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Natal Astrology A place to discuss yours and others' birth charts (after you post your own birth chart interpretation). Includes psychological and relocation astrology, houses, aspects, and planetary dignity and debility.


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  #1  
Unread 04-26-2018, 04:49 AM
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How do we know what the planets represent?

I've been wondering for a long time actually, but I never knew exactly how to pose the question. How do we know what the various planets represent and what their energies are? Was this information channeled by a Shaman or powerful psychic or multiple individuals of the sort?

I admit I don't know the origin, but I like to go to the core of things and I'd love to also understand why the various signs are said to be ruled by a specific planet or planets

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Unread 04-26-2018, 07:10 AM
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Re: How do we know what the planets represent?

Great topic! I've been wondering myself that a lot which often leads me to not trust each interpretation I read because it doesn't ring true.

I believe people gathered that information with a lot of research, not only channeled. Interviews with chart owners, applying meanins and fitting them in. I don't believe in one outcome or one energy that manifests for all. They all hit us in a pesonal way, so it's best to know what each planet represents.

Altho I'm not sure how they assigned the gods to the planets and from there the meanings expanded.
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Unread 04-26-2018, 07:47 AM
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Re: How do we know what the planets represent?

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Originally Posted by ardentika View Post
Great topic! I've been wondering myself that a lot which often leads me to not trust each interpretation I read because it doesn't ring true.

I believe people gathered that information with a lot of research, not only channeled. Interviews with chart owners, applying meanins and fitting them in. I don't believe in one outcome or one energy that manifests for all. They all hit us in a pesonal way, so it's best to know what each planet represents.

Altho I'm not sure how they assigned the gods to the planets and from there the meanings expanded.
I don't know why this only occurred to me today as something to delve into, but it's been at the back of my mind for so long. So understand this, I'll probably have to buy a lot of books, find websites possibly sequestered in dark corners of the web. I can see clearly that there are things that make sense, that planetary energy is real, but I'm wondering why and how people discovered it. It's fascinating

My intuition is that much of it may have been channeled. I know astrology has been around for hundreds of years so getting to the sources is gonna be a toughy

I suppose I have questions about the elements too and the modes. It has an elegance to it and a symmetry, but how and why?

A lot of sources are available these days on astrology, but they go to the 'what' and I'm just wondering and wondering what goes on behind the whats

My intuition tells me that the planets are more important than the signs too. Not that the signs are necessarily completely irrelevant, but it would seem that understanding signs is about understanding planets. But how we come to understand the planets on such an intangible level is baffling and so intriguing
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Unread 04-26-2018, 07:59 AM
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Re: How do we know what the planets represent?

I don't think one is more important than the other. If we had no signs there would be no translation of energy and.. well no astrology :b

I see the planet as the drive. We upload karma on each planet and then we download it through transits. And depending on the sign it is in, we reap different sorts of karmic lessons and achievements. It's all one huge quantum clock, that is carefully programmed to thick and trigger events for the sake of growing and learning.
Signs act like the lense the energy goes through. It's like a filter. It has a specific vibration on its own to deliver the energy of the planet.

That's why one cannot forecast what a certain transit will bring, because it will manifest in a way we need it. And everyone needs it in a different way.

Also there is something called the collective consciousness, that play a huge role in things like divination and astrology in particular.

Traditional astrology is a bit more simple minded and tends to accepts everything it hears and takes it for granted, while modern astrology goes in the deeper psychological nature of our souls and minds. Hence why modern astrology uses Pluto, Uranus and Neptune. They are insanely spiritual and evolved planets. And not everyone can resonate with them because they are just on SUCH a high level from our consciousness. But that's what we included them, to inspire even more growth in our selves and on our path.

And as I said, I believe the meaning we attach to something, becomes true. So if one day someone decides to assign Saturn for the most benefic planet, and enough people truly believe in that, it WILL happen. The collective consciousness is by far stronger than anything else we know. Stronger than astrology itself.
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Unread 04-26-2018, 08:13 AM
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Re: How do we know what the planets represent?

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Originally Posted by ardentika View Post
I don't think one is more important than the other. If we had no signs there would be no translation of energy and.. well no astrology :b

I see the planet as the drive. We upload karma on each planet and then we download it through transits. And depending on the sign it is in, we reap different sorts of karmic lessons and achievements. It's all one huge quantum clock, that is carefully programmed to thick and trigger events for the sake of growing and learning.
Signs act like the lense the energy goes through. It's like a filter. It has a specific vibration on its own to deliver the energy of the planet.

That's why one cannot forecast what a certain transit will bring, because it will manifest in a way we need it. And everyone needs it in a different way.

Also there is something called the collective consciousness, that play a huge role in things like divination and astrology in particular.

Traditional astrology is a bit more simple minded and tends to accepts everything it hears and takes it for granted, while modern astrology goes in the deeper psychological nature of our souls and minds. Hence why modern astrology uses Pluto, Uranus and Neptune. They are insanely spiritual and evolved planets. And not everyone can resonate with them because they are just on SUCH a high level from our consciousness. But that's what we included them, to inspire even more growth in our selves and on our path.

And as I said, I believe the meaning we attach to something, becomes true. So if one day someone decides to assign Saturn for the most benefic planet, and enough people truly believe in that, it WILL happen. The collective consciousness is by far stronger than anything else we know. Stronger than astrology itself.
Interesting... I'm gonna focus on the collective consciousness part as I've been thinking a lot about our collective consciousness and I believe what you do, that it's extremely powerful. In fact, I think it's powerful enough to start a massive hurricane or to stop one. And I believe too that the relevance of astrology is spiritual and has to do with growth

I also believe that we have the power to create reality

So do you believe that planetary energy goes down solely to us? Us collectively and as individuals? Oddly enough, I resonate heavily with Pluto, Uranus, and Neptune, actually a lot more so than I do other planets

I apologize if I'm not understanding what you're trying to say, but I'm interested and wanna hear more of what you have to say because what you're saying resonates with me a lot more than anything else I've read about astrology. I don't like looking at things in terms of there being one strict interpretation. I believe everything is personal and everyone has their own individual universe and journey even though we are intimately connected through our consciousness
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Unread 04-26-2018, 11:55 AM
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Re: How do we know what the planets represent?

Yes! Everything you said is true, I'm glad also you resonate. ^^

I think we gotta have a morr flexible.. rounded perspective. Many times when I go on birds eye view I see nothing goes without the other. The collective consciousness does have the power to create, however it needs shaping, clearing, detoxing and strengthening.

It's egoic to think we are the most intelligent, however we get what we need. And we need thr challenging apsects and planets.

I don't also think we chose with which planets and positions to get born. I believe they act as filter and show our soul growth prior to coming to Earth. If you are a fresh new born soul you will definitely have mostly "easy" positions and predominant sextiles and trines.

A bit older souls get born with a bit more "difficult " aspects. That is because the soul itself CAN take the challenge and overcome it. No challenge is given to us that we cannot overcome. It means someone somewhete has faith in us and that's mostly our higher selves or us.

Also I don't think Pluto, Uranus and Neptune should be personal sign planets. I think they should be collective planets. Yes, maybe Scorpio, Pisces and Aqua have easier time connecting to the higher realms, but everyone can really.

I think astrology takes a very toxic turn when it tries to interpret, especially relational astrology. You can simply tell someone to give up on another persom cos their synastry and composite are off. Who are we to decide whats off. When someone attracted someone in their life its for a reason. And one can see the reason with astrology.

Not to mentiom the phenomenon called twin flames, which people with lower level of consciousness cannot recognize im astrology so they would say "Run". It's always best to listen to our own intuition. Many astrologers don't have the needed wisdom to work with just anybody, so its important to find one that resomates with us as well.

For example so far no horary Ive tried has resonated or worked as said. Beats me.
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  #7  
Unread 04-30-2018, 10:07 AM
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Re: How do we know what the planets represent?

Wouldn't it make some sense that older souls would have easier aspects and newer souls with harder aspects so that they can get the growth they need?

I remember you saying you feel I'm a young soul but I don't really feel personally I am a young soul. I have a young heart, but I'm an older soul. I know that because I know what my mission here on Earth is

However, I haven't had an easy life. I've dealt with many many emotional and mental issues and I'm only now finding some new awareness. If I look at my chart, I do have some very significant hard aspects, tho
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Unread 04-30-2018, 10:11 AM
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Re: How do we know what the planets represent?

Something interesting to think about..A lot of people aren't born when they're expected. I was personally born two weeks early. Had I been born when expected, I'd be right in the middle of Leo season, but instead, Leo's my 12th house and I'm a Cancer-Virgo and it fits
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Unread 05-01-2018, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lykanized View Post
Wouldn't it make some sense that older souls would have easier aspects and newer souls with harder aspects so that they can get the growth they need?

I remember you saying you feel I'm a young soul but I don't really feel personally I am a young soul. I have a young heart, but I'm an older soul. I know that because I know what my mission here on Earth is

However, I haven't had an easy life. I've dealt with many many emotional and mental issues and I'm only now finding some new awareness. If I look at my chart, I do have some very significant hard aspects, tho
Well, knowing what your mission is doesn't necessarily mean you are an old soul. The world is filled now with freshed newly evolved youngster (I believe I am one too) who just learn really fast, and that can make you feel like older. But truth is if we were older we wouldn't need to learn thise lesson OR even be here on earth.
And no, the newest souls have the easiest apsects, the more evolved ones have mode challenging ones. We come here for the purpose of learning and I know one person who has majorly only trines and sextiles. This person id a 21 old drug addict soon to be a mother, lazy, no job , gives her family hell. So I definitely don't think this is someone you can call an old soul.
People with mostly squares and oppositions are those I can call wise and old.
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Unread 05-01-2018, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lykanized View Post
Something interesting to think about..A lot of people aren't born when they're expected. I was personally born two weeks early. Had I been born when expected, I'd be right in the middle of Leo season, but instead, Leo's my 12th house and I'm a Cancer-Virgo and it fits
I've thought about that too many times and I think there is divine timing for everything. That's why for example people with Saturn on the Asc (like me) are said to have had a difficult birth. Saturn slows down and my mom had a real difficult birth haha.
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Unread 05-01-2018, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ardentika View Post
Well, knowing what your mission is doesn't necessarily mean you are an old soul. The world is filled now with freshed newly evolved youngster (I believe I am one too) who just learn really fast, and that can make you feel like older. But truth is if we were older we wouldn't need to learn thise lesson OR even be here on earth.
And no, the newest souls have the easiest apsects, the more evolved ones have mode challenging ones. We come here for the purpose of learning and I know one person who has majorly only trines and sextiles. This person id a 21 old drug addict soon to be a mother, lazy, no job , gives her family hell. So I definitely don't think this is someone you can call an old soul.
People with mostly squares and oppositions are those I can call wise and old.
Well, if you see it as a hard rule, I think my chart is really a mix of easy and hard, what do you think? I'll attach, hold on
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Unread 05-01-2018, 09:02 AM
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Re: How do we know what the planets represent?

I think even old souls can have hard lives and make not the wisest decisions. When we incarnate, most of us only remember our past lives by subconscious and intuition. And I'd say someone who seems lazy and undriven may not necessarily be that, they may have personal issues especially ones that lead to addiction

Also I do disagree with one thing... Evolved souls are incarnating still to help humanity. There's a darker view on what's going on, that we aren't currently able to free ourselves from the incarnation cycle, but things are changing soon

Last edited by Lykanized; 05-01-2018 at 09:18 AM.
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Unread 05-01-2018, 09:09 AM
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Re: How do we know what the planets represent?

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Originally Posted by Lykanized View Post
Well, if you see it as a hard rule, I think my chart is really a mix of easy and hard, what do you think? I'll attach, hold on
Ok, what do you think? To me it seems like a mix. But I have 5 retrogrades and some people theorize that has to do with karma
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Unread 05-01-2018, 02:06 PM
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Re: How do we know what the planets represent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lykanized View Post

I've been wondering for a long time actually, but I never knew exactly how to pose the question. How do we know what the various planets represent and what their energies are? Was this information channeled by a Shaman or powerful psychic or multiple individuals of the sort?

I admit I don't know the origin, but I like to go to the core of things and I'd love to also understand why the various signs are said to be ruled by a specific planet or planets

'..man did not see pictures in the night skies
and then circumscribe the constellations
according to artistic vision.
Instead
man noted that people born when certain groupings of stars were rising
or setting
or directly overhead
exhibited certain characteristics in common

These characteristics seemed animalistic,
bird like,
aquatic
heroic
or ultra humanistic.

Once this correlation was made,
the symbolic mind of man
assigned SHAPE to groupings of stars
for easy reference.
Some shapes were earthly
human

some creative fantasies
but each shape or constellation
represented symbolically
THE OBSERVED EFFECTS OF THAT GROUP OF STARS
when manifested in the life of a person...' Robert Huntz Granite
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Unread 05-01-2018, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
'..man did not see pictures in the night skies
and then circumscribe the constellations
according to artistic vision.
Instead
man noted that people born when certain groupings of stars were rising
or setting
or directly overhead
exhibited certain characteristics in common

These characteristics seemed animalistic,
bird like,
aquatic
heroic
or ultra humanistic.

Once this correlation was made,
the symbolic mind of man
assigned SHAPE to groupings of stars
for easy reference.
Some shapes were earthly
human

some creative fantasies
but each shape or constellation
represented symbolically
THE OBSERVED EFFECTS OF THAT GROUP OF STARS
when manifested in the life of a person...' Robert Huntz Granite
That's interesting. Since Whoam1 has been talking about alternative cobstellations, can those have just as strong an affect or a strong one at least?
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Unread 05-01-2018, 08:48 PM
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Re: How do we know what the planets represent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lykanized View Post

That's interesting.
Since Whoam1 has been talking about alternative cobstellations, can those have just as strong an affect
or a strong one at least?

Sidereal astrology is constellational
http://constellationsofwords.com/
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Unread 05-04-2018, 07:56 AM
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Re: How do we know what the planets represent?

The knowledge was given to humanity by beings of higher consciousness - short answer.

The ancients called them many things. New age channeling is not new but we understand it better..in my opinion

But I believe ardentika gave a very interesting perspective on things still unknown. New information to help us connect the dots is coming through. And I also believe the theory about new souls vs. old souls. The new souls are coming in with intuitive power that will not just make spirituality a different experience for them but also other structures of the world. Old souls though are still wise and I think help to ground the energies...also they have soul experiences from many lifetimes to pull upon
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Unread 05-10-2018, 07:01 AM
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Re: How do we know what the planets represent?

I was discussing experiences with my subconscious with a friend who thinks very very similarly to the way I do and she mentioned Akashic records to me. Her theory is that some intuition, when you know something but you can't say why or how, is information downloaded from the soul from previous lifetimes that you tap into in your current lifetime. For some reason, that had never once occurred to me before

I still don't really know if I'm an old soul or a young soul. I suppose it doesn't matter in the long run. The important thing is that I know why I'm here and I do

Anyway, I love getting to the heart of things. I don't know where to look for the kinda information I'm looking for. To me it makes sense this may definitely be a mix of channeled information and collective consciousness working together

I rely on my intuition a lot, but I can't get a feel for astrology. That may be the deeper reason I'm really wondering. I need something to trigger my intuition so I start really getting a feel for things. otherwise, as of right now, I'm basically just wandering around this forum not sharing anything of value at all, just gathering and gathering bits and pieces. Then again, if intuition is really based in the Akashic record, I may never get an intuitive feel for it at all
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Unread 05-10-2018, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lykanized View Post
I think even old souls can have hard lives and make not the wisest decisions. When we incarnate, most of us only remember our past lives by subconscious and intuition. And I'd say someone who seems lazy and undriven may not necessarily be that, they may have personal issues especially ones that lead to addiction

Also I do disagree with one thing... Evolved souls are incarnating still to help humanity. There's a darker view on what's going on, that we aren't currently able to free ourselves from the incarnation cycle, but things are changing soon
Well.. I'm biased here cos I know an old soul. It's something you cannot see only in the chart cos he has outgrown it. He says himself he shouldn't be here but as you said they do incarnate from time to time to help us. And those people don't make the mistakes of younger souls. By the time they reach their 20s they ready have the consciousness of an 30y old. Maybe even more, but we still cannot escape our biological age. It's thightly connected to our soul still.
And mostly those who are lazy and undriven do have psychological issues that derive from the lack of challanges. Cos when we are opposed with a challenge we have no other options but act and deal with it. Wh en there aren't challenges there is no need to resolve those issues so those people find it easy to just give in addiction and just.. live without much care or responsibility. And maturing is all about responsibility. On a soul level as well.

And ofc all charts are balanced. I mean like for example I have predominant squares in my chart and fewer sextiles and trines. Just count to see which aspect predominates. I know someone with more than 10 conjunctions,that aint easy as well.
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Unread 05-10-2018, 05:25 PM
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Re: How do we know what the planets represent?

Studying the tradition and history of astrology will give you some answers.
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Unread 05-10-2018, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lykanized View Post
I was discussing experiences with my subconscious with a friend who thinks very very similarly to the way I do and she mentioned Akashic records to me. Her theory is that some intuition, when you know something but you can't say why or how, is information downloaded from the soul from previous lifetimes that you tap into in your current lifetime. For some reason, that had never once occurred to me before

I still don't really know if I'm an old soul or a young soul. I suppose it doesn't matter in the long run. The important thing is that I know why I'm here and I do

Anyway, I love getting to the heart of things. I don't know where to look for the kinda information I'm looking for. To me it makes sense this may definitely be a mix of channeled information and collective consciousness working together

I rely on my intuition a lot, but I can't get a feel for astrology. That may be the deeper reason I'm really wondering. I need something to trigger my intuition so I start really getting a feel for things. otherwise, as of right now, I'm basically just wandering around this forum not sharing anything of value at all, just gathering and gathering bits and pieces. Then again, if intuition is really based in the Akashic record, I may never get an intuitive feel for it at all
Intuition is not based in the akashic records. Intuition just is. It's a state of mind all humans can reach, it just takes a little practice. To some it comes easier to others not so much.
Akashics are just that.. a record of all your souls experience and livesand it is protected by higher beings. Sometimes even you yourself might get blocked from your own records if you are not ready for that information.
And I get what you mean with astrology, I had the same issue. It feels like a huge link is missing but just stick around it and it will all make sense and fall to place.
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Unread 05-10-2018, 06:29 PM
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Re: How do we know what the planets represent?

Astrology is actually many thousands of years old. There have been many thousands of explorations by thousands of writers.

Astrology is not a new thing.

During the period from 1920 to 1950, the Church of Light in Los Angeles had more than 1000 acolytes from around the world and the did a statistical study of more than 10,000 charts, each with a detailed 75 page questionnaire to determine whether the meanings were real or not.
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Unread 05-10-2018, 09:10 PM
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Re: How do we know what the planets represent?

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Originally Posted by ardentika View Post
Well.. I'm biased here cos I know an old soul. It's something you cannot see only in the chart cos he has outgrown it. He says himself he shouldn't be here but as you said they do incarnate from time to time to help us. And those people don't make the mistakes of younger souls. By the time they reach their 20s they ready have the consciousness of an 30y old. Maybe even more, but we still cannot escape our biological age. It's thightly connected to our soul still.
And mostly those who are lazy and undriven do have psychological issues that derive from the lack of challanges. Cos when we are opposed with a challenge we have no other options but act and deal with it. Wh en there aren't challenges there is no need to resolve those issues so those people find it easy to just give in addiction and just.. live without much care or responsibility. And maturing is all about responsibility. On a soul level as well.

And ofc all charts are balanced. I mean like for example I have predominant squares in my chart and fewer sextiles and trines. Just count to see which aspect predominates. I know someone with more than 10 conjunctions,that aint easy as well.
Psychological issues and addiction in themselves are huge spiritual challenges to overcome that most people couldn't face with much grace. No matter a soul's origin or age, they're still human and will face human challenges and that's one of them. I think it's a little discriminatory to assume that people who face those issues are unchallenged or just lazy or don't care at all. Those issues in themselves are huge challenges. I mean imagine having your own mind working against your development

But I can see how people on the surface may seem just undriven or irresponsible. I'm just trying to present another point of view as I've had a lot of experience with people who face those specific challenges and rarely are they ever actually undriven or unchallenged.
When you have a challenge, there's no set amount of time it may take to face that challenge, especially if it's a challenge within your own self or one that you may be able to see astrologically. Eventually, yeah, you do have to face it, but that doesn't always happen immediately. Especially if it's an immense challenge. It may take years to develop that awareness and maturity. Even in an old soul since we pretty much come here bare and perhaps even if they're an old soul that's a new challenge to them. And psychological issues and addiction can arise as a response to the challenges themselves until they gain the awareness they need to

Of course, I've observed some people who never do move past those challenges, sadly. But just because we're faced with a challenge in our life, even if we have the tools to face it, doesn't mean we will or will immediately or will know we have the tools. That's the whole point of life. If it was meant to be easily achievable, what would be the point?

Last edited by Lykanized; 05-10-2018 at 09:49 PM.
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Unread 05-10-2018, 10:22 PM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: How do we know what the planets represent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

Studying the tradition and history of astrology will give you some answers.

published 10 May 2018


Essential Dignities and Debilities in Traditional Astrology

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVz6xT7yHDs

The video recording of episode 156 of The Astrology Podcast
Charles Obert discusses the concept of essential dignities and debilities
and how they are used to determine the condition of a planet in an astrological chart.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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Unread 05-15-2018, 12:05 AM
Timmytwothumbs Timmytwothumbs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lykanized View Post
I've been wondering for a long time actually, but I never knew exactly how to pose the question. How do we know what the various planets represent and what their energies are? Was this information channeled by a Shaman or powerful psychic or multiple individuals of the sort?

I admit I don't know the origin, but I like to go to the core of things and I'd love to also understand why the various signs are said to be ruled by a specific planet or planets
Thousands of years of research. People would compare what happens in the sky with what happened on Earth. And drew conclusions from their observations.
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