Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > General Astrology > Traditional Astrology

Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 10-19-2018, 06:04 PM
HoldOrFold's Avatar
HoldOrFold HoldOrFold is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 460
The concept of transiting planets being influenced by their natal counterpart

I've heard this idea several times from people here and there, but haven't been able to find any resources on it. These people are often traditional leaning and I thought I'd get a more quality response on this board.

The concept I'm referring to is the idea that the condition of a natal planet will affect the quality of transits from that planet when in transit, even if it's not directly aspecting the natal planet during the transit.

So let's say someone has Venus in Scorpio in the 12th or something like that. The idea is that pretty much every transit to any natal planet or point will be weaker, or possibly even problematic, in the native's life, regardless of if natal Venus is involved in the transit directly through aspect or what have you.

I've even heard people take it a step further and say that in the above scenario, 12th house affairs, and the affairs ruled by the houses natal Venus rules, will also be triggered with any transit *from* Venus to any planet. So let's say transiting Venus conjuncts natal Sun in the 5th, Sun rules say the 1st, they're saying that 12th house affairs (and also the houses ruled by Venus) will also be triggered in tandem because Venus natally is in the 12th etc. This last part seems a bit far fetched to me though, wondering if it has any basis.

Anyone use this in practice and is there any resources on this concept?

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Unread 10-19-2018, 06:38 PM
Oddity's Avatar
Oddity Oddity is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,982
Re: The concept of transiting planets being influenced by their natal counterpart

You won't notice most transits at all. Maybe a mood change for a couple of hours.

Traditional astrology doesn't hold that all planets are 'on' all the time. Life would be far too crazy that way.

If you're in a profected year Venus, or if it's strongly highlighted in your solar return, then transits to a detrimented Venus may indeed be kind of ****** because of the planetary condition in the natal chart - assuming there's some relation between the natal planet and the transiting planet to begin with, e.g., in the natal or in the SR, Saturn is opposite Venus.

In other words, you need something to activate the natal planet in the natal chart or in the solar return chart, and also in the current time before a transit it's going to have much effect.

I'm not sure that's what you're asking, though.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Oddity For This Useful Post:
HoldOrFold (10-20-2018), JUPITERASC (10-20-2018), Rhys (10-20-2018), SunConjunctUranus (01-08-2019)
  #3  
Unread 10-19-2018, 07:10 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rural Idaho
Posts: 3,527
A natal planet retains its natal condition for life. Trsnsits of a planet are extensions over time of the planet's natal position and meaning. The transiting planet picks up experience through the years but is always, at root, what it always was. It carries its own nature with it, and this affects the quality of the trsnsit, its manner of manifestation.

Last edited by greybeard; 10-19-2018 at 07:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to greybeard For This Useful Post:
HoldOrFold (10-20-2018)
  #4  
Unread 10-19-2018, 07:31 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,270
Re: The concept of transiting planets being influenced by their natal counterpart

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoldOrFold View Post
I've heard this idea several times from people here and there, but haven't been able to find any resources on it. These people are often traditional leaning and I thought I'd get a more quality response on this board.

The concept I'm referring to is the idea that the condition of a natal planet will affect the quality of transits from that planet when in transit, even if it's not directly aspecting the natal planet during the transit.

So let's say someone has Venus in Scorpio in the 12th or something like that. The idea is that pretty much every transit to any natal planet or point will be weaker, or possibly even problematic, in the native's life, regardless of if natal Venus is involved in the transit directly through aspect or what have you.

I've even heard people take it a step further and say that in the above scenario, 12th house affairs, and the affairs ruled by the houses natal Venus rules, will also be triggered with any transit *from* Venus to any planet. So let's say transiting Venus conjuncts natal Sun in the 5th, Sun rules say the 1st, they're saying that 12th house affairs (and also the houses ruled by Venus) will also be triggered in tandem because Venus natally is in the 12th etc. This last part seems a bit far fetched to me though, wondering if it has any basis.

Anyone use this in practice and is there any resources on this concept?
In traditional astrology, every judgement of transit, revolution or any system has to be related to the nativity. If a transit shows marriage, let us say Jupiter and Venus in the seventh house of Libra (provided other factors like primary directions and returns concur), but if the nativity shows Venus, the ruler of VII extremely afflicted by Saturn, then it would deny marriage, and therefore no transit, return or progression would ever change that.

Of course, since the transits of Venus are related to relationships, celebrations and associations, then if Venus is placed in the XII at the nativity, it would naturally be less fortunate in the effects for the nativity at any time, and although that does not necessarily mean it is the same the whole time, it does have an effect.

Astrology is the study of the beginning. The transits never indicate anything contrary to the beginning.

Here is an example of the principles from my thread:
Quote:
Saturn onto Mars makes those who are discouraged and not eager. It also gathers up enemies and troubles, and it makes sickness with Mercury. If they are operative <angular or succedent> and beheld by benefics, most of the trouble will be dissipated.
Quote:
Jupiter onto Mars releases one from oppression, brings friendship with great persons, profits and acquisitions. If the nativity is military, it signifies victories in campaigns and advancement in rank, and it brings governorship for the distinguished. If the stars are diametrical, it is indicative of reversals and penalties.
Quote:
Moon onto Moon makes thoughts rise to the surface. If operative and with benefic at the nativity, it provides good cheer.
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...d.php?t=121677

The last one is from Dorotheus and Valens. I used various Hellenistic texts and a bit of my additions for those delineations of whole sign transits, where you don't pay attention to the degree (honestly those almost never work out in my experience). So you see if benefic occupies the sign of the Moon at the nativity, those 2.5 days are even better, of course relative to the higher chronocrators.

Last edited by petosiris; 10-19-2018 at 07:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
HoldOrFold (10-20-2018), JUPITERASC (10-20-2018), Rhys (10-20-2018), waybread (10-19-2018)
  #5  
Unread 10-19-2018, 07:38 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rural Idaho
Posts: 3,527
It is axiomatic in modern science that "the final outcome of anything is dependent upon initial conditions."
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to greybeard For This Useful Post:
HoldOrFold (10-20-2018)
  #6  
Unread 10-19-2018, 10:38 PM
waybread's Avatar
waybread waybread is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: A class M planet near you
Posts: 14,923
Re: The concept of transiting planets being influenced by their natal counterpart

In general, I agree with Petosiris (Big shockeroo for you there, Mr. P!)

With the caveat that charts often contain mitigating factors, and that you do move along your basic Road Map Of Life through progressions and other time-related horoscopes.

For example, a nasty opposition might be mitigated by a third planet that trines one and sextiles the other planet.

I have the wretched Mars- Saturn opposition in my chart; and despite my share of regrets and disappointments in life, I'd have to say that it has turned out pretty well. How can this be? My feeling is that my sun at 23 Aquarius (tropical) conjuncts the fixed star Sadalsud, which is supposed to be a fortunate star.

Finally, traditional astrology is divided between the fatalists (like the Greek Stoics) and those who thought people had some "free will," like the Christians. Each planet, sign, and house does have multiple interpretations that are consistent with its core meanings, which I think gives us some (but not infinite) flexibility.

HoldorFold, I can't think of where I would have read this either, but I do think the natal chart is analogous to prescription eyeglasses through which we view the world. If our natal Venus is in a debilitated state, like today's Venus retrograde in Scorpio, that probably affects how we view Venusian matters like love. We view love through those eyeglasses; possibly through feelings of jealousy. But as a fixed sign, Scorpio is also capable of tremendous steadfastness; which may prove to be valuable when the right person comes along.
__________________
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to waybread For This Useful Post:
HoldOrFold (10-20-2018), Rhys (10-20-2018)
  #7  
Unread 10-19-2018, 11:29 PM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dairyland
Posts: 2,033
Re: The concept of transiting planets being influenced by their natal counterpart

HoldOrFold, I am not a traditional astrologer but occasionally pop my head around the door of this section of the board if there is a title that catches my interest.

I just want to say that the concepts you presented in your initial post were part of (advanced) studying when I was learning astrology in The Netherlands. I adhere to them to this day.
The plotting of transits to the natal positions on a graph produced excellent timing of 'events', and regular homework was to study any personal effect of the personal planets, especially the Moon effect. Quite amazing.

In chapter 2 'Working With Transits' of her book 'Predictive Astrology (aka The Eagle and The Lark), Bernadette Brady gives a detailed explanation with diagram graphs and charts of the methodology you describe above.
You might find it helpful.

Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Frisiangal For This Useful Post:
HoldOrFold (10-20-2018), waybread (10-20-2018)
  #8  
Unread 10-20-2018, 11:04 AM
HoldOrFold's Avatar
HoldOrFold HoldOrFold is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 460
Re: The concept of transiting planets being influenced by their natal counterpart

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
A natal planet retains its natal condition for life. Trsnsits of a planet are extensions over time of the planet's natal position and meaning. The transiting planet picks up experience through the years but is always, at root, what it always was. It carries its own nature with it, and this affects the quality of the trsnsit, its manner of manifestation.
Thanks, the question arised for me when I saw this response on a different form in regards to OP wondering what would happen when transiting Jupiter conjoins his natal Ascendant. The resonse was in part:

Quote:
It depends almost entirely on Jupiter's placement and dignity in your natal chart. What house cusp or cusps does it rule? Those aspects of your life will be highlighted during this transit.
I assume then from this perspective, the houses ruled by the planet are considered triggered when the transiting version of that planet aspects *any* point or planet in the chart. This is quite a shift from what I've been practicing so far, which is that the houses are only activated when the ruler is directly aspected or something transiting the house etc.

Would you say therefore this implies that Leo Ascendants, in general statistical sense with all things being equal, would have a higher incidence of 12th house influences in their daily lives compared to other Ascendant signs? As the Moon would rule their 12th and since the Moon is the fastest moving planet, it will aspect several points/planets in transit every day of the natives life, and therefore trigger the 12th several times a day, every day.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread 10-20-2018, 11:48 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,270
Re: The concept of transiting planets being influenced by their natal counterpart

I've never seen or heard of any traditional astrologer using transits like that. Other time lord systems that have more equal periods might be better suited for finding 12th house events. As Oddity mentioned, the planets are not ''on'' all the time.

According to Claudius Ptolemy, primary directions have the greater authority to realize events, profections cooperate or deter, and transits only help by increase or decrease in the event.

Transits are best used with their natural significations and relative to their speed - i.e. the transits of Saturn (which take 2 1/2 years) are more important than those of Jupiter (1 year), and those of Jupiter than Mars, Sun, Venus, Mercury (a month or few), and those are more important than that of the Moon (2 1/3), by virtue of the higher stars taking longer orbits. According to Schoener, primary directions precede those, and profections are equal to Jupiter (they have similar 12 year cycle), only preceded by Saturn, the rest are less impactful.

Quote:
As the Moon would rule their 12th and since the Moon is the fastest moving planet, it will aspect several points/planets in transit every day of the natives life, and therefore trigger the 12th several times a day, every day.
The particular always falls under the general. If you make a hierarchal system, you can avoid such theoretical flaws.

Last edited by petosiris; 10-20-2018 at 12:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
HoldOrFold (10-20-2018), JUPITERASC (10-20-2018), Rhys (10-20-2018)
  #10  
Unread 10-20-2018, 04:44 PM
HoldOrFold's Avatar
HoldOrFold HoldOrFold is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 460
Re: The concept of transiting planets being influenced by their natal counterpart

Thanks for your response,

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
I've never seen or heard of any traditional astrologer using transits like that. Other time lord systems that have more equal periods might be better suited for finding 12th house events. As Oddity mentioned, the planets are not ''on'' all the time.

According to Claudius Ptolemy, primary directions have the greater authority to realize events, profections cooperate or deter, and transits only help by increase or decrease in the event.
I'm not necessarily narrowing the focus to big events, but just trying to understand the general principle behind a transiting planet potentially triggering events (potentially very minor events mind you) related to the house(s) it's natal counterpart rules in the chart.

To give you an idea of where I'm coming from, here is an example of a minor event Curtis Manwaring describes on his site for Mercury conjunct Saturn where Saturn rules the 6th:

"If lord of the 6th, you may have to concentrate more carefully in the office. Paperwork becomes more tedious. A serious mood pervades the office environment." [http://www.astrology-x-files.com/tra...j-saturn.html]

Or Venus trine Mercury where Mercury rules the 3rd:

"If lord of the 3rd, you are likely to be caught up in pleasant conversation with neighbors and relatives. You may receive invitations to social events. Relationships with siblings and relatives should be good." [http://www.astrology-x-files.com/tra...j-saturn.html]

These are just some probabilities/possibilities of minor day to day manifestations of transits. I feel the gist of these descriptions can hold up without having to go too deep into profections or primary directions etc.

So what I'm really wondering is if the significations of the houses the transiting planet rules in the natal chart would also come into play in the above transits (however minor that may be)?

Last edited by HoldOrFold; 10-20-2018 at 04:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Unread 10-20-2018, 05:44 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,270
Re: The concept of transiting planets being influenced by their natal counterpart

Quote:
These are just some probabilities/possibilities of minor day to day manifestations of transits. I feel the gist of these descriptions can hold up without having to go too deep into profections or primary directions etc.
I am not sure about that - transiting Mercury onto Saturn is shown as:
Quote:
If lord of the 7th, you may have an important talk with your mate about serious or long range issues. On occasion this can signify divorce or a separation, but this aspect alone will not cause that. - http://www.astrology-x-files.com/tra...cj-saturn.html
There are many people not having relationships with that transit and rulership because of the ''heimarmeme'' - http://www.astrology-x-files.com/transits/.

Quote:
So what I'm really wondering is if the significations of the houses the transiting planet rules in the natal chart would also come into play in the above transits (however minor that may be)?
Theoretically yes, but in my opinion other factors are more important to consider before those. Directions and profections are higher than transits, and the foundation of the nativity is higher than those: ''If the basis of the nativity is found to be characteristic of one living an inactive, isolated life, varied and surprising activities during the transmission of the chronocratorships or in the configuring of transits should not be forecast.'' - https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt...s%20entire.pdf

I am sorry if that is not the answer you are looking for, but transits are generally not seen as self-sustaining tool to prediction in traditional astrology. In particular, those of the planets below the sphere of Jupiter occur pretty frequently to warrant an emphasis.

Last edited by petosiris; 10-20-2018 at 06:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (10-23-2018)
  #12  
Unread 10-20-2018, 09:58 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rural Idaho
Posts: 3,527
Transits of personal planets seldom bring events. The heavy bodies often do.

If you want to study transits watch Saturn.

Generally speaking, the effects of a given transit manifest in multiple ways simultaneously. Most aspects will generate events that involve several houses.

Last edited by greybeard; 10-20-2018 at 10:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Unread 10-21-2018, 04:29 AM
waybread's Avatar
waybread waybread is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: A class M planet near you
Posts: 14,923
Re: The concept of transiting planets being influenced by their natal counterpart

HoldorFold, my experience is that your natal planetary placements indicate how you experience their respective areas of life. They do color how you understand phenomena that fall under their rulerships, as well as how a given transit shows up for you, to a degree.

But lets take an example of someone with Aquarius on the cusp of the 5th house, and the ruler of the 5th, Saturn, in Leo in the 11th. I don't think a Saturn transit through, say, your 5th house activates the 11th house particularly. It activates the 5th house. The exception would be transiting Saturn aspecting its natal position, such as an opposition to its natal position.

Maybe Curtis has more experience than I do with bigger ripple effects from transits.
__________________
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Unread 10-21-2018, 05:46 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,270
Re: The concept of transiting planets being influenced by their natal counterpart

It is perhaps worth noting here that most of the Hellenistic texts give delineations only for whole sign transit conjunctions, with just a few notable exceptions. It is clear however, that the sextile, square, trine and opposition are vastly underplayed in that tradition.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (10-23-2018)
  #15  
Unread 10-22-2018, 02:41 PM
HoldOrFold's Avatar
HoldOrFold HoldOrFold is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 460
Re: The concept of transiting planets being influenced by their natal counterpart

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
HoldorFold, my experience is that your natal planetary placements indicate how you experience their respective areas of life. They do color how you understand phenomena that fall under their rulerships, as well as how a given transit shows up for you, to a degree.

But lets take an example of someone with Aquarius on the cusp of the 5th house, and the ruler of the 5th, Saturn, in Leo in the 11th. I don't think a Saturn transit through, say, your 5th house activates the 11th house particularly. It activates the 5th house. The exception would be transiting Saturn aspecting its natal position, such as an opposition to its natal position.

Maybe Curtis has more experience than I do with bigger ripple effects from transits.
Yeah, this is how I've been practicing so far. In that case, the 11th would simply be activated by transits through the 11th, or to the ruler of the 11th, i.e. the Sun, and in a more minor way with transits directly to Saturn.

But the concept which the post was about is the idea that any transits from Saturn to any planet would potentially activate the 5th, which honestly doesn't intuitively seem right. But if the condition of the natal planet influences the transiting version of that planet then it logically should follow that this is the case on some level. I might write Curtis actually to see what he thinks of it.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Unread 10-22-2018, 07:13 PM
waybread's Avatar
waybread waybread is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: A class M planet near you
Posts: 14,923
Re: The concept of transiting planets being influenced by their natal counterpart

Good idea. Also, if you check back on your own life, you could see how things played out with big transits. My feeling is that it's too easy to turn astrology into an anything/everything kind of proposition, so being more specific and focused is a good idea.
__________________
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to waybread For This Useful Post:
HoldOrFold (10-22-2018)
  #17  
Unread 10-22-2018, 09:19 PM
Senecar's Avatar
Senecar Senecar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: 9th house
Posts: 783
Re: The concept of transiting planets being influenced by their natal counterpart

Do we still have our free will? or life is all mapped out, and dragged by astrological transits and the energies of stars?
__________________
http://forum93.freeforums.net
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Unread 10-22-2018, 09:35 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,270
Re: The concept of transiting planets being influenced by their natal counterpart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senecar View Post
Do we still have our free will? or life is all mapped out, and dragged by astrological transits and the energies of stars?
O, my son, we have all been led by fate here.

Quote:
''It is better for men, as far as possible, to put stiff-necked pride from their minds and to avoid boldness, to strip themselves bare and to surrender themselves to reason. For no one is free; we all are slaves of fate and if we follow her voluntarily, we will live undisturbed and without grief as a whole, having trained our minds to be confident. If someone adopts a false cast of mind and attributes the possibility of acting to himself, he will be refuted by the impossibility of his acting and will be a laughing-stock. Then he will remember these words of the tragic Euripides:
Lead me, O Zeus, and you, O Fate,
Wherever you have assigned me to go.
I will follow even if I hesitate. If I did not wish,
Having become base, I will suffer this anyway
'' - Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt...s%20entire.pdf

''But as for Fate, I think that no man has yet escaped it'' <Iliad 6.488>

Last edited by petosiris; 10-22-2018 at 09:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (10-23-2018)
  #19  
Unread 10-22-2018, 10:39 PM
david starling david starling is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Yes
Posts: 23,021
Smile Re: The concept of transiting planets being influenced by their natal counterpart

If you don't see it coming, you won't know what to do when it gets there.
But, if there's nothing you can do anyway, it doesn't matter.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Unread 10-22-2018, 10:53 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,270
Re: The concept of transiting planets being influenced by their natal counterpart

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
If you don't see it coming, you won't know what to do when it gets there.
But, if there's nothing you can do anyway, it doesn't matter.
This paradox, that can be traced back to Cicero ''And yet, if Fate had willed it, he would not have escaped that calamity; and vice versa. Hence, I repeat, what is the good of divination?'' - http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...atione/2*.html is easily refuted.

The simple counter-argument is that fate has already preordained those who will gain immortal foreknowledge of it, and who will put it to good use.

Last edited by petosiris; 10-22-2018 at 10:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (10-23-2018)
  #21  
Unread 10-23-2018, 02:13 AM
waybread's Avatar
waybread waybread is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: A class M planet near you
Posts: 14,923
Re: The concept of transiting planets being influenced by their natal counterpart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senecar View Post
Do we still have our free will? or life is all mapped out, and dragged by astrological transits and the energies of stars?
Don't you think it's a bit of both?
__________________
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Unread 10-23-2018, 03:04 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,270
Re: The concept of transiting planets being influenced by their natal counterpart

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Don't you think it's a bit of both?
Astrology was synonymous with fate in the Hellenistic period. When the early Church Fathers wrote texts against fate, almost all of their texts are an attack on astrology. Chris Brennan explains that as well in his book. If everything occurs through free will, then astrology is useless.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (10-23-2018)
  #23  
Unread 10-23-2018, 04:05 PM
Senecar's Avatar
Senecar Senecar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: 9th house
Posts: 783
Re: The concept of transiting planets being influenced by their natal counterpart

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Don't you think it's a bit of both?
The two are utterly opposite to each other, if you see one is working, then logically cannot accept the other.

It has to be one or the other.
__________________
http://forum93.freeforums.net
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Unread 10-23-2018, 04:06 PM
Senecar's Avatar
Senecar Senecar is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: 9th house
Posts: 783
Re: The concept of transiting planets being influenced by their natal counterpart

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Astrology was synonymous with fate in the Hellenistic period. When the early Church Fathers wrote texts against fate, almost all of their texts are an attack on astrology. Chris Brennan explains that as well in his book. If everything occurs through free will, then astrology is useless.
Yes, this is logically correct. But if fate is all we have, why do we bother making effort for anything?

If fate is what governs the universe, there will be a lot of problems and questions in the world. For example, is it then justified to punish criminals? Because fate made them to commit crimes, surely then it is not their fault. It is fault of the fate?
__________________
http://forum93.freeforums.net

Last edited by Senecar; 10-23-2018 at 04:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Unread 10-23-2018, 04:16 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,270
Re: The concept of transiting planets being influenced by their natal counterpart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senecar View Post
Yes, this is logically correct. But if fate is all we have, why do we bother making effort for anything?
Let me quote myself from this thread.

Quote:
The simple counter-argument is that fate has already preordained those who will gain immortal foreknowledge of it, and who will put it to good use.
Quote:
If fate is what governs the universe, there will be a lot of problems and questions in the world. For example, is it then justified to punish criminals? Because fate made them to commit crimes, surely then it is not their fault. It is fault of the fate?
The Stoic were often asked this question. The person of his will is committing the crime, even if everything operates through fate. The Stoics never proposed the type of Russian fatalism that Nietzsche describes. Determinism does not mean everyone becomes an idiot or that he can't or should not to do anything. It is the acceptance of natural law and logos. You still have ethics and reason.

Last edited by petosiris; 10-23-2018 at 04:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (10-23-2018)
Reply

Tags
concept, counterpart, influenced, natal, planets, transiting

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 06:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.