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  #76  
Unread 05-31-2020, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tikana View Post
You dont need to get 10th house involved.. Look at 2nd house.. All your answers are there.
Lord of asce is very debiliated + below the horizon and 2nd house.. look closer.
and look at lord of exalt and triplicity.
The 2nd house, he was paid to do it? Or just he enjoyed the power and control?

  #77  
Unread 05-31-2020, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
The 2nd house, he was paid to do it? Or just he enjoyed the power and control?

No..2nd house is self worth
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Unread 06-01-2020, 04:18 AM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tikana View Post
but this is a horary chart..

did the cop want to kill George Floyd
Some of us said this 8th ruled the victims. I didn't quite agree. My attached pages concerned what Houlding and Watters said about the horary & event 8th house.

I wanted to show that in her book, Deb Houlding carefully categorised what the 8th house rules in the below format:

In horary astrology... [see attached, nothing to do with victims]

In mundane astrology...

In lawsuits or conflicts...

In events: "In events concerning crimes the 8th rules the detectives, but in cases of murder, the victim."

(Here, she quoted Ivy Goldstein-Jacobson who quoted Watters as Jupiter pointed out.)


If we could apply this to horary, why the categorisation?

So Tikana we actually agree with each other. One or two bolded words in my previous reply confused you.

Additionally, as Ukpoohbear pointed out, this chart was cast in the first place because the Querent wasn't even sure if this was a murder. Killing a human =/= murder. There is doubt as to how narrow or board Houlding, Watters and Goldstein-Jacobson actually define murder, i.e. do the charges brought about have to be murder (with malice aforethought) instead of manslaughter for the case to qualify as a murder investigation?

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  #79  
Unread 06-01-2020, 07:30 AM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ameliaastrology View Post
Some of us said this 8th ruled the victims. I didn't quite agree. My attached pages concerned what Houlding and Watters said about the horary & event 8th house.

I wanted to show that in her book, Deb Houlding carefully categorised what the 8th house rules in the below format:

In horary astrology... [see attached, nothing to do with victims]

In mundane astrology...

In lawsuits or conflicts...

In events: "In events concerning crimes the 8th rules the detectives, but in cases of murder, the victim."

(Here, she quoted Ivy Goldstein-Jacobson who quoted Watters as Jupiter pointed out.)


If we could apply this to horary, why the categorisation?

So Tikana we actually agree with each other. One or two bolded words in my previous reply confused you.

Additionally, as Ukpoohbear pointed out, this chart was cast in the first place because the Querent wasn't even sure if this was a murder. Killing a human =/= murder. There is doubt as to how narrow or board Houlding, Watters and Goldstein-Jacobson actually define murder, i.e. do the charges brought about have to be murder (with malice aforethought) instead of manslaughter for the case to qualify as a murder investigation?

Amelia

the only person who brought up 8th house was Aqua3000 and she is going off event chart theory .. since this is not event chart, 8th house is not crucial.

sorry Ukpoohbear....
I will be blunt here.. I really really dont care who is sure or unsure of whatever querent is asking .... Let horary chart lead astrologer to the answer.
All i care is finding what the truth. What really happened to George Floyd.
Autopsy official from the state concluded "The report also said Floyd's underlying health conditions included coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease. It concluded that the underlying health conditions, combined with Chauvin's restraint and any possible intoxicants in Floyd's system, likely contributed to his death."https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/george-floyd-family-rejects-medical-examiner-findings-and-will-get-results-of-private-autopsy-monday

Arteries and heart are ruled by sun ... will this chart show this? NO

Monday we will know the private autopsy results


The querent didnt ask "How did he die" or "did the cop cause his death?"
All we have is "did the cop want to kill George Floyd".. my problem with this question is "WANT" clause ...
Notice Merc HATES Jup
last aspect from merc is conj with venus lord of 10th and 5th house.
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  #80  
Unread 06-01-2020, 07:48 AM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

I disagree that the chart is not showing the conditions of death. Ruler of 8th Moon is in Leo for a reason.

It’s related to the question, the cop did not care whether George lives or died, he cared about his own self and was power-hungry corrupt, and George died because of heart failure caused by restraint. This is shown by the moon leaving an opposition with the Moon in Leo.

Plus Tikana, you have previously mentioned Sun in the cop’s 6th meaning ‘pressure to perform,’ so you are answering outwith the question too.

Edit: but yes, I can see how the question has confused people, plus it's an emotive subject. It just looked to me like the cop was enjoying it and so I asked if he wanted to kill him but it seems he is a narcissist and had little regard to Floyd, which was probably obvious anyway, but still, it is a fascinating chart into the mind of the cop.

Last edited by Ukpoohbear; 06-01-2020 at 08:04 AM.
  #81  
Unread 06-01-2020, 08:32 AM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
I disagree that the chart is not showing the conditions of death. Ruler of 8th Moon is in Leo for a reason.

Itís related to the question, the cop did not care whether George lives or died, he cared about his own self and was power-hungry corrupt, and George died because of heart failure caused by restraint. This is shown by the moon leaving an opposition with the Moon in Leo.

Plus Tikana, you have previously mentioned Sun in the copís 6th meaning Ďpressure to perform,í so you are answering outwith the question too.

Edit: but yes, I can see how the question has confused people, plus it's an emotive subject. It just looked to me like the cop was enjoying it and so I asked if he wanted to kill him but it seems he is a narcissist and had little regard to Floyd, which was probably obvious anyway, but still, it is a fascinating chart into the mind of the cop.
the question was DID THE COP WANT TO KILL GEORGE FLOYD?
nothing about WHy he died? or health issues..
we have NO aspects - no receptions from the cop about George Floyd.
IMO he had no direct intent to kill.
moon in 8th hows - death .. nothing else.
you are trying to build a criminal case just based off 7 planets
where 3 are taken rght off the bat

You want to find
- desire
- intent
- unasked part of the question

moon being in 8th last aspect to the sun does NOT validate/answer the question "did the cop want to kill George Floyd?". All it validates is due to lack of aspect between merc / jup and no aspects from uranus/mars - it wasnt premeditated and no receptions show - Jup didnt know George. Therefore it is not premeditated. However, he didnt give a **** about George.
18 investigations 2 repremands he ws involved in a couple of shootings - nothing raised red flags from his "job" ... corrupt cop.. his wife even left him.
there must have been more reasons than George Floyd. I bet she didnt know about 18 complaints.

If the cop prevented the blood flow which caused his heart to pump extra oxygen which it didnt have and then that caused his death then yea we should have jup aspect. BUt again jup doesnt have anything.
I am waiting for today's results.
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  #82  
Unread 06-01-2020, 08:35 AM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tikana View Post
the question was DID THE COP WANT TO KILL GEORGE FLOYD?
nothing about WHy he died? or health issues..
we have NO aspects - no receptions from the cop about George Floyd.
IMO he had no direct intent to kill.
moon in 8th hows - death .. nothing else.
you are trying to build a criminal case just based off 7 planets
where 3 are taken rght off the bat

You want to find
- desire
- intent
- unasked part of the question

moon being in 8th last aspect to the sun does NOT validate/answer the question "did the cop want to kill George Floyd?". All it validates is due to lack of aspect between merc / jup and no aspects from uranus/mars - it wasnt premeditated and no receptions show - Jup didnt know George. Therefore it is not premeditated. However, he didnt give a **** about George.
18 investigations 2 repremands he ws involved in a couple of shootings - nothing raised red flags from his "job" ... corrupt cop.. his wife even left him.
there must have been more reasons than George Floyd. I bet she didnt know about 18 complaints.

If the cop prevented the blood flow which caused his heart to pump extra oxygen which it didnt have and then that caused his death then yea we should have jup aspect. BUt again jup doesnt have anything.
I am waiting for today's results.
Why not do a medical horary on the cause of George's death before the private autopsy comes out? I didn't think it was going to be ready today.

Btw, some people are saying the wife filed for divorce to protect the asset's
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  #83  
Unread 06-01-2020, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
Why not do a medical horary on the cause of George's death before the private autopsy comes out? I didn't think it was going to be ready today.

Btw, some people are saying the wife filed for divorce to protect the asset's
If you want to run another horary, go for it. I wont read it
I had seen enough of this ...

2nd autopsy will b ready
She condoned the murder

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  #84  
Unread 06-01-2020, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
Why not do a medical horary on the cause of George's death before the private autopsy comes out? I didn't think it was going to be ready today.

Btw, some people are saying the wife filed for divorce to protect the asset's
Not assets, but herself. She was getting death threats.
  #85  
Unread 06-01-2020, 12:09 PM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sworm09 View Post

Considering this chart, what you said
about the conflicting instructions fits this chart very well.

I use the 7th to represent basically anyone that isn't the querent,

but I guess it's fair to use the 10th.

One look and you'll notice the 10 car pile up in Gemini
with the ruler himself Mercury in the house.
Mercury as the significator for the cops (the "other" in this scenario)
in a Double-Bodied sign in the bound of the out of sect malefic Saturn
says a lot.
It seems to indicate intense ambiguity on the part of the cops.
This may be in their instructions (as you pointed out)
but also potentially in their intentions.

The cop may not have even known what his intentions were
considering Mercury in Gemini.
It's very hard to get good answers on a person's intentions with horary.

Horary tends to be more mechanical than that,
often giving you the bare minimum as far as internal states go.
As far as I'm concerned this chart gives big a "????????" as your answer.
I would say, no he didn't want to kill George Floyd,
but that might be a unnecessarily binary way of looking at his intentions.
Considering the fact that Mercury, the planet of contradictions and paradoxes
who is also in a Double Bodied sign (associated with ambiguity),
is front and center,

we have to be very careful judging intent from this chart.
IF victim George Floyd is VENUS
her accidental debility, fixed stars etc.
then Cop = MARS - the natural significator
MARS is weak because cadent

cadency
along with Cop being in MERCURY's detriment and fall

harms him
alternatively
perhaps Cop is MERCURY
and
QUERENT asks is this Cop a bad Cop
so with reference to fixed stars:

MERCURY although essentially dignified
is on a fixed star related to violent military actions
suggesting the Cop abused his power.

OR
perhaps
this specific Cop is SUN

NEVERTHELESS
MOON IN A THIRD PARTY QUESTION CANNOT BE CO-RULER OF THE QUESITED
But Moon can represent death if ruling 8th

COP IS A PERSON UNKNOWN TO QUERENT
but consensus is COP clearly is AN ENEMY TO THE COMMON GOOD & SOCIETY

so then
Cop takes 7th.


NATURAL SIGNIFICATOR MARS
or VENUS
or even MERCURY depicts the event and the actual actions
without recourse to JUPITER
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  #86  
Unread 06-01-2020, 03:14 PM
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Smile Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Any Horary implications that he was ordered to kill Floyd? So, just "doing his job"?
  #87  
Unread 06-01-2020, 04:08 PM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Any Horary implications that he was ordered to kill Floyd? So, just "doing his job"?
Tikana previously used the 2nd house of self-esteem as a motivation for the corrupt cop, with Saturn there, ruler of his fallen Jupiter, showing a love of power.

Mars is also in this house, strong in triplicity, and ruling his 12th house of secret organisations. Then, perhaps the 10th house could be seen as the government, and signified by a retrograde Venus, which may be a significator for the 'deep state.'

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  #88  
Unread 06-01-2020, 05:21 PM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

All,

This thread got so derailed by attacking and off topic posts that I closed it for cleanup. It is now reopened, with a warning: stay on topic, stick to astrology, and always make your disagreements about the issue, not the person! Do not attack anyone's opinions. You may respectfully disagree, but too many of the disagreeing posts turned into attacks. And while it's reasonable to have some discussion/debate of which houses to use and why, and why/when to use a horary chart or an event chart, it is not okay to keep hassling other posters about a point that has already been made and moved on from, especially when they are repeatedly telling you to stop.

As long as you all keep to discussion of the horary, and keep it about the issue not the person, this discussion may resume.

Warning,
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Last edited by Osamenor; 06-01-2020 at 08:07 PM.
  #89  
Unread 06-01-2020, 08:15 PM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

hey all

So the latest update from 2nd autopsy just publish under an hour ago
https://www.ajc.com/news/happening-t...jzri4dGbQcmRJ/


It pretty much is what I was thinking "Family autopsy says Floyd died of asphyxia from neck, back compression"
Family wants 1st degree murder charges since it is "homocide" by 2nd autopsy

I am out of words at this point.

Tik
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  #90  
Unread 06-01-2020, 08:53 PM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

The cop is going to prison for a long time, that autopsy just sealed his fate.
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  #91  
Unread 06-01-2020, 09:14 PM
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Family paid for 2nd autopsy.
I'm sure there was no biased opinion.
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Unread 06-02-2020, 01:32 AM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tikana View Post
the only person who brought up 8th house was Aqua3000 and she is going off event chart theory .. since this is not event chart, 8th house is not crucial.
No, I am going off of Horary, not Event chart. In my opinion, 8th house signfies FLoyd in this Horary chart.
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Unread 06-02-2020, 03:12 AM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquarius7000 View Post
No, I am going off of Horary, not Event chart. In my opinion, 8th house signfies FLoyd in this Horary chart.
have you seen this?
https://artnunymiss.wordpress.com/20...are-kill-them/

I dont have anything to add to this thread, to be honest.
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Unread 06-02-2020, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tikana View Post
have you seen this?
https://artnunymiss.wordpress.com/20...are-kill-them/

I dont have anything to add to this thread, to be honest.
Thanks for sharing the link. Interesting interpretation and their interpretation.
My point with my post was to clarify to the readers of this thread that 8th house in this threadís Horary chart for the victim was my very conscious Horary choice, and Not based on event charts even if that has been alleged many times on this thread. I choose what I understand as correct. At the same time I am not imposing on anyone else that they should align their choice to mine. Case closed for me.
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Unread 06-02-2020, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquarius7000 View Post
Thanks for sharing the link. Interesting interpretation and their interpretation.
My point with my post was to clarify to the readers of this thread that 8th house in this threadís Horary chart for the victim was my very conscious Horary choice, and Not based on event charts even if that has been alleged many times on this thread. I choose what I understand as correct. At the same time I am not imposing on anyone else that they should align their choice to mine. Case closed for me.
We already know the intent on the pig side..btw he is on suicide watch.
I was more interested in asce than George Floyd
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Unread 06-03-2020, 12:46 AM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tikana View Post
Some things I esp. like from that page, I am putting below, also because they really resonate with me. Recently, somebody on AW was fervently against any role or use of intuition and completely unmerited it when it comes to Horary/Astrology. Happy that some other Astrologers actually 'feel' quite differently about that.

Quote:
"Our information base changes all the time. And I am being told not to be nitpicky about orbs or classical rules, but to rely even more on my intuition than I already do. Full disclosure. That said, the divine hand is definitely in play for me to even be in this conversation.
...But I am a self-taught astrologer..."

https://artnunymiss.wordpress.com/20...are-kill-them/
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Unread 06-03-2020, 03:08 AM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquarius7000 View Post
Some things I esp. like from that page, I am putting below, also because they really resonate with me. Recently, somebody on AW was fervently against any role or use of intuition and completely unmerited it when it comes to Horary/Astrology. Happy that some other Astrologers actually 'feel' quite differently about that.

Intuition does not negate horary rules.
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Unread 06-03-2020, 03:10 AM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquarius7000 View Post
No, I am going off of Horary, not Event chart. In my opinion, 8th house signfies FLoyd in this Horary chart.

Ok based on what sources?
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Unread 06-03-2020, 03:11 AM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukpoohbear View Post
On this thread it was mentioned previously, that 10th is police the institution and asc is Jupiter the police man.

My motivations for asking was because the video effected me and I saw the look of narcissism on the cop’s face which freaked me out. The question was definitely focused on the cop. I wanted to know his mind.

I’ve given both the asc to Floyd and the cop (at different times) but I’ve settled on the cop definitely being the horrible Jupiter retrograde conjunct Pluto.

This is a viable option if you are asking on whether the state wanted George Flynn dead.

However even if he was acting as a cop, if he did it would have probably been for personal reasons.
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Unread 06-03-2020, 03:17 AM
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Re: Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?

-"Take care to learn whether the quesited be any relation to the querent: if so, look to the house signifying that relation; and if not, look to the 7th for the quesited's significator.".

-"If the significator of the absent be strong, and in a good house, and separated from a fortune, he is not dead. If he be afflicted, and was lately in ☍ or ☐ of an evil planet, I judge that he has been in trouble or misfortune, according to the nature of the house from whence afflicted; but not dead, unless the lord of the 8th afflict him also, and the lights be afflicted.".

An Introduction to Astrology by William Lilly - Zadkiel, ed. [1852]

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You'll also find some tips for horary practice!
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