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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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Unread 12-07-2014, 06:16 PM
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Firdaria for Marriage?

Is it said in texts or has anyone observed patterns related to marriage regarding Firdaria? E.g. 7th Lord is ruling either the main or sub-period? Surely you don't need both the 1st and 7th Lords in place...I bet that's not when everyone got married!

(on a mini side note, would people consider the Sun for marriage for gay male charts? I just don't see why to use the Moon in that case).

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Unread 12-09-2014, 11:08 AM
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Re: Firdaria for Marriage?

I don't use the Firdaria, but I do use another sequential time-lord system similar to it. In my observations I have noted that the lord of the Lot of Marriage, Venus, lord of the 7th or a planet therein handing over, or taking up from a planet figured to the native somehow shows romantic events. However, I see these time-lord systems as broad significations of the quality of the life and as such I would be looking for confirmation from the directed Hyleg/profected ASC/Solar Revolution before I judged anything, marriage or otherwise.

As for the Sun in gay male charts, no. When one uses Venus to judge the quality of one's relationships, it is not because Venus represents women, but because Venus represents the joining of the people involved. This is why Venus should be consulted for man or woman, heterosexual or homosexual. Marriage is actually a very tricky subject to delineate now as the manifestation of relationships has changed from when the doctrines of astrology were formulated. Like everything in the chart, we have to learn not what the ancients said, but why, and then apply it to our own time.
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Unread 12-10-2014, 06:16 PM
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Re: Firdaria for Marriage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by byjove View Post
Is it said in texts or has anyone observed patterns related to marriage regarding Firdaria? E.g. 7th Lord is ruling either the main or sub-period? Surely you don't need both the 1st and 7th Lords in place...I bet that's not when everyone got married!

(on a mini side note, would people consider the Sun for marriage for gay male charts? I just don't see why to use the Moon in that case).
actually, for me it worked.
i was looking at Firdaria back in 1999ish. i got married in 2001 and fridaria was pointing to a marriage *jup/venus* from 2000 to 2002. it has some finances clause in there as well. I was doing rather well in 2000 through 2002.

T
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Unread 12-10-2014, 11:43 PM
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Re: Firdaria for Marriage?

There are quite a few methods actually for finding times related to marriage and relationships. Of course, we have Venus as the natural significator of romantic relationships in general. But we also have the Moon which naturally signifies marriage, according to Valens. Then we have the accidental, or as I prefer to call it, "circumstantial" significators of marriage, which are the the lord of the 7th place and the sign of the Lot of Marriage and its lord. Some authors may also consider the 10th and/or 4th places for marriage (iirc, Ptolemy and Valens).

Just as there are several approaches to interpreting the father (Sun/Saturn/Jupiter) and mother (Moon/Venus), similarly marriage is also considered by Valens using several different approaches. Valens presented at least two versions of the Lot of Marriage, Jupiter/Venus, and secondly either Sun/Venus or Moon/Mars for men and women respectively. Maternus also had several Lots dealing with marriage, although they do not have the same names.


In terms of time lord methods, in the sole example on Decennials given by Valens, when the period was handed over to Venus (Level 3 lord), matters concerning the wife came up. Decennials is similar to Firdaria in that planetary periods are used to derive the time periods, and that the planets, not the signs, have rulership over the times.

In zodiacal releasing, according to what I've read in an article by Curtis Manwaring, either Fortune or Spirit may give indications of marriage when the rulership is handed over to the signs and/or planet related to marriage. In Schwarzenegger's example, it was the Lot of Spirit, and the 8th place, which was ruled by the ruler of the 7th place, was activated, resulting in marriage.

According to a chapter in Valens where he talked about the second method of finding the Lot of Marriage, he said that the Lot should "agree with" Spirit for men, but with Fortune for women. This led me to infer that we should probably release from Spirit to find marriage for men, while for women we should release from Fortune (although there are complications and/or exceptions, when the Lot is cadent from the Ascendant).

However, this is just a hypothesis, so it is not established yet. I need to research some real charts to determine its veracity. When I have the time...I really should be doing something else right now X_X.


With all this in mind, the conclusion that I would draw is that when using whatever time lord methods, including the firdaria, we should look at all the significators that are related to marriage, and not just the 7th place. Also remember to evaluate in the natal chart whether marriage is likely in the first place!



Hope this helped,

Larxene Xenohart


EDIT: Edited wrong information about zodiacal releasing.
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Last edited by Larxene; 12-10-2014 at 11:57 PM.
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Unread 12-11-2014, 12:16 AM
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Re: Firdaria for Marriage?

Hey all

i didnt look before but there was an lunar eclipse 2 days before i got married.

June 21, 2001 7:58 AM Sun 0 Can 11 Conjunct Moon 0 Can 11(SE)

Solar eclipse was conj my natal mars


July 5, 2001 11:04 AM Sun 13 Can 39 Opposition Moon 13 Cap 39(LE)
Lunar eclipse sextiles/trine my IC/MH and Moon and sun/moon midpoint
Jupiter trine and uranus conj were on top of my desc

so i'd say pay attention to eclipses. they never seem to fail

T
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