husbands mothers sun sign?

Spacecakes · Aug 16, 2020

trying to help a friend of mine...her husband was adopted and he never knew his biological mother, but since she discovered astrology she wants to see his mothers chart, he did manage to find his adoption papers but this is like a very long time ago...the papers got wet somehow in the basement dried up its a mess...so we managed to decode the date and the year but literally the month has become a blob of ink...the adoption agency couldnt help either they tried searching but not all data are saved by them so ANYWAY i think its possible to decode the month by doing a horary

so my best guess is...either leo or aquarius

the sun...the literal planet we are asking about is in leo opposing aquarius...the moon (mother) is in the 11th- so could be aquarius again...he (the husband) himself has his sun in aquarius...so could very well be aquarius or leo even because again opposing aspect

what do you guys think? leo aquarius or am i missing something here?

neptunian · Aug 18, 2020

Spacecakes said:
trying to help a friend of mine...her husband was adopted and he never knew his biological mother, but since she discovered astrology she wants to see his mothers chart, he did manage to find his adoption papers but this is like a very long time ago...the papers got wet somehow in the basement dried up its a mess...so we managed to decode the date and the year but literally the month has become a blob of ink...the adoption agency couldnt help either they tried searching but not all data are saved by them so ANYWAY i think its possible to decode the month by doing a horary

so my best guess is...either leo or aquarius

the sun...the literal planet we are asking about is in leo opposing aquarius...the moon (mother) is in the 11th- so could be aquarius again...he (the husband) himself has his sun in aquarius...so could very well be aquarius or leo even because again opposing aspect

what do you guys think? leo aquarius or am i missing something here?

Hi, Spacecakes

Did you ask the question or your friend asked? It changes which house represents which person.

Spacecakes · Aug 18, 2020

she elected the chart and sent it to me afterwards for interpretation

neptunian · Aug 18, 2020

Spacecakes said:
she elected the chart and sent it to me afterwards for interpretation

Ok.

In horary, mother is represented by the tenth house. Here firstly, spouse's ruler is saturn and he is in his twelfth house that shows the unknown things about himself. In the chart, the husband's tenth house ruler is mars which is in aries. His mother could be an aries or a fire sign. Her significator is in aries which is sun's exaltation sign; so leo is another possibility. Sun also trines mars,mother's significator.

My another guess is cancer; but it could be sun moon asc or another placement maybe asc ruler. Because Moon is the planet represents mother. But maybe moon and cancer energy can represent his adoptive mother here.

I calculated the lot of mother. It falls in aries too. Sun moon or rising maybe falls in aries. If not aries, other fire signs could be. If his adoptive mother doesn't have cancer placements, then her biological mother can have cancer placement.

Sometimes moon's house in the natal chart tells the mother's sign; so i suggest you to look at the sign and house placement of moon in her husband's chart.

Is there someone in his adoptive family who knows his birth parents, sometimes adoptive families know the birth parents. I don't know their situation though. I'm also an adopted child; I can understand...

As a conclusion, I think her sun sign can be aries, leo or cancer.

What is the husband's north node sign?

Spacecakes · Aug 18, 2020

north node is in virgo/pisces

the reason i PERSONALLY think the mothers sun sign is either leo or aquarius is because he (the husband) has 5 planets in aquarius...sun mars jupiter mercury uranus

so i was already thinking that it had to be leo or aquarius and then her horary chart kind of immediately had me like...of course these two signs come up...

also the sun being IN leo makes me wonder, do we sometimes make things more difficult than needed and it can be just as simple as, she asked the sun sign..so what sign is the sun in? leo...well there you go...

yes they are trying to figure out some other ways of finding out the date, i think they are going to try to call the hospital he was born in so hopefully i will actually have an answer to this one!

neptunian, just for interests sake, if you had to make one final pick for the sun sign- what would you go for?

neptunian · Aug 19, 2020

Spacecakes said:
north node is in virgo/pisces

the reason i PERSONALLY think the mothers sun sign is either leo or aquarius is because he (the husband) has 5 planets in aquarius...sun mars jupiter mercury uranus

so i was already thinking that it had to be leo or aquarius and then her horary chart kind of immediately had me like...of course these two signs come up...

also the sun being IN leo makes me wonder, do we sometimes make things more difficult than needed and it can be just as simple as, she asked the sun sign..so what sign is the sun in? leo...well there you go...

yes they are trying to figure out some other ways of finding out the date, i think they are going to try to call the hospital he was born in so hopefully i will actually have an answer to this one!

neptunian, just for interests sake, if you had to make one final pick for the sun sign- what would you go for?

This strong aquarius energy can be reflected in her chart; she can have a planet in aquarius; sun moon maybe her ascendant or saturn..

Looking at this horary chart,

I'd pick aries first;

but as i said, i also get leo and cancer. Leo is also strong; sun conjunct ascendant at that moment, trines mother's significator. I can't choose between actually. Since this type of horaries rare, I'm not sure where to focus exactly.
I asked a horary once about myself, ascendant ruler was in 8 degrees cancer. I must have my sun near to this degree, the answer was logical. So sometimes the answer can be more simple yes. If the person asks himself the question, can be easier to understand the chart.

Also Spacecakes, we need to look at his natal moon sign, its house, aspects; and we should consider 4th/10th house rulers so that we can have a better idea about his mother. If you want, you can pm. Especially i wonder the person's moon sign. For example; my brother's moon conjunct my mother's sun. Combining natal chart with horary can give more idea.

I expect to see node or saturn connection between their charts.

I hope you will be able to learn the birthdate. Knowing the outcome also can be a good example about how to approach interpreting the chart for such a question.

Spacecakes · Aug 19, 2020

her husband is an aries ascendant btw...

im going to follow my gut here and stick to leo..it just intuitively makes sense to me

ill report back when/if they find out and perhaps when we will know the answer we can look at the horary and understand better...

neptunian · Aug 19, 2020

Spacecakes said:
her husband is an aries ascendant btw...

im going to follow my gut here and stick to leo..it just intuitively makes sense to me

ill report back when/if they find out and perhaps when we will know the answer we can look at the horary and understand better...

Thanks for mentioning the person's ascendant sign. The mother can have the same sign as ascendant, sun or moon.

Yes sometimes gut feeling is right.

I tried to look at house rulers and aspects. Also my gut feeling tells a fire sign too.

known outcome for such a question can be really helpful. We can have an idea about interpreting this type of horary questions better.

Hope you'll learn it. Good luck.

Spacecakes · Aug 22, 2020

they found out!

she was born in february , we have just seen her chart (no birthtime though but that seems like mission impossible maybe do a horary on that?)

anyways....drumroll please .....

her sunsign is aquarius

and not only that she is a double aquarius, her moon is in aqua too- doesnt change no matter how early or late you set the time

interestingly enough the degrees of her aqua sun and moon are very close to the degrees of the sun and mercury in the horary chart....

so how could we have seen the aqua sun (and moon here) what do you guys think?

neptunian · Aug 22, 2020

Moon's last aspect is with uranus. That is the only aquarian thing i can see from the chart. Seems that it is difficult to anwer such a question with horary. At least for this one.
Here on the forum i got to know that Kp astrology has a method to rectify birth time using ruling planets. But I don't know it.

Januarystorm · Aug 22, 2020

neptunian said:
Moon's last aspect is with uranus. That is the only aquarian thing i can see from the chart. Seems that it is difficult to anwer such a question with horary. At least for this one.
Here on the forum i got to know that Kp astrology has a method to rectify birth time using ruling planets. But I don't know it.

knowing the answer now i think i get what the chart is trying to tell
she asked her husbands mothers sun sign, the descendant is aquarius, 4th from the descendant becomes the original house of mother, 4th from the 7th is the 10th house, uranus is in that house, the ruler of aquarius.

second thing is that maybe if we cut off all the husbands mother blabla and just see this as one person asking about another persons sun sign, the answer is aquarius as the descendant (7th house rules ALL other people not just the spouse) and why not leo, because the sun is in the first house, meaning its the one asking the question, where does the sun look at- the opposite direction- aquarius.

the moon in the 11th- the original house of aquarius also makes sense now- since her moon is in aquarius too

Ouranos · Aug 22, 2020

Hello Spacecakes,

Here is a Chaldean method inspired by Arthyr W. Chadbourne.
We know that she is born in February - Her Sun will run from 12 to 30 Aquarius.
From Feb 1st to 19th.
** Draw the charts at prior sunset on these dates above.
** Take the exact position of the Moon for each date at sunset and calculate all the major aspects it will make between each sunset.(Use an aspectarian)
** Each degree of the Moon will equal to 6 years of life
** Knowing when he was adopted, the adoption should correspond to a Saturn or Pluto event (by aspects) in the mother's chart.

Kind regards,
Ouranos

Spacecakes · Aug 22, 2020

Ouranos said:
Hello Spacecakes,

Here is a Chaldean method inspired by Arthyr W. Chadbourne.
We know that she is born in February - Her Sun will run from 12 to 30 Aquarius.
From Feb 1st to 19th.
** Draw the charts at prior sunset on these dates above.
** Take the exact position of the Moon for each date at sunset and calculate all the major aspects it will make between each sunset.(Use an aspectarian)
** Each degree of the Moon will equal to 6 years of life
** Knowing when he was adopted, the adoption should correspond to a Saturn or Pluto event (by aspects) in the mother's chart.

Kind regards,
Ouranos

no we had the date, only the month was un-identifiable, so we just needed to know what sign her sun was in, i couldnt really tell from the horary but they found out through the hospital she gave birth in and it was february, so she is an aqua sun...the thing is i still dont REALLY see how i would have seen that from the horary...what do you think? do you see how things point to aquarius? to add to this she also has her moon in aquarius...double aquarius

Ouranos · Aug 23, 2020

I see. Multiple questions are tricky. In this case choosing from 12 signs.
But you also gave a hint (or a guess) between 2 signs. In this case, look for the 2 choices and try to see which one fits the physical description best.

Lilly (CA p. 99) gives this description of Aquarius
"SHAPE AND FORM.*It presents a squat, thick Corporature, or one of a strong, well composed Body, not tall; a long Visage, sanguine Complexion; if Saturn who is Lord of this house, be in Capricorn or Aquarius, the party is black in Hair, and in Complexion sanguine, with distorted Teeth; otherwayes, I have observed the party is of cleer, white or fair Complexion, and of sandy coloured Hair, or very flaxen, and a very pure Skin."

I have seen on Astro-seek.com in the section Guess the Zodiac Sign, someone who was accurate like over 90% of the time just looking at a picture of someone. Good to test your own knowledge!

The method in my previous post is still good to determine the rising Sign as you now have the date.

I just realized I should have given more info on this method.
And by the way, it can also be used for any known birth times.

Let's take today as an example
Casting the chart for the previous sunset, we find the Moon at 23 Libra 37
Doing the same for today's sunset, the Moon is at 8 Scorpio 07
So today, the Moon will travel 14 degrees 30 minutes

The Chaldean method says 1 degree = 6 years of life
Looking at the Ptolemaic aspects, starting from the previous sunset, if the person was born exactly at previous sunset, we would find
- The Moon squares Mars in 2 degrees 31 = 15 years of life
- The Moon squares Saturn in 2 degrees 52 = 17 years 1/2
Now, if you advance the natal chart ASC at the beginning of each sign, you will find that the natal Moon will advance about 1 degree every 2 hours, slightly more here, which represents 6 years of life, which will throw off the time the Moon will make a square to Mars and Saturn.
Knowing a person's life, we would validate the rising sign when a Mars and a Saturn event happened. Let yourself be guided by the natal signification of Mars and Saturn.

What I like about this method is that it echoes the Primary Directions.
Essentially, your destiny can be read from the first 6 hours after birth from the rotation of the Earth.

Cheers!
Ouranos

neptunian · Aug 23, 2020

Januarystorm said:
knowing the answer now i think i get what the chart is trying to tell
she asked her husbands mothers sun sign, the descendant is aquarius, 4th from the descendant becomes the original house of mother, 4th from the 7th is the 10th house, uranus is in that house, the ruler of aquarius.

second thing is that maybe if we cut off all the husbands mother blabla and just see this as one person asking about another persons sun sign, the answer is aquarius as the descendant (7th house rules ALL other people not just the spouse) and why not leo, because the sun is in the first house, meaning its the one asking the question, where does the sun look at- the opposite direction- aquarius.

the moon in the 11th- the original house of aquarius also makes sense now- since her moon is in aquarius too

Yeah you're right Januarystorm, 7th cusp is aquarius. Uranus is in the fourth if we take fourth from the seventh. Good you made me realize about it. :smile:

Since the question asked by the wife, i took seventh as husband and tenth from the seventh as the mother. Things got complicated. I am not sure which house for mother and which house for father between 4th and 10th.

As you said moon in the 11th, it makes sense. It seems that moon is important here maybe it is because it is the planet for mother. Then moon stands for the birth mother here.
I conclude that there are implications for aquarius in the chart.

If we can analyze a few similar horaries, we can conclude more about these type of questions. It was a good experiment.

Spacecakes · Aug 23, 2020

neptunian said:
Yeah you're right Januarystorm, 7th cusp is aquarius. Uranus is in the fourth if we take fourth from the seventh. Good you made me realize about it.

Since the question asked by the wife, i took seventh as husband and tenth from the seventh as the mother. Things got complicated. I am not sure which house for mother and which house for father between 4th and 10th.

As you said moon in the 11th, it makes sense. It seems that moon is important here maybe it is because it is the planet for mother. Then moon stands for the birth mother here.
I conclude that there are implications for aquarius in the chart.

If we can analyze a few similar horaries, we can conclude more about these type of questions. It was a good experiment.

ok my friend just casted a horary to find out the ascendant sign

and now i think i get the ENTIRE picture

i think his mother is a taurus ascendant with an aquarius sun

thats what the first chart is trying to tell...uranus (ruler of aquarius) in taurus) moon in scorpio aspecting taurus...venus the ruler of taurus in cancer sign of the mother...

i believe it makes sense to me esp now i see the second chart i think it makes sense

btw if her ASC is taurus, her chart ruler venus is in aries which would confirm a lot of what neptunian said

neptunian · Aug 23, 2020

Spacecakes said:
ok my friend just casted a horary to find out the ascendant sign

and now i think i get the ENTIRE picture

i think his mother is a taurus ascendant with an aquarius sun

thats what the first chart is trying to tell...uranus (ruler of aquarius) in taurus) moon in scorpio aspecting taurus...venus the ruler of taurus in cancer sign of the mother...

i believe it makes sense to me esp now i see the second chart i think it makes sense

btw if her ASC is taurus, her chart ruler venus is in aries which would confirm a lot of what neptunian said

Thanks for the feedback Spacecakes. Yes, i got aries energy first. But after knowing the answer and reading Januarystorm's point of view, i saw aquarius in the chart too.
I am not professional; but i really like astrology. Since i'm an adopted child, i am very interested in such questions. I looked at sooo many charts of adopted people on astrodatabank. :lol:

This is horary though. I know there are people like me who have same ambiguities.

For understanding ascendant, you can also focus on asc ruler. Because ascendant ruler house position is very important and tells a lot about the native's life. Also, she can have neptune in the fifth or fifth ruler aspected by neptune. Is there any planet aspected by neptune in her chart? this planet could be her fifth ruler.

Spacecakes · Aug 23, 2020

neptunian said:
Thanks for the feedback Spacecakes. Yes, i got aries energy first. But after knowing the answer and reading Januarystorm's point of view, i saw aquarius in the chart too.
I am not professional; but i really like astrology. Since i'm an adopted child, i am very interested in such questions. I looked at sooo many charts of adopted people on astrodatabank. This is horary though. I know there are people like me who have same ambiguities.

For understanding ascendant, you can also focus on asc ruler. Because ascendant ruler house position is very important and tells a lot about the native's life. Also, she can have neptune in the fifth or fifth ruler aspected by neptune. Is there any planet aspected by neptune in her chart? this planet could be her fifth ruler.

why is neptune suddenly so important i dont get it?

she has a looooot of neptune aspects in her chart:

sun sextile neptune
moon sextile neptune
mercury square neptune
saturn square neptune
neptune sextile pluto

neptunian · Aug 24, 2020

Spacecakes said:
why is neptune suddenly so important i dont get it?

she has a looooot of neptune aspects in her chart:

sun sextile neptune
moon sextile neptune
mercury square neptune
saturn square neptune
neptune sextile pluto

Neptune represents many things. But for adoption; it can represent disappearance, letting go or sacrifice, foggy situations, abandonment issues etc.
Uranus can repressent sudden seperation.
Saturn lacking of something.

That's my observation, i saw harsh aspects of neptune to fifth ruler and also neptune being in the fifth.
I can't say it will show up in every case. According to the situation, things can change.
Actually, it can be better to see her chart to figure out her ascendant.

You say mercury and saturn squared by neptune. Analyze the chart, assuming mercury rules her fifth and then saturn rules her fifth. Will one of them make sense? because you know the story and chart. Then you can compare the chart with her son's chart. For example; my friend's fifth house ruler conjunct her son's ascendant ruler, amazing. :smile:

neptunian · Aug 24, 2020

Ouranos said:
I see. Multiple questions are tricky. In this case choosing from 12 signs.
But you also gave a hint (or a guess) between 2 signs. In this case, look for the 2 choices and try to see which one fits the physical description best.

Lilly (CA p. 99) gives this description of Aquarius
"SHAPE AND FORM.*It presents a squat, thick Corporature, or one of a strong, well composed Body, not tall; a long Visage, sanguine Complexion; if Saturn who is Lord of this house, be in Capricorn or Aquarius, the party is black in Hair, and in Complexion sanguine, with distorted Teeth; otherwayes, I have observed the party is of cleer, white or fair Complexion, and of sandy coloured Hair, or very flaxen, and a very pure Skin."

I have seen on Astro-seek.com in the section Guess the Zodiac Sign, someone who was accurate like over 90% of the time just looking at a picture of someone. Good to test your own knowledge!

The method in my previous post is still good to determine the rising Sign as you now have the date.

I just realized I should have given more info on this method.
And by the way, it can also be used for any known birth times.

Let's take today as an example
Casting the chart for the previous sunset, we find the Moon at 23 Libra 37
Doing the same for today's sunset, the Moon is at 8 Scorpio 07
So today, the Moon will travel 14 degrees 30 minutes

The Chaldean method says 1 degree = 6 years of life
Looking at the Ptolemaic aspects, starting from the previous sunset, if the person was born exactly at previous sunset, we would find
- The Moon squares Mars in 2 degrees 31 = 15 years of life
- The Moon squares Saturn in 2 degrees 52 = 17 years 1/2
Now, if you advance the natal chart ASC at the beginning of each sign, you will find that the natal Moon will advance about 1 degree every 2 hours, slightly more here, which represents 6 years of life, which will throw off the time the Moon will make a square to Mars and Saturn.
Knowing a person's life, we would validate the rising sign when a Mars and a Saturn event happened. Let yourself be guided by the natal signification of Mars and Saturn.

What I like about this method is that it echoes the Primary Directions.
Essentially, your destiny can be read from the first 6 hours after birth from the rotation of the Earth.

Cheers!
Ouranos

Hey, that is interesting.
I want to try it for my brother. Sunset at one day before his birthday, moon 3 degrees 58' aries.
Sunset at his birthday; moon in 16 degrees 0' aries.

Ouranos, i didn't understand the rest.

what is the next step?

husbands mothers sun sign?

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