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  #1  
Unread 08-10-2020, 12:13 PM
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Reincarnation and the idea that everyone is responsible for his/her own birth

Hi,

Over the years I'v been reading/listening/thinking about the idea that we have all chosen to be born. In other words, that our parents are not responsible for us being here. No matter how difficult circumstances, it is our choice. Maybe the word "intention" is a better fit, because, taking out karmic debts or needs, I don't think that we could actually chose among infinite number of possibilities.

I was just wandering, what is your take on that.
Also, if you have any books to suggest on that subject or articles, I would be very grateful!

Thank you!

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  #2  
Unread 08-11-2020, 03:35 AM
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Re: Reincarnation and the idea that everyone is responsible for his/her own birth

Are you familiar with the Seth books by Jane Roberts? She (they?) touch upon your point.
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Unread 08-11-2020, 04:34 AM
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Re: Reincarnation and the idea that everyone is responsible for his/her own birth

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahaira View Post
Hi,

Over the years I'v been reading/listening/thinking about the idea that we have all chosen to be born. In other words, that our parents are not responsible for us being here. No matter how difficult circumstances, it is our choice. Maybe the word "intention" is a better fit, because, taking out karmic debts or needs, I don't think that we could actually chose among infinite number of possibilities.

I was just wandering, what is your take on that.
Also, if you have any books to suggest on that subject or articles, I would be very grateful!

Thank you!
I have read that we pick our parents, sorry I can't remember the source. I kind of like the theory.

It upsets some, for instance, why would one choose to come into an abusive family? or choose to be a babe born of rape.

But, if you believe in the karmic debt theory, past lives, could have put them where they are.

Martin Schulman and his Karmic Astrology series, you would probably enjoy them.
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  #4  
Unread 08-11-2020, 06:47 AM
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Re: Reincarnation and the idea that everyone is responsible for his/her own birth

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In other words, that our parents are not responsible for us being here. No matter how difficult circumstances, it is our choice.
How can one believe such absurdities without proof?
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Unread 08-11-2020, 12:13 PM
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Re: Reincarnation and the idea that everyone is responsible for his/her own birth

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

How can one believe such absurdities without proof?

Absurd to claim much proof has not been destroyed
.
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Unread 08-11-2020, 12:18 PM
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Re: Reincarnation and the idea that everyone is responsible for his/her own birth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opal View Post


I have read that we pick our parents, sorry I can't remember the source. I kind of like the theory.

It upsets some, for instance, why would one choose to come into an abusive family? or choose to be a babe born of rape.

But, if you believe in the karmic debt theory, past lives, could have put them where they are.

Martin Schulman and his Karmic Astrology series, you would probably enjoy them.












Karma is aka Action




There are three BASIC types:

PHYSICAL action

VERBAL action

and

MENTAL action.

Every action leaves an imprint


Physical actions may produce tangible residue

whereas


verbal and mental karma create intangible imprints.


Analyze the trail of any karma
and one may be surprised

how it may wane
but

never gets destroyed completely.
It is the residue of each karma that conditions one


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  #7  
Unread 08-11-2020, 01:35 PM
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Re: Reincarnation and the idea that everyone is responsible for his/her own birth

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
How can one believe such absurdities without proof?
Your answer, or question, should be applied to your own chosen belief system. Blind faith for you, is fine, based on stories that you choose to believe, for your motivations.

Absurdities, come in many belief systems, yours is included.
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  #8  
Unread 08-11-2020, 02:47 PM
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Re: Reincarnation and the idea that everyone is responsible for his/her own birth

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Absurd to claim much proof has not been destroyed
.
''We may subvert their doctrine as to transmigration from body to body by this fact, that souls remember nothing whatever of the events which took place in their previous states of existence... With reference to these objections, Plato, that ancient Athenian, who also was the first to introduce this opinion, when he could not set them aside, invented a cup of oblivion, imagining that in this way he would escape this sort of difficulty. He attempted no kind of proof, but simply replied dogmatically, that when souls enter into this life, they are caused to drink of oblivion by that demon who watches their entrance, before they effect an entrance into the bodies. It escaped him, that he fell into another greater perplexity. For if the cup of oblivion, after it has been drunk, can obliterate the memory of all the deeds that have been done, how, O Plato, do you obtain the knowledge of this fact (since your soul is now in the body), that, before it entered into the body, it was made to drink by the demon a drug which caused oblivion? For if you have a remembrance of the demon, and the cup, and the entrance, you ought also to be acquainted with other things; but if, on the other hand, you are ignorant of them, then there is no truth in the story of the demon, nor in the cup of oblivion prepared with art.'' - Irenaeus 2.33 https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.iii.xxxiv.html

Therefore it is impossible to claim both that there is evidence of reincarnation, and that evidence is being obliterated.

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Absurdities, come in many belief systems, yours is included.
Not what the OP is about, but yes, indeed, there may be absurdities in my belief system, so please examine them with the same measure. I believe in the resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth, because it has more than five hundred eyewitnesses, some of who touched his body or talked with him eating and drinking, and because his guarded tomb was found empty. That is why I believe that people can be raised from the dead. Feel free to reject this claim if you do not find it convincing, but then you have to reject tons of other historical claims with the same measure, my fellow Libra.

Last edited by petosiris; 08-11-2020 at 04:00 PM.
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Unread 08-11-2020, 03:49 PM
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Re: Reincarnation and the idea that everyone is responsible for his/her own birth

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

How can one believe such absurdities without proof?



Absurd to claim much proof has not been destroyed

to assert that evidence has not been destroyed
is naive

multiple examples:
Hillary Clinton destroyed 30,000 emails
literally staff smashed the computer equipment with hammers
that's on record















another example
on our forum
entire posts are frequently deleted by moderators

to the extent that
threads lack coherence
because of missing content






.
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Unread 08-11-2020, 09:59 PM
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Re: Reincarnation and the idea that everyone is responsible for his/her own birth

For anyone willing to keep an **open mind** on reincarnation, I recommend these books:

Jim Tucker, M. D., Life Before Life and Return to Life.

He's a professor at the University of Virginia medical school, and a specialist in child psychiatry.

Tucker interviewed young children who seemed to recall past lives. Then his team of researchers sleuthed recent records to see if such a person actually existed. He found some striking confirmations, but he cautions (as a good scientist) that one cannot extrapolate too far from his results.

This one is amazing: https://www.npr.org/2014/01/05/25988...-reincarnation

Neither Jane Roberts/Seth or Tucker supported the Hindu idea of reincarnation with its belief in divine reward and punishment.

Roberts/Seth said that disincarnate souls choose the life most likely to lead to their spiritual growth. For example, a cruel person in a past life might choose to reincarnate as a victim, in order to experience and thus understand the impacts of cruelty and to evolve away from destructive behavior.

I don't think anything in the Bible actually says that souls incarnate and die only once. We owe that to Catholic doctrine.
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Unread 08-11-2020, 10:48 PM
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Re: Reincarnation and the idea that everyone is responsible for his/her own birth

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
How can one believe such absurdities without proof?
The totality of being is immense. Perhaps without bounds?
It seems to me a shame to limit oneself, to deny oneself consideration of all except that very small subset of being which can be proven.

This is not to denigrate in anyway the scientific method and that domain which can be proven. It is only to respectfully acknowledge its fairly well acknowledged limitation.
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Unread 08-11-2020, 10:51 PM
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Re: Reincarnation and the idea that everyone is responsible for his/her own birth

Thank you, JA. You made my day.
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Unread 08-11-2020, 10:56 PM
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Re: Reincarnation and the idea that everyone is responsible for his/her own birth

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I don't think anything in the Bible actually says that souls incarnate and die only once. We owe that to Catholic doctrine.
The New Testament says that it is appointed to die once (Hebr. 9:27) after which the soul goes to Sheol, either in Abraham's bosom or in place of torments (Luke 16:19-31). This place is temporary until the resurrection of the body spoken by the prophets Isaiah, Ezekiel and Daniel, first of the holy ones, and second of the wicked (and probably the righteous among the nations that survived the wrath, but died afterward) at the end of the thousand years. But how can all dead be raised if different bodies housed the same soul, in what body will the person be raised?

The only place that the Bible speaks of incarnation, which is a Latin translation for ''became flesh'', is John 1:14, and that clearly refers to the Word, Angel and first-begotten Son of God, who didn't have a human soul (Hebr. 10:5). Before he became flesh, he had the form (Phil. 2) or body of a God, since we are told (Gen. 18, John 8:56) that he appeared to Abraham and ate with him meat and milk together (which is said to be non-kosher according to your teachers).

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Tucker interviewed young children who seemed to recall past lives. Then his team of researchers sleuthed recent records to see if such a person actually existed. He found some striking confirmations, but he cautions (as a good scientist) that one cannot extrapolate too far from his results.
Most people do not ''remember'' their past lives. Waybread, there is a way someone could have told this child all these incredible matters. All religions have miracles from apparitions in front of thousands of people to fire falling down from the sky every year, that doesn't make their underlying claims true. Something may appear true on the outside, but actually be false and adversarial on the inside. How can we discern between miracles, but from their underlying motives and results? True signs and wonders always glorify the Creator - ''If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing'' (and are in accordance with the revelation given on Mount Sinai to 600000 men besides women and children).

Last edited by petosiris; 08-12-2020 at 12:10 AM.
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Unread 08-12-2020, 04:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post










Karma is aka Action




There are three BASIC types:

PHYSICAL action

VERBAL action

and

MENTAL action.

Every action leaves an imprint


Physical actions may produce tangible residue

whereas


verbal and mental karma create intangible imprints.


Analyze the trail of any karma
and one may be surprised

how it may wane
but

never gets destroyed completely.
It is the residue of each karma that conditions one


Ha, yes JA, we choose whether to enter the game, but can not control otherís destinies.
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Unread 08-12-2020, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
For anyone willing to keep an **open mind** on reincarnation, I recommend these books:

Jim Tucker, M. D., Life Before Life and Return to Life.

He's a professor at the University of Virginia medical school, and a specialist in child psychiatry.

Tucker interviewed young children who seemed to recall past lives. Then his team of researchers sleuthed recent records to see if such a person actually existed. He found some striking confirmations, but he cautions (as a good scientist) that one cannot extrapolate too far from his results.

This one is amazing: https://www.npr.org/2014/01/05/25988...-reincarnation

Neither Jane Roberts/Seth or Tucker supported the Hindu idea of reincarnation with its belief in divine reward and punishment.

Roberts/Seth said that disincarnate souls choose the life most likely to lead to their spiritual growth. For example, a cruel person in a past life might choose to reincarnate as a victim, in order to experience and thus understand the impacts of cruelty and to evolve away from destructive behavior.

I don't think anything in the Bible actually says that souls incarnate and die only once. We owe that to Catholic doctrine.
Thanks Waybread.
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Unread 08-12-2020, 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
The totality of being is immense. Perhaps without bounds?
It seems to me a shame to limit oneself, to deny oneself consideration of all except that very small subset of being which can be proven.

This is not to denigrate in anyway the scientific method and that domain which can be proven. It is only to respectfully acknowledge its fairly well acknowledged limitation.
Nicely stated Ilene K.
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  #17  
Unread 08-12-2020, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
''We may subvert their doctrine as to transmigration from body to body by this fact, that souls remember nothing whatever of the events which took place in their previous states of existence... With reference to these objections, Plato, that ancient Athenian, who also was the first to introduce this opinion, when he could not set them aside, invented a cup of oblivion, imagining that in this way he would escape this sort of difficulty. He attempted no kind of proof, but simply replied dogmatically, that when souls enter into this life, they are caused to drink of oblivion by that demon who watches their entrance, before they effect an entrance into the bodies. It escaped him, that he fell into another greater perplexity. For if the cup of oblivion, after it has been drunk, can obliterate the memory of all the deeds that have been done, how, O Plato, do you obtain the knowledge of this fact (since your soul is now in the body), that, before it entered into the body, it was made to drink by the demon a drug which caused oblivion? For if you have a remembrance of the demon, and the cup, and the entrance, you ought also to be acquainted with other things; but if, on the other hand, you are ignorant of them, then there is no truth in the story of the demon, nor in the cup of oblivion prepared with art.'' - Irenaeus 2.33 https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.iii.xxxiv.html

Therefore it is impossible to claim both that there is evidence of reincarnation, and that evidence is being obliterated.



Not what the OP is about, but yes, indeed, there may be absurdities in my belief system, so please examine them with the same measure. I believe in the resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth, because it has more than five hundred eyewitnesses, some of who touched his body or talked with him eating and drinking, and because his guarded tomb was found empty. That is why I believe that people can be raised from the dead. Feel free to reject this claim if you do not find it convincing, but then you have to reject tons of other historical claims with the same measure, my fellow Libra.
You are right, my response to your post has nothing to do with the OPís original post, because, your post had nothing to do with the original post.
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  #18  
Unread 08-12-2020, 05:37 AM
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Re: Reincarnation and the idea that everyone is responsible for his/her own birth

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You are right, my response to your post has nothing to do with the OPís original post, because, your post had nothing to do with the original post.
The OP is wandering and asking for a take on reincarnation and the idea that human descendants choose their human ancestors. The OP doesn't forbid a person from questioning that idea and possibility which defies normal language.
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Unread 08-12-2020, 05:43 AM
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Re: Reincarnation and the idea that everyone is responsible for his/her own birth

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
The OP is wandering and asking for a take on reincarnation and the idea that human descendants choose their human ancestors. The OP doesn't forbid a person from questioning that idea and possibility which defies normal language.

okay. I think.
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Unread 08-13-2020, 05:54 AM
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Re: Reincarnation and the idea that everyone is responsible for his/her own birth

Petosirus, I can see that you didn't follow up on Dr. Tucker's research. The methodology was extremely painstaking, precisely to minimize the chance of bias or alternative explanations.

So long as you insist on perpetrating falsehoods about "my teachers" I have nothing more to say to you on this thread. I explained this to you in a previous thread, in detail.
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Unread 08-13-2020, 06:47 AM
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Re: Reincarnation and the idea that everyone is responsible for his/her own birth

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Petosirus, I can see that you didn't follow up on Dr. Tucker's research. The methodology was extremely painstaking, precisely to minimize the chance of bias or alternative explanations.

So long as you insist on perpetrating falsehoods about "my teachers" I have nothing more to say to you on this thread. I explained this to you in a previous thread, in detail.
I've heard of the case before. I didn't necessarily mean someone born of a woman.

(I haven't said anything false about Jewish Rabbis. However, I didn't have to bring up this sidenote even in a jest in brackets and a . I doubt that you can provide OT justification (silence does not equal endorsement, just the opposite - there are warnings of learning the ways of the nations) of guf, gilgul and other ancient fables, or answer my objection that there can't be a universal resurrection with transmigration of souls from humans to humans.)
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Unread 08-13-2020, 01:09 PM
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Re: Reincarnation and the idea that everyone is responsible for his/her own birth

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I've heard of the case before. I didn't necessarily mean someone born of a woman.

(I haven't said anything false about Jewish Rabbis. However, I didn't have to bring up this sidenote even in a jest in brackets and a . I doubt that you can provide OT justification (silence does not equal endorsement, just the opposite - there are warnings of learning the ways of the nations) of guf, gilgul and other ancient fables, or answer my objection that there can't be a universal resurrection with transmigration of souls from humans to humans.)
You may not have noticed. This is not a Christian forum. It is an astrological forum. We are not here to prove anything to you, as many of us have repeatedly tried to talk with you on the expansive subject of astrology, you ask us to prove things based on a very narrow minded part of all scriptures to satisfy your beliefs.

The Bible is an ancient fable. It contains remnants of other ancient fables.

I have been lead to believe you used to be an interesting addition here, on the traditional board.

Now, you only debate the validity of your beliefs over others, attempting to shutting down discussion on astrology based on all ancient fables.

Most of us have transgressed down that road, long ago, fellow Libra Sun, and have been found by the truth of the real scriptures. In all my Mercury Libra fairness, I have tried to be fair with you, but you are always on square one. In the beginning.
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  #23  
Unread 08-13-2020, 05:41 PM
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Re: Reincarnation and the idea that everyone is responsible for his/her own birth

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You may not have noticed. This is not a Christian forum. It is an astrological forum. We are not here to prove anything to you, as many of us have repeatedly tried to talk with you on the expansive subject of astrology, you ask us to prove things based on a very narrow minded part of all scriptures to satisfy your beliefs.
I was replying to waybread. She wrote that the Bible (or the TaNaKh) doesn't say that people die once and that opposition to reincarnation only came through Roman Catholicism. I'd like to see some evidence behind that claim. The OP and your comments on this thread have little to do with astrology and are in the chat board. The forum is not Opal's forum, or the New Ager forum, or the anti-Christian forum, for you to disseminate yourself your personal beliefs, while forbidding quoting the Scriptures when respect in conversation and the ethical rules of the forum are followed.

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The Bible is an ancient fable. It contains remnants of other ancient fables.
I already gave you an objection to you calling hundreds of witnesses a fable. ''For we did not follow cleverly devised fables'' says Peter, an eyewitness of the majesty of Messiah, and ''not giving heed to Jewish fables and commands of men, turning themselves away from the truth'' says Paul who received a revelation of Messiah, the apostles who went with power of the Holy Spirit and signs and wonders and mighty deeds, not just preaching. An example of a Jewish fable (not all Jews believe in reincarnation) is that all remnant Jews and remnant converts like waybread have souls of the estimated 5 million people on Mount Sinai. This is strongly anti-biblical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opal View Post
I have been lead to believe you used to be an interesting addition here, on the traditional board.

Now, you only debate the validity of your beliefs over others, attempting to shutting down discussion on astrology based on all ancient fables.
What does that even mean? Sounds like you think you know all truth and that no one should ever bring counter-arguments to your position. That is a non-starter.

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Originally Posted by Opal View Post
Most of us have transgressed down that road, long ago, fellow Libra Sun, and have been found by the truth of the real scriptures. In all my Mercury Libra fairness, I have tried to be fair with you, but you are always on square one. In the beginning.
If anyone has mind to put more confidence in a nativity, I far more - with angular cazimi Mercury in Libra, with Jupiter in the 9th and Venus in the 3rd, an astrologer of astrologers, knowledgeable in all the traditions of the ancients. But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Messiah.

Last edited by petosiris; 08-13-2020 at 06:05 PM.
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Unread 08-13-2020, 09:20 PM
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Re: Reincarnation and the idea that everyone is responsible for his/her own birth

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post


I was replying to waybread. She wrote that the Bible (or the TaNaKh) doesn't say that people die once and that opposition to reincarnation only came through Roman Catholicism. I'd like to see some evidence behind that claim. The OP and your comments on this thread have little to do with astrology and are in the chat board. The forum is not Opal's forum, or the New Ager forum, or the anti-Christian forum, for you to disseminate yourself your personal beliefs, while forbidding quoting the Scriptures when respect in conversation and the ethical rules of the forum are followed.

I already gave you an objection to you calling hundreds of witnesses a fable. ''For we did not follow cleverly devised fables'' says Peter, an eyewitness of the majesty of Messiah, and ''not giving heed to Jewish fables and commands of men, turning themselves away from the truth'' says Paul who received a revelation of Messiah, the apostles who went with power of the Holy Spirit and signs and wonders and mighty deeds, not just preaching. An example of a Jewish fable (not all Jews believe in reincarnation) is that all remnant Jews and remnant converts like waybread have souls of the estimated 5 million people on Mount Sinai. This is strongly anti-biblical.

What does that even mean? Sounds like


you think you know all truth


and that no one should ever bring counter-arguments


to your position.


That is a non-starter.



Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
If anyone has mind to put more confidence in a nativity, I far more - with angular cazimi Mercury in Libra, with Jupiter in the 9th and Venus in the 3rd, an astrologer of astrologers, knowledgeable in all the traditions of the ancients. But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Messiah.
If the things you desire do not come it is due to
karma created long ago, therefore
keep a happy and relaxed mind.



.
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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Unread 08-13-2020, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
I was replying to waybread. She wrote that the Bible (or the TaNaKh) doesn't say that people die once and that opposition to reincarnation only came through Roman Catholicism. I'd like to see some evidence behind that claim. The OP and your comments on this thread have little to do with astrology and are in the chat board. The forum is not Opal's forum, or the New Ager forum, or the anti-Christian forum, for you to disseminate yourself your personal beliefs, while forbidding quoting the Scriptures when respect in conversation and the ethical rules of the forum are followed.



I already gave you an objection to you calling hundreds of witnesses a fable. ''For we did not follow cleverly devised fables'' says Peter, an eyewitness of the majesty of Messiah, and ''not giving heed to Jewish fables and commands of men, turning themselves away from the truth'' says Paul who received a revelation of Messiah, the apostles who went with power of the Holy Spirit and signs and wonders and mighty deeds, not just preaching. An example of a Jewish fable (not all Jews believe in reincarnation) is that all remnant Jews and remnant converts like waybread have souls of the estimated 5 million people on Mount Sinai. This is strongly anti-biblical.



What does that even mean? Sounds like you think you know all truth and that no one should ever bring counter-arguments to your position. That is a non-starter.



If anyone has mind to put more confidence in a nativity, I far more - with angular cazimi Mercury in Libra, with Jupiter in the 9th and Venus in the 3rd, an astrologer of astrologers, knowledgeable in all the traditions of the ancients. But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Messiah.
Actually I know the truth for me.

Waybread knows the truth for her.

JA, David, Monk and Leo moon, and many others here know the truth for themselves.

Petosiris knows his truth.

Everyone has there own personal belief.

You are rude at how you write to us, presuming your sources are, not fictional because you choose to believe your sources only.

We try to be polite to you, while you do not follow that at all, you have been rude in writing to everyone above.

Itís too bad really, your knowledge of the Bible is really good, but you canít stop being rude. I guess itís back to the concordance. It is a good read.
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