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Unread 01-26-2012, 05:36 AM
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vannasan vannasan is offline
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Mercury square Midheaven - problems communicating (especially in public)?

I would like to know if having Mercury square MC can show problems with public speaking or speaking in a group, or communicating in general.

I have my mercury in the first house, and it seems to be well-aspected except for the square to MC. In the first house I would think it would mean I would be an assertive speaker and would probably be good at communicating.
In contract, I never speak up in class or in public, even when I have questions or I'm confused because I know I will end up looking silly. If I do try to speak in public (maybe a presentation, or asking questions) as soon as I have the 'mic' my mind goes blank and the words out my mouth make no sense. Because of this I have social anxiety. This is especially weird because I have my MC in Libra, which should mean I would be a good speaker, or at least diplomatic (or is it charismatic?).

So anyone able to shed some light on this aspect, or know if it's easy to overcome. I will also post my chart, so someone can tell me if I'm missing another aspect.

*I've even joined a toastmasters group to help me get over it but...
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Unread 01-26-2012, 12:58 PM
lazarusx lazarusx is offline
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Re: Mercury square Midheaven - problems communicating (especially in public)?

I'm keen to hear response's to this also.

I also have Mercury in the 1st house squaring my MC, Mercury for me is in it's Ruling Sign of Gemini however despite this i have the same issue's with speaking publicly. I do however have Pluto squaring Mars and Venus in my 3rd house of communication which may be impairing my verbal skills.

It's really random for me, sometimes i can be extremely eloquent with my words and convey my thoughts quite clearly and confidently, and other times i can be a mumbling incoherent anxious mess; this i would think is influenced by my tight conjunction of my Moon/Mercury. I can't speak authentically unless im passionate or absolutely confident in how i feel(Moon) about what it is im saying.

I love to write though, (well in these modern times 'type') and i can sometimes spend a long time writing a response to someone because i want to be absolutely clear that my words convey how i feel in the best possible description. I find poetry fascinating in its ability to convey feeling and thought into eloquent words which capture the 'big picture', which basically sums up my tight Moon,Mercury and Jupiter conjunction in Gemini

Im sorry i can't offer any perspective on your chart, i'm not really experienced enough to give an analysis, i hope to hear others view's on this aspect however
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Unread 01-26-2012, 02:09 PM
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Re: Mercury square Midheaven - problems communicating (especially in public)?

Well Mercury joy's in the 1st house, because it rules the head, intellect and the mentality of an individual. So I think it would help in the education areas. Maybe public speaking would be the sacrafice for the statted above?

I have Mercury in the 1st too, and I am scared to speak publicly. I always get all anxious an nervous. Though I think this may apply to a large crowd, rather than small. Despite the fact that they may not have mercury squaring the MC.
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Unread 01-26-2012, 05:53 PM
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Re: Mercury square Midheaven - problems communicating (especially in public)?

I don't think the issue is Mercury square MC on its lonesome, so much as Mercury conjunct Neptune, with the square to the MC thrown in for good measure. Neptune tends to "dissolve" what it touches. In your case, your thoughts and communication may find themselves swept out to sea by Neptune's tides!

The positive side of Neptune conjunct Mercury (along with your moon-Jupiter) is that you probably have a rich imagination and inner life.

I taught students for many years, and have a mild dissociative disorder. I found I needed to speak from an outline or notes. It wasn't that I didn't know my material, but just that I could so easily lose my train of thought. See if you can arrange for some kind of memory aid to get you through public speaking. Power point presentations (or even old-fashioned overhead transparencies or printed hand-outs) are great because (a) you can follow them, and (b) if you do get a bit confused in mid-sentence, your audience has a visual aid to help them get your points.
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Unread 01-26-2012, 08:23 PM
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Re: Mercury square Midheaven - problems communicating (especially in public)?

Mercury MH aspects denote a public orientation to communicating.
Squares can be shyness with a weakend mars, in aspect to uranus ~ verbal abrasion, trines and goodies - smoothe talkers, but must listen closely.
mh is ruled by saturn ~ the whole world is watching ~
aspects to natal mwrc are key in the 10th house appearance.
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Unread 01-26-2012, 08:50 PM
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Re: please get back on subject, to all

Hi Vannasan. Even though you have specifically asked about Mercury square MC, I agree with Waybread that your issues with public speaking are reflected more broadly in the chart. The thread is about this aspect in your chart, rather than in the abstract, so I do feel its relevant to include an explanation of why Mercury square MC may be problematic in your particular chart.

Starting with the aspect itself, however, a tense aspect from the meridian to Mercury can reflect tense communications between, or involving parents. You may benefit from reflecting on how your communication was received, and how you received and interpreted the communications of others, in the early environment, and how this may have affected you. Mercury being in the first house adds to the suggestion that communication issues were an important feature of your early life in some way.

As well as the Mercury Neptune conjunction, Neptune rules the third house, which reiterates the Mercury-Neptune connection. Neptune, of course is extremely strong in this chart as it is rising, and so Waybread's suggestions may be very useful indeed to you.

Also, as a strongly Capricornian person, you are especially attuned to social rules and standards. The Capricorn Venus Sun conjunction is semisquare Saturn, adding to the possibility of a fear of failure with regard to giving of oneself.

Mercury sextile Pluto may bring a heightened sense of threat with regard to communication, even though the aspect is a sextile.

Mars in Scorpio in the 11th, with Pluto near the 11th cusp, both also in Scorpio - these placements could be projected onto groups, perhaps bringing a fear of being overpowered and defeated. How does your Mars in Scorpio function generally? Are you able to express healthy aggression or does it get suppressed and then look for a way into your awareness through other people. Moon in Aquarius exactly square Mars in Scorpio may instinctively shy away from expressing aggressive or assertive energy of any kind due a fear of losing touch with the civilised ethics and ideals that can be like a symbolic breast to Moon in Aquarius.

All of the above chart factors also reflect your passion for public speaking, and for the sharing of ideas and visions - Moon conjunct Jupiter in Aquarius adding yet more weight to this passion. Your chart also suggests great integrity and I'm sure that will increasingly come across as you continue to work through your fears. I would spend some time reflecting on what it is you are actually afraid of, and who it is that is afraid because this 'who' is just one part of you.

A couple of more things to bare in mind - Firstly, Chiron in Gemini in the 6th house closely quincunx Mercury could add to a sense of a wound around the use of the mind. And secondly, Uranus in the 12th can reflect a family background in which the expression of new and exciting ideas was frowned upon.

All this is speculative of course, and I'd be very interested to hear your responses.
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Unread 01-26-2012, 09:10 PM
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deleted my comment, to All

All,

I deleted my comment and related comments since the majority believe that this thread is a general chart request and not specifically about Mercury square MC.

Deleting,

Tim
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Unread 01-27-2012, 02:49 AM
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Re: deleted my comment, to All

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsontc View Post
All,

I deleted my comment and related comments since the majority believe that this thread is a general chart request and not specifically about Mercury square MC.

Deleting,

Tim
I wish you hadn't deleted them, I would have liked to have read your comments.

vannasan, I have Mercury in 1st square MC too, and I have never had any problem with public speaking. Your question sent me on a quest today, and in addition to waybread and miquar's interpretations (both very good as usual!) I'd like to offer a newbie's idea...yours is a nighttime chart, and that puts both your Sun and Jupiter naturally out of sect (they are happier in the daytime.) This might make you a bit less extroverted overall. Mostly I was looking at your Mercury in Capricorn, which is ruled by Saturn in Sagittarius, the place of Mercury's detriment. So even though Mercury is not in bad shape, my supposition is that his ruler being both in aversion (unable to see him) and in the place of his detriment might make it difficult to express yourself publicly. With Libra on the MC, this is the place of Saturn's exaltation, and the domicile of Venus...who is also in Capricorn with Mecury. Venus rules many things, among them the arts (and actors? or public speakers?) but again with a nighttime chart, the triplicity ruler is Mercury (and we already looked at his issues with Saturn) and your MC then will disposit back to Venus in Capricorn...ruled by Saturn. So my newly learning guess is that it is Saturn that is making it difficult for you to be at ease with public speaking. I wonder though, since your MC is in Libra (the exaltation of Saturn) if after your Saturn return you might find talking in front of a group easier...
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Last edited by tsmall; 01-27-2012 at 04:50 AM.
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Unread 01-27-2012, 05:28 AM
sandstone sandstone is offline
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Re: Mercury square Midheaven - problems communicating (especially in public)?

vannasan,

i think saturn is holding you up... i like everyones comments to you as well!

here is a fun little thing for you and others to do, if you want to.. these are solar arc directions applied to your chart... the distance of saturn to your ascendant? about 26 degrees 30 minutes approx... that is about how old you are at present.. solar arc saturn is conjunct your ascendant fairly close to exact at this moment.. by my calcs it is exact at the moment.. you appear more sensitive to the possibility of rejection at this time which has a classic saturn flavour to it.. on the other hand some very nice directions are offsetting this and you really appear to want to 'step out'...

solar arc directions are based off taking the suns distance covered in 1 day - approx 1 degree, and moving the whole chart by this distance on a 1 degree = 1 year basis, to examine present dynamics for the chart under consideration... doing this puts a big focus on saturn as it directly connects with the ascendant...as others have pointed out- ascendant and cappy planets connect back to the 12th house saturn... this speaks to hidden psychological patterns that might be holding you back... i think you are addressing this in your desire to speak publicly and overcome obstacles (another saturn word) to do with the public speaking potential your chart holds..

okay, here is another tangent to consider...i would note the close moon/mars square which has the ascendant as midpoint very close and direct... certain emotional factors may to be interfering with your comfort level when you get in front of people - moon/mars is the aggressive mom, or sense of aggression being picked up that might not be valid, but may have been a part of your early learning environment and or relationship with mom... - moon rules 7th - experiencing others with a martial flavour mixed in - on the attack if you look like a bimbo, might have been a part of your early home environment.. just guessing on my part.. moon is also closely conj jupiter, not as close as the square to mars, but still close and this offsets this some... "when the moon is in aquarius and jupiter aligns with mars" is a line out of the 5th dimension song, lol... jupiter and mars in hard aspect is a bit different then what they were getting at in the song..
i think most everyone seems to identify immediately with you and want to help! that is positive and speaks well of the regulars commenting here at this astro forum...

edit - forgot to mention - did someone point out the fairly close sun/venus conj with saturn 45 to this? adds to your shyness and reticence as i see it.. also the thing about rejection - a saturn thing - is hitting onto your venus as well.. someone probably already mentioned this, but it factors into your ability to step forward and communicate with confidence...miquar mentioned this.. there ya go!

Last edited by sandstone; 01-27-2012 at 05:44 AM.
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Unread 01-27-2012, 09:29 PM
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Re: Mercury square Midheaven - problems communicating (especially in public)?

This thread disappeared from my subscribed threads list when it got moved to 'astrology and psychology' so I'm just re-subscribing!
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Unread 02-22-2012, 06:25 AM
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Re: Mercury square Midheaven - problems communicating (especially in public)?

I think the thread also disappeared from my subscribed list when it got moved, as I did not realize there were so many answers.

Thanks for all the insight, and I can connect with them all for sure. I realized I had a moon sq. mars, but did not have agression issues from it. I actually shy away from expressing agression as Miquar pointed out. But with the Scorpio mars, sometimes if it is something that is attacking my values (Moon in 2nd H), it's almost as if my anger just smolders beneath the surface. Though most times I tend to forget what makes me angry and I'm not sure why this is.

LazarusX, I also like to write responses, rather than answering on the spot questions, because then I have time to mull it over and make sure my answers are what I want them to be. I also write poetry to express my feelings, somehow I can't express my feelings any other way. I joke with my sister that I may be aloof to my own feelings (Moon in Aquarius maybe?)

Waybread, I also need visual cues, like a powerpoint to remember what I need to say. But in some ways I find that if I use cue-cards or have a podium or anything inhibiting in front of me, it almost makes me more nervous. I feel that if I memorize something or have it on cards and I mess up then it's hard to find where I was, so now I tend to just remember a few key points then just play around with it when I'm in front of people, also that way it seems more like a conversation. BUT I'm still not comfortable, so it seems more like a contrived conversation, hehe.

tsmall & sandstone - I think your ideas about my problems stemming from Saturn in 12th are interesting. I had not really thought of this before, and can see it as a likely culprit. I had only thought about Saturn in relation to my Sun and Asc, and not being able to truly find myself, since Saturn was in 12th. It could well relate to my mercury and not being able to communicate the real me.
I wonder, what is it like for a Saturn return aspecting the 12th house?? Would it be heavily felt, or behind the scenes?

Waybread also mentioned Neptune, and I know that for a Capricorn, I daydream more than what I would like to consider "normal". I read once that the outer planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto) are beyond our control since saturn is as far as the ego can control. Is there any way I can control this Neptune, or make it work to my advantage?

Miquar - you mentioned something about Chiron in Gemini. Since Chiron shows where our wounds are and Gemini is about communication, would this also be an issue?
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Unread 02-22-2012, 12:20 PM
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Re: Mercury square Midheaven - problems communicating (especially in public)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vannasan View Post
I would like to know if having Mercury square MC can show problems with public speaking or speaking in a group, or communicating in general.
In your case, no.

Quote:
I have my mercury in the first house, and it seems to be well-aspected except for the square to MC. In the first house I would think it would mean I would be an assertive speaker and would probably be good at communicating.
In contract, I never speak up in class or in public, even when I have questions or I'm confused because I know I will end up looking silly. If I do try to speak in public (maybe a presentation, or asking questions) as soon as I have the 'mic' my mind goes blank and the words out my mouth make no sense. Because of this I have social anxiety. This is especially weird because I have my MC in Libra, which should mean I would be a good speaker, or at least diplomatic (or is it charismatic?).

So anyone able to shed some light on this aspect, or know if it's easy to overcome. I will also post my chart, so someone can tell me if I'm missing another aspect.

*I've even joined a toastmasters group to help me get over it but...
This challenge has more to do with the condition of your Asc, your basic personality, which will unfold in the Saturnine way - slowly over time. You're still pretty young. And Mercury's conjunction with Neptune. This points to the need to first be very clear within your own mind about what you want to say. This means carefully plot through each word and each image in your mind that you want to portray. Write first. Then learn to speak.

Many great communicators - singers, soloists, orators, etc - have Mercury in angular aspect to the Asc/MC. Such hard aspects with Mercury create drive, tension to be resolved, challenges, a sense of urgency in delivering a message or in developing the ability for communicating. Don't worry that your ability isn't there yet. It is. Just develop it.

Practice at home. Write out what you want to say, first as if you are just writing for yourself. Then practice reading it in front of a mirror - or at first in front of a dead microphone. Maybe for a tape recorder. Get accustomed to the actions of speaking. Go through the motions. Then practice a speech with just family/friends in a totally accepting audience (small).

Don't try jumping right into something big or to speaking before strangers or any other possibly critical audience. Just practice writing and speaking what is important to YOU. Figure that out first. What feels important to you to say? What things do you feel passionate about? Focus more on the passion of what feels important and delivering it well. The audiences can come later.

The anxiety is coming from jumping in too fast. Just go more slowly and methodically. Practice privately to build your confidence.
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