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  #51  
Unread 01-26-2019, 05:47 PM
GemwDepth GemwDepth is offline
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
The bundle represents the most intensely concentrated sort of personality, wholly focused on the self and its interests.
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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
The basic dynamic of the trine is "momentum"; things get to moving and then build on themselves. Accumulation. Ease of action. Things seem to come of themselves.
So by that definition, an opportunity in the 9th house realm came of itself. An Uranian-Saturn opportunity. This type of thing would keep repeating itself, in one’s lifetime, correct? The exact impact depends on the timing. By following that opportunity, all Ford’s persona, goals, ego, time, energy, loves were invested as a result of the leading planet.

Yet, how do we interpret the trailing planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Therese View Post
…that Uranus is intercepted (9th house cusp is in the last degree of Taurus).
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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Uranus/Neptune = 0 Leo. (?)
29 taurus is an elevated degree, empowered. However, modern astrology connotes it to permanent endings. I wish the tables were posted so I don’t have to squint. Uranus looks to be in 3* Gemini, Neptune 27* Virgo.

How do we interpret the midpoint connotation, and the 29 Taurus? Into the predominant trine.

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  #52  
Unread 01-26-2019, 06:53 PM
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

The midpoint falls at 0 Leo 17'. There is no planet there. What we have is a sign cusp. I don't know if it is significant. If it is, it's on a minor scale.

Leo has to do with creative self-expression, need for attention and acclaim, drama...and this lies at the center of self, the point of balance. It shows where and how the self can be brought into harmony, which is important to the Common signs where the trine is posited.

It is the fact that the sign's cusp is at midpoint that caught my eye.
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  #53  
Unread 01-26-2019, 07:06 PM
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

Trailing planet...what does it do?

First, my dear, tell us what a leading planet does. They must somehow work together, so understanding the function of a leading planet may lead us to an understanding of the function of a trailing planet.

A transiting planet first contacts the leading planet, then touches the other 8 planets in order, and finally the trailing planet.

Last edited by greybeard; 01-26-2019 at 07:09 PM.
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  #54  
Unread 01-26-2019, 08:24 PM
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

The leading planet “ignites” the locomotive of energies, events and focus in the individual? Using the word locomotive here as an adjective, of no relation to the pattern.

Without knowing the man, this configuration actually tells me what "ignites" this bundle are sudden conversations/ideas during exploratory activities. You can interpret and extrapolate the basic principle however many ways. Perhaps he was involved in brainstorming activities during script formation. Perhaps he meets contacts in the industry by conversations based on common, out there interests, etc.

Last edited by GemwDepth; 01-28-2019 at 05:21 PM.
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  #55  
Unread 01-26-2019, 11:33 PM
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

A knife cuts. But all of the cutting happens only at the cutting edge. The rest of the blade gives strength and form, but it does not cut. The leading (cutting) planet is the cutting edge.
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  #56  
Unread 01-26-2019, 11:41 PM
GemwDepth GemwDepth is offline
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

Are you saying this is the most effective, core competency in bundle type individuals? The secret ingredient they use to achieve most of the results?
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  #57  
Unread 01-27-2019, 05:07 AM
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

In the example


Chart we have Uranus leading (cutting), Moon disposing the chart, exalted Jupiter on the. MC, .... They all work together and all are necessary.
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  #58  
Unread 01-27-2019, 05:44 AM
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

By the knife analogy, if the "leading (cutting) planet is the cutting edge", does the trailing planet mean the point where one ought to apply pressure to utilize the cutting edge? Like the handle of the knife?

(Still a bit unclear here).
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  #59  
Unread 01-27-2019, 06:12 AM
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Smile Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

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Originally Posted by GemwDepth View Post
By the knife analogy, if the "leading (cutting) planet is the cutting edge", does the trailing planet mean the point where one ought to apply pressure to utilize the cutting edge? Like the handle of the knife?

(Still a bit unclear here).
Sounds like scissors.
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  #60  
Unread 01-27-2019, 07:58 AM
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

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How do ee interpret that
I'd say an intercepted house is hidden, in a way, and the reasons why are shown by the planet who rules the cusp. In Ford's case, Venus is in quite good condition, not wounded (not in detriment, fall, or rx, nor besieged by malefics), but she has no essential dignity. On the other hand, she's the lady of the horoscope. By ruling the ninth house, she links the affairs of the first, second and ninth. Also, the Moon is exalted in Taurus and has some say in the affairs of the house.
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  #61  
Unread 01-27-2019, 08:01 AM
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

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I wish the tables were posted so I don’t have to squint.

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Last edited by Therese; 01-27-2019 at 04:53 PM.
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  #62  
Unread 01-27-2019, 05:16 PM
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

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In the example Chart we have Uranus leading (cutting), Moon disposing the chart, exalted Jupiter on the. MC, .... They all work together and all are necessary.

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Originally Posted by GemwDepth View Post
By the knife analogy, if the "leading (cutting) planet is the cutting edge", does the trailing planet mean the point where one ought to apply pressure to utilize the cutting edge? Like the handle of the knife?

(Still a bit unclear here).

What about a sailboat? The gale kept me awake at night, that gave me the idea. Uranus could be the mast with the mainsail that captures the wind; the Moon and Jupiter the tiller/steering wheel, and Neptune the keel that gives counterbalance and prevents capsizing?


.
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  #63  
Unread 01-27-2019, 05:21 PM
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Smile Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

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Originally Posted by Therese View Post
What about a sailboat? The gale kept me awake at night, that gave me the idea. Uranus could be the mast with the mainsail that captures the wind; the Moon and Jupiter the tiller/steering wheel, and Neptune the keel that gives counterbalance and prevents capsizing?


.
Neptune the rudder, keeping it on course, directed by the Moon at the helm. Uranos is a personification of the Heavens, so navigating by the stars.

Last edited by david starling; 01-27-2019 at 05:58 PM.
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  #64  
Unread 01-27-2019, 05:55 PM
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Talking Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
The bundle represents the most intensely concentrated sort of personality, wholly focused on the self and its interests.

This pattern is recognized when, ideally, all ten planets populate less than the span of a zodiacal trine, or 120 degrees. The tighter the bundle, the more intensely the characteristics of the type are expressed.
Well, I personally have a bundle birth chart BUT I'm not "intensely concentrated" at all.

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We will use Harrison Ford as example. If Therese would be so kind as to post his chart here...? Thank you.
How you could explain that, greybeard?

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  #65  
Unread 01-27-2019, 06:08 PM
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Smile Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

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Trines normally feature both planets in the same element; that is not true here. Instead both planets are in Common signs, signs of the same quality or mode, a cross-sign trine.

The elements primarily operate subjectively and are concerned with how we perceive and process information. The qualities describe how we deal with the outer world.

The Mutable (Common) signs work by adapting the self to surrounding circumstances. In the jargon of the Freudian crowd, they are "autoplastic". Adaptability, flexibility, and accomodation are hallmarks of this quality. We might call them chameleon-like. They are not normally bound by rigid ideals, principles or values. These signs tend to take life as it comes and are not much concerned with introspection or self-evaluation. And they are dualistic. These signs are fundamentally concerned with the social milieu and establishing themselves in it, finding their proper niche; they are people people.
Great description of Mutable. Very pragmatic and "now" oriented modality.

Last edited by david starling; 01-27-2019 at 06:11 PM.
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  #66  
Unread 01-27-2019, 09:07 PM
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

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Originally Posted by Therese View Post

What about a sailboat?
The gale kept me awake at night, that gave me the idea.
Uranus could be the mast with the mainsail that captures the wind;
the Moon and Jupiter the tiller/steering wheel, and
Neptune the keel that gives counterbalance and prevents capsizing?
.
That's borrowed from traditional astrologer Robert Schmidts NAUTICAL METAPHOR
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...TAPHOR&f=false
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  #67  
Unread 01-28-2019, 12:43 AM
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

On the general frequency of the bundle or cluster pattern below. Rudhyar here was examining Benito Mussolini's chart.

“This Cluster pattern often appears in the ephemeris at certain times of history; but it does not seem too frequent among lists of 'notable horoscopes,' perhaps 'success' often requires more than a somewhat blind concentration of activities; both a somewhat larger perspective and a certain type of inner tension may be needed. In such a Cluster pattern much depends on its center of gravity.” Source: Dane Rudhyar, The Astrology of Personality (1936), Chapter 16.


The bolded part, seem to me, to be of Great Food for Thought.

One, it gives hints to how transits work in the native's life, and how few "real" opportunities may come by to a native of this pattern. Hence reminded of the often used keyword: Opportunistic.

Two, if one indeed have a narrow focus, and perhaps not well-rounded enough to understand a bigger picture. Certain actions at a particular point of time may not be too well thought-out and may be entirely self-based, and thus the native may not foresee consequences down the road at a much later time. Of course this is generalized and non-specific.

Third, if the native's energies are solely concentrated in a narrow, geometric domain. Then intensity applies, but this intensity is dependent on the winds of fate. At specific times in life, 100% of the natives energies are focused on 1-2 things. This may cause intense success, catapulted by the sole concentration of planet/energy. And of course deductively intense failure at other points. It makes me wonder what happens the rest of the time.

.
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  #68  
Unread 01-28-2019, 05:59 AM
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

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That's borrowed from traditional astrologer Robert Schmidts NAUTICAL METAPHOR
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...TAPHOR&f=false
I had to look that one up, I was surprized that a traditional astrologer would talk about the bundle pattern.

But what you meant was that the sailboat was already used in astrology as a metaphor. It makes sense, sailing has been around for a while. So it seems it's an analogy that comes from hellenistic astrology, where the lord of the ascendant, the lord of the lot of fortune, etc, are described as crew members, yes?

I think we are talking about two different ships.
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  #69  
Unread 01-28-2019, 06:13 AM
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Smile Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

Ships passing in the night.
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  #70  
Unread 01-28-2019, 06:41 AM
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

Any thoughts guys? Expanded or perhaps corrected upon my string of ideas above?

Perhaps tying the bundled trine as the "sailing ship", with transits...resulting in "intensity applies, but this intensity is dependent on the winds of fate"?
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  #71  
Unread 01-28-2019, 07:02 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

Is this metaphor just for Harrison's pattern (fits it so well), or for the Bundle in general?
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  #72  
Unread 01-28-2019, 07:15 AM
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

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Is this metaphor just for Harrison's pattern (fits it so well), or for the Bundle in general?
Well Harrison's Bundle has the stabilizing Trine, but not all Bundles do. I am under the current impression the trine operates like a 'well engineered sailing ship', more apt to handle 'the winds of fate'.

When the winds are good, it absolutely soars. When the winds are bad, its unlikely to sink or crash. We can extrapolate from there what may happen in a Bundle nativity when one does not have that Trine.

Yet, the sailing ship is still one ship in its lonesomeness, however well-engineered; hence entirely self-focused and self-sufficient.
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  #73  
Unread 01-28-2019, 12:21 PM
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Smile Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

Given the incredible convenience and range of the company known as Amazon, it might be instructive to view the Chart of Jeff Bezos, it's founder, and the driving force behind its expansion.
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  #74  
Unread 01-28-2019, 12:28 PM
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

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Originally Posted by Therese View Post

I had to look that one up, I was surprized that a traditional astrologer would talk about the bundle pattern.
But what you meant was that the sailboat was already used in astrology as a metaphor.
It makes sense, sailing has been around for a while.
So it seems it's an analogy that comes from hellenistic astrology,
where the lord of the ascendant, the lord of the lot of fortune, etc, are described as crew members, yes?
I think we are talking about two different ships.
Robert Schmidts NAUTICAL METAPHOR
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=GjI8DgAAQBAJ&pg=PA666&lpg=PA666&dq=ROBERT +SCHMIDT+NAUTICAL+METAPHOR&source=bl&ots=ynKgqxAxz-&sig=ACfU3U32ykUzxWTVxIDrmOCfRbj-De2eCA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjhj7qW_I7gAhXCShUIHb5 tBuEQ6AEwCnoECAUQAQ#v=onepage&q=ROBERT%20SCHMIDT%2 0NAUTICAL%20METAPHOR&f=false
is well known amongst traditionalists
I merely highlighted it as interesting that a Modernist astrologer
would use a traditionalist analogy
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  #75  
Unread 01-28-2019, 12:37 PM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

As far as the sailing ship metaphor is concerned, I came up with it on my own, decades ago, concerning my Chart, and others like it, with a lot of Water and Air placements. For Earth and Fire, I (with so much Water) imagined it as a motorized boat, engine-driven, which enables the ability to go against the winds and tides without having to constantly take them into consideration. Similar minds think alike.

Last edited by david starling; 01-28-2019 at 12:44 PM.
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