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Houses & cusps For discussions on houses and house cusps (i.e. planets on angles, house stelliums and so on)


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  #1  
Unread 06-21-2015, 02:31 PM
seamoon seamoon is offline
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i'm equal houses, are you?

After probing into my houses for a long time I realised that the equal house system suits me more. I had to be careful about how I feel, wondering if it's just a phase or rather. And is through feelings and a prolonged period of time I examine my own houses.

The problem with the more conventional Placidus is that I would have an overloaded 6th house. (Two charts are attached.) Whereas I still have some planets in the 6th with the Equal system, my Mars and Saturn moves to the 5th house. It is by reading on the 5th house and respective planets therein I wonder if equal houses is the way to go. To touch on the the behaviours of the planets: I can definitely be a bit of party pooper sometimes. It generally takes me time to let go and have fun. My Mars in the 5th however balances it out sometimes. I can not say that I'm Mars in the 6th house, as it would make me more hard working which is the opposite of me.


What is your opinions on this?

seamoon
Attached Images
File Type: jpg birth chart.jpg (109.1 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg BIRTH CHART EQUAL.jpg (107.5 KB, 22 views)


Last edited by seamoon; 09-23-2015 at 07:34 PM.
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  #2  
Unread 06-22-2015, 01:01 AM
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graay ghost graay ghost is offline
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Re: i'm equal houses, are you?

I've heard a lot of people say that despite the very large/very small houses you can get in Placidus, they still use it anyway because it still works for them. It seems easier to think of houses as more of a continuum than a discrete thing like signs...

I think the house the sun is in might be a good indicator for which to use. Do you feel more like you have a 2nd house or 3rd house sun?
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  #3  
Unread 06-22-2015, 08:25 AM
urano urano is offline
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Re: i'm equal houses, are you?

I took a look at your both charts and yes, I feel a little uncomfortable with the first which looks strange.
For births in very high-latitudes, Placidus system doesn’t work.

From my part my chart with Placidus looks balanced, but presently I try whole signs system which I find relevant. Whole signs isn’t equal houses, but it’s near.
I don’t know if I will finally change for whole signs, or stay with both Placidus and whole signs. I observe.

Last edited by urano; 06-22-2015 at 09:21 AM.
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  #4  
Unread 06-22-2015, 12:29 PM
urano urano is offline
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Re: i'm equal houses, are you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by seamoon View Post
Whole signs suits me to an extent, but my jupiter moves from the 6th to the 7th. I think it should stay in the 6th, therefore I chose the equal houses. I am going to try other house system too but at the moment it's only my sun that's a bit weird both in the 2nd and the 3rd houses. Perhaps aspects to the sun alter it a little bit.
I see.
With Jupiter in bad shape which rules your 6th house and in the 6th (with equal), it isn’t very protective about your health.
If Jupiter is in the 7th (with whole signs), then your relationships could be a little disappointing.

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Would be interesting to have a look at the your chart
I keep this thing discreet
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  #5  
Unread 06-22-2015, 01:03 PM
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Re: i'm equal houses, are you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by seamoon View Post
Placidus is used to work for me, but I always had problems with the large 6th house.

Yes, the second house sun seems more probable to me, since I really do display taurean characteristics except that I don't identify with my possessions. Possessions are not important, only to a degree. I seem to lose quite a lot of them too and don't seem to bother that much about it. Then again, third house doesn't really suit me.

seamoon
What do you mean by "identify with your possessions"?

But yes, equal houses is more popular in certain places for exactly this reason, at certain latitudes you get crazy-looking charts like this. I was going to recommend a chart that equalizes the size of houses within the quadrants (eg 1, 2, 3 would be the same, and 4, 5, 6 would be the same -- I forgot the name of this system, though) but if 2nd house sun works better than 3rd you're going to have to use something like equal houses or whole signs.

I've looked at equal houses before for myself, but in equal houses I have a 3rd and 8th house stellium and I just don't think I'm prepared to admit that I'm that unbalanced
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  #6  
Unread 06-23-2015, 04:33 PM
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Re: i'm equal houses, are you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by seamoon View Post
After probing into my houses for a long time I realised that the equal house system suits me more. I had to be careful about how I feel, wondering if it's just a phase or rather. And is through feelings and a prolonged period of time I examine my own houses.

The problem with the more conventional Placidus is that I would have an overloaded 6th house. (Two charts are attached.) Whereas I still have some planets in the 6th with the Equal system, my Mars and Saturn moves to the 5th house. It is by reading on the 5th house and respective planets therein I wonder if equal houses is the way to go. To touch on the the behaviours of the planets: I can definitely be a bit of party pooper sometimes. It generally takes me time to let go and have fun. My Mars in the 5th however balances it out sometimes. I can not say that I'm Mars in the 6th house, as it would make me more hard working which is the opposite of me.


What is your opinions on this?

seamoon
I think it's silly to change House Systems just because you don't like the way the Chart looks.

The Equal House System only exists because idiots misinterpreted what Ptolemy said, so, no, Ptolemy didn't use Equal Houses.

It doesn't matter what House System you use, you can't get around the Ruler of the 1st House is in the 6th House, Capricorn Jupiter opposes your Ascendant, and you have Saturn in the 5th House in Trine to the Ascendant.

In case you forgot, Saturn cools, hardens, restricts, constricts, reserves, etc etc etc. Saturn is also Peregrine in your Chart, so he'll look to Mars as to how to act.
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  #7  
Unread 06-24-2015, 12:00 PM
urano urano is offline
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Re: i'm equal houses, are you?

A link towards a good article concerning Whole Sign House:
http://horoscopicastrologyblog.com/2007/06/10/whole-sign-houses/
Some excerpts below (I don't promote particularly this system, it's to understand this topic)

On another web-page I find as well these interesting words (from Chris Brennan): "At least give it a try and go through a few old charts of people who you know and see if it resonates or elucidates certain areas which had always been a mystery before. Many of the charts may not even change at all, but for the ones that do, be sure to pay attention to planets changing houses, house rulership, and which sign the Midheaven falls in."

Quote:
In 1982 the astrologer, linguist and historian of astrology James Holden published a paper in the American Federation of Astrologers Journal of Research titled ‘Ancient House Division’. In this paper Holden was actually the first astrologer and historian of astrology in modern times to point out that the original method of house division wasn’t equal houses where each house cusp is exactly 30 degrees apart starting from the ascendant, but it was actually whole sign houses, or the “sign-house” system as he called it.
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The question of house in the modern period
After the 9th century the quadrant style divisions of the houses became the standard, but out of this sprouted one of the longest held debates in the history of astrology: which is the correct house system to use? After the 9th century dozens of different forms of house division began to appear and be developed and debated upon by astrologers who were trying to cope with the question of house division.
Even today the problem of house division is a common issue, and perhaps one of the biggest inconsistencies with the practice of astrology in the modern period. There are many different astrologers using various forms of house division and there is little agreement upon a common standard or even a consistent rationale for why each person uses the specific system that they use.
Placidus is the most widespread system of house division at the moment, but as James Holden points out in his work A History of Horoscopic Astrology this is largely only a result of the fact that it was grandfathered in because it was the only system of houses for which there were widely available tables that were needed for the calculations in the early 20th century

Last edited by urano; 06-24-2015 at 01:20 PM.
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  #8  
Unread 06-24-2015, 03:12 PM
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Re: i'm equal houses, are you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobZemco View Post
I think it's silly to change House Systems just because you don't like the way the Chart looks.

The Equal House System only exists because idiots misinterpreted what Ptolemy said, so, no, Ptolemy didn't use Equal Houses.

It doesn't matter what House System you use, you can't get around the Ruler of the 1st House is in the 6th House, Capricorn Jupiter opposes your Ascendant, and you have Saturn in the 5th House in Trine to the Ascendant.

In case you forgot, Saturn cools, hardens, restricts, constricts, reserves, etc etc etc. Saturn is also Peregrine in your Chart, so he'll look to Mars as to how to act.
Sorry guys I'm a bit rusty: Ptolemy used which House System? Whole-Sign or Regiomontanous (sp?), or Alcabitius? From what I've read he doesn't seem to mention house systems at all.

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  #9  
Unread 06-24-2015, 07:19 PM
Drsendero Drsendero is offline
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Re: i'm equal houses, are you?

You're right, Ptolemy hardly mentions houses at all, only a few times and in those few times it's not easy to tell how he conceived of them. For a long time, people read his works as describing the Equal House system, but Robert Hand in his little booklet on Whole Sign Houses said that the same sentences can be interpreted as describing Whole Sign. Rather than delineate using houses, Ptolemy seemed to prefer using the lots and the essential significations of planets instead.

In any case, there are a number of traditional astrologers who argue that Whole Sign was not the only system used in Hellenistic times. Valens describes what appears to be Equal House with a five degree offset and he also describes Porphyry in his Anthologies. The earliest Greek chart that we actually can see has Porphyry houses. This is not to say that WSH wasn't being used, or that it shouldn't be today, it just clearly was not the only one used during the Hellenistic era. Most ancient authors, unfortunately, do not clearly describe how the houses were determined so we're left guessing and experimenting.
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