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  #1  
Unread 12-30-2010, 11:10 AM
Inside Out Orange Inside Out Orange is offline
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Midheaven in equal house system

Traditionally the midheaven represents the start of the 10th house. But under equal house system it will fall elsewhere. For example, my midheaven falls in the 9th house. Pluto will be hitting it in a couple of years, but doesn't enter my 10th house for about 15 years ...

Obviously fans of other house systems will point to this being a flaw of the equal house system. Can the midheaven only fall in the 9th or 10th? Can it get further away?

Is there any guidance on how to interpret this situation? Is a midheaven in the 9th taken to mean something subtly different to the usual midheaven?

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Unread 12-30-2010, 03:59 PM
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Re: Midheaven in equal house system

Hi, I think the Midheaven is just the Midheaven and nothing can change that. The Midheaven is just another personal point. The Midheaven can't be in the 9th or 10th house, it can only be in a sign. Yet the planets can be in houses.

But I see the Midheaven as a personal point, just like the Ascendant, Nadir, and Descendant. These are personal points it doesn't matter if you are looking at differing house systems. The planets are in the houses, the points don't change. The planets are energy that we focus on. The points are us already.
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Unread 12-31-2010, 11:58 PM
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Re: Midheaven in equal house system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inside Out Orange View Post
Traditionally the midheaven represents the start of the 10th house. But under equal house system it will fall elsewhere. For example, my midheaven falls in the 9th house. Pluto will be hitting it in a couple of years, but doesn't enter my 10th house for about 15 years ...

Obviously fans of other house systems will point to this being a flaw of the equal house system. Can the midheaven only fall in the 9th or 10th? Can it get further away?

Is there any guidance on how to interpret this situation? Is a midheaven in the 9th taken to mean something subtly different to the usual midheaven?
Mid heaven is a point just like ASC, IC, Vertex, PF, DC, EP. It is house system choice to use it or not.

Most popular Noon Charts has no ASC and MC, no house. Sun Sign astrologers excel in Sun Sign. Moon Astrim Astrologers excel in Moon Astrim (Vedic Astrologers). Noon Chart Astrologres excel in Noon Charts.
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Unread 01-01-2011, 03:23 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: Midheaven in equal house system

The ancients (at least through the 6th century) had the exact same attitude regarding this question as expressed by dhundhun, above (and which I fully agree with) Only later did efforts begin (in Western astrology) to force the MC ALWAYS to be the 10th house cusp, which marked the introduction into Western astrology of the various quadrant house systems (beginning in the early 7th century) Porphyry, then Rhetorius/Alchabitius, then Regiomantus and Campanella, then Placidus, then Koch, and so on...
Alchabitius,
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Unread 01-02-2011, 03:28 AM
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Re: Midheaven in equal house system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inside Out Orange View Post
Traditionally the midheaven represents the start of the 10th house. But under equal house system it will fall elsewhere. For example, my midheaven falls in the 9th house. Pluto will be hitting it in a couple of years, but doesn't enter my 10th house for about 15 years ...

Obviously fans of other house systems will point to this being a flaw of the equal house system. Can the midheaven only fall in the 9th or 10th? Can it get further away?

Is there any guidance on how to interpret this situation? Is a midheaven in the 9th taken to mean something subtly different to the usual midheaven?
The question of which house method to use is often a vexed one.....

Perhaps the MC or Midheaven is just a point and where it falls is not so significant. The 10th house is still the house of career, goals, authority figures, our public life and reputation.....THe ruler of the MC and where it is may be of greater importance. Saturn, in your case, which naturally rules the 10th as it happens....Just to watch the effects of your transits will give you a clearer picture. Your 9th house is really busy right now but remember that the aspects there have to have an echo in the natal chart which is always triggered off.
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Last edited by Claire19; 01-02-2011 at 03:39 AM.
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Unread 01-10-2011, 10:14 AM
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Re: Midheaven in equal house system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inside Out Orange View Post
Traditionally the midheaven represents the start of the 10th house. But under equal house system it will fall elsewhere. For example, my midheaven falls in the 9th house. Pluto will be hitting it in a couple of years, but doesn't enter my 10th house for about 15 years ...

Obviously fans of other house systems will point to this being a flaw of the equal house system. Can the midheaven only fall in the 9th or 10th? Can it get further away?

Is there any guidance on how to interpret this situation? Is a midheaven in the 9th taken to mean something subtly different to the usual midheaven?
Conj 10th house cusp (not MC) will have similar but weaker effects as if it were conj MC. MC in Equal can fall in 9th, 10th, 11th and occasionally 12th depending on Lat and Long.

MC in 9th can suggest interests in 9th house matters, higher education,the law, travel. More important is where MC ruler is placed and how it is aspected....

Career options are assessed by MC any planets conjunct, where the ruler of MC is placed, it’s aspects, then 2nd house ‘how you earn your money’ and planets there, ruler of cusp and where it’s placed, then 6th house of ‘type of work you do’ any planets there and how they are aspected.

Researching rulers of houses will help you understand more where I joining the dots so to speak
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/rulersofhousesinhouses.html
http://www.trans4mind.com/personal_development/astrology/LearningAstrology/housesDerived.htm
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/houserulerships.htm
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Unread 01-10-2011, 10:18 AM
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Re: Midheaven in equal house system

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Originally Posted by kaminari View Post
Hi, I think the Midheaven is just the Midheaven and nothing can change that. The Midheaven is just another personal point. The Midheaven can't be in the 9th or 10th house, it can only be in a sign. Yet the planets can be in houses.

But I see the Midheaven as a personal point, just like the Ascendant, Nadir, and Descendant. These are personal points it doesn't matter if you are looking at differing house systems. The planets are in the houses, the points don't change. The planets are energy that we focus on. The points are us already.
In Equal house of course it can be in any house from 8th to 12th....

http://www.solsticepoint.com/astrologersmemorial/hone.html
http://www.skyviewzone.com/birthinfoforms2/housesexplained.htm
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Z0nnE2IP7A4C&pg=PA167&dq=astrology+equal+ house&as_brr=3&ei=i0iJS-PlGo3mygS89Nn8DQ&cd=2#v=onepage&q=astrology%20equa l%20house&f=false

EQUAL HOUSES
“Another of the three most popular house systems is Equal houses which is just what its name implies. All the houses have the same degree on each cusp, and there are no interceptions. Equal house systems are especially useful for people born in the northernmost and southernmost latitudes, and this system is the most popular one in use outside of the United States.”
http://www.esotericapublications.com/art-eso-011.htm

Equal house system is the only system that is erected in the plane of the Earths orbit. The zodiac is erected in the plane of the Earths orbit around the Sun which comprises of a 360 degree circle that surrounds the Earth. The mid-heaven is often more, or less than ninety degrees (three signs) from the ascendant, therefore it is not often placed on the tenth house cusp, but marked where it appears in the mid-heaven according to the latitude and longitude of birth. The mid-heaven is taken as an important point; it is the point of self-mastery.
http://marianneohagan.com/house.htm


“The simplest approaches, the equal-house and whole-sign methods, merely require knowledge of the ascendant or ascending sign, and an equal division throughout the rest of the zodiac eliminates the need for any complicated calculations
Yet recent research into classical astrology has created a renewed interest in these simple techniques from a more scholarly perspective. The point of strength is that, regardless of the originating theory behind house division, in practice at least, classical astrologers tended to tie the houses to the signs, apparently concurring with Pelletier, who wrote in defence of the equal house method”
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/houprob4.html
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  #8  
Unread 01-10-2011, 10:35 AM
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Re: Midheaven in equal house system

I agree with kaminari, dhundhun, and dr. farr. The MC and it's ruler should be delineated separately from the 10th house and it's ruler, especially since they are not always "together"...

The same thing happens with whole sign houses. One solution is to use a quadrant house system to "weigh" the planets in terms of angularity, and then forget about it in delineation, instead focusing on whole sign houses... The MC is still important, but this way it won't bother you as much, if that makes sense... It allows you to focus on the MC as a chart factor to delineate rather than focusing on it as a cusp...
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Unread 08-19-2012, 07:41 PM
!4C !4C is offline
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Re: Midheaven in equal house system

So, does anyone use MC house location when delineating charts?

I wonder if the MC point indicates the career motivation of the individual (what they want to be recognized for), while the 10th indicates their actual status within the establishment. The difference seems to describe my career situation well.

Or to put it another way, personal career values may differ from what other people expect.
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Unread 08-20-2012, 03:09 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: Midheaven in equal house system

I use to floating MC point, much in the way you have indicated above...
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Unread 08-20-2012, 03:16 AM
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Re: Midheaven in equal house system

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Originally Posted by !4C View Post
So, does anyone use MC house location when delineating charts?

I wonder if the MC point indicates the career motivation of the individual (what they want to be recognized for), while the 10th indicates their actual status within the establishment. The difference seems to describe my career situation well.

Or to put it another way, personal career values may differ from what other people expect.
If I understand what you wrote correctly. That makes sense for me.

I don't think I'll ever work with something indicated by my Venus Libra in the 10th it's more like I come across as fashionable etc "in the public eye", however the MC at Scorpio with Mars Sun Pluto in 11th........might just describe my ideas for a Career much better.
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Unread 08-20-2012, 03:28 AM
Alice McDermott Alice McDermott is offline
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Re: Midheaven in equal house system

Theories aside, just observe what happens in your own chart and those of your family and friends.

Observation will tell you that a transiting planet conjunct the MC will describe dealings with authority figures, parents and career matters and when that planet continues its transit through the 10th house (as defined by the MC being the cusp of the 10th house) and makes contact with other planets in the chart, 10th house matters are to the fore.

I looked into the MC in other houses using the equal houses from the Ascendant system many, many years ago and found little credence in it.

For example, I have the MC in the 9th equal house from the Ascendant and I am not a lawyer, involved in higher education (other than astrology), or matters to do with travel, in fact I don't enjoy travel at all.

Alice
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Unread 08-20-2012, 05:27 AM
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Re: Midheaven in equal house system

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Originally Posted by Alice McDermott View Post
Theories aside, just observe what happens in your own chart and those of your family and friends.

Observation will tell you that a transiting planet conjunct the MC will describe dealings with authority figures, parents and career matters and when that planet continues its transit through the 10th house (as defined by the MC being the cusp of the 10th house) and makes contact with other planets in the chart, 10th house matters are to the fore.

I looked into the MC in other houses using the equal houses from the Ascendant system many, many years ago and found little credence in it.

For example, I have the MC in the 9th equal house from the Ascendant and I am not a lawyer, involved in higher education (other than astrology), or matters to do with travel, in fact I don't enjoy travel at all.

Alice
Excuse my ignorance, I'm perhaps just a little confused about certain words used in this thread and others.
So as far as using Equal house systems you suggest the MC simply to be placed at the start of the 10th (if you'd use that house system at all that is)?

Either way, I agree, observation in different forms is the best in many cases to find out about astrology.
The simple fact that, I through my moderate knowledge of astrology, find the placidus house system and basically all others except equal and whole sign (for people born like me far north) to be absurd not only 'cause the houses get extremely small and big most of the times (and it is hilariously hard for people to explain the mathematics etc behind them it seems), but through mostly studying myself/natal chart and some transits and comparing it.
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Unread 08-20-2012, 05:39 AM
!4C !4C is offline
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Re: Midheaven in equal house system

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Originally Posted by Alice McDermott View Post
Observation will tell you that a transiting planet conjunct the MC will describe dealings with authority figures, parents and career matters and when that planet continues its transit through the 10th house (as defined by the MC being the cusp of the 10th house) and makes contact with other planets in the chart, 10th house matters are to the fore.
I've heard a number of claims that placidus fits best for natal and equal fits best for transits. At one point I was convinced of this too, so I had the idea of overlaying placidus and equal to create overlap zones where both houses apply. Right now I'm just trying scrutinize the uniqueness of the equal house approach. I'm starting to like it lately.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alice McDermott View Post
For example, I have the MC in the 9th equal house from the Ascendant and I am not a lawyer, involved in higher education (other than astrology), or matters to do with travel, in fact I don't enjoy travel at all.
Same here, but the essence of the 9th is exploration of subjects for the purpose of piecing together the big picture. The usual list of 9th house activities are only some of the ways to support this behavior. I majored in technology to satisfy this core behavior. Unfortunately, I always clash with management because they feel I should be more focused on steering my career up the ladder rather than solving technical challenges on my projects. My MC outside of the 10th shows that I care less about my status with management as I do with actual technical activities. If I did what they wanted, I wouldn't be with technology anymore. So, yeah, an authority transit to my MC will probably be a direct attack against who I want to be.

Last edited by !4C; 04-16-2017 at 11:01 PM.
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Unread 08-20-2012, 05:42 AM
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Re: Midheaven in equal house system

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Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
I use to floating MC point, much in the way you have indicated above...
Thanks. I wanted to see if other people take this seriously.

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Originally Posted by Skywomb View Post
I don't think I'll ever work with something indicated by my Venus Libra in the 10th it's more like I come across as fashionable etc "in the public eye", however the MC at Scorpio with Mars Sun Pluto in 11th........might just describe my ideas for a Career much better.
Sounds like you got the right idea.
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Unread 08-20-2012, 05:59 AM
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Re: Midheaven in equal house system

I'm not sure how I missed this article on astro.com before. It mentions that people with MC out of the 10th will not want to follow in the footsteps of the their parents or tradition. This implies that career aspirations will not be in-line with what is expected.
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Unread 08-20-2012, 06:10 AM
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Re: Midheaven in equal house system

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Thanks. I wanted to see if other people take this seriously.

Sounds like you got the right idea.
Just to be absolutely 1st house saturn capricorn rising -kind of sure. I'll relay this question to you as well: So as far as using Equal house systems you suggest the MC simply to be placed at the start of the 10th (if you'd use that house system at all that is)?

But now time for more vodka.
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Unread 08-20-2012, 07:11 AM
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Re: Midheaven in equal house system

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So as far as using Equal house systems you suggest the MC simply to be placed at the start of the 10th (if you'd use that house system at all that is)?
No. Are you referring to the equal house system referenced to the MC (10th cusp = MC)? I was discussing traditional equal house plus the MC as a separate point that can be anywhere.

Applying the theory, your chart indicates a desire to succeed in scorpio/11th house matters. This is where you will judge your success. However, the libra/10th house indicates how others will judge your success. Your case is interesting so you should come back and update this thread some day if you can verify or invalidate this.
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Unread 08-21-2012, 04:31 AM
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Re: Midheaven in equal house system

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Originally Posted by !4C View Post
No. Are you referring to the equal house system referenced to the MC (10th cusp = MC)? I was discussing traditional equal house plus the MC as a separate point that can be anywhere.

Applying the theory, your chart indicates a desire to succeed in scorpio/11th house matters. This is where you will judge your success. However, the libra/10th house indicates how others will judge your success. Your case is interesting so you should come back and update this thread some day if you can verify or invalidate this.
I just realized when I woke up just now, my 12th house Mercury was playing me tricks there. But there's always two ways to answer a question, both get the desired anwser (well sometimes)... (edit: Oh **** look at that sentence haha)

Thanks for the confirmation.
And sure, I'll try doing that.
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