Is Pluto misunderstood?

Lykanized · Feb 22, 2019

ardentika said:
That makes sense. Masculine energy likes to externalized while feminine internalizes. Maybe that's why Pluto is considered higher octave of Mars. Mars is pretty destructive too cos its so charged. But I'm always left with the impression Pluto destroys more on emotional/soul level. In the end what lies in the subconscious as a blockage will be brought to light for awareness. I believe that's what pluto stands for. And not all people are meant to have this experience in this lifetime.

Actually, everyone goes through that process of having subconscious blockages brought to light. Going through a process of digging through our darkness because what's there has power over us as long as we don't face it and own our darkness. That's just the trial of life. Pluto symbolizes that process, but we all have Pluto's presence in us somehow

Before I knew a thing about astrology, I was very passionate about transformation myself, facing my darkness, my truths hidden in my consciousness, learning from it so as to reclaim my power. I was also very much aligned with the 'Phoenix rising from the ashes' motif. I was very heavily involved with Plutonian themes like destruction, death, going as deep as possible, to the core, the raw core no matter how much it hurt, pain, my shadow. And I've always been very obsessive as well, especially with these concepts

But I also had Plutonian issues of control and projecting my feelings of powerlessness onto others

In all honesty, I'm very Plutonian energetically, yet I'm not sure I'd be considered Plutonian astrologically. So I do think we all are meant to go through this process. That's what growth is all about, we're not meant for stagnation. We're all meant to dig through the meat, the rotting flesh of us and bring it back to life. We're all meant to experience many little deaths and destructions so as to recreate ourselves

I do believe that's what Pluto's about. That's why people who don't do the work are likely to project their feelings of powerlessness out into the world

Before I knew anything about astrology or Pluto, I was very very passionate and aligned with Plutonian energy. But I still don't know if my chart would reflect that Plutonianism. So I'm definitely convinced we're all meant to go through that process

People have even thought I must be a Scorpio rising before. And I've been noted as having Plutonian energy, but I'm not sure if people would actually consider me Plutonian looking at my chart

So I wonder why I'd be so heavily Plutonian if it's not reflected in my tropical chart nor my sidereal chart. Actually, in sidereal, I'm a Scorpio NN, but I still don't think that accounts for how heavily Plutonian I am energetically. It just raises many questions and I truly do believe we're meant to all go through this process of delving into the deepest aspects ourselves, destroying what isn't ours and isn't real and carrying with us what is real, finding our power in the destruction, our light in the darkness

I think this is an important discussion... Perhaps we're all meant to explore the themes of every planet regardless of their presence in our charts. And Pluto is such a vital, very very human planet symbolically

This discussion is getting meaty and real, I love it :devil:

I truly believe we must all go through

Lykanized · Feb 22, 2019

I only just came to this realization. I've been wondering why I'm so Plutonian yet it's not reflected in my chart...

It's highly possible that we're all meant to experience the journeys represented by each planet, but various life circumstances can trigger different planets to become more prominent at various points in life

For instance, I went through a lot of trauma growing up and I was forced to delve into my darkness and use it to find my power because of that

Lykanized · Feb 22, 2019

Is Pluto misunderstood? Perhaps so. It's considered a malefic, but what if the malefics are just some of the most crucial energies to our development? They're just more likely than other planets, potentially, to become outwardly destructive because they represent such intense processes

Might Pluto be associated with love? Perhaps so. Once we start digging into our subconscious, we feel powerless to all this energy within us. How we handle it is part of our Plutonian journey. If we're caught up in feelings of powerlessness and trying to find our power, we may not be able to purely love others until we work through these issues. Yet once we do, love may be much more pure and truly intimate as others are no longer a threat to our power

My Scorpio super stellium sister has recently come to many realizations about love and embraced it, as an example. SHe's EXTREMELY scorpionic and as a matter of fact, she has an Aries moon so she's very Martian as well. Yet her journey has led her to embracing love. And no just ordinary love, but this piercing, allencompassing love that strokes through all of humanity. She now preaches to 'look for the love' and she believes that what everyone does is ultimately about love and seeking it

Lykanized · Feb 22, 2019

I apologize for rambling, but I hope I've actually added something to this discussion about Pluto

I've come to a thought that perhaps it's vital for all of us to explore our Plutonian natures, even if our charts don't reflect heavy Plutonic energy. I believe if someone's chart does reflect much Plutonian energy via aspects, particularly hard ones but easy ones as well, it just directs those energies toward specific facets. Yet we all obviously have Pluto in us

For me having it in the 3rd house, the grand majority of my Plutonic journey has been mental as well as verbal

and perhaps the end result is about love. Pluto typically associated with power struggles, but maybe through these power struggles either with others or within our own selves, we're searching for what would allow us to be vulnerable without fear of being taken advantage of or overpowered, and thus searching for the love. The purest love

And I'm gonna thank my beautiful, super Scorpionic sister for influencing this theory. I hope it actually resonates with some others

Lykanized · Feb 22, 2019

For reference, and I do have permission from her to post it, my sister's chart

I'd say she's very Plutonic and of course no one can doubt her being Scorpionic. She's dealt with much darkness as well, but as she's developed, she's come to discover love and that's what she preaches now. I do believe it's possible that at the end of Pluto's power struggles and delving so shamelessly into the depths of self and consciousness, death, the esoteric, the unknown(aka, what makes us feel powerless because we don't understand it), Pluto may actually be about love. Love requires vulnerability and that may be the ascended state of Pluto...vulnerability

Lykanized · Feb 22, 2019

Thank you OP for opening this up. Does Pluto rule death? Perhaps it rules our grapplings with the unknown, what we perceive as beyond us and thus more powerful than we are solely because we don't understand it. But through the harsh journey of coming to terms with death and what it means, we come to understand life. If we follow the path as painful as it may be, we ultimately reach a point where we no longer feel powerless and so we can approach life as vulnerable creatures without defense, without mental, spiritual, emotional, or even physical weapons because we no longer need to. Strength in vulnerability. And in this state where we feel no need to project any latent feelings of powerlessness upon others, and in this state where we no longer perceive possible threats ready to overpower us at any moment, we arise like the Phoenix with all that is not us destroyed, dusted, ashed, and what we are is our core selves. Our core, true, raw selves are able to give and receive true love, not love laced with the shards of these power struggles

So perhaps Pluto is about love, or more accurately, vulnerability which allows love to flow purely

Witchyone · Feb 22, 2019

BaoSanniang said:
LOL it also depends on your other placements. I also believe it depends on your specific life circumstances, like say if you had a good upbringing then perhaps you're more in control and more well-adjusted. However, even then, I'd imagine you to be quite intense in some ways lol.

I still believe that in the end we have free will to make our own decisions for the better or for worse. The fact that you're aware of this and learning about it is a good sign, I'm sure there are many people who are quite, or very Plutonic, but are not aware or enlightened enough to begin to know that part about themselves. Therefore, they bring suffering to themselves and to others.

I also humbly admit I am biased in my opinion due to well, some Plutonic and very immature / unbalanced people I've had to deal with in my life, including my own mom whom by the way is also an "Air Plutonian" with sun in Aquarius.

Yeah, I can be intense. And obsessive. And jealous. I can be a real jerk. I've always said that, but it wasn't until recently that I realized how much damage I'm capable of doing while just trying to "stand up for" myself. It's something I've been attending to. I think in my case, Mars is more in the mix on this than Pluto, but maybe it's a combo.

You may be biased but I'm still curious what you see. I've been in an easy-going mood state for a while now, not taking much personally, so it's a perfect time for self-examination.

My hard aspects are Pluto sq. Saturn, Pluto sq. Mercury, and Pluto inconjunct Moon.

BlackLioness87 · Feb 22, 2019

Lykanized said:
I only just came to this realization. I've been wondering why I'm so Plutonian yet it's not reflected in my chart...

It's highly possible that we're all meant to experience the journeys represented by each planet, but various life circumstances can trigger different planets to become more prominent at various points in life

For instance, I went through a lot of trauma growing up and I was forced to delve into my darkness and use it to find my power because of that

https://www.horoscopeyourself.com/personal-horoscope/

Dominant Planet Calculator (it takes into account minor aspects and other stuff), I think the calculation formula is very accurate. Astro gives Pluto as my dominant planet and Sun is second in the hierarchy. According to horoscopeyourself Uranus is the most aspected (dominant) planet and Pluto is in second place.

I agree in some way with Bao, I also know people with Pluto in hard aspect with their personal planets (especially Sun, Moon and Mars) and they have many of the traits Bao has identified. BUT when looking at their dominant planets Pluto wasn't that prominent. It seems only heavy Plutonic/8H/Scorpionic people can master Pluto energy successfully, maybe it's just that real Plutonic people can do this faster than the average.

Lykanized · Feb 23, 2019

BlackLioness87 said:
https://www.horoscopeyourself.com/personal-horoscope/

Dominant Planet Calculator (it takes into account minor aspects and other stuff), I think the calculation formula is very accurate. Astro gives Pluto as my dominant planet and Sun is second in the hierarchy. According to horoscopeyourself Uranus is the most aspected (dominant) planet and Pluto is in second place.

I agree in some way with Bao, I also know people with Pluto in hard aspect with their personal planets (especially Sun, Moon and Mars) and they have many of the traits Bao has identified. BUT when looking at their dominant planets Pluto wasn't that prominent. It seems only heavy Plutonic/8H/Scorpionic people can master Pluto energy successfully, maybe it's just that real Plutonic people can do this faster than the average.

I feel like it isn't quite accurate
granted there are many means to calculating dominant planets

BlackLioness87 · Feb 23, 2019

Lykanized said:
I feel like it isn't quite accurate
granted there are many means to calculating dominant planets

Could be that the dominant planet is a dynamic thing and the hierarchy changes according to transits, progressions or "consciousness level"?

In my case I have Chiron in 10H conjunct my MC, and I currently feel very Chironic (I've been struggling with some heavy Chiron transits the last years), but it seems Chiron is not included in any dominant planet calculations :/

Anyways IMO, most aspected planets (whether or not they're dominant according to some formula) carry important meaning though sometimes it's difficult to figure this out.

Lykanized · Feb 23, 2019

BlackLioness87 said:
Could be that the dominant planet is a dynamic thing and the hierarchy changes according to transits, progressions or "consciousness level"?

In my case I have Chiron in 10H conjunct my MC, and I currently feel very Chironic (I've been struggling with some heavy Chiron transits the last years), but it seems Chiron is not included in any dominant planet calculations :/

Anyways IMO, most aspected planets (whether or not they're dominant according to some formula) carry important meaning though sometimes it's difficult to figure this out.

Chiron, I feel like that's a significant one too oft overlooked

My most aspected planets are(counting a chiron aspect) Pluto>Uranus=Mars>Neptune>moon. Actually, all my planets end up being highly active save for Jupiter, Saturn, and Venus not counting minor aspects Pluto kinda infects the whole chart :biggrin:

When I do my chart analyzing, I always look at what planet rules a specific house/body. Like my Chiron is in my 12th in Leo ruled by the sun in the 11th house and I try to find the extended meaning in that. Chiron in 10th definitely sounds harsh, but I think the wounded healer always has to go through its lot to harness the ability to heal and it seems in this case your career path could revolve around healing even in an offhand sense

BaoSanniang · Feb 23, 2019

I'd like to further explain why I've been holding these views about Pluto as a planet and Plutonic people. I was in a bit of a bad mood the other day when I made those posts, so it may have come off to you guys as too harsh, even discriminatory. I'll begin by apologizing for saying the things I said, and please know I did not intend to offend or address anyone specifically, I only meant to express how Plutonic individuals have made my life difficult.

I'll say the fact that you guys here who are Pluto dominant / have Pluto playing a significant role in your chart are definitely more awakened than the Plutonic individuals I've encountered in my life so far. You're aware of the manifestations of this energy while the Plutonic people I've had to deal with personally and IRL were certainly not.

They've been controlling, jealous, manipulative, destructive towards themselves and towards others (including me), and absolutely frightening and unpredictable. It's like spending time around them is so draining, exhausting because it's like facing an imminent darkness, a kind of soul-penetrating darkness that I fear will consume me. These un-evolved Plutonic individuals in my life tend to simultaneously raise my fear and anger levels when I'm around them, making me feel like I can become a more frightening version of myself if really provoked by them. They're so comfortable with the dark side of life and humanity that it makes me uncomfortable, and I can feel like deep down they're laughing at me because they think I am stupid, that I live on the surface and only want simple things.

These un-evolved Plutonic individuals that I've crossed paths with, I'd say regardless of their Sun sign, have a side to them that I believe I'll never be truly able to understand. They seem to attract dangerous, volatile people and situations into their lives and eventually it integrates into their personalities, making THEM embody some of the very things they attract into their lives. As someone who has not lived through those situations, I realize I'll never be able to truly understand them. Plus the fact that they've hurt me, as some of these people I'm referring to include my mom and some relatives on her side, the planetary energy of Pluto, at least in its un-evolved and immature manifestations, has, to a degree, wounded me on a personal level.

Perhaps encounters with people who've worked through Plutonic energy will change my mind, but so far I haven't encountered any of them in my life. Maybe an evolved Plutonic individual will use the planet as a source of positive transformation and to protect others. However, before I encounter such a person, I will still hold the view that Pluto is a malefic planet, and that it really takes a lot to master it or at least control it rather than letting it control you. It's like I am so removed from most, if not all Plutonic themes in my life.

My 4 dominant planets, in descending order:
1. Venus
2. Jupiter
3. Moon
4. Saturn

BaoSanniang · Feb 23, 2019

BlackLioness87 said:
Could be that the dominant planet is a dynamic thing and the hierarchy changes according to transits, progressions or "consciousness level"?

In my case I have Chiron in 10H conjunct my MC, and I currently feel very Chironic (I've been struggling with some heavy Chiron transits the last years), but it seems Chiron is not included in any dominant planet calculations :/

Anyways IMO, most aspected planets (whether or not they're dominant according to some formula) carry important meaning though sometimes it's difficult to figure this out.

My mom, who has Sun Trine Pluto and Venus Trine Pluto, has 7 aspects to her Sun and 6 aspects to her Venus on top of a very tight Sun-Venus conjunction in Aquarius. One hell of an unpredictable and complicated woman, but with lots of charm that fools people into believing she's really nice and generous.

Here are her aspects to her Sun and Venus:
Sun Conjunct Venus
Sun Sextile Mars
Sun Square Jupiter
Sun Square Saturn
Sun Trine Uranus
Sun Sextile Neptune
Sun Trine Pluto

Venus Sextile Mars
Venus Square Jupiter
Venus Square Saturn
Venus Trine Uranus
Venus Sextile Neptune
Venus Trine Pluto

Lykanized · Feb 23, 2019

BaoSanniang said:
I'd like to further explain why I've been holding these views about Pluto as a planet and Plutonic people. I was in a bit of a bad mood the other day when I made those posts, so it may have come off to you guys as too harsh, even discriminatory. I'll begin by apologizing for saying the things I said, and please know I did not intend to offend or address anyone specifically, I only meant to express how Plutonic individuals have made my life difficult.

I'll say the fact that you guys here who are Pluto dominant / have Pluto playing a significant role in your chart are definitely more awakened than the Plutonic individuals I've encountered in my life so far. You're aware of the manifestations of this energy while the Plutonic people I've had to deal with personally and IRL were certainly not.

They've been controlling, jealous, manipulative, destructive towards themselves and towards others (including me), and absolutely frightening and unpredictable. It's like spending time around them is so draining, exhausting because it's like facing an imminent darkness, a kind of soul-penetrating darkness that I fear will consume me. These un-evolved Plutonic individuals in my life tend to simultaneously raise my fear and anger levels when I'm around them, making me feel like I can become a more frightening version of myself if really provoked by them. They're so comfortable with the dark side of life and humanity that it makes me uncomfortable, and I can feel like deep down they're laughing at me because they think I am stupid, that I live on the surface and only want simple things.

These un-evolved Plutonic individuals that I've crossed paths with, I'd say regardless of their Sun sign, have a side to them that I believe I'll never be truly able to understand. They seem to attract dangerous, volatile people and situations into their lives and eventually it integrates into their personalities, making THEM embody some of the very things they attract into their lives. As someone who has not lived through those situations, I realize I'll never be able to truly understand them. Plus the fact that they've hurt me, as some of these people I'm referring to include my mom and some relatives on her side, the planetary energy of Pluto, at least in its un-evolved and immature manifestations, has, to a degree, wounded me on a personal level.

Perhaps encounters with people who've worked through Plutonic energy will change my mind, but so far I haven't encountered any of them in my life. Maybe an evolved Plutonic individual will use the planet as a source of positive transformation and to protect others. However, before I encounter such a person, I will still hold the view that Pluto is a malefic planet, and that it really takes a lot to master it or at least control it rather than letting it control you. It's like I am so removed from most, if not all Plutonic themes in my life.

My 4 dominant planets, in descending order:
1. Venus
2. Jupiter
3. Moon
4. Saturn

I consider myself Plutonic and I, as mentioned, have a very Plutonic family and have met other Plutonians who are extremely destructive to others and abusive. One of them is a family member. I hope my theory follows. I believe these individual feel vulnerable so they compensate by taking it out on others, targeting others. Plutonians have to make peace with their vulnerabilities and find their power despite it, but that can definitely result in very nasty manifestations. In those states, they're unable to transform, they're stricken and stuck. It's the duality, perhaps. It's about transformation, but without awareness, the Plutonian is stuck in their ways and it can be dangerous

I've recognized my own negative manifestations of Plutonian energy as well and I've really had to work on it

I know I don't apply to your original post, but I have like 7 aspects to Pluto, major, not minor. so I do believe it plays a significant part and I understand the energy. I get where you're coming from

Lykanized · Feb 23, 2019

I was abused in ways that I probably shouldn't mention here by a Scorpionic individual. He was possessive, jealous, delusional, insecure, manipulative...psychopathic, homicidal
Lowest octave of Pluto
I understand

BaoSanniang · Feb 23, 2019

Lykanized said:
I was abused in ways that I probably shouldn't mention here by a Scorpionic individual. He was possessive, jealous, delusional, insecure, manipulative...psychopathic, homicidal
Lowest octave of Pluto
I understand

Well, even though this is an online forum, I'll share with you some of the things I've been told by the Plutonian people in my life, including my mom. I don't know what to say except that I know how it feels to have to put up with a person like that who's essentially a remorseless psychopath. What I've gone through may seem like nothing in your view, but it's nevertheless hurt me quite deeply:

1. My mom once told me that if I came out of her belly, if she gave me life, she has every right in the world to take it away from me if I **** her over hard enough.

2. That I am a naive, useless piece of **** who lives in a magical fairy land and is totally oblivious to the "real world" (darkness, lies, harm, deception, living on the knife's edge).

3. During my tweens I was a bit on the short side (even though scientifically speaking I was about average height) compared to the kids of some of my mom's friends. My mom told me "short people won't get married, short people won't have friends, short people will get laughed at and not get any respect." (Uh, tell that to some of the most powerful men in history?)

4. That I am a morally devoid POS because I stood up to their abusive ways and resisted, even if not too aggressively.

5. That I am a stubborn little guy who refuses to listen to any "wise words", which to them=the darkness of the world and humanity, because I am nothing like them but I should become more like them. No thank you ma'am.

6. That "nobody will ever treat you better than I / we do", that "if someone's treating you well, you must think twice and think about why they're being good towards you. Of course, we're the exceptions."

7. That I simply know nothing about the world, about life. Well, perhaps I don't know anything about THEIR WORLD, THEIR LIFE, or wait, perhaps I see them more clearly than they see themselves, and they are ABSOLUTELY NOT people I look up to. Their personality, their ways disgust the hell out of me.

8. That I am useless, worthless without them.

They live in lies, they live in deceit, they live in darkness, they tell me how bad almost everyone else is but to me people like them are part of the reason why this world's so messed up. And once again, "they" includes my own mom. They're so dysfunctional, so "off the beaten path" that it's almost impossible to get them back on track unless there's literally a Deus Ex Machina scenario in their lives. All I know is that scums and subhuman objects like them will never find peace and happiness, nor do they deserve it.

And you know what? In a strange way it's also funny to me, because the more I see the way they behave the more I know it reflects their insecurities, their inadequacies, their fears, yet they refuse to acknowledge and gain any sense of clarity on it so their self-destructive (and destructive to others) patterns continue as a cycle.

It's really true how the biggest bullies are often the weakest, emptiest, and most insecure people within. That's why they must act destructively, aggressively, and be manipulative outwardly to feel like they have something resembling a bit of control over their lives and their place in the world. I have seldom felt the desire to harm anyone for the sake of feeling a tad better about myself. I may be cold and unfriendly, even harsh towards someone when I am hurt or feeling moody, but that doesn't mean I'd actually want to harm them and go that far (though I've had fantasies).

Sorry, got a bit emotional but every one of my words is true. These people have an absence of light, of love, of truth, of kindness and goodness in their hearts. Everything to them is a game, everything to them is part of one big power struggle where the only winners they want are themselves.

Lykanized · Feb 23, 2019

BaoSanniang said:
Well, even though this is an online forum, I'll share with you some of the things I've been told by the Plutonian people in my life, including my mom. I don't know what to say except that I know how it feels to have to put up with a person like that who's essentially a remorseless psychopath. What I've gone through may seem like nothing in your view, but it's nevertheless hurt me quite deeply:

1. My mom once told me that if I came out of her belly, if she gave me life, she has every right in the world to take it away from me if I **** her over hard enough.

2. That I am a naive, useless piece of **** who lives in a magical fairy land and is totally oblivious to the "real world" (darkness, lies, harm, deception, living on the knife's edge).

3. During my tweens I was a bit on the short side (even though scientifically speaking I was about average height) compared to the kids of some of my mom's friends. My mom told me "short people won't get married, short people won't have friends, short people will get laughed at and not get any respect." (Uh, tell that to some of the most powerful men in history?)

4. That I am a morally devoid POS because I stood up to their abusive ways and resisted, even if not too aggressively.

5. That I am a stubborn little guy who refuses to listen to any "wise words", which to them=the darkness of the world and humanity, because I am nothing like them but I should become more like them. No thank you ma'am.

6. That "nobody will ever treat you better than I / we do", that "if someone's treating you well, you must think twice and think about why they're being good towards you. Of course, we're the exceptions."

7. That I simply know nothing about the world, about life. Well, perhaps I don't know anything about THEIR WORLD, THEIR LIFE, or wait, perhaps I see them more clearly than they see themselves, and they are ABSOLUTELY NOT people I look up to. Their personality, their ways disgust the hell out of me.

8. That I am useless, worthless without them.

They live in lies, they live in deceit, they live in darkness, they tell me how bad almost everyone else is but to me people like them are part of the reason why this world's so messed up. And once again, "they" includes my own mom. They're so dysfunctional, so "off the beaten path" that it's almost impossible to get them back on track unless there's literally a Deus Ex Machina scenario in their lives. All I know is that scums and subhuman objects like them will never find peace and happiness, nor do they deserve it.

And you know what? In a strange way it's also funny to me, because the more I see the way they behave the more I know it reflects their insecurities, their inadequacies, their fears, yet they refuse to acknowledge and gain any sense of clarity on it so their self-destructive (and destructive to others) patterns continue as a cycle.

It's really true how the biggest bullies are often the weakest, emptiest, and most insecure people within. That's why they must act destructively, aggressively, and be manipulative outwardly to feel like they have something resembling a bit of control over their lives and their place in the world. I have seldom felt the desire to harm anyone for the sake of feeling a tad better about myself. I may be cold and unfriendly, even harsh towards someone when I am hurt or feeling moody, but that doesn't mean I'd actually want to harm them and go that far (though I've had fantasies).

Sorry, got a bit emotional but every one of my words is true. These people have an absence of light, of love, of truth, of kindness and goodness in their hearts. Everything to them is a game, everything to them is part of one big power struggle where the only winners they want are themselves.

I think your attitude toward Plutonians is understandable given your experiences. It's true, these are the sad ways in which Pluto can express itself and that's also true that underlying all of Pluto's destructive expressions is pure insecurity and inadequacy. It's the very lowest octave of Plutonian expression and unfortunately it may be the most destructive of the planets to an individual who is very unaware of themselves

I've noticed that once the non selfaware Plutonian gets too far gone, they're almost living in a delusional world they've created where they are as powerful as they desire to be and thus what they do to others is warranted

It's just necessary to note that this is what happens when people are completely non self aware which seems to be strikingly common :/
'
I can feel you've gone through a lot of pain and really, discussions about the dark sides of planets shouldn't be shunned or seen as offensive. It's just the truth that if people are not selfaware, they can turn their feelings of powerlessness and inadequacy out onto the world as a coping mechanism and that's as much Pluto as all the transformation **** and everything else glorifying the planet

BlackLioness87 · Feb 23, 2019

BaoSanniang said:
My mom, who has Sun Trine Pluto and Venus Trine Pluto, has 7 aspects to her Sun and 6 aspects to her Venus on top of a very tight Sun-Venus conjunction in Aquarius. One hell of an unpredictable and complicated woman, but with lots of charm that fools people into believing she's really nice and generous.

Here are her aspects to her Sun and Venus:
Sun Conjunct Venus
Sun Sextile Mars
Sun Square Jupiter
Sun Square Saturn
Sun Trine Uranus
Sun Sextile Neptune
Sun Trine Pluto

Venus Sextile Mars
Venus Square Jupiter
Venus Square Saturn
Venus Trine Uranus
Venus Sextile Neptune
Venus Trine Pluto

It seems your mother has an "affected" Venus.

In my experience, sometimes is worst to have a soft aspect with a "malefic" planet because the other planet agree to work with that energy. If a planet is op posite or squares a malefic, it fights back the influence of the malefic" but if not... Anyway, It all depends on how "afflicted" is the malefic planet, if the malefic is in a nice house you can make the malefic work in your favor and this could propagate to the aspects it makes.

My mother has Pluto square her Moon-MC conjunction, it also squares his Saturn. Her chart also has a "talent" triangle or minor gran trine, Pluto sext Venus, Venus trine Neptune and Neptune sext Pluto. She has some issues, she also have other placements that point out she has subclinical narcissism. She's very controlling and want others to live their lives according to her expectations, she also believes that her feelings are facts. But she's a good hearted person overall. Sometimes she cheats on others but almost always she confesses her lies.

That "pathology" starts in childhood, so before judging her I try to keep in mind she is that way because she didn't get the love/attention she needed when she was a child. Her childhood wasn't that terrible (money problems were the main issue) but I guess she was more vulnerable (well, she still is). She has leo Sun and ASC and Moon conjunct MC.

Witchyone · Feb 24, 2019

BaoSanniang said:
Well, even though this is an online forum, I'll share with you some of the things I've been told by the Plutonian people in my life, including my mom. I don't know what to say except that I know how it feels to have to put up with a person like that who's essentially a remorseless psychopath. What I've gone through may seem like nothing in your view, but it's nevertheless hurt me quite deeply:

1. My mom once told me that if I came out of her belly, if she gave me life, she has every right in the world to take it away from me if I **** her over hard enough.

2. That I am a naive, useless piece of **** who lives in a magical fairy land and is totally oblivious to the "real world" (darkness, lies, harm, deception, living on the knife's edge).

3. During my tweens I was a bit on the short side (even though scientifically speaking I was about average height) compared to the kids of some of my mom's friends. My mom told me "short people won't get married, short people won't have friends, short people will get laughed at and not get any respect." (Uh, tell that to some of the most powerful men in history?)

4. That I am a morally devoid POS because I stood up to their abusive ways and resisted, even if not too aggressively.

5. That I am a stubborn little guy who refuses to listen to any "wise words", which to them=the darkness of the world and humanity, because I am nothing like them but I should become more like them. No thank you ma'am.

6. That "nobody will ever treat you better than I / we do", that "if someone's treating you well, you must think twice and think about why they're being good towards you. Of course, we're the exceptions."

7. That I simply know nothing about the world, about life. Well, perhaps I don't know anything about THEIR WORLD, THEIR LIFE, or wait, perhaps I see them more clearly than they see themselves, and they are ABSOLUTELY NOT people I look up to. Their personality, their ways disgust the hell out of me.

8. That I am useless, worthless without them.

They live in lies, they live in deceit, they live in darkness, they tell me how bad almost everyone else is but to me people like them are part of the reason why this world's so messed up. And once again, "they" includes my own mom. They're so dysfunctional, so "off the beaten path" that it's almost impossible to get them back on track unless there's literally a Deus Ex Machina scenario in their lives. All I know is that scums and subhuman objects like them will never find peace and happiness, nor do they deserve it.

And you know what? In a strange way it's also funny to me, because the more I see the way they behave the more I know it reflects their insecurities, their inadequacies, their fears, yet they refuse to acknowledge and gain any sense of clarity on it so their self-destructive (and destructive to others) patterns continue as a cycle.

It's really true how the biggest bullies are often the weakest, emptiest, and most insecure people within. That's why they must act destructively, aggressively, and be manipulative outwardly to feel like they have something resembling a bit of control over their lives and their place in the world. I have seldom felt the desire to harm anyone for the sake of feeling a tad better about myself. I may be cold and unfriendly, even harsh towards someone when I am hurt or feeling moody, but that doesn't mean I'd actually want to harm them and go that far (though I've had fantasies).

Sorry, got a bit emotional but every one of my words is true. These people have an absence of light, of love, of truth, of kindness and goodness in their hearts. Everything to them is a game, everything to them is part of one big power struggle where the only winners they want are themselves.

It's very disturbing to me that people say those things to others and particularly that a parent would say those things to their child. If that's "Plutonic" I'm certainly not. It's clearly an attempt to be as cruel as possible in a moment of anger. Have you always known that was abusive and abnormal?

You may be right about the Pluto influence bringing that on, although I'd probably look at the condition of other planets first: Mars, Mercury, Moon. The person I know who most closely fits what you describe is a Gemini. Unfortunately, I don't know her birth details to know more about her chart. I do know that a bitter Gemini can be a very barb-tongued person. I suppose a bitter Aquarius can too.

Lykanized · Feb 24, 2019

Witchyone said:
It's very disturbing to me that people say those things to others and particularly that a parent would say those things to their child. If that's "Plutonic" I'm certainly not. It's clearly an attempt to be as cruel as possible in a moment of anger. Have you always known that was abusive and abnormal?

You may be right about the Pluto influence bringing that on, although I'd probably look at the condition of other planets first: Mars, Mercury, Moon. The person I know who most closely fits what you describe is a Gemini. Unfortunately, I don't know her birth details to know more about her chart. I do know that a bitter Gemini can be a very barb-tongued person. I suppose a bitter Aquarius can too.

It is very Plutonic but it's just tge lowest octave of Pluto. Pluto fears being overpowered so it can easily become insecure. It becomes obsessive because it doesn't want to be in a position where it feels vulnerable. A higher octave Pluto can drop the abuse and power games and stop acting out of their fear and insecurity

Is Pluto misunderstood?

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