What is\valid?

I'm takin a wild guess on where to post this but ,for my question

In lieu of someones birth time which aspects/planets does one not focus on.I know the rising sign wont be right but other than that I'm not sure which planets move a lot within the day.I am curious both natally and relationally ( like aspects do you pay attention to in synastry or compostites when you have one time but not the other ? )

Any help with this is greatly appreciated

p.s sorry about the typo in the subject >.<

Nothing is valid in a natal chart without the correct time and place of birth. Make every effort to find this information before interpreting someone's chart or you may ruin their life if they take you seriously. Astrology is a science not a parlor game.

This is for my own personal curiosity.Am I supposed to stalk someone or something ?If they don't know their time there is nothing you can do.But You don't have to come off as a **** to me when I was asking a simple question.
Who are you to assume anything about MY intentions .. if I have to ask that question in the first place does it make any sense that I would be trying to accurately read someones chart ?What's with the snarky condescending comment at the end there?How is that at all constructive?
I happen to see a lot of people at least making generalizations based on a chart with no birth time.Why,in fact are you even able to draw up a birth chart with unknown time or given the advice to use"12:00pm" if there wasn't one aspect that still holds true based on date and place then why would there even be an option to do so? I ask a question an innocuous question at that and I get rudeness which is just ridiculous.

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Here's a nice sample of what I would deem a proper response according to what you believe.

" Well it is my belief that without an accurate birth time or place one can make no valid assumptions or interpretations based on that information.If you are attempting to read someones chart for them or give them any advice with no birth time/place you could be giving them inaccurate information which they could take seriously and could impact them negatively. "

Tact .. wow what a concept.

I am tired of seeing people ask questions and getting rude and insulting replies.Or reading threads where people say their goodbyes cause people were just being downright toxic to them for no reason. [comment deleted by moderator] (now im generalizing ) I cannot wrap my head around this at all.If people went around in their daily lives acting the way some people put their point across there would be many scores of people with fat lips and black eyes (not to say that there isn't ).I'd wager if this forum or many others were a grocery store there would be bloodshed over which brand of diapers to buy.And generally speaking I doubt that those brimming with acrimony are at the mall telling relative strangers "how it is" because they might incur bodily injury for doing so because people have feelings and they don't like it when you hurt them or disregard them or make them feel like an idiot.What ever happened to "If you don't have something night to say you ought not say it at all?" or just freaking treating people with a shred of decency and respect.

I know this is horribly off topic and it can be deleted or whatever but I had to speak my peace.I couldn't find any specific information on the subject I was asking about so as a last resort I decided to ask this forums opinion which I guess was a mistake.Also the "can't take the heat , get out of the kitchen "can be omitted from any possible responses to this.Because although I don't like the awful negative cyber tone that seems to be rampant with people that think they are better than everyone else, I also think there are some wonderful and intelligent people here that really have a gift with communication with other people and the generosity to share thier insights and knowlege.A few bad apples don't spoil the bunch.That being said,I won't be talked to that way and lay down and take it and not fight back for what I believe to be an egregious violation of common courtesy towards me.The reply wasn't conducive to any kind of growth of knowledge,just condescending and disrespectful.

Pardon my over reaction but it botherd me quite a bit
My peace has been spoken , over and out.

emotionality said:

This is for my own personal curiosity.Am I supposed to stalk someone or something ?If they don't know their time there is nothing you can do.

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Sure there is. You can try to rectify the chart using past events to pinpoint the birth time as close as possible.

Someone who is introverted and somewhat biased and subjective probably has the majority of their planets in the night sky, thus a pm birth or early morning birth, so using a birth time of 6:00 pm or midnight might yield better results than simply a noon chart or flat wheel.

emotionality said:

Why,in fact are you even able to draw up a birth chart with unknown time or given the advice to use"12:00pm" if there wasn't one aspect that still holds true based on date and place then why would there even be an option to do so?

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They are probably looking at the placement of planets in signs, not aspects between the planets.

Because the outer planets move incredibly slow, usually no more than 1 or 2 minutes per day, their aspects will not change.

Jupiter retrograde at 13 Cap 03' at midnight will only move 3 minutes in a 24 hour period. If it is in square with Uranus, that will not change.

emotionality said:

I am curious both natally and relationally ( like aspects do you pay attention to in synastry or compostites when you have one time but not the other ?

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The reason you didn't find an answer is because synastry and composites require exact birth times, while general readings from natal charts do not.

In synastry, the relationship of the Sun, Moon, and Venus are incredibly important (as is Mercury) and the planets move too quickly in a 24-hour period to attempt a delineation without the correct birth time.

Thank You Bob Zemeco that was indeed very helpful And its very interesting about what you said about the being born at night I never knew that so that is brillant information there ^^

As far as synastry and that kinda thing goes , even knowing the the general positon of the planets in the houses would be helpful to me.So say if I am looking at a chart with no birth time that's what I should pay more attention to right? ( the planets/positions in the houses )As a rough draft sorta?

When I plug in the info on astro.com it does give me a chart with some aspect lines in it ..is it safe to say that's good to go off of?

Could I even compare the planets,positions and few aspects ( that are known to be accurate , if they are lol which is why I am asking you ) to another chart to get a general idea?

Thank you again

emotionality said:

Tact .. wow what a concept.

I am tired of seeing people ask questions and getting rude and insulting replies.Or reading threads where people say their goodbyes cause people were just being downright toxic to them for no reason.Is it because your behind a computer screen that you feel free to be a jerk because there is no retribution for it ?( now im generalizing ) I cannot wrap my head around this at all.If people went around in their daily lives acting the way some people put their point across there would be many scores of people with fat lips and black eyes (not to say that there isn't ).I'd wager if this forum or many others were a grocery store there would be bloodshed over which brand of diapers to buy.And generally speaking I doubt that those brimming with acrimony are at the mall telling relative strangers "how it is" because they might incur bodily injury for doing so because people have feelings and they don't like it when you hurt them or disregard them or make them feel like an idiot.What ever happened to "If you don't have something night to say you ought not say it at all?" or just freaking treating people with a shred of decency and respect.

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I hope this doesn't get deleted emotionality, as it's well said and (regrettably) appears to be increasingly in need of saying these days. However, Culpepper is actually amongst the most helpful and courteous of this forum's members - as I'm sure you will discover yourself in time.

In relation to your question though, the value of the Natural Chart is often under-rated by astrologers these days - but it works well for me when the time is unknown, both for natal and synastry charts. So, try using the Equal House system with 0 degrees Aries as the ascendant - perhaps checking out results for your own chart first. (In synastry, I'd use the Natural Chart of both individuals if the time is known only for one.)

Welcome to the forum btw - I love your straight-talking and willingness to "wear your heart on your sleeve". It reminds me of someone I used to know well.

EJ

emotionality said:

..As far as synastry and that kinda thing goes , even knowing the the general positon of the planets in the houses would be helpful to me.So say if I am looking at a chart with no birth time that's what I should pay more attention to right? ( the planets/positions in the houses )As a rough draft sorta?

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As Bob says, the problem here is the speed at which the inner planets move - sun/moon/mercury/venus/mars respectively move around 1/12/1+/1+/1 degree per day - and the margin of error doubles if the time of both charts is unknown.

However, if you bear this in mind, I'd say you can assume a noon position to be "acceptable" for everything except the moon - particularly if you know the time of one chart to be correct. But, to be on the safe side, stick with aspects that have an orb of no more than 2 degrees if the time of one is known (and 1 degree if it is not).

Note - the house cusps cannot be relied upon at all - your analysis must be confined to planet aspects and signs.

..When I plug in the info on astro.com it does give me a chart with some aspect lines in it ..is it safe to say that's good to go off of?

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If it's a noon chart, my comments above apply - but astro.com use very wide orbs.

...Could I even compare the planets,positions and few aspects that are known to be accurate...to another chart to get a general idea?

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Yes, subject to the limitations explained above.

Finally, Culpepper's comment is extremely valid - so, take care to understand the limitations involved. The best you're going to get is "a general idea" of potential problems and strengths.

EJ

EJ -- That is indeed very useful.I am versed well enough to know the general idea of what your saying about the orbs.So if I am to attempt to gather some kind of information about this chart I should concentrate on the outer planets and what signs they fall in.

I will try the equal houses 0 deg Aries on my chart and see how it pans out

As for Culpepper,I did go through some of their posts and their intelligence is clearly evident and I respect that.I just did not appreciate this person insinuating that I would be irresponsible toward another person in that way without knowing for sure that that was my intention.I would have appreciated being asked first.

As well as insinuating that I don't respect astrology when it is in fact something that I feel has given me great personal focus in my life ( knowing via my NN [in part]that I am on the right track & that how I naturally feel and have always felt is where I am supposed to be going and walking the path that I must) and much insight into my own self and proclivities as well as others'.I regard it as sacred and the furthest thing from a "parlor game".I regard it as a spiritual tool that I have been gifted with the curiosity to learn it and to learn from it.To think I came across to anyone in that fashion vexed me a bit and served as a catalyst for expressing how I felt in more general terms.

And thank you for your input ,welcome and kind words
I have been around since april or so just have changed my name recently which I posted on the "Your astrology screen name" (or something of the like name ) thread.I wasn't all that happy with it and I only had posted a few times so before I got involved any further I decided to change it

Again pardon the personal comments , moderate them if needed ,just letting the world or whomever reads this to know where I stand and that I harbor no ill will towards anyone and that I have and have explained my reasons for reacting the way that I did Being very Librian (and having a first house moon) ..I needs to get my words an my feelings expessed succintly ^^

Your knowledge has been very helpful and I appreciate it and any other insights I may gain

What I do when I don't have a time, I make a chart for 0:10 and see what changes when recalculated for 23:50. Then I consider what aspects are for sure and speculate on what not. There is always information to gather. Even though I never rely on rectifications or assumed aspects, it does make for an interesting mental challenge.

emotionality said:

...So if I am to attempt to gather some kind of information about this chart I should concentrate on the outer planets and what signs they fall in....

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Nate's approach will reveal the maximum amount by which each aspect could be out - so you can use every one of them that falls within orb, allowing for that maximum "potential error".

Thus, only the houses and aspects involving the moon are a definite "no go" area.

After allowing for Nate's "maximum error", you can use all planet sign locations and aspects to gather information - but the house positions are meaningless. And aspects to the moon cannot be used reliably either, although it's sign position can.

So, with care, a noon chart should give you some useful insights.

EJ