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  #1  
Unread 08-25-2013, 12:35 AM
GuyWithWeirdChart GuyWithWeirdChart is offline
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Mars Conjunct Saturn - Most frustrating aspect?

Would you consider mars conjunct saturn in natal to be one of the most frustrating aspects there is if not the most frustrating?

I have this as well as mars parallel saturn so it's like a double conjunct and I always feel like other people are trying to bring me down and anger me, especially my selfish father. This takes away my energy and motivation and it makes things way harder. There also seems to be endless obstacles that a lot of other people I know don't have to deal with. Personal stuff.

Yet when I was in middle school I had a healthy mind and my father didn't live with us back then (my mom let him live with us because she feels bad for him, he's a bum) so I always had energy and in my opinion it was almost as if I had the mars saturn trine, very disciplined and good energy.


What do you think of this aspect?

Here is my chart.

http://imgur.com/aXrZtcl


Last edited by GuyWithWeirdChart; 08-25-2013 at 01:47 AM.
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Unread 08-25-2013, 01:41 AM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Re: Mars Conjunct Saturn - Most frustrating aspect?

While you've posted your chart before, not everyone has it. Without a chart, we're just giving you the texbook answer.
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Unread 08-25-2013, 01:47 AM
GuyWithWeirdChart GuyWithWeirdChart is offline
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Re: Mars Conjunct Saturn - Most frustrating aspect?

Well I was sorta just asking about the aspect in general, but I posted my chart on the intro post.
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Unread 08-25-2013, 03:49 AM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Re: Mars Conjunct Saturn - Most frustrating aspect?

Most astrologers here will not take the time to search through all your posts looking for your chart.

Mars Conjunct Saturn can be difficult only if its difficult in YOUR chart. if Mars and Saturn have no power in your chart then no matter how difficult they might look like in a text book definition, they will have little real impact to you.

This is WHY it is necessary to see your chart.


On your chart there are many other aspects which are more powerful and many which are more friction producing.

For example, in terms of something that requires serious work to resolve, the Mars Square Pluto is way more difficult for you to deal with than the Mars conjunct Saturn. But that's something that simply requires hard work to solve--a lot of it but if you keep your nose to the grindstone you can do it.

While the Jupiter opposite the ASC is less friction producing than the Mars Square ASC, its a very powerful aspect, and since its an opposition, in many ways its much harder to deal with than the square. For an opposition you can't simply work hard to solve it, you have to have some kind of break through; you have to do something you wouldn't normally think of or it will remain unsolved; and you have to take chances that you wouldn't normally take. And since its with your ASC, and Jupiter represents things expanding and sometimes getting out of hand, this potentially for you way more significant than the original with the conjunction.

The weakest point in an opposition is its midpoint, and thus the midpoint is the place where it will describe how it might be solved, so you would need to explore the midpoint picture for these two. This is 16Leo. Since there is no planet there you would need to explore asteroids, arabic parts, sensitive points, fixed stars, imaginary planets, trans-neputnians, etc. and even persona charts to define in what way you need to break through this glass ceiling. This is what an opposition is: a glass ceiling. Its there but you can't see exactly where it is.

Please don't peg all your issues on the Mars Saturn conjunction. There are a number of more serious issues in front of it in the cue line.

Last edited by Zarathu; 08-25-2013 at 04:24 AM.
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Unread 08-25-2013, 05:22 AM
GuyWithWeirdChart GuyWithWeirdChart is offline
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Re: Mars Conjunct Saturn - Most frustrating aspect?

Alright thank you good sir. I appreciate you taking the time to answer.
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Unread 08-25-2013, 05:35 AM
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Re: Mars Conjunct Saturn - Most frustrating aspect?

When I saw what you wrote here, it reminded me of a person with Mars in Pisces. He talks like you all the time. Funny to see that you have Mars in Pisces also.

Your Saturn and Mars conjunction are very close to these two fixed stars. You can have a look as a reference particularly you have parallel aspect as well. You might feel better after reading the following.


FORMALHAUT - [3 degrees of Pisces]
Watcher of the South.
The effects of this star can be variable, for better or for worse. This star can bring success and financial wealth, but there is often very hard work along with plenty of responsibility. It can increases and amplify whatever planet it conjuncts.

DENEB ADIGE - [4 degrees of Pisces]
This star often gives above average intelligence, and an idealistic nature. Money can be made through the arts and sciences. There is often psychic talent and a likable disposition.



http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serp...6/Degrees.html
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Unread 08-25-2013, 06:04 AM
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Re: Mars Conjunct Saturn - Most frustrating aspect?

Well i'm glad I was able to remind you of somebody you know, that's always nice
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Unread 08-26-2013, 09:21 PM
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Re: Mars Conjunct Saturn - Most frustrating aspect?

Hi. As has been pointed out, there is more to your frustration than the Mars Saturn conjunction. Mars is in Pisces in the 11th and making a t square with Saturn, Chiron and Pluto. Plus there is a general emphasis on Pisces and the 11th house which is reiterated by the Moon contacting Uranus and Neptune. Interestingly, The Moon is in Saturn's sign, so the survival urges (Moon and Mars) are both affected in similar ways - needing to get to grips with 'reality' and yet struggling to focus on the here and now due to a yearning for something more ideal.

Your Mars suggests that you aren't naturally predisposed to express your assertive energy in a clear and straightforward manner. I think its important to keep in mind that you probably share this tendency with your father. He seems to have admitted defeated to a large extent. You won't necessarily become 'a bum' yourself, but you have to start from a similar place that he started from, and if you condemn him for his weakness and selfishness then you will find it difficult to embrace and integrate your own shadow.

If you can forgive your father for his failure to get to grips with his issues, then you will have more chance of working creatively with your own issues.

Your Mars aspects suggest the likelihood of a disgruntled, disempowered and power-hungry inner child. You may benefit from checking out with yourself how you are like your father so that you can nurture this inner child into a more competent and creative adult than the prospect which your father presents to you (thereby scaring the hell out of you no doubt).

These are just my thoughts anyway.
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Unread 08-26-2013, 09:30 PM
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Re: Mars Conjunct Saturn - Most frustrating aspect?

It's a really good aspect for toughness. Chris Weidman (who just became the ufc champ by knocking out Anderson Silva) has Mars conjunct Saturn.
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Unread 08-26-2013, 10:27 PM
GuyWithWeirdChart GuyWithWeirdChart is offline
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Re: Mars Conjunct Saturn - Most frustrating aspect?

Thank you Miquar for your very detailed reply, I will try what you mentioned. I have no desire to become like my father, however one thing that he has experienced that I will never experience is being a war veteran. He was in vietnam and drank the "agent orange" so he is mentally ill, but I still do not think that excuses his behavior.
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Unread 08-26-2013, 10:28 PM
GuyWithWeirdChart GuyWithWeirdChart is offline
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Re: Mars Conjunct Saturn - Most frustrating aspect?

And to The Ram, yes I remember in one of the descriptions of this aspect it says it makes the native "tough". I am also quite the UFC fan myself, other fighters that I know of with this aspect are Cain Velasquez and Quinton Rampage Jackson.

Last edited by GuyWithWeirdChart; 08-26-2013 at 10:31 PM.
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Unread 08-27-2013, 01:15 AM
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Re: Mars Conjunct Saturn - Most frustrating aspect?

The person that I mentioned with Mars and Mercury both in Pisces and conjunction with Ascendant, he is actually so scared of UFO and Alien as his grandmother had saw them a few times and his childhood was surrounding by it!!! lol What an interesting thing about Pisces.
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Unread 08-27-2013, 04:03 AM
GuyWithWeirdChart GuyWithWeirdChart is offline
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Re: Mars Conjunct Saturn - Most frustrating aspect?

Interesting, I have been told about UFO encounters from my mom/aunt, I know they exist, I know that there has to be some living among us on earth, even if they are hostile I am not scared of them.
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Unread 08-27-2013, 06:14 AM
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Re: Mars Conjunct Saturn - Most frustrating aspect?

Seems to me, young man, that you are looking for something (an astrological aspect) or someone (your Mother, disguised as your father) to blame for all that anger and resentment within you.

And of course, Mars-Saturn is an aspect of anger and resentment par excellence.

But that anger and resentment lies within you, not outside embodied in some other person or aspect between distant planets. You are looking in the wrong place if inner peace is your objective.

It is unclear to me whether you are here to discuss the conjunction of Mars and Saturn, or the behavior of your father, the bum.

Have you noticed, in fixating on your father (pinning your anger on him), the triple conjunction of Moon, Uranus and Neptune? The aspects in the chart point to it. The Moon is in detriment and sorely besieged by the two powerful outer planets.

Oedipus lurks here.

Fifty-four years ago, when I was seventeen, I saw that my parental home was not favorable to my well-being. So I left home and set out on my own. A wild animal, if it finds that its foot is caught in a trap (meaning certain death) will often chew off its own foot so that it can escape to live. The animal unwilling to take this risk, to make this sacrifice, ends up in a fur coat.

It would be interesting to learn what you understand the significance of a Mars-Saturn conjunction to be. Could you tell us that in some detail? Using that --- your own understanding of the meaning of the conjunction ---as a starting point, you might get some helpful comments.

Last edited by greybeard; 08-27-2013 at 06:21 AM.
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  #15  
Unread 08-27-2013, 06:57 AM
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Re: Mars Conjunct Saturn - Most frustrating aspect?

Hello greybeard, you are some what correct, I am very frustrated in life at this point , there are a lot of things that are bothering me, but now that I'm older and focus on college/stay inside more the main thing that is frustrating me is my father. I started this thread to figure out if mars conjunct saturn was one of the most if not the most frustrating aspect in astrology. And as I said before, I believe that my father being the way he is, is the reason why I have this in my natal chart. As well as my brother having lots of aspects similar to mine in his natal chart. I'm not really here to discuss my father, just the aspect in general. I am curious as to what it does and how it makes other people feel.

I do not try to pin my anger on him, I know for a fact that he has caused both my brother and I lots of anger and issues, my brother and I have both talked about this before. If you'd like to know what he does I would pm you, but like I said before I really just want to discuss this aspect and not him.

And I don't really feel like leaving him alone with my mom and brother, I feel responsible for my family, i'm very protective over them. He has done some crazy things in the past. There is a reason for everything. You being a lot more experienced in life than me, I am sure you see many flaws in the way I think. But I feel that my judgement/thinking is pretty good.

And from what I have read about this aspect, I think it creates struggles in life that your average person wouldn't experience, I consider this aspect unfortunate in many ways, and I also believe that it has some relevance to a disturbed father figure who angers his son/daughter. I think it can make a disciplined person (if the persons healthy minded) or it can create a depressed person (if the troubles seem to overwhelm them). I also believe it creates somebody who thinks too much about consequences and doesn't act as often as other people would. People with this aspect can never feel defeated apparently, they will always try to overcome, they never want to feel like life has defeated them and they will do everything in their power to not be a "failure". These people can hold in their anger and let it heat up inside of them. That's what I do. I know it's not healthy but I am not selfish so I can do it.

That is about all I "know" about the aspect.

Last edited by GuyWithWeirdChart; 08-27-2013 at 07:04 AM.
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Unread 08-27-2013, 08:50 AM
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Re: Mars Conjunct Saturn - Most frustrating aspect?

I do not try to pin my anger on him, I know for a fact that he has caused both my brother and I lots of anger and issues... Do these words contradict themselves? In my reading of them, they do. No criticism is intended; I ask a question so that you will examine yourself and your thinking.

Saturn is the planet that intrinsically represents "the father figure." Mars symbolizes "anger" among other things. The two are together in the sky...interpretaton: "anger with the father." ("Mars with Saturn")

Mars also represents "act, action, initiative, impetus"...and Saturn "blockage and obstacles, repression". In your chart, Mars is earlier in the zodiac, and applies to Saturn. So...Initiative is blocked. Actions begun are apt to meet obstacles, and the original energy and impetus to become blocked, repressed, abandoned. What is begun is likely not carried to completion, meets frustration.

The name you have chosen for yourself here..."GuyWithWeirdChart, implies that you consider yourself somehow unique, different, extraordinary. And Yes, you are unique...just like everyone else you will ever meet in this world, and probably the next. But there is nothing particularly weird, extraordinary, exceptional about your chart. Your chart simply describes the uniqueness of you as one among 7 billion souls, all struggling with life's problems just as you must, all having the same basic desires and difficulties in life.

Mars-Saturn contacts are notorious for coldness and cruelty. Notice that your conjunction is in Pisces, a sign which operates through subtlety, indirect methods, hidden and covert actions, is disguised. The sign often carries feelngs of victimization, dependency, dissolution, laxity, confusion and uncertainty.

Mars has just left the sign of his exaltation, and entered a sign with which he is incompatible. The nature of Mars is direct, immediate, open, forceful, energetic; Pisces is indirect, brooding, secretive, absorbent of force and energy, and prone to fear and distaste for the harsh realities of life. Mars acts outwardly; Pisces is very internalized.

My own chart features a Mars-Saturn conjunction. In my chart it is focalized; in yours it is not. I am quite familiar with some of the possible manifestations or forms of expression this conjunction can take, having lived them.

And I don't really feel like leaving him alone with my mom and brother, I feel responsible for my family, i'm very protective over them....May I suggest you watch a video on YouTube which on its face has nothing to do with this statement. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH882OCKhgE. Pay special attention to the segment in which he talks about the role of emotions or feelings. What he says applies to you and your situation (as it does to me and mine.) "Sacred Cows are always connected to emotions..." Unless you are willing and prepared to commit murder, you cannot protect your mother and brother from your father. That is irrational, not realistic. That thinking is based on emotions, not rational thought. Your mother chose to bring him back into her life.

Last edited by greybeard; 08-27-2013 at 09:12 AM.
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Unread 08-27-2013, 10:16 AM
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Re: Mars Conjunct Saturn - Most frustrating aspect?

I agree with the first answer above a lot.

I've observed many people with Mars-Saturn, both acquaintances and celebrities, and I feel the most malefic readings as consigned later in the thread are true most of all, maybe only, in a close, angular square, with something else insisting in the theme, for example i met a man who suggested to me he had killed people, he had apart from angular mars-saturn square, a star in the asc, Dschubba, of character mars-sat. It is particularly dangerous the square when Saturn is fallen in Aries and Mars strong in Capricorn, because there is mutual reception increasing the unbalance and tension, and this is the thing:

you have to look which planet is stronger, then you know what predominates: self control (saturn) or bottled up anger comes out (mars), but in my opinion the conj tends by its very nature to self control; granted, it brings havoc to the house involved , but in the abstract I feel is less "malefic" than the opp and squar;

square with both strong ( sat in aquar, mars in scorpio), gives a great warrior, although can just write if not war at the moment, check William Pierce: if someone really really want to understand mars-sat read "The Turner Diaries"

but is wrong to assume that just this aspect fouls a life, there are gillions of people with them doing well, check for example Claudia Schiffer, close and angular...but impacts badly the houses involved

surprisingly for most people, in traditional astrology mars has often a lot of dignity in Pisces, because it is certain dignity by triplicity, so probably is stronger for you than sat, but overall your conj doesnt look much of a threat

the stars fomalhaut and deneb adige have to be conjucted with only one degree, it works more with the planets of its character (mer and ven)

we dont have to build big stories with mere exchanges exhibited by aprox 1/6 of the population of the world (considering all the main traditional angles), the more common something the less significant, if there is no confirmation via stars or whatever, my opinion

my own experience is just rotten house involved, not a judgment of my general temperament; in my case, in 7th house, there is an element of my enemies having impediments and having an untimely end; in your case would be your friends who are ******

maybe your feelings of blockage has to do more with moon in cap or some transit or progression whatever going on at the moment; besides everybody is blocked this days, folks bad times for everyone

for general temperament and quick sum-up of a chart is important lord of 1, yours is great, Venus in Pisces in XI is fantastic, only careful Scheat, Sun in 11 is fantastic too; these people "receives favors from kings" say the old books; stories? well, an idiot in my country a sportman married the princess, sun in eleven, and used king's favors to embezzle staggering amounts of public money; also prize winners and the like. Amazing, litteral! So in your 11 through your life you'll experience contradictory tendencies, many different kinds of friends, wonderful girls, ****tards males, I guess.

Last edited by Arthur Fomalhaut; 08-28-2013 at 09:03 AM.
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Unread 08-27-2013, 02:39 PM
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Re: Mars Conjunct Saturn - Most frustrating aspect?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyWithWeirdChart View Post
Would you consider mars conjunct saturn in natal to be one of the most frustrating aspects there is if not the most frustrating?

I have this as well as mars parallel saturn so it's like a double conjunct and I always feel like other people are trying to bring me down and anger me, especially my selfish father. This takes away my energy and motivation and it makes things way harder. There also seems to be endless obstacles that a lot of other people I know don't have to deal with. Personal stuff.

Yet when I was in middle school I had a healthy mind and my father didn't live with us back then (my mom let him live with us because she feels bad for him, he's a bum) so I always had energy and in my opinion it was almost as if I had the mars saturn trine, very disciplined and good energy.


What do you think of this aspect?

Here is my chart.

http://imgur.com/aXrZtcl
Hi GWWC,

You've gotten a lot of well thought out and sound responses to your question so I won't rehash what other members have told you.

In fact they pointed out already how difficult it is to look at a singular aspect without consideration to the entire chart.

But to simply answer your Mars Saturn aspect question it's a yes and no answer.

Yes, it can be frustrating for the native owner this go go go (Mars) ---stop stop stop (Saturn) message.

No, it doesn't have to be frustrating forever. In fact, I take more notice when I see a square or opposition between these two planets. In my mind a conjunction is something that the native can learn to work with and benefit from (more readily) in this particular instance.

I am of the belief that our natal promise (natal chart) was chosen by us before we entered into this life. So you might say that you chose this particular aspect and the other aspects, house positions of planets, everything in your natal chart in order to help you evolve your soul during this particular incarnation.

Just sharing my beliefs with you.

Keep in mind that each aspect can have two or more interpretations. This aspect as well. What happens to create that shift from a negative interpretation to a positive interpretation as the natal chart progresses and life unfolds?

That shift in interpretation must come from within the native. Know what I mean?

ETA: Simply put try to shift your thinking from what is stopping me and what is frustrating me (in this instance you identify it as your Father) to what overarching lesson do I need to learn from these experiences?

Last edited by astrokat; 08-27-2013 at 02:44 PM.
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Unread 08-27-2013, 07:59 PM
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Re: Mars Conjunct Saturn - Most frustrating aspect?

Very good point Astrokat....the interpretation comes from within the native. In my brief comment on the conjunction I did not direct attention to the positive expressions of the combination. One reason for that is the age of the OP; he has not accumulated enough experience in life yet, and until the time that experience is actually lived words are not much more than that....just as if you ask what an apple tastes like without ever having tasted one: how do you describe the flavor of an apple? There is no substitute for experience, and he will just have to wait until it comes along.

He does not yet understand that these tribulations and sufferings have a purpose in life. He feels that life is unfair and has singled him out.

Life depends fundamentally on our own attitude toward it. We can see life as magical, and be inspired with wonder and joy; or, we can let cynicism and anger poison our soul. Attitude is one of the few things in life over which we have some control: the choice is ours to make. The general flow of events and circumstances in our lives is pretty much beyond our control, but our response to those things -- the attitudes we nurture -- are subject to our will.
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Unread 11-26-2013, 12:40 AM
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Re: Mars Conjunct Saturn - Most frustrating aspect?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyWithWeirdChart View Post
Would you consider mars conjunct saturn in natal to be one of the most frustrating aspects there is if not the most frustrating?

I have this as well as mars parallel saturn so it's like a double conjunct and I always feel like other people are trying to bring me down and anger me, especially my selfish father. This takes away my energy and motivation and it makes things way harder. There also seems to be endless obstacles that a lot of other people I know don't have to deal with. Personal stuff.

Yet when I was in middle school I had a healthy mind and my father didn't live with us back then (my mom let him live with us because she feels bad for him, he's a bum) so I always had energy and in my opinion it was almost as if I had the mars saturn trine, very disciplined and good energy.


What do you think of this aspect?

Here is my chart.

http://imgur.com/aXrZtcl
I have this aspect and I used to hate it, but now I sort of appreciate it. I've always felt as if I am trying to make a run for it and then there are these to massive guys on each side of me holding me back by my arms with my legs dangling and moving in the air whilst screaming "let me go!!!." Just as I think I am going to plow through something, I have a roadblock I need to go around. I also have Mars conjunct Pluto and Mars square my AC so I kind of like the Saturn aspect because I think slowing me down a little is the best way to deal with the frustrating energy of Mars combined with Pluto and squaring my AC. My Mars is in Libra, which gets a bad rap but I don't mind my Mars. I can't relate to feeling like others are trying to bring me down - that isn't something that really enters my mind too often. I feel like other people try to sabotage me or get in the way of my success (and then it's like a little red laser beam sitting on the chest until I prevail). That might be more of a Pluto thing than Saturn.

This is the thing with Saturn and with anything in life, really. If for some reason you are not getting what you want, what you think you deserve, or what have you, there is definitely a reason for it. Unfortunately with this aspect nothing will come easy for you in life and you need to accept that and work with it. When I was younger I used to be so jealous of people who had everything and didn't deserve it (from my perspective) - but who are we to decide who deserves what?

Of course there will always be people in your life that are not good people and revel in others misery, but your first mistake is even letting yourself get to that mindset. Pisces is the King/Queen of the pity party (I would know, it is my Sun sign). Don't blame others for what you haven't achieved. I know this sounds like a total lecture (and it's not on purpose, I assure you, however I know that my friends sometimes feel that I lecture when giving advice when all I am trying to do is offer practical advice) but seriously.. but you have two choices, you either submit to your negative aspects and just admit defeat or you try and find a silver lining and work with what you've got. So you have the underdog of Mars signs coupled with a hard Saturn aspect.. you will just have to work extra hard. If that is not something that interests you, then the universe is essentially telling you that you don't deserve anything handed to you on a silver platter, so, tough sh*t. I share the same aspect with you and I haven't let it stop me from getting what I want. Instead of getting discouraged when there is a road block, get fired up. Maybe you haven't found anything that you want badly enough to make you lose the "woe is me" attitude. Not everyone is out to get you, and the people that are, well, the best retaliation is to beat them by succeeding.
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Last edited by anjelik; 11-26-2013 at 12:43 AM.
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Unread 11-26-2013, 03:21 AM
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Re: Mars Conjunct Saturn - Most frustrating aspect?

Quote:
Originally Posted by poyi View Post
When I saw what you wrote here, it reminded me of a person with Mars in Pisces. He talks like you all the time. Funny to see that you have Mars in Pisces also.

Your Saturn and Mars conjunction are very close to these two fixed stars. You can have a look as a reference particularly you have parallel aspect as well. You might feel better after reading the following.


FORMALHAUT - [3 degrees of Pisces]
Watcher of the South.
The effects of this star can be variable, for better or for worse. This star can bring success and financial wealth, but there is often very hard work along with plenty of responsibility. It can increases and amplify whatever planet it conjuncts.

DENEB ADIGE - [4 degrees of Pisces]
This star often gives above average intelligence, and an idealistic nature. Money can be made through the arts and sciences. There is often psychic talent and a likable disposition.



http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serp...6/Degrees.html
Lord knows where the info on the fixed stars come from and I have never even heard of Deneb adige. But they would have a very tight orb if they were to be used, which I never do.
Mars conjunct Saturn in the 11th house of groups, sciences and technologies,
humanitarian ideals and your aspirations for the future. The positive channelling would be an aptitude for these things in some way. Being responsible and attracting older persons as friends with whom you have a common goal. You may tend to dream about a better future but not prepared to put any effort into changing things. Blaming your father is non productive and will hold you back. You dont respect him obviously and it will be better when you are not under the same roof.
__________________
The stars impel, not compel.

Last edited by Claire19; 11-26-2013 at 03:27 AM.
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Unread 11-30-2013, 04:19 AM
may28gemini
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Re: Mars Conjunct Saturn - Most frustrating aspect?

Actually, a member and I had discussed Mars conjunct Saturn previously in this thread

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...mpetitive+mars
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