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  #1  
Unread 07-09-2018, 07:16 PM
LostinPhilly LostinPhilly is offline
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Will I find a better position by year end?

Hi all,

I'm seeking advice about my current situation at work. Basically:

I work in finance for a large corporation. I started two years ago on a market which had a huge turnover due to a demanding offshore manager & lack of language skills. The position was vacant for a year straight, people would quit afer 3 months.

I came in with both the language skills & the qualifications. This has allowed me to turn this sinking market into one of the most stable ones, as now other markets are suffering from staff challenges. In these past two years, I have received very good feedback both from the offshore manager as well as clients, people in higher management & higher ups in sales. Everyone knows I'm overqualified for position already.

- Despite these good reviews, my newly appointed manager (who happens to be my age) refuses to submit my application for a promotion or any incentive, as I am not "extroverted" enough (she said I should go for drinks with people from work afterwards, it'd be good for me). I'm a very busy person, work on my own, I do not have the time to walk around the office to chat though sometimes I do to get my mind off things. Every 1-1 is just a critique about me not being extroverted, no mention of my positive feedbacks.

Yet, the following is happening:

1. About a month ago or so, I was advised that during the summer break, I would handle a couple of massive clients during the absence of my teammates offshore. Therefore, this is a huge project which is going to entail a lot of work on top of the work for my regular clients (i.e: 75% of the portfolio). This project requires a month training, with weekly calls ...

2. Another colleague of mine who works in a different market completely will be off during the same period as my offshore colleagues (they don't even report to the same people). Initially 6 months ago, my direct manager chose to initially cover for her despite the lack of language skills. Today, whilst she's away on holidays, her own manager asked me to cover instead as I have the language skills. I have zero training/knowledge on this market.

So basically, on top of my own work which caused them great recognition, but no reward for me, I have to undertake this massive project for my offshore colleagues (ok by me, since we work on the same team) and the work of another colleague who's not even in my team?

I am already reaching my limit. I don't have time for lunch and have to stay late.

What I am getting out of this except from more work? No promotion, no pay raise and a manager who belittles me constantly. I want to say no to covering

Does it look like I will find a better position (internally or exterally) by the end of the year?



Last edited by LostinPhilly; 07-10-2018 at 05:44 PM.
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Unread 07-09-2018, 09:32 PM
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Re: Will I find a better position by year end?

I just want to make sure you posted the right chart for your question. Your OP was about your prospects for a job move, but the question on your chart is "Why this sudden change in attitude?"
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Unread 07-09-2018, 09:51 PM
LostinPhilly LostinPhilly is offline
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Re: Will I find a better position by year end?

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
I just want to make sure you posted the right chart for your question. Your OP was about your prospects for a job move, but the question on your chart is "Why this sudden change in attitude?"
Oh sorry! Wrong chart indeed!
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Unread 07-10-2018, 05:44 PM
LostinPhilly LostinPhilly is offline
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Re: Will I find a better position by year end?

Chart reuploaded.
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Unread 07-10-2018, 09:38 PM
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Re: Will I find a better position by year end?

I don't think this chart is giving you much encouragement, with the ruler of your career/job in the 8th house, and not getting any help from Jupiter (you, retrograde) or the moon. There's a small exchange of dignity, but not heaps. Saturn in the first is one of those placements suggesting the matter at hand won't go as you hoped.

However, Venus is poised to change signs, which might bring some new developments. As ruler of the 10th, Venus would also be your supervisor, so just possibly she would have a change of heart or move herself.

While I think your supervisor's intent in asking you to "go for drinks" with colleagues was good, I thought it was super unprofessional. I've known people who don't drink for religious and health reasons, or deep-seated aversions for personal reasons (like undisclosed bad experiences with their or another person's drinking.) Some of these people would be OK drinking 7-Up at a bar, but others wouldn't wouldn't set foot inside a pub setting.

You know your company culture and I don't, but possibly it would be helpful if you calmly itemized your recent contributions and skills in a memo cc. to your supervisor and her supervisor, saying that you hope they will be acknowledged in future promotion or pay raise considerations.

In the meantime, there is an on-line literature on how to "manage up" with a difficult boss. Might be worth a perusal. When you do apply for other jobs, a prospective employer might well consult with your current manager, so it's a good idea to consider how best to manage her.
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Unread 07-10-2018, 10:27 PM
LostinPhilly LostinPhilly is offline
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Re: Will I find a better position by year end?

Thank you very much waybread.

Does this chart show any chance of a possible move/job offer internally? I mainly posted this thread about external positions, but I could consider an internal position.

I do not drink, so I do not see the point in going out for drinks. I do not like to mingle too much with colleagues outside of work as I have other commitments and I think it opens door to too many issues. Nowhere is it indicated in my job spec that I need to mingle with colleagues to get promoted. Besides, she is the type to get blacked out during office functions.

As far as I am aware, the fact that I do not mingle with coworkers after work does not prevent me to perform my duties. I often travel to the overseas location I work for, and nobody mingles with anybody after work over there. They don't even have lunch together.

I already have references from another manager I also more or less report to within the bank, so I will give those contacts instead.

I honestly do not want to wait until the next round of promotions in March. This is a dead end.

Last edited by LostinPhilly; 07-10-2018 at 10:38 PM.
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Unread 07-10-2018, 10:35 PM
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Re: Will I find a better position by year end?

I don't see a strong indication, either way (internal vs. new employer.) I think the right (and probably company policy) is on your side, but not this horoscope.

Of course others here may have a more optimistic interpretation.
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Unread 07-10-2018, 10:45 PM
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Re: Will I find a better position by year end?

It does not look too promising to me.
You as Jup are retrograde, have no essential dignity, so remain in still not a strong position.
Internally, we would look the the ruler of the 10th, Venus, which is about to change signs. But into its fall. That does not make potential for the current workplace/boss look encouraging.
Externally, or the NEXT job, might be signified by next house after the 10th, or the ruler of the 11th, Mars. Mars likes you/jup because you are in the sign Mars rules. But Mars is retrograde, so again, probably not able to make a strong offering. And most importantly, I think, is that Mars and Jup do not aspect for a very long time, until they both change signs. And then they square. It just feels long and drawn out without a satisfactory conclusion.

Moon/you do trine Mars/another job in 8 units.
But I would be wary based on what I have described between Mars and Jupiter, above.

I am sorry I don't see better prospects in the chart. Perhaps there is some really important lesson for you to learn about yourself that this job from hell is here to help you with? I don't know. I do know I've had a job from hell in my time, and so I am truly sorry for all the suffering. There was a lesson, maybe a few lessons, for me to learn, about being truthful with myself about myself. But those realizations did not come to me until late in life, and so may not for you, if this is what this is about?

But in any case, you have my sincerest sympathy about it, and I also have confidence that you will pull through this perhaps in ways that may surprise us all...?

Truly wishing you the best, LiP.
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Unread 07-10-2018, 10:45 PM
LostinPhilly LostinPhilly is offline
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Re: Will I find a better position by year end?

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
I don't see a strong indication, either way (internal vs. new employer.) I think the right (and probably company policy) is on your side, but not this horoscope.

Of course others here may have a more optimistic interpretation.
Ok, thank you very much.

We will see what happens. I just can no longer deal with a situation where I am clearly overburned & no reward/recignition is coming out of this.

No salary increase, no award, no promotion .. I'm in the same spot as when I started more than 2 years ago, except more work which is not part of my job spec is being dumped on me.

Additionally, the fact that no positive feedback is being report in my 1 to 1 forms is starting to affect me greatly. I'm working towards nothing.

Example of 1-1 forms:
April:
"Manager's comments: X (colleague) is leaving the company and I am concerned that Z (me) will isolate herself, to the point where she feels she cannot talk to anyone on the floor".

I know plenty of people on the floor. Why is she making me look co-dependent on another coworker? I work on my own for heaven's sake.

Reading this from a third party lense, it is not a positive review at all.

January:
I told her I had family issues, so I was not as chippy as usual.
Her comments on my form:
"Her lack of entusiasm to perform her duties blah blah"
A supposed lack of enthusiam, which was not one. I mentioned personal issues and she turned this confidential information against me. I still was getting excellent reviews from higher management then. I just was not smiling all the time.

How can I possibly progress in such conditions? This department is a dead end. There's someone quitting every week.

I currently have Saturn transiting my 6th in my natal. Saturn return is due in January when it will be moving in my 7th. Maybe at that stage, some positive shift will happen.

Last edited by LostinPhilly; 07-10-2018 at 10:49 PM.
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Unread 07-10-2018, 10:57 PM
LostinPhilly LostinPhilly is offline
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Re: Will I find a better position by year end?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
It does not look too promising to me.
You as Jup are retrograde, have no essential dignity, so remain in still not a strong position.
Internally, we would look the the ruler of the 10th, Venus, which is about to change signs. But into its fall. That does not make potential for the current workplace/boss look encouraging.
Externally, or the NEXT job, might be signified by next house after the 10th, or the ruler of the 11th, Mars. Mars likes you/jup because you are in the sign Mars rules. But Mars is retrograde, so again, probably not able to make a strong offering. And most importantly, I think, is that Mars and Jup do not aspect for a very long time, until they both change signs. And then they square. It just feels long and drawn out without a satisfactory conclusion.

Moon/you do trine Mars/another job in 8 units.
But I would be wary based on what I have described between Mars and Jupiter, above.

I am sorry I don't see better prospects in the chart. Perhaps there is some really important lesson for you to learn about yourself that this job from hell is here to help you with? I don't know. I do know I've had a job from hell in my time, and so I am truly sorry for all the suffering. There was a lesson, maybe a few lessons, for me to learn, about being truthful with myself about myself. But those realizations did not come to me until late in life, and so may not for you, if this is what this is about?

But in any case, you have my sincerest sympathy about it, and I also have confidence that you will pull through this perhaps in ways that may surprise us all...?

Truly wishing you the best, LiP.
Thank you for the support, Ilene. Much appreciated.

Are units months in your interpretation? What is the "very long" time you are referring to? Is it more than a year?

Yes, perhaps, there's a lesson to learn. There's always a lesson to learn in every negative situation.

The situation is that I went to a great school, worked towards a selective law degree (well, 2 of them) only to wind up working for a boss from hell, not being able to utilize my credentials & being paid below market wage. I do not deserve to be treated this way at all because I know my worth and know what I can bring to a company.

Perhaps my lesson is to stand up for myself, because whilst all of this has been unreavelling at a rapid spade, I have remained quiet. I never stood up for myself or disagreed with any of them out of fear of being dismissed. I am not in touch with my family, so should something happen, I have nothing to fall back on. This is the only thing that is keeping me from truly expressing myself.

If I had a sound support system, I would have set the record straight a long time ago. My lack of support system is my weakness translating into me not being able to vocalize my disagreement with the whole situation.

In any case, even if I do not find a more suited position by December, I am planning on doing the change in early 2019 at the very latest. I am seeking to move location anyway, so it might be a bit short notice to uproot everything in December.

Last edited by LostinPhilly; 07-10-2018 at 11:01 PM.
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Unread 07-10-2018, 11:03 PM
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Re: Will I find a better position by year end?

I've no experience with timing any more than I have told you.

And so maybe you are honing in a bit more on what this circumstance may be asking of you? Possibly about taking proper care of, standing up for, yourself?

I trust you will do what you need to do and go where you need to go, LiP. I truly do.
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Unread 07-10-2018, 11:03 PM
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Re: Will I find a better position by year end?

Both interpreters mentioned Jupiter retrograde. Jupiter is actually stationing direct, as of today. When the chart was cast, it was slowing into its station. Does that affect the interpretation any?

LostinPhilly, it sounds to me like you're assuming a lot. Do you really have to take on this extra work? Have you mentioned any of your concerns about the workload itself--already having enough of a workload, not having the knowledge or training for the extra work your being asked to take--to your employer? Those are very real issues. In particular, your employer should want to know that you're not familiar with that market. You haven't mentioned communicating any of this, so I'm assuming you haven't.

Are you familiar with Ask a Manager? That seems like exactly the right place to take your job concerns.
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Unread 07-10-2018, 11:20 PM
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Re: Will I find a better position by year end?

They are aware I have no knowledge of the market. I have mentioned the workload aspe ct and they said it will be fine.

What bothers me is that they did not have a meeting with me beforehand to ask me if I'm OK with taking on more work. They called us in a meeting (me and the girl I will cover for) and said this is what is going to happen.

I will request a meeting with just the managers to make them understand the way the situation was approached was not right and to explain my concerns.


I do not want to post on Ask Manager as it's a popular website. I do no want to risk any person from work reading my post.
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Unread 07-10-2018, 11:23 PM
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Re: Will I find a better position by year end?

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Both interpreters mentioned Jupiter retrograde. Jupiter is actually stationing direct, as of today. When the chart was cast, it was slowing into its station. Does that affect the interpretation any?
Good question, Osamenor, and I am not sure. The way I interpret the actual station, be it retro or direct, is that the planet has accumulated the greatest influence from the motion on question. In this instance, I would say that the power/influence of the retrogradation is at its strongest. Likewise, when a planet stations direct, it has the greatest of power/influence connected with the meaning of direct motion.

I would be interested to hear how others may interpret station retrograde and station direct.
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Unread 07-11-2018, 01:55 AM
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Re: Will I find a better position by year end?

This chart has change written all over it. L1 turning direct, which means you'll be back on course soon. Moon just changed signs. L10 about to change signs. But you are probably right, L10 in H8, this may literally be a dead end job.

@Ilene & Osamenor

We have to look if it is 1st station (from direct to retrograde) or 2nd station (from retrograde to direct). In the old days they compared 1st station to someone lying down on his sickbed and 2nd station as getting up from his sickbed. So while a planet being stationary is always a serious accidental debility and can indicate a critical situation, 1st station would indicate hopelessness while 2nd station would indicate hopefulness. So in this case, it's a good sign.
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Unread 07-11-2018, 06:31 PM
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Re: Will I find a better position by year end?

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@Ilene & Osamenor

We have to look if it is 1st station (from direct to retrograde) or 2nd station (from retrograde to direct). In the old days they compared 1st station to someone lying down on his sickbed and 2nd station as getting up from his sickbed. So while a planet being stationary is always a serious accidental debility and can indicate a critical situation, 1st station would indicate hopelessness while 2nd station would indicate hopefulness. So in this case, it's a good sign.
Thank you for sharing this, muchacho. Very helpful.
And glad for the good sign, too.
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Unread 07-11-2018, 06:40 PM
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Re: Will I find a better position by year end?

i would not change jobs

cause venus flipping to weaker sigm
and venus rejects jup

i cant figure out if i like venus/saturn or hate it
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Unread 07-16-2018, 08:39 PM
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Re: Will I find a better position by year end?

Hi all,

Thanks for your advice.

So almost a week after the situation, no one has yet to confirm someone else will not handle this my colleague's job whilst she's away. The girl is pushing to have a training done within 3 days before she goes away on Friday. I'm too busy and quite frankly, I don't want to. More work, no recognition, no salary increase or compensation nothing, no overtime allowed.

I would be basically covering for 3 people + my own work.

I spoke to my manager abroad to tell her that whatever call she had with my local manager, clearly didn't work since nobody notified me I won't be covering for the other girl.

I am sure that if I say no to taking more work (the work of someone I don't even work with), they will use this excuse not to promote me yet again. It's basically a viscious circle.

Time to move on... I'm being treated like a slave.
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Unread 07-17-2018, 11:40 AM
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Re: Will I find a better position by year end?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LostinPhilly View Post
Hi all,

Thanks for your advice.

So almost a week after the situation, no one has yet to confirm someone else will not handle this my colleague's job whilst she's away. The girl is pushing to have a training done within 3 days before she goes away on Friday. I'm too busy and quite frankly, I don't want to. More work, no recognition, no salary increase or compensation nothing, no overtime allowed.

I would be basically covering for 3 people + my own work.

I spoke to my manager abroad to tell her that whatever call she had with my local manager, clearly didn't work since nobody notified me I won't be covering for the other girl.

I am sure that if I say no to taking more work (the work of someone I don't even work with), they will use this excuse not to promote me yet again. It's basically a viscious circle.

Time to move on... I'm being treated like a slave.
Right. Sounds like a lose-lose for you. At least you have some clarity now. That's very important. I wouldn't change jobs though right away. Take it slow and take your time to work out a plan B.
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Unread 07-17-2018, 07:47 PM
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Re: Will I find a better position by year end?

Hi all,

So today, I was convened into a meeting with my local manager & her own manager. This hour long meeting turned into an extended argument.

They basically said things in front of me & other people which they claim are fabrications by myself because they got to the ears of my manager abroad.

They claimed I am unprofessional and my performance is merely "good" (despite the various positive reviews from upper management). They said I need to think about my career at some stage, which I saw like a threat.

I had never been spoken to like that. I was literally spoken to like a piece of garbage when I attended the best law schools in their country & mine. I had work experience elsewhere, so I know what a proper company is like. The moment they got confronted with their own facts, they back-tracked and claimed I'm the liar.

Whatever job I will find, I will take. I need to get the heck out of here.

Part of me knows they have been wanting to sabotage me for a while, but didn't know how. They now want to remove my big client project I have coming up (which they have no involvment/say in) because they claim I will be under pressure. They're acting as though they're looking out for me, but they just want to sabotage me.

I'm done. I think I just needed this last push to truly make up my mind to leave. I cannot work in an environment where my professional image & ethics are being tarnished by people who cannot face their own words.
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Unread 07-17-2018, 08:05 PM
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Re: Will I find a better position by year end?

I agree wholeheartedly with your conclusions, LiP, and I am wishing you the very best in taking action to extract yourself from there. Just because you cannot find a better position does not mean you should not leave there. I know you understand this.
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