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Horary Questions on Relational Issues For horary questions about relationships.


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  #1  
Unread 02-06-2011, 07:05 PM
dourage dourage is offline
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How to interpret Saturn in this chart?

Hi all,

This horary chart is from a friend of mine who asked me to help her interpret it. I tried to help her out a bit and I think I got most of it figured out (I'm a beginner though) but I would just really like your help regarding one or two aspects (and of course am open to other considerations).

She asked if she would meet up again with a romantic interest of hers.

Got the chart here. The only planets I am totally confused about are Saturn and Mercury. What do they signify? And how to interpret them??

If you want to read what I got so far, it's the following (I analyze through traditional horary):

Ruler of 1st is Venus (she's a woman), ruler of 7th is Mars (quesited = man, plus this is a seventh house question, so he also gets Sun). Venus and Mars in mutual reception by term shows me that they will meet again. Mars in cazimi shows me his ego is overridden by his more animalistic male-ness. His planets are in the 4th house, house of endings, his turned 10th house. He's in a position to act because angular houses, but then, Sun is in detriment... he hates his own animalistic side so he can't or won't act? Or he has the last say because they're in the house of endings?

Also, Sun, Moon, Mercury and Mars all exalt Saturn and love Mercury by term. Saturn however is in the 12th here. This sseems like a big red flag to me, especially since it rules 4th house (not 5th because 5th house is intercepted!) but I have no idea how to interpret Saturn in the 12th. Anyone an idea? However, it seems no good to me that Saturn is hiding in the 12th, being retrograde.

Second, Venus and Moon. Venus is in Sag, so she exalts Jupiter (and squares the planet) and is in term of Mars and face of Saturn. Jupiter rules her third house, so she would like to be friends and nothing more? Really I have no idea how to interpret the 3rd house here. She is in detriment of Mercury, while the rest of the planets seems to loove Mercury. This is standing out. Then, she's in the 3rd house, which I do not know how to interpret at all. Moon exalts Saturn, too, but is in detriment of Sun.

So, Mercury also seems important. Mercury rules her 11th and his 5th (if we turn the chart). Seems to me she would like to be friends but he would like to be more romantically involved?

I also looked at the arabic parts and the Asc is conjunct part of Passion, initiative, masculine or feminine conception, retribution, year of death, marriage of women.
Sun and Mars are conjunct the part of marriage (!!!) and part of pleasure (!!!). In Frawley I read that this part of marriage does not necessarily signify a marriage, but more the relationship in general.

Ok, so, my feeling tells me she shouldn't even get that coffee if she doesn't want things to go anywhere. he seems really interested with all that mutual reception, Cazimi, and arabic parts stuff.

So what about that Saturn and Mercury? If you could help me out further I would be really thankful. Also if I'm overlooking something (important). Thank you in advance.

EDIT: oh yeah, almost forgot, Venus is about to change sign here! So she's going to soon LOVE Saturn too!
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Last edited by dourage; 08-17-2011 at 03:13 PM.
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  #2  
Unread 02-06-2011, 08:32 PM
Serendipity Serendipity is offline
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Re: How to interpret Saturn in this chart?

Not sure why you're paying so much attention to Mercury.
She asked if they would meet.
Are the primary significators in applying aspect?
What shape is the moon in?
Is it applying to his significator?
Saturn is on the ascendant, this usually indicates a big fat no or not for a long time.
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Unread 02-06-2011, 08:40 PM
dourage dourage is offline
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Re: How to interpret Saturn in this chart?

No they're seperating, but in mutual reception.
Saturn is retrograde, though. And not really 'on the asc', more like in the 12th house, plus seperating from asc.
moon is peregrine, i guess? in 4th house. sextiling venus, about to conj. neptune and sextiling asc. all apllying aspects. and seperating from a cj. to both of his significators. so i only need to look at the aspects? and seperating means that they met but will not ever again or not for a long time?

i didn't pay that much attention to mercury... it just struck me as weird that almost all the planets in the chart either term or exalt saturn and mercury.

and i'm sorry, she asked whether they WOULD meet, and i by that i mean should, i guess.. sorry i phrased that wrong.

Last edited by dourage; 02-06-2011 at 08:44 PM.
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  #4  
Unread 02-07-2011, 02:04 AM
Serendipity Serendipity is offline
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Re: How to interpret Saturn in this chart?

Quote:
No they're seperating, but in mutual reception.
The significators (Venus and Mars) are not separating. They are not in aspect. For reception to occur you need an aspect.

Quote:
Saturn is retrograde, though. And not really 'on the asc', more like in the 12th house, plus seperating from asc.
If a planet is 5 degrees or less from the next house, read as if it's in the next house.

Quote:
moon is peregrine, i guess?
The moon is not peregrine, it has dignity by face which is, well, not too strong. It also has accidental dignity in the 4th house because it's angular. But the moon is close to the Sun (under the sunbeams), in other words... weakened. If you have a weak moon then not much is going to come of the matter since it's too weak to really perform.

Quote:
sextiling venus, about to conj. neptune and sextiling asc. all apllying aspects. and seperating from a cj. to both of his significators. so i only need to look at the aspects? and seperating means that they met but will not ever again or not for a long time?
Yes the moon is sextile Venus but that's her significator. I follow traditional horary so I dont normally look at Neptune. Outer planets in horary are considered negative. Both his significators? He's Mars here....If you want to take a secondary significator then he'd be Sun. No applying aspects here.
Some people might say there's a translation of light from the Moon to Mars and Venus. But there's no reception.. in other words you have a weakened Moon separating from Mars and applying to Venus. But the dignities are off and it's a weak moon. I do think they will be in contact but not meet.
Keep us posted on the outcome.
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Unread 02-07-2011, 02:44 AM
Serendipity Serendipity is offline
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Re: How to interpret Saturn in this chart?

Actually I think the Moon is Void here.....Venus will leave Sag before the Moon can perfect the aspect.
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  #6  
Unread 02-07-2011, 02:13 PM
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Arijana Arijana is offline
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Re: How to interpret Saturn in this chart?

I will add that Venus will meet up with Mars in....may is it?

btw Saturn, I am thinking,could represent a job issue for him,as it rules his 10th and his 9th,thats slamming the breaks on him.
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Unread 02-07-2011, 03:16 PM
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Re: How to interpret Saturn in this chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dourage View Post
Ruler of 1st is Venus (she's a woman), ruler of 7th is Mars (quesited = man, plus this is a seventh house question, so he also gets Sun).
Okay. Before you got to this point, you should have noted that the Ascendant is in the late degrees, and also it is Via Combusta (the region between 15 Libra and 15 Scorpio).

That would indicate she sort of knows the outcome, and she is also terrified, not necessarily in fear, but terrified in the sense of agonizing.

The Moon's last aspect was a trine with Saturn, so Saturn is one of her secondary significators and being in the 12th House also shows her to be in fear.

The Moon's next aspect will be a sextile with Venus, so Venus will be one of his secondary significators in addition to Mars/Sun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dourage View Post
Venus and Mars in mutual reception by term shows me that they will meet again.
Planets must be in aspect for there to be Reception, and Venus/Mars make no aspect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dourage View Post
Mars in cazimi shows me his ego is overridden by his more animalistic male-ness.
That is not traditional astrology. Mars is Cazimi in Aquarius in his 10th House. That would indicate he is a somewhat powerful person, but not necessarily a good person or a person with a good reputation or standing in the community (Sun in Detriment in Aquarius). Mars is Peregrine here which probably show him to be alienated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dourage View Post
His planets are in the 4th house, house of endings, his turned 10th house. He's in a position to act because angular houses, but then, Sun is in detriment... he hates his own animalistic side so he can't or won't act? Or he has the last say because they're in the house of endings?
It is not a House of Ending for him. At most you could say he's a status seeker, probably suffering "mid-life crisis."

Quote:
Originally Posted by dourage View Post
Also, Sun, Moon, Mercury and Mars all exalt Saturn and love Mercury by term. Saturn however is in the 12th here. This sseems like a big red flag to me, especially since it rules 4th house (not 5th because 5th house is intercepted!) but I have no idea how to interpret Saturn in the 12th. Anyone an idea? However, it seems no good to me that Saturn is hiding in the 12th, being retrograde.
Reception is about "allowing."

As I pointed out, the Moon's last aspect was a trine with Saturn, which makes Saturn a secondary significator for her.

Peregrine Cazimi Mars in Aquarius is in an applying trine to Saturn in Libra. Saturn receives Mars and does not impede him (the "allowing" part), meaning Mars can do what he wants.

Same for Sun. Saturn receives Sun, so Sun is not impeded. If Saturn would be Cadent Retrograde in Scorpio and Sun in Pisces, then there would be no Reception, and Sun would be impeded, and because Saturn is Retrograde and Cadent, the Sun would be an Accidental Malefic here.

Mercury is in an applying trine but way out of orb, however when Mercury gets within orb and perfects the trine, there will be Mutual Reception, because Saturn will receive Mercury in Aquarius, and Mercury will receive Saturn by Triplicity and Term (Mercury is a Triplicity Air Ruler and in this case the 1st Triplicity Ruler or Sect Ruler for Air Signs since this is a Night Chart with Sun Below Horizon) and Saturn will be transiting Mercury's Term for a few more degrees.

Perhaps she wants to end this relationship, but she won't, because she's too weak (Saturn Cadent and Retrograde in the 12th), and even so Saturn is exalted in Libra, so she might actually be afraid of what will happen to her if she doesn't have this relationship for her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dourage View Post
Second, Venus and Moon. Venus is in Sag, so she exalts Jupiter (and squares the planet) and is in term of Mars and face of Saturn. Jupiter rules her third house, so she would like to be friends and nothing more? Really I have no idea how to interpret the 3rd house here.
Capricorn is Jupiter's Fall. The only thing Jupiter hates worse than Capricorn is Gemini and Virgo. Aries and Capricorn are Violent Signs, but not Human Signs, so her personal safety is not an issue, but this relationship will not go well and will be fraught with difficulties.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dourage View Post
She is in detriment of Mercury, while the rest of the planets seems to loove Mercury. This is standing out. Then, she's in the 3rd house, which I do not know how to interpret at all. Moon exalts Saturn, too, but is in detriment of Sun.
The 3rd House is about travel, especially short trips, meetings, communications etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dourage View Post
Sun and Mars are conjunct the part of marriage (!!!) and part of pleasure (!!!). In Frawley I read that this part of marriage does not necessarily signify a marriage, but more the relationship in general.
I don't do Frawley and not really interested in anything he has to say. I already said she would cave in and continue the relationship.
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Addressing his pupil, Satyacharya said, "The science of Astrology is a great secret. It should be guarded with care. This sacred science of Astrology should never be taught to bad people. Nor should it be revealed to too many people and very frequently. It should be taught only to a few chosen disciples who really deserve and have the necessary qualifications."
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Unread 07-14-2011, 02:57 PM
dourage dourage is offline
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Re: How to interpret Saturn in this chart?

Well, it's been a while, but I promised to keep you guys posted on the outcome. They did meet, eventually, but she was so disappointed in him that she told him to never contact her again. So far they've met only one time after that, at a party where a mutual friend invited them. She hasn't seen him now in a couple of months. I don't think though she will ever go back to him.
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Unread 07-14-2011, 08:35 PM
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Re: How to interpret Saturn in this chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dourage View Post
Well, it's been a while, but I promised to keep you guys posted on the outcome. They did meet, eventually, but she was so disappointed in him that she told him to never contact her again.
Well, I got that part wrong, but that is why I usually won't read a chart with a Via Combusta Ascendant because it never turns out as the chart says.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dourage View Post
So far they've met only one time after that, at a party where a mutual friend invited them. She hasn't seen him now in a couple of months. I don't think though she will ever go back to him.
He's a slug. He really is and you can see that in the chart. I'm glad for her (and thanks for updating).
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Addressing his pupil, Satyacharya said, "The science of Astrology is a great secret. It should be guarded with care. This sacred science of Astrology should never be taught to bad people. Nor should it be revealed to too many people and very frequently. It should be taught only to a few chosen disciples who really deserve and have the necessary qualifications."
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Unread 07-14-2011, 08:59 PM
dourage dourage is offline
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Re: How to interpret Saturn in this chart?

Bob let me tell you that your interpretation is so on the spot. She finally realized that too, only it took her a while.

For me it's still hard to get a good grasp on horary, so many things play a role. I get confused by Lilly too, sometimes. Anyway, thanks again for taking the time.

Last edited by dourage; 08-17-2011 at 03:16 PM.
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Unread 08-04-2011, 06:08 PM
dourage dourage is offline
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Re: How to interpret Saturn in this chart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arijana View Post
I will add that Venus will meet up with Mars in....may is it?

btw Saturn, I am thinking,could represent a job issue for him,as it rules his 10th and his 9th,thats slamming the breaks on him.

Just read the entire post again. And wow Arijana, you were totally right! They met each other again at the end of May. Wow, how did you guess? Amazing!
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Unread 08-05-2011, 06:45 AM
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Re: How to interpret Saturn in this chart?

well I think the main question here was 'whether it would be wise to meet with this man?"

The chart does say no - an affliected Saturn at the ASC, no aspect between the significators, Venus changing signs - showing change of circumstances....

His ruler Mars is applying to Saturn. Saturn usually is the unwanted spouse, so its shows his wife. The trine shows them staying together and that would point to him not getting involved with the querent the way she thinks he would. Saturn retrograde and moving towards this trine also points to his wife almost returning to him, maybe she wanted to end it but changed her mind?

Venus and Mars being the significators of the 1/7th, conjucnted in May, you just look at ephermeris that shows the real time - where planets are at that particular time.

Intereting to note Venus gains in dignity when changing signs into Capricorn. Also enters exaltation of Mars. Venus becomes more 'wise' possibly and gains strength... Venus also feels attraction to Mars (frawley), but exaltation is one that is not permanent....

I would think, the meeting would have been seen from Mars trining the ASC...but is it wise to see him - no...

I think the fact that Moon chases Venus, while Venus gets away and into Capricorn shows matter changing and this situation does not move forward. Moon ends up being VOID -nothing to come of this situation....
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