Powerful presence, resilience, and toughness.

The19thLaw

Well-known member
Are there any aspects or placements in a natal chart that are supposed to signal this?

Like the kinds of people who have the kind of power you can almost feel in the room, a kind of presence, and the resilience that keeps them going from one failure after another yet still succeeding at life?

My thoughts from research are.

1. Mars in 10th house.

2. A lot of aspects to the Sun or a well placed Sun.

3. Aspects between Mars and Saturn.
 

SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
What are "orb values"?

Well that's off topic greybread. Are you aware about this?

OP you said:
Are there any aspects or placements in a natal chart that are supposed to signal this?

Traditionally, Mars is a star which indicates force, wars, plunderings, screams, violence, whoring, the loss of property, banishment,
exile, alienation from parents, capture, the deaths of wives, abortions, love affairs, marriages, the
loss of goods, lies, vain hopes, strong-armed robbery, banditry, looting, quarrels among friends, anger,
fighting, verbal abuse, hatreds, lawsuits.

http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf

This following link are useful for basic understanding of this subject:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/marsatt.html

It's even more true in nativity's traits when Mars is operating in the Angular houses, especially within 3° from any angles in the horoscope.

Like the kinds of people who have the kind of power you can almost feel in the room, a kind of presence, and the resilience that keeps them going from one failure after another yet still succeeding at life?

It's more positive trait from Mars however keep in mind that Mars is a malefic planet. It's even more malefic when they happend to be in noon birth time [diurnal] nativity, thus making hard for every nativity to handle such an malefic in any specifics house which it's impacts generated by Mars.

My thoughts from research are.

1. Mars in 10th house.

Correct.

2. A lot of aspects to the Sun or a well placed Sun.

3. Aspects between Mars and Saturn.

This depending whether both stars are in positive aspects [trine and sextile] or negative aspects [square and opposition] and any conjunction is automatically negative because Mars is malefic star.

Generally though it's good when malefic stars operate in Cadent houses because the negative aspects of malefic stars will be impacting upon others. That's all from Hermetic view.

Don't forget too to identifying it's sign and houseruler because you can see where they will be playing out in your life. Domiciled of Mars is Aries and Scorpio and am sure you know about this. Hopefully this could help you to understand it.
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Are there any aspects or placements in a natal chart that are supposed to signal this?
Like the kinds of people who have the kind of power you can almost feel in the room
a kind of presence
angular planets in 1st house are stronger than angular planets in 10th :smile:
also check parans to Fixed Stars
and the resilience that keeps them going from one failure after another yet still succeeding at life?
My thoughts from research are.

1. Mars in 10th house.

2. A lot of aspects to the Sun or a well placed Sun.

3. Aspects between Mars and Saturn.
 
The very theme/meaning of mars is power, and thus everything that is closely associated with power is what we can call it's "traits", such as fighting, assertiveness, strength, resistance, anger, etc. We can even say that mars represents "personality" itself. This would support how the ASC, which is ruled by mars, is our image as projected onto the world, or in other words, what our personality is to those who see us, it's like our MC/our social and public image, except MC is our reputation held by society and also what we actually will become in a way, whereas our ASC is really just how we seem on the surface.

Anyways, that proves that Mars indeed is symbolically representative of personality itself.

Which means if one's mars has a positive relationship with their personality dictating planets, they will have naturally have a strong personality.

Also, if one's mars has a positive relationship with their non personality planets, they will develop a strong personality.

This is because personality planets are what make us think the way we do, whereas non personality planets are what are representations of what we will develop into, in each of the major and broad areas of life.

So I hope all of that answered your question.

Also, if one doesn't have the aspects I mentioned above, then you would just have to look at the condition of their personality planets, as that would give you the closest look at how strong they are naturally as people.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
The very theme/meaning of mars is power, and thus everything that is closely associated with power is what we can call it's "traits", such as fighting, assertiveness, strength, resistance, anger, etc. We can even say that mars represents "personality" itself. This would support how the ASC, which is ruled by mars, is our image as projected onto the world, or in other words, what our personality is to those who see us, it's like our MC/our social and public image, except MC is our reputation held by society and also what we actually will become in a way, whereas our ASC is really just how we seem on the surface.

Anyways, that proves that Mars indeed is symbolically representative of personality itself.

Which means if one's mars has a positive relationship with their personality dictating planets, they will have naturally have a strong personality.

Also, if one's mars has a positive relationship with their non personality planets, they will develop a strong personality.

This is because personality planets are what make us think the way we do, whereas non personality planets are what are representations of what we will develop into, in each of the major and broad areas of life.

So I hope all of that answered your question.

Also, if one doesn't have the aspects I mentioned above, then you would just have to look at the condition of their personality planets, as that would give you the closest look at how strong they are naturally as people.
not necessarily :smile:
Mars ability to act is dependent on condition in natal chart :smile:
 

ynnest

Well-known member
really though?

Yes it represents hidden power which is where the real power in this world lies. Then many people might believe that power lies in some kind of martial aggression or Saturnian paternalism but all of these ones are in many ways from my perspective just outer "manifestations" of the core power base that Pluto represents.
Pluto is the matrix system and the database that controls it all while mars for example might be strong computers/people within the system itself.

Of course there are different kinds of power depending on how you define it but I believe you get my point.

Y
 

Witchyone

Well-known member
In my experience a powerful presence that people feel doesn't come with resilience and toughness any more often than not. I associate a powerful presence with Sun and Mars (edit: probably Jupiter too) having positive prominence in a chart. I associate resilience and toughness with Saturn being well placed.

As for straight up power, I think it's like talent. You can be powerful in different ways just as you can be talented in different ways, so every planet can be associated with it.
 
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Flapjacks

Well-known member
Why are we associating powerful presence, resilience, and toughness with Mars, again? Mars is action, not resilience. A presence can be powerful and non-aggressive. Toughness is another descriptor of resilience.

For powerful presence, any planet(s) on the AC, and to a lesser degree the MC (outward orientation). What kind of "power" would be a product of the particular placements.

For instance, I knew a girl who walks in a room and everyone looks at her. She's not traditionally attractive, or all that "loud" in her dress or demeanor. It is just something about her demands attention, like a fair damsel in need of a knight. She has Chiron conjunct Ascendant in Gemini, depositing to Mercury/Venus conjunct in 5th house Scorpio, trine Moon/Jupiter conjunct in Pisces in the 10th (men drop like flies in her presence :wink:).

Another female, but with a masculine presence. She had a tendency to intimidate others without even making one move. People openly stated to me that they were afraid of her, even when she'd done nothing wrong to them. Ascendant in Leo, Sun/Jupiter/NN conjunct in Aries over the MC, Mars in the fixed sign of Taurus.

Third female. Intense, piercing blue eyes. She also commands attention the moment she walks into a room, but unlike the first girl, it's not soft and "helpless", but magnetic. She attracts stalkers and inspires obsession with those that barely know her (she showed me her stack of creepy love letters from students, both male and female, while she was a substitute teacher). You guessed: Pluto conjunct Ascendant in Scorpio.

Then there is a young man with a powerful presence, but it is because he is physically imposing; 6'4", over 250 lbs, but also on the autism spectrum - socially inconsiderate and confusing to others. He has Sun/Neptune conjunct AC in Capricorn, Saturn/Uranus conjunct in 12th house Sagittarius opposed Moon/Chiron conjunct in 6th house Gemini. Neptune is exact on the AC, 0 degrees with no major aspects aside from the Sun conjunction.

I use these examples because I know birth times, which I can't say for most celebrities...

Resilience would belong to Saturn's position in the chart. If there are many contacts and it is prominent and well-integrated, especially with Earth placements and fixed signs, it would likely show all-around resilience.

My opinion, anyway.
 
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