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  #2051  
Unread 08-20-2019, 07:35 PM
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
The Earth is an astronomical Planet. Not a whole lot of astrologers using it though.
The old argument is: "Astrology is about what's in the sky" but how do we know earths ages, which we do bring up, have no effect on charts? Personally, I do not know, but it'd be interesting to study, were one so inclined.

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  #2052  
Unread 08-20-2019, 07:47 PM
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Smile Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
The old argument is: "Astrology is about what's in the sky" but how do we know earths ages, which we do bring up, have no effect on charts? Personally, I do not know, but it'd be interesting to study, were one so inclined.
Another old argument is, that to be considered as an astrological planet, it has to not only be in the sky, but able to be seen as a moving celestial body which reflects enough sunlight to be seen with "the eyes God gave us". For some reason, the Lunar Nodes are exempt from this requirement.
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  #2053  
Unread 08-20-2019, 07:49 PM
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaze View Post


The old argument is: "Astrology is about what's in the sky"
but how do we know earths ages, which we do bring up,
have no effect on charts?
Personally, I do not know, but it'd be interesting to study, were one so inclined.

Traditional Astrology is hierarchical
Mundane astrology astrological prediction has the following hierarchy of charts
as an example for the location of New York

starting with:


Grand Conjunction 1702

21 May 1702
4:01:37 PM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York
074W00'37"
40N42'26"


Great Mutation (Earth) 1802
17 Jul 1802
5:52:26 PM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York


Great Malefic 1976
12 May 1976
9:51:13 AM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York


.................................................. .................................................. ...........
HOWEVER

this chart....


Great Malefic 2004
25 May 2004
1:20 AM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York


....is now the operating Malefic Chart until....


Great Malefic 2034
26 Jun 2034
5:33:42 PM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York


becomes operative

and also


Great Mutation (Air) & Great Conjunction 2020
21 Dec 2020
1:24:22 PM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York


.................................................. .................................................. .....

MEANWHILE

Great Conjunction 2000

28 May 2000
11:07:39 AM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York


2019 Aries Ingress
20 Mar 2014
Federal Hall, New York


....Insert Your Natal Chart and/or 'Event Chart' Here.....

That is the hierarchy of charts in Mundane Astrology


Note:

Relocate the chart(s) to your country
and
for maximum accuracy
use the "foundation point"

eg: Romania = Alba Iulia, not Bucharesti

Japan = Kyoto, not Tokyo

Spain = Toledo, not Madrid

and so on



Quote:
Originally Posted by moonkat235 View Post


You mentioned how a person does not have unlimited free will without repercussions but rather a choice in how they react. I disagree.

I believe a natal chart at least reflects the core constitution of a person and then transits, progressions, profection years, solar returns, lunar returns, the 5 levels of Vimshottari etc. etc. The list can go on. These techniques together could tell you how that person will react at any given moment. I think astrology, if you wanted to dive right in and combine several techniques, could tell you what's going to happen within a very small and specific time frame. HOWEVER, who has time for that really?

Astrologers are unable at a practical level to correlate the heavens with minute human experiences given certain constraints like time and personal interest. I don't believe the errors in astrological prediction indicate free will is the cause of interference and deviation. I believe it is human error.
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  #2054  
Unread 08-23-2019, 11:33 AM
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

why dwarf planet pluto is not an astrological planet

Principle #1:

Traditional Astrology is based upon scientific ideas
that were re-discovered in the late 19th Century
and throughout 20th Century.


Principle #2:
Traditional Astrology is based upon Planets hurling or casting Rays.

It is a matter of irrefutable Science fact discovered in the last 115 years
that all objects generate some form of radiation,
even if only Black-Body Radiation.
That was discovered in 1899
and you can thank Planck
http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/l...radiation.html
and Boltzman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan%...3Boltzmann_law
and Wien.




Black-Body Radiation is applicable in Traditional Astrology,
but we're interested in the radiation generated by the Planets




Our Sun generates a wide variety of electromagnetic radiation
but the Moon and the 5 Planets do not.



The exact type of electromagnetic radiation generated by the Moon and 5 Planets is dependent on:


Mass
Diameter
Velocity of Axial Rotation
Orbital Velocity
Atmospheric content
Distribution of Elements
Exact chemical make-up


Additionally, the first four items
Mass, Diameter, Velocity of Axial Rotation and Orbital Velocity

determine the size of the magnetosphere.
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  #2055  
Unread 08-23-2019, 09:09 PM
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post


Saturn is the Planet of "limitations".
It's the farthest Planet from the Earth
that can be identified as a Planet by a person with 20/20 vision.
Since Modernistic astrology is not predicated on naked-eye visibility,
it can go beyond Saturn's orbit and use the outermost Planets.

The best human eyesight in optimal conditions
can detect magnitudes down to 6.5, and Uranus deviates between 5.38 and 6.03,
so its really not that visible.
Its barely visible once a year when it opposes the Sun,
and youd have to know where to look.
You really have to bend over backwards to look at Uranus.
Saturn signifies limits
because Saturn is at the limit of human visibility - Patrick Watson

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  #2056  
Unread 08-26-2019, 11:06 PM
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

The posts have gained some quality. Still not enough to have an actual debate as thousands of memes have pushed people out, but quality posts attempted. Noice.
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  #2057  
Unread 08-27-2019, 01:58 AM
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Smile Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
The posts have gained some quality. Still not enough to have an actual debate as thousands of memes have pushed people out, but quality posts attempted. Noice.
Reading in between the memes.
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  #2058  
Unread 08-27-2019, 11:41 AM
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Smile Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Pluto rules a Water-sign. You don't get that from Pluto being a combination of Mars (Fire-sign ruler) & Saturn (Earth-sign ruler).
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  #2059  
Unread 08-27-2019, 03:39 PM
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Reading in between the memes.
That should be a rule listed when new members join. "Read in between the memes, please."
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  #2060  
Unread 09-07-2019, 04:22 AM
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Plenty of Pluto to coincide with the massive destruction and probable huge loss of lives and/or missing in the Bahamas caused by hurricane Dorian.

The Canlunar covering hurricane Dorian's stall over Grand Bahama Island progressed to the stall there on September 2nd, 1:30 am, EDT, with all eclipses from September 1st 2018 through September 2nd 2019. None of the eclipses located there had Mars or Pluto on an angle and only 1 had Uranus near an angle (The total lunar eclipse of January 21st had Uranus within 120' of it's Desc).

The progressed Canlunar had an MC at 21434' (655' Scorpio in longitude).

It had it's Uranus on the IC and it's Pluto on the Asc.

All of the following aspects are from eclipse points to the progressed Canlunar and were measured in right ascension.

It had Pluto from the January 5th solar eclipse on it's Asc.

It had the January 21st total lunar eclipse square the MC (within 130' of RA) and eclipse Pluto on the Asc.

Saturn and Pluto from the July 2nd total solar eclipse straddled the progressed Canlunar's Asc (their midpoint was on it), it's Mars square to the progressed Canlunar's MC and and it's Uranus on it's IC.

The July 16th lunar eclipse was square to the progressed Canlunar's MC (within 240' of RA), it's Saturn and Pluto straddling the Asc and it's Uranus on the IC.
Attached Images
File Type: gif a-Prog Cnlnr GBI.gif (11.8 KB, 1 views)
File Type: gif b-P Cnlnr Jan 5 SE.gif (17.4 KB, 1 views)
File Type: gif c-P Cnlnr Jan 21 TLE.gif (17.9 KB, 1 views)
File Type: gif d-P Cnlnr Jul 2 TSE.gif (18.1 KB, 1 views)
File Type: gif e-P Cnlnr Jul 16 LE.gif (18.3 KB, 1 views)
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  #2061  
Unread 09-07-2019, 05:05 AM
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Smile Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by unique_astrology View Post
Plenty of Pluto to coincide with the massive destruction and probable huge loss of lives and/or missing in the Bahamas caused by hurricane Dorian.

The Canlunar covering hurricane Dorian's stall over Grand Bahama Island progressed to the stall there on September 2nd, 1:30 am, EDT, with all eclipses from September 1st 2018 through September 2nd 2019. None of the eclipses located there had Mars or Pluto on an angle and only 1 had Uranus near an angle (The total lunar eclipse of January 21st had Uranus within 120' of it's Desc).

The progressed Canlunar had an MC at 21434' (655' Scorpio in longitude).

It had it's Uranus on the IC and it's Pluto on the Asc.

All of the following aspects are from eclipse points to the progressed Canlunar and were measured in right ascension.

It had Pluto from the January 5th solar eclipse on it's Asc.

It had the January 21st total lunar eclipse square the MC (within 130' of RA) and eclipse Pluto on the Asc.

Saturn and Pluto from the July 2nd total solar eclipse straddled the progressed Canlunar's Asc (their midpoint was on it), it's Mars square to the progressed Canlunar's MC and and it's Uranus on it's IC.

The July 16th lunar eclipse was square to the progressed Canlunar's MC (within 240' of RA), it's Saturn and Pluto straddling the Asc and it's Uranus on the IC.
What meaning do you ascribe to a planet on the I.C.?
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  #2062  
Unread 09-08-2019, 06:58 PM
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

consider........
Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn all reflect the light from the Sun

That's of major importance when one considers Basic Horary principles

- which, for example, -

require 'collection of light' as well as 'translation of light'

which are not possible unless visible heavenly bodies reflect light of the sun


Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn are clearly seen in night skies
because they CLEARLY STRONGLY REFLECT the light of the sun
to the extent that they are clearly seen with vision unaided by artificial aids of any kind
.


distant dwarf planet pluto, orbiting our Sun,
is too remote from our sun
to reflect the light of the Sun with sufficient strength
to render pluto visible from a geocentric perspective.


Moon STRONGLY reflects light of the Sun

i.e.

at night
when Sun is below the horizon and Moon is above the horizon
then Moonlight is sufficiently bright to illuminate the scene and also cast a shadow.
REMOTE DWARF PLANET PLUTO CANNOT DO THAT
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  #2063  
Unread 09-08-2019, 07:59 PM
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by emily23 View Post

Asteroids are not planets,
I don't use them at all,
there's thousands of the buggers,
a tarot deck is simpler than that lot
and have you seen a chart with a tonne of asteroids...
migraine material.....
lets say Pluto is akin to an asteroid,

Exactly
However modern astrologer Caprising disagrees with you

i.e.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caprising View Post

I try them out through reading charts for people, cause and effect.
Of course I also watch my own chart
to see if any asteroids present a repeatable pattern

when they become dignified through progressions and transits.
Also it's good to compare notes with others via the web.
Obviously a half dozen Asteroids is enough to start with,
there is no need to study thousands of them at this point in time.
so the question is obviously - where's the cut-off point?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddity View Post

There are fifty or more Kuiper Belt objects (that's what Pluto technically is), and literally millions of asteroids out there.

Just because it's in the solar system doesn't mean you have to use it.

Where's the cutoff point? It's not obvious.
What is obvious is that the cutoff point varies
for example:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post

I use the following asteroids for love and relationship:

Erato, Amor, Bienor, Bosque Alegre, Compassion, Amanda, Frigga, Klyria, Medea, Rousseau, Summa, Valentine, Anteros, Hathor, Jason, Moraes, Peirithoos, Pocahintas, Sidi, Ubasti, Sappho, Amicitia, Patroclus, Cupido, Medusa, Hephaistos, Demeter, Hera, Thereus, Valentine, Nessus,
Ariadne, Chariklo, Close, Rhoda, Damocles

Does anyone use others not here, and what do they mean?
Zarathu
Bina commented on the vast numbers of love and relationship asteroids
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bina View Post

Wow- that's a lot of asteroids in your list!

I sometimes look at Psyche and Eros..
But was dismissed with the response:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post

No its a small number. I regularly use 700 of them.
Clearly then some modern astrologers are able to easily 'regularly use 700 asteroids'
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  #2064  
Unread 09-09-2019, 10:56 AM
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by emily23 View Post

Asteroids are not planets, I don't use them at all, there's thousands

of the buggers, a tarot deck is simpler than that lot

and have you seen a chart with a tonne of asteroids...migraine material
.....lets say Pluto is akin to an asteroid, what about Neptune and Uranus?

Also was there any level of this apoplexy towards Pluto BEFORE astronomers declared it a dwarf planet (note, still a planet)
............

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddity View Post


As far as I can see, Pluto is an astrological planet because modern astrologers use it.

PTV says that the ancients used the outer planets, including Pluto, up until 12,500 BCE, and cites Edgar Cayce's channelled material, the channelled material of a woman psychic PTV knows personally, and the Vedas (but no specific passage) as evidence. At least there's somewhere to look in the public record even if you disagree with his theory, so thank you for giving some pointers in the direction, PTV.

Muchacho says that history is suspect based on his reading of chronological theory by a Russian mathematician, Anatole Fomenko, and that in reality, traditional astrology is a new-ish invention, and the meanings for the traditional planets were cribbed from modern astrology and the outer planets. Muchacho cites intuition as his source. That really can't be referenced.

A number of people say that modern astrologers have extensively researched Pluto, and Caprising says that he (or she) has researched it in his own work. Waybread cites Rob Hand's text, Planets in Transit. Rob himself has since recanted that text, as he discovered that in his own practice transits mostly didn't work, and that the language of modern astrology is so vague it's difficult to tell what's indicative astrologically when something is happening.

Waybread also says that Pluto 'works' as a house cusp ruler, but in horary astrology she uses Mars as the ruler of Scorpio.

Your reporter, Odd, has a thing for language, and would emphasise what Rob says about the imprecision of language in modern astrology because he believes that astrology is a shared human endeavour, and it's important to be able to use language to share it.

A good number of posters use Pluto because they say they feel it in their charts. Nobody has said what Pluto feels like, though, and several people have said that you must intuit that. This is problematic on a number of levels, to me at least.

Several people have noted that modern astrology is a psychic tool and not a science. If this is true, it certainly gives more latitude to do what you want. It also contributes to the problem (as I see it) of not being able to define astrological terms, like....planet.

One poster says Pluto is responsible for metaphorical death, but not actual death, since it rules transformation, another says it rules death proper, one says it rules notoriety, another says it rules wealth. Psychological suppression, child abuse and pornography, as well as eruptions, are given to Pluto by at least a couple of posters. The word 'depth' gets used a lot in connection with Pluto as most posters seem to feel there is a connection there, though it remains unexplained. All of these things can be accounted for using the traditional planets, though, so - why Pluto?

I really think it comes down to 'because I use it'. And you can if you want to. But you can certainly read a chart without it, too.

I know I'm biased, as is everybody, but I think this is pretty much what it comes down to, and I have tried to be fair. If I have grossly misrepresented you - please yell.
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  #2065  
Unread 09-09-2019, 06:44 PM
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by emily23 View Post

re Pluto you don't seem to know what is going on



Why not just let astrologers do what they want to do


....there is no code is there?
IE as to what factors you want to use
...hopefully one day there will be university courses in the subject
...then again if the uppers in the subject argue like children
what hope is there of restoring the honour and glory
to a wonderful subject
...seems to go along the lines of many scientists bickering like toddlers
when all along I though they were in it all for the same reasons
My Jupiter sag trine Uranus trine is severely disappointed lol
..........



Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddity View Post

No, there isn't a code, and
if this thread is any indication, astrologers are doing exactly what they want.

There are university courses in astrology, btw.

But one of the things that will prevent it from becoming a serious subject is
- everyone is doing what they want.

And that leads to any number of subjective interpretations, like 'it's a planet
because I use it/I said so'
or the myriad things Pluto (and the other outers)
are said to signify, when

those things are already signified by the classical planets.

You can't run a university course on astrology by intuition, it's
an intensely personal thing, it's often wrong
- and as has been brought up on this thread, it

cannot be communicated to many of us.
If you're a deconstructionist, I suppose this can work, and
astrology can continue to be trivialised.

If, like me, you find the deconstructionists seriously lacking, then
there are problems with this whole idea.
On a personal level, I'm also a little bit scared of what could happen
if astrology was completely legitimised, because I know what it can do, and
I know what people have asked me to do with it.
But yes, I get tired of being thought a loon, too, because
'educated people aren't supposed to believe that'.
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Unread 09-09-2019, 10:06 PM
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by muchacho View Post

Don't forget Mars and Jupiter!
They all haven't fully cleared their orbits yet.

which is incorrect because

On the contrary
Along with its moons, Jupiter's gravitational field
CONTROLS NUMEROUS ASTEROIDS

that have settled into the regions of the Lagrangian points
preceding and following Jupiter in its orbit around the Sun.


These are known as the Trojan asteroids, and are divided into Greek and Trojan "camps"
to commemorate the Iliad.





This diagram shows the Trojan asteroids in Jupiter's orbit, as well as the main asteroid belt
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  #2067  
Unread 09-09-2019, 10:07 PM
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRESCHA View Post

Pluto rules death. Nobody gets a Pluto return!

I would like to ask you what would you be doing on your Pluto return day?
given that you just stated no-one experiences an 'astrological dwarf planet pluto return'
then that comment makes no sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRESCHA View Post

As for the credible evidence, I am yet to meet a Mo90Pl person who does not feel at some point that their mother is a phyton,
no matter the rest of the chart...
mind you, that story could go on and on and on...
And it certainly is a potentially rich modern astrological seam
since there are at least 56 objects in the Kupier Belt similar if not identical with 'dwarf astrological planet pluto'
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRESCHA View Post

You just wait, this Pl90Ur will eventually result in people uploading their consciousness to a super computer of some kind
to live forever ahahahahaha
Clearly you are unaware that this aim is nothing new and is as old as the hills
and is doomed simply because it is dependent on 'a super computer of some kind that lives forever'
good luck with building one of those

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRESCHA View Post

Here it is
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRESCHA
Jupiter never cleared its orbit either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter_trojan
nor has Mars.



you have already responded to it too.

But let's not play trial, OK?
interesting that you would not quote your comment until I quoted muchacho's comment
you simply echoed muchacho's comment
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRESCHA View Post

Just because I mentioned a super computer, does not mean I like it and/or want anyone to build one.

So, clearly, we believe that not only those that come back soon are planets.
Maybe we should make a thread about Pluto returns and what happens when Pluto hits certain places.
For instance, Charles Darwin and Galileo share the same Pluto degree.


I already addressed the rest of your post before.
You are welcome to make any number of threads of your choice
the topic of this thread is whether or not dwarf planet pluto is 'an astrological dwarf planet or not'
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caprising View Post

Modern astrologers studied Pluto before deciding what (if any) effect it has,
there is a consensus and Pluto is well entrenched into modern astrology despite what you want to see.
Modern astrologers have not had time to study even ONE complete orbit
of 'dwarf astrological planet' pluto
around the sun
because that takes 248 years


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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post

Once more, with feeling:
The 2006 IAU designation is irrelevant to traditional astrologers who don't use Pluto anyway. Before or after, it makes no difference.

The IAU designation is irrelevant to modern astrologers who found no change in Pluto's effectiveness before or after the IAU designation.
Modern astrologers agreed with IAU designation when pluto was a planet
Modern astrologers disagreed with IAU designation when pluto was demoted to dwarf planetary status


Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post

Astronomy is not astrology. Really, it's that simple.
Modern astrologers agree with astronomy when it suits them. 'Really it's that simple'
Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post

Very disingenuous. Count up all your posts on this thread and your Pluto cartoon thread.
Count up everyone else's posts on this thread and your Pluto cartoon thread. Who tops the lists-- by a country mile?

If you want to spend your time obsessively counting posts on this thread and other threads then that's your choice

In any event it's unsurprising I comment on this thead
I'm the OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post

Pluto is about suppressed facts that one doesn't like to face.
Is that all?
Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post

We moderns like studying astrological Pluto. We use it. Deal With It.
By all means continue to do so
Not all astrologers use 'dwarf astrological planets'
'Deal with it'

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post

And please, your history argument is one such chestnut.
You read history and biographies? We read history and biographies.
We can see how Pluto operated in the past, easily.
How dwarf planet pluto allegedly 'operated in the past' is a matter of opinion
Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post

Traditional astrologers developed the concept of the Great Year,
even though none of them would live a fraction of its 24,000 cycle.

This is why I think you're obsessive.
We've answered your same old arguments over and over again.
You won't listen to any argument that supports modern astrology.
The same old arguments you yourself post
have been refuted multiple times
yet you keep repeating them
by your definition then
you think you yourself are obsessive
Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post

Given how little you've studied it,
I guess all you can do to keep your beliefs about modern astrology is to repeat your same old, same old.
Another baseless assumption
that you keep repeating in the same old, same old way

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post

The only reason I don't give up in disgust
is because I don't want a fledgling astrologer to read the kind of misinterpretations
some of the trads post about modern astrology and think that they're correct.

If you really believe in a "live and let live" astrology, I suggest you do that.
So you think that your arguments are the sole arguments for 'fledgling astrologers' to consider
and that any arguments to the contrary must be 'misreperesentations'
however
the fact is
'fledgling astrologers' are quite capable of forming their own opinion
by considering all the pros and cons

so do continue posting your same old, same old arguments
and they shall be refuted
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

I sympathize with your trip down memory lane, JA. Reigniting old arguments and responding to ghostly vestiges of long gone posters is a creative way to engage with the nostalgia, in my opinion.
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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

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Re: Is Pluto an astrological planet?

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