Twin questions: Will I get my car back? Is my car still in his possesssion?

FIRST QUESTION

I had asked the first question; "Will I get my car back?" after a snafu with a shady mechanic (long story- I'd rather not go into details)

My attempt at interpretation:

The significator for me and for my possession- the car, is the same. The sig is the Moon at 18* Cap in the 7th. I'm not sure what sig you would use for a mechanic (although it started out as a tow unauthorized by me, but authorized by the town, when my car broke down in city limits. It was towed before I could get back to it, even though the neighbors said they'd watch out for it - and knew why it was there. Just said that to clarify if the sigs would change, as to how he got possession of the car.)

The end of the matter is the ruler of the 4th, Mercury at 4*Scorpio, in the 5th. Part of Fortune is at 7*Taurus in the 11th.

I don't see anything positive in this chart. However, if horary questions work like tarot card readings, and the outcome can change if different decisions are made.... I've asked the question twice more since then. If anyone wants to see these charts, let me know.

ViewChart for "Will I get my car back?"
(If you're having trouble viewing the chart, you'll need to do one of the following, depending on your browser: Click in the upper left hand corner - you should see a little magnifying glass
OR Click in the upper left hand corner - look for orange ball with blue arrows in lower right hand corner of chart - click on the orange ball.)


SECOND QUESTION
Then when I started to post this thread, I wondered very strongly, "Does he even still have my car, thinking he may have sold it, etc." So, the second question is: "Is my car still in his possession?"

Okay, my attempt at this one:

This one is very curious, and would seem to contradict what I got off the previous chart!

I am signified by Mercury at 24*Scorpio, in the 6th. Am I correct that that gives Mercury accidental dignity, or something like that? since Mercury normally rules the 6th?

My car is signified by the cusp of the second, which is the Moon. The Moon is in its own sign at 21*Cancer in the second house!!! It is applying a trine to my Sig of Mercury in the 6th.

Part of Fortune is at 5*Scorpio in the 5th. If the 5th house stands for "getting lucky", the ruler of the 5th is Venus, which is in her own sign at 21* Libra, and also in the 5th house. Venus is exactly squaring the Moon.

IF the shop owner/tow operator is signified by the cusp of the 7th(not sure on this one), then he is signified by Jupiter, and is in his own sign at 25* Sagittarius, in the 7th.

The end of the matter is signified by the ruler of the 4th, which is the Sun at 29 * Leo. Is this considered a critical degree in horary? The Sun is at 5* Sag in the 6th. The only aspect I see it making is approaching a square with Saturn at 8* Virgo in the 4th. Saturn is the sig for the 8th house of "other people's money/debt".

I'm not sure what to make of this chart.

I really, really appreciate all of your help. I know I'm full of questions lately, but I was out sick for 3 months, and unable to post them till now. Also, I'm finally, finally, getting some hope that I'll be able to get out of this awful place I live and get a life.

ViewChart for "Is the car still in his possession?"

(If you're having trouble viewing the chart, you'll need to do one of the following, depending on your browser: Click in the upper left hand corner - you should see a little magnifying glass
OR Click in the upper left hand corner - look for orange ball with blue arrows in lower right hand corner of chart - click on the orange ball.)

Bumping this one up, as I never received a response. Would anybody like to try their hand at it now?

freedom lover, Personally I feel you need to pick just one of these questions: Whats more important to you right now? Knowing WHO has your car? Or Knowing whether you will get it back?
When two horaries are posted it potentially creates confusion in the discussion....For a horary to WORK, one must have a strong personal investment in it.-intense focus on ONE question.
I dont think horaries work at ALL like tarot. Let me explain:
I believe a horary will yield the whole picture (within the time frame that the same planets are the significators in the chart), whereas tarot will show an aspect only of the situation...
For example....a horary is like *turning on the light when you go in a room* whereas selecting a card to answer a question is more like shining a torch on a single aspect of the situation.If you are reading your own cards its just not possible to have the degree of objectivity needed whereas horary is somewhat dispassionate-there are rules to follow and only following them will lead to the correct answer.
With tarot, the integrity of the *reader* is of prime significance whereas for horary the outcome is objectively there to be known-the skill of the horarist being paramount....One art requires *insight* and the other requires *knowledge*.I dont think they are comparable personally. I use both.

So which chart would you like to look at here?
Cheers, Lillyjgc

Lillyjgc,

I want to know if I will get it back. However the second question may shed some more light on things. It seems like many of the questions I've asked have had some "shades of grey" in the interpretations. So, I thought the second would complement the first, if need be. I think the two work together. There are circumstances in play that could possibly cause one to be a "yes", and the other a "no". They were both clearly defined "in the moment" questions, and were asked weeks apart. My thought also was that one person may be more drawn to one question than the other, and another person may be more drawn to the other question. That way, I could get several different insights on the situation. But that would necessitate getting more than one answer to this thread - which so far, you're the first one to show any interest.

Also, I'm of the understanding that some horaries are a "yes, but only if you do this or that to make it happen" kind of stuff. So, if the first were that kind of answer, the second would possibly add another layer of detail.

You can pick whichever you seem most drawn to. If it's all the same to you, then go with the first.

Thanks,

FL

I never really got any response to this old thread. However, I now know the answer to the Number 2 question: "Is the car still in his possession". I now know what happened to my car. For the sake of sharpening one's horary skills, would anyone now like to take a stab at it, as I can provide quick feedback?

Btw, I read an interesting article on Deb Houlding's Skyscript about automobiles, and she convinced me that they are a 3rd house significator, not a 2nd house, as I had previously thought.

Dear Freedom Lover:
I think it's important to know that Horary is based on adhering to strictures or rules. These rules can be great time savers and can help us move on.

I noticed with regard to your your first question you seemed to have overlooked the fact that the Ascendant was 3 degrees 32min of Cancer rising.

In Horary Astrology a chart is not considered radical with a rising of between 0-3degrees.

The Ten Minute Astrologer said:

Dear Freedom Lover:
I think it's important to know that Horary is based on adhering to strictures or rules. These rules can be great time savers and can help us move on.

I noticed with regard to your your first question you seemed to have overlooked the fact that the Ascendant was 3 degrees 32min of Cancer rising.

In Horary Astrology a chart is not considered radical with a rising of between 0-3degrees.

Click to expand...

Last time I checked, 3 degrees 32 minutes was a little over half a degree past 3 degrees.

Yes you are right. I have been using Derek Appleby's book for years and have basically followed his advice regarding judgment issues.

He states that 0-3 degrees would not be radical. So when I see even a half a minute I still won't judge. That's just me and how I determine parameters.

Certainly I could be wrong because even William Lilly states 0-2 is not radical as well as Olivia Barclay. And who am I to argue with William Lilly after all.

I love Appleby's book so much that I just followed his rules. I guess I just play it safe.

So you are right.

In the first chart...cars are ruled by the 3rd and lost objects or valuables are ruled by second or the moon. You are also ruled by the moon.
The moon is in the 7th house and I think we can say that the mechanic, your open enemy, is the 7th house.
The moon, your possession, is in his house.
The fact that saturn is in your 3rd house and rules 8th of others resources (and his second) certainly brings the image of his livelihood.
The moon is the key in this chart and you would want to see its last aspect. It looks like the sextile to the sun implies you will get it back. I did not pull up the strengths of the planets. The fact that you are in his house means that he has the strength. The fact that the sun is in your 5th house and under mars exaltation and mars is in your 1st house looks like there will be some conflict.
The second chart shows the sun, ruler of the third house of cars, in the 6th or his 12th house...confinement. You are now mercury.
Okay I am really confused. I just looked at the dates on these charts. This was like 2007. I don't think you can ask a horary using dates from two years ago?
Can you elucidate ?

Never mind. I see what you are doing. This is a test
The sun..ruler of the 3rd house of cars is in the 6th house or his 12th implying either issues with details,health or co-worker and his 12th of secret enemies and confinement. The sun is in jupiters sign and jupiter rules the 7th of open enemies so he still has the car. You are merc also in the 6th house of details, co-workers etc. The moon is in the 2nd house of valuables and money. It will trine your car but only when it changes signs.
The sun is squaring saturn in the 4th end of the matter. Saturn rules 8th of others resources as well as 9th of legal matters thus there is a frustration with legal as well as borrowed money or others resources or money owed to you?

Thank you sooo much for replying, cassandra!

However, I'm going to refrain from commenting specifically on what you wrote until I see if anyone else wants to try. I'll get back to you.

FL

Anymore budding or not-so-budding horarists want to take a shot at the second question? I'm going to give it a few more days for some more to reply, and then post the outcome. Thank you to Cassanra for patiently waiting.

Nobody wants to try when they get an almost immediate outcome?

Bumping it up again to give others a chance to try. Newbies, try the second chart, and see what you can get from it. I'll post the answer in a few days, so you get almost immediate feedback. It's not that hard to just try.... really.

freedomlover said:

Bumping it up again to give others a chance to try. Newbies, try the second chart, and see what you can get from it. I'll post the answer in a few days, so you get almost immediate feedback. It's not that hard to just try.... really.

Click to expand...

Okay here goes nothing. I am really bad at horary because i automatically go into natal/psychological mode.

Okay, you would be the 1st, which is ruled by Mercury, which is in the 6th in Scorpio.
So you would be buried in routine details perhaps, in trying to sort this matter out.

The question would be about the car, which is the 3rd house, OR lost items, which is the 2nd house. So right away I don't know which house to look at here.

Also, the guy in question would be the 7th, I suppose. So do I look at how Jupiter connects with the 3rd or second?

The moon is applying to an inconjunct to Jupiter, but i don't think I am allowed to use those, even though imo that says he does NOT have possession anymore due to unusual circumstances.


The Moon also is applying to a trine with you, as Mercury, so MAYBE you will gain somehow in this situation.
'
However, I do remember a rule that says IF Mars is rising, the answer to the question is NO. SO I am going to say NO, he does not have possession, although hopefully with the Moon trine Mercury, you came out okay .

OOps, Saturn in the 4th should be the end of the matter. That does not bode well...correct? I mean it squares the ruler of the 3rd, autos., so again, a NO ?
Also, the Sun which rules the 3rd, and autos, is in Sag, which is the ruler of the 7th, or the guy in question. But the Sun is in the 6th, so he does have knowledge as to where the auto is, and it MAY be that he is in control of the info---but not have possession per se. It may be that an employee of his has the auto. ?????

Thanks so much for taking a stab at it, katydid.

I know what you mean, I have a hard time staying out of regular chart reading mode when I do horary. Sometimes I think it's good to blend the styles a little, though.

You had some very interesting insights on the chart, and I think you did very well for a self-proclaimed beginner. I'll be getting back to you after I give a little more time to see if anyone else wants to try.

FL

I'll leave this thread open to attempts for one more day. Then I will post the answer.

OKAY...... I've given this enough time. I'll give the answer to the two responders:

For almost 18 months, I thought my car was long gone. However, a little while ago, a friend said she saw a car that looked like mine behind the shop. I got to go by there the other day - and Voila! There was my car!
So - yes, he has had it in in his possession. I was wondering if he was going to sell it outright, sell it for parts, give it to a family member to drive, or whatever -- but he has it.

Cassandra interpreted the correct answer from the chart:

cassanra said:

Never mind. I see what you are doing. This is a test
The sun..ruler of the 3rd house of cars is in the 6th house or his 12th implying either issues with details,health or co-worker and his 12th of secret enemies and confinement. The sun is in jupiters sign and jupiter rules the 7th of open enemies so he still has the car. You are merc also in the 6th house of details, co-workers etc. The moon is in the 2nd house of valuables and money. It will trine your car but only when it changes signs.
The sun is squaring saturn in the 4th end of the matter. Saturn rules 8th of others resources as well as 9th of legal matters thus there is a frustration with legal as well as borrowed money or others resources or money owed to you?

Click to expand...

Yes, Cass, money is a very frustrated subject, which is why I've been stuck as able to do anything about it.

katydid also was correct with something she derived from the chart:

quoting katydid: But the Sun is in the 6th, so he does have knowledge as to where the auto is, and it MAY be that he is in control of the info---but not have possession per se. It may be that an employee of his has the auto. ?????

Click to expand...

It was actually his brother, who co-manages the place, that did the actual work without my permission, and thereby hijacking my car for ransom. I think his brother is is chief employee. But the owner supported his decision - so I'm holding him responsible, too. He could have rectified it.

NOW, I just hope Cassandra is just as right about the first chart, that also kindly gave her interpretation on:

In the first chart...cars are ruled by the 3rd and lost objects or valuables are ruled by second or the moon. You are also ruled by the moon.
The moon is in the 7th house and I think we can say that the mechanic, your open enemy, is the 7th house.
The moon, your possession, is in his house.
The fact that saturn is in your 3rd house and rules 8th of others resources (and his second) certainly brings the image of his livelihood.
The moon is the key in this chart and you would want to see its last aspect. It looks like the sextile to the sun implies you will get it back. I did not pull up the strengths of the planets. The fact that you are in his house means that he has the strength. The fact that the sun is in your 5th house and under mars exaltation and mars is in your 1st house looks like there will be some conflict.

Click to expand...

Thanks to both of you for helping me with the chart. I hope this has been a good horary exercise for you, as well.

Freedomlover

Some interesting things about the first chart ( Will I get my car back?)

This was the Sabian Symbol for the AC: ( I had to laugh - that is EXACTLY the way I felt! - he the cat - me the mouse)
4º Cancer (94): A CAT ARGUING WITH A MOUSE.

Also Vesta rules personal safety, and also the safety of personal belongings. Mars in Cancer was exactly on my natal Vesta (r) in Cancer in my 7th house at the time of this chart, and was opposing transiting Vesta in Capricorn in my 1st house with a tight orb of 5 arc minutes at the time this question was asked!!!