Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > Welcome! > Recommendations

Recommendations Looking for advice and suggestions on books, websites, programs, professionals, organizations, or anything else related to astrology? Ask and share your opinions here.


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 03-22-2010, 10:01 PM
Earth Sign's Avatar
Earth Sign Earth Sign is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Tralfamadore
Posts: 340
Carl Payne Tobey's Correspondence Course

My favorite lesson in Astrology came from a Correspondence Course by an unfortunately forgotten Astrologer/Mathematician named Carl Payne Tobey. He taught Astrology as a science, and it was all mathematical. The course makes so much sense, and it's still interesting even though it was written in the 50's. His method is unique and almost no one else teaches what he knew. He rediscovered such things as the Secondary Ascendant, vital to the Secondary Chart.

He explains in his course how the signs work by describing them in terms of Individual/Family/Social Survival/Non-Survival(for some reason changed to the word "reform") Dynamic (Reactor/Guide). For example, Cancer is the Individual Survival Dynamic, across from it is Capricorn, the Individual Survival Dynamic Reactor. Many of his diagrams aren't included in this online version of the course, unfortunately.

Here is his course: http://www.bonniehill.net/pages.aux/...bey/index.html

If you're further interested in his other works, I highly recommend Astrology of Inner Space, here: http://www.amazon.com/Astrology-of-I...sr=8-1-catcorr

__________________
"I have never belonged to a church. To me, the only true religion and the only true science would have to be one and the same thing - a legitimate search for the truth."
My Natal Chart


Last edited by Earth Sign; 09-22-2011 at 09:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Earth Sign For This Useful Post:
byjove (11-11-2012), moonris3 (04-05-2017)
  #2  
Unread 01-09-2011, 04:38 AM
SecondaryChart SecondaryChart is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 5
Send a message via AIM to SecondaryChart
Re: Carl Payne Tobey's Correspondence Course

I knew Carl and took his Course back in my college days in Tucson. He is not *forgotten* and never will be while those of us who recognized his astonishing brilliance still live (and indeed we are introducing his work to *a few* of the young astrologers today.)

Within my knowledge, no other astrologer has ever come close to Carl's abstract thought and insight. Not one.

It IS a shame that, though he is not forgotten, it is true that greatly inferior and less creative minds have established fame for themselves among the less discriminating and less educated astrologers.

There is much material of his that is not commonly known to exist: personal letters, interpretations of planets in signs, and much more. Aside from the Secondary Chart (your mention of which prompted this user name ;-) we can mention, the Aspect Houses, Moon Wobbles, the Lunar Cycle, Pluto's rulership of Aries, the worthlessness of retrograde motion, and the importance of planetary nodes, as some of the most radical and important astrological discoveries of the 20th century.

Thank you so much for your post. The sheeple may not appreciate or even remember him, but he is not forgotten by those who have the vision to recognize his greatness.

Thank you!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to SecondaryChart For This Useful Post:
moonris3 (04-05-2017)
  #3  
Unread 01-11-2011, 04:05 AM
Earth Sign's Avatar
Earth Sign Earth Sign is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Tralfamadore
Posts: 340
Re: Carl Payne Tobey's Correspondence Course

Quote:
Originally Posted by SecondaryChart
I knew Carl and took his Course back in my college days in Tucson. He is not *forgotten* and never will be while those of us who recognized his astonishing brilliance still live (and indeed we are introducing his work to *a few* of the young astrologers today.)

Within my knowledge, no other astrologer has ever come close to Carl's abstract thought and insight. Not one.

It IS a shame that, though he is not forgotten, it is true that greatly inferior and less creative minds have established fame for themselves among the less discriminating and less educated astrologers.

There is much material of his that is not commonly known to exist: personal letters, interpretations of planets in signs, and much more. Aside from the Secondary Chart (your mention of which prompted this user name ;-) we can mention, the Aspect Houses, Moon Wobbles, the Lunar Cycle, Pluto's rulership of Aries, the worthlessness of retrograde motion, and the importance of planetary nodes, as some of the most radical and important astrological discoveries of the 20th century.

Thank you so much for your post. The sheeple may not appreciate or even remember him, but he is not forgotten by those who have the vision to recognize his greatness.

Thank you!
Thanks for your reply, SecondaryChart! I was beginning to think I'd never meet anyone who has studied Tobey's work. I hope you stick around here to preach about him, considering you were a student of his. I'm very much a beginner to his work and am still learning. I feel like I'm an inadequate torch-carrier for him, knowing as little as I do about it.

I was disappointed when I started to expand my knowledge of astrology and found that there is so little information about Tobey that is still out there. His revision of the houses from the Aries-Counterclockwise count to the Leo-Clockwise order doesn't seem to be recognized by many, or used by anyone. I've often wanted to start a thread about the houses, but my lack of experience and solid evidence in Tobey's favor has kept me from ever doing it.

By the way, what other astrologers or books on astrology have you found to be worthwhile? I've gotten a lot out of Grant Lewi's books, Heaven Knows What, and Astrology for the Millions, but I'm not sure what else to look for.

~

This is the first time I've been back to this forum in a couple months, at least. Luckily I got your message before very much time passed. Thanks for re-inspiring me to attempt to popularize Tobey's method.
__________________
"I have never belonged to a church. To me, the only true religion and the only true science would have to be one and the same thing - a legitimate search for the truth."
My Natal Chart

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Unread 01-12-2011, 02:51 PM
juicey J. juicey J. is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 655
Re: Carl Payne Tobey's Correspondence Course

Thanks for posting the link, some interesting stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Unread 09-22-2011, 03:28 PM
norrismccool norrismccool is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 9
Re: Carl Payne Tobey's Correspondence Course

Could someone please repost the link to Carl Payne Tobey's correspondence course?

Thank you,
norrismccool
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread 09-22-2011, 09:27 PM
Earth Sign's Avatar
Earth Sign Earth Sign is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Tralfamadore
Posts: 340
Re: Carl Payne Tobey's Correspondence Course

Sorry, I didn't realize it wore out. Here's the link:

http://www.bonniehill.net/pages.aux/...bey/index.html

I'll repost it in the original, too. Thanks for letting me know.
__________________
"I have never belonged to a church. To me, the only true religion and the only true science would have to be one and the same thing - a legitimate search for the truth."
My Natal Chart

Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Earth Sign For This Useful Post:
moonris3 (04-05-2017)
  #7  
Unread 09-23-2011, 12:01 AM
norrismccool norrismccool is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 9
Re: Carl Payne Tobey's Correspondence Course

Thank you so much. After years of study and not ever understanding any of it, Carl Payne Tobey makes sense.

norrismccool
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread 09-23-2011, 06:06 AM
07.Re's Avatar
07.Re 07.Re is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,088
Re: Carl Payne Tobey's Correspondence Course

That's a great link you've posted Earth Sign. I've fallen off the astrology wagon and need to get back on. Your link is the motivation I need
__________________
Fear is the one thing that stops people from living a great life, and collecting all the experience that they possibly can. And many of us build castles around us that we think will keep the threat out. All it does in reality is lock our potential in - Geoff Thompson
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread 09-23-2011, 06:16 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: los angeles california
Posts: 12,474
Re: Carl Payne Tobey's Correspondence Course

Tobey's argument relative to the zodiac (tropical zodiac) as being a projection of the Earth, is similar to that of Rouell (astroamerica.com) and I largely adhere to this concept (albeit in a more "subtle earth energy" sense), and perhaps this is the real difference (and a not mutually exclusive one either!) between our Western "tropical" zodiac of signs, and the sidereal constellational zodiac of Vedic (and Western Sidereal) astrological models...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Unread 10-20-2011, 01:31 PM
norrismccool norrismccool is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 9
Re: Carl Payne Tobey's Correspondence Course

Can someone tell me where to buy these Carl Payne Tobey's booklets? The Zodiac in the Raw; The Sun and the Inner Planets; and The Moon and the Lunar Nodes.

Thank you,
norrismccool
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Unread 10-20-2011, 03:11 PM
norrismccool norrismccool is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 9
Re: Carl Payne Tobey's Correspondence Course

I tried both, no joy.

Thank you,
norrismccool
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Unread 10-20-2011, 10:40 PM
Earth Sign's Avatar
Earth Sign Earth Sign is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Tralfamadore
Posts: 340
Re: Carl Payne Tobey's Correspondence Course

I, too, have been looking for Tobey's various booklets for some time, with no success. There is one book that might be promising, Carl Payne Tobey's Collected Works on Astrology, which I don't own.

I've not been able to find a source for it, except iTunes, and that's not an option for me. I would have sworn that I'd seen a website on which you could buy new copies of some of his books, including that one, but I can't find it now. They were all $25 on that site, which is why I didn't jump on it.

Here's the link for the iTunes book, in case you're interested.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/book/carl...02376093?mt=11
__________________
"I have never belonged to a church. To me, the only true religion and the only true science would have to be one and the same thing - a legitimate search for the truth."
My Natal Chart

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Unread 10-21-2011, 07:24 AM
norrismccool norrismccool is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 9
Re: Carl Payne Tobey's Correspondence Course

I think I have everything in CPT's Collected Works although not with that specific title nor in one collection. I don't think the three booklets are in it, and I'm beginning to wonder if he ever wrote them or only planned to write them.

Thank you for responding.

norrismccool
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Unread 10-22-2011, 01:34 AM
Earth Sign's Avatar
Earth Sign Earth Sign is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Tralfamadore
Posts: 340
Re: Carl Payne Tobey's Correspondence Course

It's possible that he never had those booklets officially published. I think he self-published some of his work, probably for educating his students, and left them there. Since then nobody has taken the trouble of digging them up and republishing them.

There are probably only a few copies in existence, and they would probably be expensive.
__________________
"I have never belonged to a church. To me, the only true religion and the only true science would have to be one and the same thing - a legitimate search for the truth."
My Natal Chart

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Unread 10-22-2011, 11:20 AM
norrismccool norrismccool is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 9
Re: Carl Payne Tobey's Correspondence Course

I've been in touch with people who knew him well, and they don't have the three booklets, either. That's why I wonder if they were not 'meant to do' pieces of writing. However, they were for sale in some of his books. It's a mystery.

Thank you for your response.

norrismccool
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Unread 10-22-2011, 10:04 PM
Raul Quintanilla Raul Quintanilla is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 13
Re: Carl Payne Tobey's Correspondence Course

Contact Miss Naomi Bennett to get books written by Mr Carl Payne Tobey. I know she is in Facebook and printed published several books of him. Good stuff.
__________________
Raul Quintanilla
~Don't read astrology books, read astrology charts

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Unread 10-22-2011, 10:22 PM
norrismccool norrismccool is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 9
Re: Carl Payne Tobey's Correspondence Course

Thank you, Raul; Ms. Bennett was the first person I asked.

norrismccool
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Unread 10-29-2011, 04:27 PM
norrismccool norrismccool is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 9
Re: Carl Payne Tobey's Correspondence Course

Sorry to bother you again, but I'm trying to locate Betty Baxter who (I was told) worked with Carl Payne Tobey. Does anyone have any ideas on how to contact her?

norrismccool
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Unread 11-06-2011, 08:36 PM
nbennett nbennett is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Austin Tx
Posts: 26
Re: Carl Payne Tobey's Correspondence Course

I was a student of Carl Payne Tobey in 1969. I sell his correspondence course and have published a new book "Collected Works of Carl Payne Tobey". I also reprinted his "Astrology of Inner Space". You can order these items at LearnAstrologyNow.com

I have also created a DVD seminar on the extension of these principles called "Sacred Geometry of Astrology" which is also available on the website.

Questions on his theories and techniques can be directed to me at naomibennett9@yahoo.com
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Unread 11-06-2011, 08:42 PM
nbennett nbennett is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Austin Tx
Posts: 26
Re: Carl Payne Tobey's Correspondence Course

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earth Sign View Post
I, too, have been looking for Tobey's various booklets for some time, with no success. There is one book that might be promising, Carl Payne Tobey's Collected Works on Astrology, which I don't own.

I've not been able to find a source for it, except iTunes, and that's not an option for me. I would have sworn that I'd seen a website on which you could buy new copies of some of his books, including that one, but I can't find it now. They were all $25 on that site, which is why I didn't jump on it.

Here's the link for the iTunes book, in case you're interested.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/book/carl...02376093?mt=11
I am the publisher for "Collected Works of Carl Payne Tobey". It can be purchased at my website LearnAstrologyNow.com. Write me at naomibennett9@yahoo.com iTunes sells the epub version of this book. Hardcopy can only be bought through me.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Unread 01-23-2012, 03:50 AM
MSO's Avatar
MSO MSO is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Currently retrograde.
Posts: 696
Send a message via AIM to MSO Send a message via Yahoo to MSO
Re: Carl Payne Tobey's Correspondence Course

This course is amazing. Everyone should read it.
__________________
Astrologer In Training
Whole Signs! Use it, love it, live it.
Always search for the truth and accept nothing less. Sometimes you're wrong, it happens. Just remember, your ego can be brushed aside easily, give it a try.
Sequestra says "he's quite nuts"
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Unread 01-23-2012, 06:36 PM
nbennett nbennett is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Austin Tx
Posts: 26
Re: Carl Payne Tobey's Correspondence Course

I meet CPT (1902-1980) and studied with him in 1969. Yes he was amazing and very original. He studied and analyzed techniques with a famous group of astrologers in NYC in the 1930's. He was the first to do statistical analysis. He was nationally known. I have kept his works alive and available to the astrological community so that his knowledge would not be lost. You can find more info at LearnAstrologyNow.com. I use his techniques of prediction on my YouTube videos at naomibennet360 channel if anyone is interested. I'm always surprised how many astrologers remember him.
He had Sag rising, looking for the truth with Uranus on the Asc.

I have taken all of this booklets and an older book of his and consolidated them into one book, The Collected Works of Carl Payne Tobey. I also sell his book, Astrology of Inner Space (exceptional), and his Correspondence Course. With 40+ years experience and research, I have a DVD course on the Sacred Geometry of Astrology (6 hours) where I confirm and did the research historically to verify his conclusions. They are all available at learnastrologynow.com. You can use PayPal to order. My email is naomibennett9@yahoo.com

Last edited by nbennett; 11-10-2012 at 12:23 PM. Reason: to update info to find CPT resources.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Unread 01-23-2012, 07:52 PM
Frank's Avatar
Frank Frank is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Posts: 736
Send a message via Yahoo to Frank
Re: Carl Payne Tobey's Correspondence Course

Quote:
Originally Posted by norrismccool View Post
Can someone tell me where to buy these Carl Payne Tobey's booklets? The Zodiac in the Raw; The Sun and the Inner Planets; and The Moon and the Lunar Nodes.

Thank you,
norrismccool
"Zodiac in the Raw" is part of this lot on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1953-CARL-PA...item5889e49dc2
__________________
"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." - Douglas Adams
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Unread 01-26-2012, 06:59 PM
SecondaryChart SecondaryChart is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 5
Send a message via AIM to SecondaryChart
Re: Carl Payne Tobey's Correspondence Course

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post
"Zodiac in the Raw" is part of this lot on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1953-CARL-PA...item5889e49dc2
Really not a bad price for the pamphlets for a bibliofile compared with what you might find on abe.com. But I think Naomi Benett has all of them (perhaps not Zodiac in the Raw - I'd have to check my copy of her book) in her collected writings.

I'd lay long odds that the inner planet booklets were just advertised and never written. I have so much of Carl's correspondance and articles, etc. gathered by a student of mine, Betty Baxter (who took my answer "No the 24 lessons is all htere is" and proved me wrong, ever so wrong!)

Truely, if there is a CPT expert posting here now it is Naomi who is a wonderful person and a great astrologer.

Best to all.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Unread 01-26-2012, 07:28 PM
Frank's Avatar
Frank Frank is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Posts: 736
Send a message via Yahoo to Frank
Re: Carl Payne Tobey's Correspondence Course

You might want to check with Michael Erlewine (who I used to work with at Matrix) since his Heart Center library has a rather large collection of astrology material. Usually, if it was published, he had it.
__________________
"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." - Douglas Adams
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
carl, correspondence, payne, tobey

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 06:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.