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  #1  
Unread 01-26-2016, 04:31 AM
Imperial1922 Imperial1922 is offline
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Pluto Aspects lead to narcissism?

I have
Mars in Pisces 7th Square Pluto (exact)
Sun in Capricorn 5th semi square Pluto (exact)
Midheaven in Gemini opposite Pluto (wide)
Ascendant in Virgo Square Pluto (wide)

Since narcissism leads to being power-hungry would this be prime examples of that? Personally ive self-diagnosed with it (need to diagnose it from proffesional)

There isnt alot about Sun Semi square pluto but i think its much more significant to me than i thought.

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  #2  
Unread 01-26-2016, 08:01 AM
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Re: Pluto Aspects lead to narcissism?

You could be right. It would be appropriate to recognise this in yourself, as this is the planet of deep psychology.

This link on Sun-Pluto aspects may help. Semi-square would be similar to square.

http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/sunplutoaspects.html

It doesn't always turn out badly though. If you have Mars in Pisces and Virgo Ascendant, does that translate into a desire to serve/help other people? Capricorn Sun can feel a strong sense of responsibility. You would just have to be careful not to impose on others your own ideas/solutions, if they don't want them. A strong Pluto needs to balance the see-saw (self versus other) with cooperation, consideration of the other person, questioning what the other person needs/wants before telling them what they need/want....etc.
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Unread 01-27-2016, 02:33 AM
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Re: Pluto Aspects lead to narcissism?

I know someone who has every planet aspecting Pluto, he thinks he is God and supreme authority in the universe.

He is a malignant narcissist

Malignant narcissism is a psychological syndrome comprising an extreme mix of narcissism, antisocial personality disorder, aggression, and sadism.[1] Often grandiose, and always ready to raise hostility levels, the malignant narcissist undermines organizations in which they are involved, and dehumanizes the people with whom they associate.[2]

Social psychologist Erich Fromm first coined the term "malignant narcissism" in 1964, describing it as a "severe mental sickness" representing "the quintessence of evil". He characterized the condition as "the most severe pathology and the root of the most vicious destructiveness and inhumanity".[4] Edith Weigert (1967) saw malignant narcissism as a "regressive escape from frustration by distortion and denial of reality"; while Herbert Rosenfeld (1971) described it as "a disturbing form of narcissistic personality where grandiosity is built around aggression and the destructive aspects of the self become idealized"

Malignant narcissism is highlighted as a key area in the study of mass murder, sexual, and serial murder

Including antisocial, sadistic and paranoid features. The purest form of evil, a person that idealizes his violent and brutal ways, has no other emotion than anger and resentment, amoral and void of a conscience, a brutal and vicious individual, who has been traumatized and wants revenge on those who have caused the trauma. Millon describes them, as terrorists, serial killers, rapists and prison inmates, who have been isolated, as well as gang members, and victims of abuse. When the individual has satisfied their thirst for revenge, the individual may or may not return to normal self, even though the individual may want to remain as the maligant narcissist.

Fearless, guiltless, remorseless, calculating, ruthless, inhumane, callous, brutal, rancorous, aggressive, biting, merciless, vicious, cruel, spiteful, ; hateful and jealous; anticipates betrayal and seeks punishment; desires revenge; Has been isolated, and is often suicidal, and is homicidal.

------------------

Would you fall in love with someone who is arrogant, exhibitionistic, vain, manipulative, and greedy for admiration? Would you work under a boss who flies into uncontrollable rages, assassinates the character of anyone who gets in his way, and then projects his own paranoia on to you? Sounds like a no-brainer...but many of us actually do! That makes us codependents and them power-hungry narcissists.

As they trample over us in their quest for self-aggrandisement and we find ourselves dragged into an unhealthy parasitic relationship with them, our lives can become utterly miserable and feel out of control. This book shines a light on the reasons why narcissists are like they are, and on the pain and suffering they inflict on the codependents around them and, more importantly, it shows how both can move towards winning back control and regaining happiness in their lives.

Ras Elased Australis:
Cruel, heartless, bold, bombastic, brutish, destructive, artistic appreciation. Power of expression, spiritual gifts, leadership

Algol:
Primitive female sexuality; strangulation, beheading, danger to throat and neck, murder, violence, mass catastrophe; the "Evil One", the Demon Star; passionate; intense; hysterical.

Sabik:
Wastefulness and lost energy, perverted morals, success in evil deeds

Galactic center:
source of energy, motivation, aspiration; alien consciousness; crisis of faith; travel; education; philosophy; spiritual urges; single-minded dedication

Here is a composite of him and a psychology book called Narcissism: Behind the Mask 1St Edition


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The Golden Rule:The principle of treating others as one wishes to be treated. It involves empathizing and perceiving others also as "I" or "self". The Golden Rule will never inspire a Psychopath. Psychopathy is characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, egotistical traits.


Last edited by Cold Fusion; 01-27-2016 at 03:09 AM.
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  #4  
Unread 02-01-2016, 02:26 AM
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Re: Pluto Aspects lead to narcissism?

Cold Fusion: I don't understand the source of the chart above....it's a "composite" of a person and a book???" I don't get it.

Fear of losing control (deep, deadly fear) often leads to people acting in a way that is very controlling; but especially they will do just about anything to prevent others from discovering their fear. They lost sight of reality. They become obsessed.
Good and evil lose all meaning. Feeling in control and having a receding of fear is everything to them.

To Imperial1922: I would have to see your birth chart in order to ascertain if (in my opinion only) there is evidence of narcissism.
Most narcissists cannot accurately diagnose themselves because they to not have any objectivity about their own behavior.

So if you will show your chart you might find it interesting.
LIN
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  #5  
Unread 02-01-2016, 10:23 PM
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Re: Pluto Aspects lead to narcissism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lin View Post
Cold Fusion: I don't understand the source of the chart above....it's a "composite" of a person and a book???" I don't get it.
LIN
He embodies narcissism (In this case Narcissistic personality disorder and Malignant Narcissism).

Simple Definition of embody

  • : to represent (something) in a clear and obvious way : to be a symbol or example of (something)
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The Golden Rule:The principle of treating others as one wishes to be treated. It involves empathizing and perceiving others also as "I" or "self". The Golden Rule will never inspire a Psychopath. Psychopathy is characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, egotistical traits.


Last edited by Cold Fusion; 02-03-2016 at 01:38 AM.
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  #6  
Unread 02-03-2016, 07:42 PM
Lin Lin is offline
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Re: Pluto Aspects lead to narcissism?

Still don't get it. You are making a composite chart of a person and a book???
Please explain who told you such a chart would be valid.
Also....how did you get the chart of a book? Do you have the exact time and date the book was published? How do you get a birth "time" for a book?
LIN
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  #7  
Unread 02-06-2016, 03:37 PM
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Re: Pluto Aspects lead to narcissism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lin View Post
Still don't get it. You are making a composite chart of a person and a book???
Please explain who told you such a chart would be valid.
Also....how did you get the chart of a book? Do you have the exact time and date the book was published? How do you get a birth "time" for a book?
LIN
You must follow links.

It's like when he wrote the book, he wrote the book about him.

Publisher: The Book Guild Ltd; 1St Edition edition (November 24, 2010)

9 A.M. is the standard business hour business's opens their door's.

Narcissism: Behind the Mask 1St Edition
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The Golden Rule:The principle of treating others as one wishes to be treated. It involves empathizing and perceiving others also as "I" or "self". The Golden Rule will never inspire a Psychopath. Psychopathy is characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, egotistical traits.

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  #8  
Unread 02-06-2016, 08:27 PM
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Re: Pluto Aspects lead to narcissism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cold Fusion View Post
I know someone who has every planet aspecting Pluto, he thinks he is God and supreme authority in the universe.

He is a malignant narcissist

Malignant narcissism is a psychological syndrome comprising an extreme mix of narcissism, antisocial personality disorder, aggression, and sadism.[1] Often grandiose, and always ready to raise hostility levels, the malignant narcissist undermines organizations in which they are involved, and dehumanizes the people with whom they associate.[2]

Social psychologist Erich Fromm first coined the term "malignant narcissism" in 1964, describing it as a "severe mental sickness" representing "the quintessence of evil". He characterized the condition as "the most severe pathology and the root of the most vicious destructiveness and inhumanity".[4] Edith Weigert (1967) saw malignant narcissism as a "regressive escape from frustration by distortion and denial of reality"; while Herbert Rosenfeld (1971) described it as "a disturbing form of narcissistic personality where grandiosity is built around aggression and the destructive aspects of the self become idealized"

Malignant narcissism is highlighted as a key area in the study of mass murder, sexual, and serial murder

Including antisocial, sadistic and paranoid features. The purest form of evil, a person that idealizes his violent and brutal ways, has no other emotion than anger and resentment, amoral and void of a conscience, a brutal and vicious individual, who has been traumatized and wants revenge on those who have caused the trauma. Millon describes them, as terrorists, serial killers, rapists and prison inmates, who have been isolated, as well as gang members, and victims of abuse. When the individual has satisfied their thirst for revenge, the individual may or may not return to normal self, even though the individual may want to remain as the maligant narcissist.

Fearless, guiltless, remorseless, calculating, ruthless, inhumane, callous, brutal, rancorous, aggressive, biting, merciless, vicious, cruel, spiteful, ; hateful and jealous; anticipates betrayal and seeks punishment; desires revenge; Has been isolated, and is often suicidal, and is homicidal.

------------------

Would you fall in love with someone who is arrogant, exhibitionistic, vain, manipulative, and greedy for admiration? Would you work under a boss who flies into uncontrollable rages, assassinates the character of anyone who gets in his way, and then projects his own paranoia on to you? Sounds like a no-brainer...but many of us actually do! That makes us codependents and them power-hungry narcissists.

As they trample over us in their quest for self-aggrandisement and we find ourselves dragged into an unhealthy parasitic relationship with them, our lives can become utterly miserable and feel out of control. This book shines a light on the reasons why narcissists are like they are, and on the pain and suffering they inflict on the codependents around them and, more importantly, it shows how both can move towards winning back control and regaining happiness in their lives.

I don't think this is fair. I have every planet aspecting Pluto but Jupiter. To link such a natal configuration with a mental illness of that severity, in unqualified language, is very misleading. Not all of us who've gone through the Plutonian experience of trauma and psychological upheaval are left without a conscience. In fact, the more traumatic moments in my childhood only strengthen my empathy now, and my sorrow for those similarly mistreated and wounded. My girlfriend had much the same experience also, and we help each other. Depressive I can certainly be, and, in rare moments, vindictive towards 'oppressor figures', but this soon passes for what it is. I have Mars in Pisces also, btw, like the first person.

I'm sorry if you knew someone of this description. But you're in la-la land if you believe (and you may not) that Pluto produces only psychopaths. I'm a keen reader of people and am fascinated by psychological typologies as well, as I suspect you are, but I would caution against applying them indiscriminately, please. You could tone down the witch-hunter's spiel, for sure. The fun turns ugly when the person behind the planets actually shows face, my dear
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'...Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.' Shakespeare.
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  #9  
Unread 02-06-2016, 11:37 PM
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Re: Pluto Aspects lead to narcissism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImNotThere9 View Post
I don't think this is fair. I have every planet aspecting Pluto but Jupiter. To link such a natal configuration with a mental illness of that severity, in unqualified language, is very misleading. Not all of us who've gone through the Plutonian experience of trauma and psychological upheaval are left without a conscience. In fact, the more traumatic moments in my childhood only strengthen my empathy now, and my sorrow for those similarly mistreated and wounded. My girlfriend had much the same experience also, and we help each other. Depressive I can certainly be, and, in rare moments, vindictive towards 'oppressor figures', but this soon passes for what it is. I have Mars in Pisces also, btw, like the first person.

I'm sorry if you knew someone of this description. But you're in la-la land if you believe (and you may not) that Pluto produces only psychopaths. I'm a keen reader of people and am fascinated by psychological typologies as well, as I suspect you are, but I would caution against applying them indiscriminately, please. You could tone down the witch-hunter's spiel, for sure. The fun turns ugly when the person behind the planets actually shows face, my dear
I didn't start the topic, I was the third one to reply. Why attack just me?

I said "I know someone who has every planet aspecting Pluto, he thinks he is God and supreme power in the universe." Seriously, I am not joking.

Hence the reason I posted the composite also.

You are the one who insinuated. I was actually giving the benefit of the doubt. Maybe I shouldn't.

B.T.W. I come from an abusive household also.
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The Golden Rule:The principle of treating others as one wishes to be treated. It involves empathizing and perceiving others also as "I" or "self". The Golden Rule will never inspire a Psychopath. Psychopathy is characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, egotistical traits.


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  #10  
Unread 02-07-2016, 12:08 PM
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Re: Pluto Aspects lead to narcissism?

No attack intended. I suppose I was responding to the charged language in your post and expressions like "evil". Some of us actively strive to be good people, to educate ourselves and pursue vocations and wholesome relationships. An astrologer might say that Pluto people are simply more cognizant than most of the potential for evil in every person. Whether they choose that path, or the light, may come down to conditioning and the extent to which such a person shakes off the early patterns, or sees them for what they are, and tries to inform them with more responsible, viable modes of being: to find as it were their true values, to sophisticate their sense of morality and ethics.

Happy people are good people.

P.S. Does this person with all the Pluto aspects have dark features? I often wondered if that accounted for mine, given how much fairer my family is by comparison.
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Astra inclinant, sed non obligant - Latin proverb.


'...Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.' Shakespeare.
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Unread 02-07-2016, 08:07 PM
Imperial1922 Imperial1922 is offline
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Re: Pluto Aspects lead to narcissism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lin View Post
Cold Fusion: I don't understand the source of the chart above....it's a "composite" of a person and a book???" I don't get it.

Fear of losing control (deep, deadly fear) often leads to people acting in a way that is very controlling; but especially they will do just about anything to prevent others from discovering their fear. They lost sight of reality. They become obsessed.
Good and evil lose all meaning. Feeling in control and having a receding of fear is everything to them.

To Imperial1922: I would have to see your birth chart in order to ascertain if (in my opinion only) there is evidence of narcissism.
Most narcissists cannot accurately diagnose themselves because they to not have any objectivity about their own behavior.

So if you will show your chart you might find it interesting.
LIN
here is the link to my natal chart,please tell me,honestly people say im selfish and delusional when i dont see myself that way,i only want whats best for myself and to be seen as someone important in life.
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Unread 02-07-2016, 09:25 PM
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Re: Pluto Aspects lead to narcissism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lin View Post
Still don't get it. You are making a composite chart of a person and a book???
Please explain who told you such a chart would be valid.
Also....how did you get the chart of a book? Do you have the exact time and date the book was published? How do you get a birth "time" for a book?
LIN
Sure you can make a composite chart of a person and anything, especially of a book.
Nobody has to tell you that the chart is valid, you can play with such charts and see for yourself.
Once I made a composite chart of one pf Pink Floyd's songs and my natal, I had great insights.
I am sure I read about composites charts of this nature , maybe even on astrodatabank, and some astro articles, I just don't remember examples now.
You must be a newbie since you are so intrigued....but see, now you learned something new. I encourage you to do a composite chart of my post and your natal chart.
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Unread 02-08-2016, 09:43 AM
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Re: Pluto Aspects lead to narcissism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperial1922 View Post
here is the link to my natal chart,please tell me,honestly people say im selfish and delusional when i dont see myself that way,i only want whats best for myself and to be seen as someone important in life.
"Delusional" could be Mercury/Neptune conjunct. "Seen as someone important" - Sun in Capricorn and the 5th house which is leonine.

Pluto is conjunct Chiron (the wound that doesn't heal) and square Mars. So look up this aspect. It could be that your drive to make something of yourself comes across as overly self-obsessed. Or selfish in a way that is harmful to others, especially family (Pluto-Chiron in 4th house). Do you act a bit like a "petty tyrant"? You can google that phrase. It's from Castaneda. He wrote a lot about the problem of self-importance. Pluto rules your 3rd house of speech and siblings. Pluto is conjunct Chiron. Do you get into power-struggles or slanging matches with them? Do you tend to fling insults (a typical way that Chiron will manifest when associated with 3rd house/Mercury)? Pluto/Chiron connect to Saturn also. Saturn is always looking to boost himself, at the expense of putting others down.

Last edited by Sweet Pea; 02-08-2016 at 09:47 AM.
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Unread 02-09-2016, 02:05 AM
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Re: Pluto Aspects lead to narcissism?

Probably, i'm a Moon/Pluto in Scorpio in the sixth house, and I have to watch my narcissistic tenancies; I also have an Aquarius midheaven which contributes to the complex (though it also cuts it down too thankfully) in addition to Saturn in Aquarius as well so it adds yet another layer to the mix. I purchased a book on narcissism in high school and I am writing a book all about it too which maybe one day I will release.
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Unread 02-11-2016, 03:43 PM
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Re: Pluto Aspects lead to narcissism?

I thought composite charts could only be between people, but when you think about it, its an abstract concept of a person and a relationship with another person of something.

For example, I thing you could write up a composite chart for you and your employer, like if your employer was GM or the St Louis Cardinals. But then you cold also make up a synastry chart.

I wonder what a synastry chart would mean between a book and a person. That would be really fun to look at. Cold Fusion, can you give us the birth data of both the person and the book so that a synastry chart could be made?
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Unread 02-11-2016, 09:56 PM
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Re: Pluto Aspects lead to narcissism?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperial1922 View Post
I have
Mars in Pisces 7th Square Pluto (exact)
Sun in Capricorn 5th semi square Pluto (exact)
Midheaven in Gemini opposite Pluto (wide)
Ascendant in Virgo Square Pluto (wide)

Since narcissism leads to being power-hungry would this be prime examples of that? Personally ive self-diagnosed with it (need to diagnose it from proffesional)

There isnt alot about Sun Semi square pluto but i think its much more significant to me than i thought.
Well, you might be doing better than you thought then. Yes, Pluto aspects could lead to narcissism. At the same time, a narcissist can BE power-hungry, but that isn't at all what makes someone a narcissist...

Someone can be power-hungry without being a narcissist.

There are also billions of things that can lead to someone being power hungry.

From the Dr. types and Mayo:

"Definition. By Mayo Clinic Staff. Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others."

This isn't what you just described. Remember, egoism is also all about what is best for the individual. You aren't using egoism to even remotely rationalize what you are saying here. You are actually saying that you have to watch your tendency that concerns you, even if it means not getting everything you want - in a nutshell?

That is narcissism, like at all.

The Columbine shooters were narcissists; they aren't always killers, but they truly have next to no empathy to speak of.

I am starting to think that this word is being used much more often than it is understood. I think it is time to start pointing this out. While I am coming to the defense of Pluto, one will understand what this disorder or character trait truly looks like once you meet a true narcissist...

Your average arrogant a** that thinks they are wonderful, a trophy-winner, a God, beautiful, whatever the issue, still cares about how you feel at the end of the day 98% of the time and still isn't a narcissist.

Sometimes people really are threatened by confident position or person. That isn't narcissism, that is insecurity.
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Unread 02-16-2016, 06:46 AM
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Re: Pluto Aspects lead to narcissism?

I don't use semi squares and there is little info because they are really are weak in influence. You need to post the whole chart so we can see the aspects. what orbs you may use may not be valid as they are too wide.
For Pluto use up to 4 degrees only. For narcissism it would have to be involved with Mercury and the Moon as well as the Sun perhaps. Perhaps a challenge to Mars for self centredness.

Citing just one or two aspects will not give us a clear picture of any situation.
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Last edited by Claire19; 02-16-2016 at 06:49 AM.
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Unread 02-20-2016, 04:39 AM
Imperial1922 Imperial1922 is offline
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Re: Pluto Aspects lead to narcissism?

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Originally Posted by Dubyadude1986 View Post
Well, you might be doing better than you thought then. Yes, Pluto aspects could lead to narcissism. At the same time, a narcissist can BE power-hungry, but that isn't at all what makes someone a narcissist...

Someone can be power-hungry without being a narcissist.

There are also billions of things that can lead to someone being power hungry.

From the Dr. types and Mayo:

"Definition. By Mayo Clinic Staff. Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others."

This isn't what you just described. Remember, egoism is also all about what is best for the individual. You aren't using egoism to even remotely rationalize what you are saying here. You are actually saying that you have to watch your tendency that concerns you, even if it means not getting everything you want - in a nutshell?

That is narcissism, like at all.

The Columbine shooters were narcissists; they aren't always killers, but they truly have next to no empathy to speak of.

I am starting to think that this word is being used much more often than it is understood. I think it is time to start pointing this out. While I am coming to the defense of Pluto, one will understand what this disorder or character trait truly looks like once you meet a true narcissist...

Your average arrogant a** that thinks they are wonderful, a trophy-winner, a God, beautiful, whatever the issue, still cares about how you feel at the end of the day 98% of the time and still isn't a narcissist.

Sometimes people really are threatened by confident position or person. That isn't narcissism, that is insecurity.
in school i personally get into power struggles myself, and there was this guy whos personality was somewhat similar to me, and basically does what you say. We both believe we are intelligent, but we both clash. we would both try to **** off one another alot, which ends up in me holding grudges against him. we both badmouth to others about each other (it was an immature thing, but at least im better as a person). Honestly narcissism may inflate their egos by gaining power, ive seen people like that and i have been like that in the past. My career goals are to become a CEO of a company, or somewhere along those lines. Also tend to personally fantasize about having power very often, i dont know if that counts.
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Unread 02-22-2016, 07:39 PM
magnolia8 magnolia8 is offline
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Re: Pluto Aspects lead to narcissism?

Aren't you a teenager? I ask because I was pretty rough as one myself - callous and manipulative, all in the name of ego. I felt totally justified. You may mellow out as you age, although you don't seem like a textbook-narcissist to begin with.

To answer the thread:
I think about myself obsessively (still). There's absolutely no room in my thoughts for anybody else. I'm not the generous Leo pop-astrology would have you believe (and the thought of being one seems threatening, LoL). I do have a few major hard Pluto/8th-house placements.

Now, for me, I'll admit that innermost needs aren't being met; I fantasize/obsess over these very needs. However, I do wonder whether a strong need for self-preservation is just a dominant part of my psyche, such that a tendency for egotism may always exist. I thought Plutonic types were concerned with security anyway - if so, I don't find it unusual that you're laser-focused on your needs and wants.

Last edited by magnolia8; 02-22-2016 at 07:44 PM.
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Unread 04-12-2020, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ImNotThere9 View Post
I don't think this is fair. I have every planet aspecting Pluto but Jupiter. To link such a natal configuration with a mental illness of that severity, in unqualified language, is very misleading. Not all of us who've gone through the Plutonian experience of trauma and psychological upheaval are left without a conscience. In fact, the more traumatic moments in my childhood only strengthen my empathy now, and my sorrow for those similarly mistreated and wounded. My girlfriend had much the same experience also, and we help each other. Depressive I can certainly be, and, in rare moments, vindictive towards 'oppressor figures', but this soon passes for what it is. I have Mars in Pisces also, btw, like the first person.

I'm sorry if you knew someone of this description. But you're in la-la land if you believe (and you may not) that Pluto produces only psychopaths. I'm a keen reader of people and am fascinated by psychological typologies as well, as I suspect you are, but I would caution against applying them indiscriminately, please. You could tone down the witch-hunter's spiel, for sure. The fun turns ugly when the person behind the planets actually shows face, my dear
I have to agree on this one. I have many personal planets conjunct pluto and I am the antithesis of a narcissist. I am a true empath and my traumatic life has made me who I am today. I realise that all my plutonian trials and tribulations have nurtured compassion and kindness and I live to help other people become empowered. I am a wounded healer and proud of what I have survived and overcome. Pluto is all about power and when we learn that with great power comes great responsibility and that we have a choice how we wield it we can have a powerful force for good. The choice is ours.
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Irisiel (05-07-2020)
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Unread 04-28-2020, 06:51 AM
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Re: Pluto Aspects lead to narcissism?

This is the birth chart of a more cruel, sadistic, narcissistic and unsympathetic person, with whom I had the displeasure of living ... he is my brother.

I'll summarize it in a few words so that it doesn't take too long:

He is a "golden child", he has always had the privilege of doing what he wanted and when he wanted; including hitting me and taking out your frustrations.

At home, he is a violent animal, in public places he is shy, religious (Jehovah's Witness), behaved, calm ... A pure narcissist of evil!

This is a narcissist's Christmas map.

I wanted to take the topic to ask if anyone can analyze it. Thank you.
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Unread 05-07-2020, 09:14 PM
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Re: Pluto Aspects lead to narcissism?

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Originally Posted by Watermoon369 View Post
I have to agree on this one. I have many personal planets conjunct pluto and I am the antithesis of a narcissist. I am a true empath and my traumatic life has made me who I am today. I realise that all my plutonian trials and tribulations have nurtured compassion and kindness and I live to help other people become empowered. I am a wounded healer and proud of what I have survived and overcome. Pluto is all about power and when we learn that with great power comes great responsibility and that we have a choice how we wield it we can have a powerful force for good. The choice is ours.
I hope to learn to wield my great Plutonian power for good someday! I never used to realize I had it. Shy and withdrawn as a child, accomplished but alone as an adult. I feel very much as you do. Sun-Mercury-Uranus all conjunct Pluto in the 12th House, in sensitive hard-working Virgo, Pluto opposite Chiron...Here at my 3rd Nodal Return in life I'm trying to learn to treat myself more gently at last. I don't want to be driven and guilt-driven till I die.

A big Ego I have, yes, only 'cause it's taken me this long to slow down and notice relationships. But not a narcissist.

I don't think Imperial, the OP, is, either. If he is a teenager, well, self-possessed is normal at that age. Imperial, how's your 10th House? Is your North Node there, by chance? You may well be powerfully driven by ambition. Balance it by devoting time to learn better whatever you're good at. Those of us who've paid our dues with hard work enjoy success more! And you'll naturally have sympathy for other hard-workers, too. A good boss always does.
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Unread 05-13-2020, 12:04 AM
OuterPlanets89 OuterPlanets89 is offline
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Re: Pluto Aspects lead to narcissism?

I feel like hard Pluto aspects indicate a feeling of powerlessness as a child in some capacity, and this usually manifests itself in one of two ways, since Pluto is an extreme, black/white, all-or-nothing type of energy.

1) The person never wants to feel powerless again, and chooses to project this onto the world, with how they do it is determined by which planet(s) are aspected by Pluto, along with which aspect/house/sign. This is where the potential for Narcissism could come in.

- Sun/Pluto: The ego, in some capacity, was broken at an early age (sometimes could also = loss of father, literally or figuratively); person vows to not let others break their sense of self ever again (via hiding their true self, or over-compensating, in its negative manifestations)
- Moon/Pluto: Emotional safety was not present or taken away at an early age; person vows to shield or protect their deep emotions from others (becomes psychologically manipulative if immature).
- Mercury, Venus and Mars all have their own negative manifestations as well. Mercury using speech and logic to maintain control, Venus using attraction and love to do so, and Mars using will/force to do so.

2) The powerlessness felt by the person as a child causes them to explore this issue, and get to the true core of it, which is something mature Plutonians are able to do better than others. This can result in leaders, revolutionaries and people who are strong enough in their views to combat the more negative aspects/institutions of society.

--

I think that Pluto often represents our concept and perception of Free Will. Those who feel like they didn't have any free will early on can either use this inner pain to manipulate others to make themselves feel "in control" later on, or they can recognize the unfairness/imbalance from that situation, and use it to make a change in their behavior in the opposite direction (i.e. selflessness).

Whether you believe Free Will is real or not, human beings need it as a concept -- otherwise you could say Fatalism would win out. Plutonic people often come from an environment of power-imbalance, which can be from archaic societal structures (i.e. unhealthy familial patterns, immigrants dealing with a new country which doesn't accept them, or whatever else). Either way, Pluto gives them the power to "go deep" and use this energy to combat the imbalances that humanity has accrued over the years, taking them further away from our original essence.

Neptune on the other hand represents surrender and connectivity, which shows the interconnectedness of all things, beings, and actions/reactions. I could probably go on for a while but it's certainly an interesting topic. The outer planets are all quite fascinating to me (hence the username).
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Unread 05-13-2020, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OuterPlanets89 View Post

...Since Pluto is an extreme, black/white, all-or-nothing type of energy.

1) The person never wants to feel powerless again, and chooses to project this onto the world...

- Sun/Pluto: The ego, in some capacity, was broken at an early age (sometimes could also = loss of father, literally or figuratively); person vows to not let others break their sense of self ever again (via hiding their true self, or over-compensating, in its negative manifestations)
- Moon/Pluto: Emotional safety was not present or taken away at an early age; person vows to shield or protect their deep emotions from others

... Mercury using speech and logic to maintain control...
All this rings true for me! Pluto conjunct Sun and Mercury and square Moon.

This is all quite new to me, especially Pluto. REALLY nice post, Outer Planets, you put things in a way I can understand a lot better.

(I'm following you around these topics...)

I have a pretty complicated Pluto, and every little bit more I learn helps unravel just a little bit more of my complexes & neuroses.
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OuterPlanets89 (05-13-2020)
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Unread 05-14-2020, 01:16 AM
OuterPlanets89 OuterPlanets89 is offline
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Re: Pluto Aspects lead to narcissism?

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Originally Posted by Irisiel View Post
All this rings true for me! Pluto conjunct Sun and Mercury and square Moon.

This is all quite new to me, especially Pluto. REALLY nice post, Outer Planets, you put things in a way I can understand a lot better.

(I'm following you around these topics...)

I have a pretty complicated Pluto, and every little bit more I learn helps unravel just a little bit more of my complexes & neuroses.
Thanks, I really appreciate that!

All of that Pluto gives you a ton of potential, and self-awareness is the biggest step to turning that energy into something good. I'm trying to do that myself!

Last edited by OuterPlanets89; 05-14-2020 at 01:18 AM.
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