

Well,this thread was started a loooooooooong time ago,but still,I couldn't resist answering(yes,I have nothing to do,so I'm just hanging around here ).

I don't understand why the Sun is in its detriment in Aquarius(I mean,I understand why-I have a book that explains it).It simply doesn't make much sense to me.I know the Sun represents the Ego,the vital force,and Aquarius is such an individualist sign.I believe the Sun is in it's weakest expression in Pisces.Pisces is very connected to transcendent things,the soul,faith,religion,charity and all that.I'm a Piscean myself,although my Moon/Mercury/Venus in Aries help balancing the Sun,and all the Pisceans I know are quite dependable on other people and poor out all their hearts when it comes to helping others(I think i used the wrong words,hope you can understand it anyway ).Piscean always seem to know what others want,what others feel and what others need,but never know what they want,what they feel or what they need.From all the twelve zodiac signs,I'd say Pisces is the one that's less connected with their Ego.Like I said before,Aquarius is very individualist and independent,loving humanity and all kinds of social gatherings but with a strong need for their personal space and respect for their beliefs and ideas.I don't personaly think the Sun is weak in Aquarius.Although,if the Sun was in fall in Pisces,that means it would also be exalted in Virgo,and that doesn't make any sense to me at all lool.

I hope somebody explains this too because it's an interesting question!

I always assumed the Sun was weak in Aquarius because of it's tendancy to put the group interests ahead of its own. Aquarius will sacrifice it's own needs and wishes, to improve things for the group.

As an Aquarian, I have often seen myself doing this wether the group be my work colleages, class mates, family, friends, etc. I will not even accept praise or recognition for my achievements, because Aquarius does not want to stand out from the group - it wants to be a part of the group. Aquarius did not succeed, the group did! This kind of energy is very hard for the Sun to cope with.

I hope I have helped in even a little way. I'm very much a beginner here but I liked to chime in.

Lissa said:

I don't understand why the Sun is in its detriment in Aquarius(I mean,I understand why-I have a book that explains it).It simply doesn't make much sense to me.I know the Sun represents the Ego,the vital force,and Aquarius is such an individualist sign.I believe the Sun is in it's weakest expression in Pisces.

From all the twelve zodiac signs,I'd say Pisces is the one that's less connected with their Ego.

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I think you need to look at motive. Aquarius represents alturistic behavior. Pisces represents a masochistic behavior. A Pisces influence "enjoys" the benifit of being "crucified".

I have both stong Aquarius planets in the first AND a strong stellum in the 12th house. There is a difference, sometimes I do things because it is the right thing to do, other times I get to play the Martyr. :53:

TK

What are the astrological definitions of detriment, and malevolence?

What I have read about such terms is that they confer something bad, negative, unfavourable and make life more challenging.

Having my sun sign in detriment, however, I believe these associations are furtherest from the truth.

Hasn't astrology evolved to recognize more accurate terms and meanings for these types of placements?

Where does this sort of classification originate from?

Here is one interpretation on Dignities and Debilities by Robert Hand:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Dignities and Debilities[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The following is an application of some of the principles that I have been talking about. These concepts were first presented to me and others by Tim Smith in a lecture in which he presented the ideas of his teacher, the late Anthony Damiani. As presented, they are a combination of Damiani and Smith with some additions of my own.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In most, but not all, astrological signs, there are four planets with a significant relationship to the sign. There is the sign ruler, as in “Mars rules Aries,” the exaltation ruler as in “the Sun is exalted in Aries,” the planet in detriment as in “Aries is the detriment of Venus,” and the planet in fall as in “Saturn is in fall in Aries.” Two of these planets are “dignified” or made better in some way, but two are “debilitated” or made weaker in some way.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Damiani came to the conclusion that these were related to the four worlds in some way. He suggested that Mars represents the aspect of Aries as Oneness, the Sun as Nous or consciousness, Venus as Soul and Saturn as the physical universe, or Cosmos. In traditional occult philosophy, which is basically Neoplatonic, the two higher worlds partake more of perfection, the two lower worlds are more susceptible to corruption, especially Cosmos. But all four are good and in some way divine, even though we do not handle them properly. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Inverted Dignities[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The idea is quite simple. Detriment and fall do not really weaken a planet. It is more our problem. We are more creative with these planets when we are being conscious beings and less creative when we are less conscious. The planet in fact is actually dignified. It is ourselves that create the debility. This leads to a simple idea. Is there some way in which we can change our orientation so that “weaknesses” become strengths? I began to look at this and found not only that it is possible, but I had actually been seeing it in my practice without realizing it.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Let me take Mercury as an example. I have Mercury in Sagittarius, which is its detriment. This is supposed to make my Mercury weak, in theory. Yet here I am, making a living writing, lecturing and doing astrology which is traditionally a Mercurial activity. But I do have some traditional detrimented Mercury problems. My handwriting is terrible, my level of manual and digital dexterity is quite low (according to tests) and I have always had some problems keeping things organized. What is going on here?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The answer seems to be that my Mercury effects divide along the lines of whether or not what I am doing requires my being fully present and conscious. When I am being conscious and intentional, everything Mercurial not only works, but works very well. I am actually known for doing things that are very Mercurial indeed. And when I am not being conscious, the sloppier effects of Mercury in Sagittarius become evident. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And then there is Mercury in Pisces, which is in both its detriment and fall. I have seen many people with that placement who work well with numbers, languages, philosophy, editing and all manner of things that require a strong Mercury. I have also seen people with this placement who have serious trouble communicating and whose thinking seems very fuzzy. Usually, even with these, I have found that their logic only seems fuzzy. There is usually something very potent about it once one understands it. I believe that this is the same effect that I have noted with Mercury in Sagittarius.[/FONT]

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http://www.stariq.com/Main/Articles/P0001767.HTM

The Sun enters Libra at the Autumn equinox, when the nights begin to draw in and the power of the light continues to diminish into Winter, so this is why the Sun is in fall in Libra, as it is literally 'falling'. This is why Americans call it 'Fall'.

In Aries on the other hand, at the vernal equinox, the Sun is exalted, as it triumphantly and gloriously returns to shine on ever stronger as the days proceed into Summer.

In Aquarius, the Sun is in the depths of Winter, so it would seem natural that the fiery Sun is at it's weakest at this time.

In Leo, on the other hand, it is the height of Summer, where the Sun revels in it's ability to express it's natural function of warming and illuminating.

I do actually wonder why the Sun does not experience it's detriment in Capricorn, and it's domicile in Cancer, which are the Winter and Summer ingresses, yet the Sun is peregrine in these signs. I'll have to have a think about this one.

Perhaps it is due to what has been mentioned before, that the Sun is so focused upon individuality and personal initiative, whereas Aquarius is all for group and community, making the Sun incongenial in this sign in terms of it's seasonal power, but also in regard to the somewhat incompatible qualities of planet and sign.

What do you think would be the advantage of having an Aquarius or Libra Sun?

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If the Aquarius Sun is disposited by a well dignified Saturn, or a Libra Sun by a well dignified Venus, or mutual reception between the Sun and a well dignified planet, or if the Sun is aspected by well dignified benefics, then these might be some example's of the fall or detriment of the Sun being alleviated.

Perhaps debilitated Suns are an advantage in those circumstances in life where it is not appropriate to be individualist or self-gratifying, something our Aries and Leo folk might find rather more challenging. Libra must be impartial and diplomatic, the ego must get out of the way in order to gain a balanced perspective. Aquarius must put aside one's own personal initiatives for the good of the collective.

My sun is in Virgo. So it's 'debilitated'. However it's in the first house.
And it has the following aspects:
Sun Sextile Moon 1°41'A
Sun Conjunct Mercury 8°19'A
Sun Square Moon's North Node 2°31'A
Sun Conjunct Ascendant 5°38'A
Sun Square Midheaven 3°31'A

So overall I can say it's dignified by the house placement and aspects?