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Houses & cusps For discussions on houses and house cusps (i.e. planets on angles, house stelliums and so on)


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  #1  
Unread 10-22-2014, 05:53 PM
wayfarer wayfarer is offline
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which house system you find works best in practice

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Last edited by wayfarer; 10-24-2014 at 01:20 PM.
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  #2  
Unread 10-22-2014, 05:55 PM
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Re: which house system you find works best in practice

Quote:
Originally Posted by wayfarer View Post

when you do a reading for western charts?

I'm interested in predicting transits when it's about cusps in the same sign, presuming the birth data was accurate

placidus?
koch?
porphyry?
campanus?
topocentric?
krusinski?

something else maybe?

I do know about this article


http://www.astrowisdom.net/articles/...use-system.htm

but I'm curious about your personal experience
WHOLE SIGN for TOPICS

ALCABITIUS for PLANETARY STRENGTH
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  #3  
Unread 10-22-2014, 05:57 PM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Re: which house system you find works best in practice

As almost everyone who has been here awhile knows, I used to use porphyry. But about 20 years ago I discovered the Astrodyne System. Using that system I have been able to do things that were impossible without it.

Since that system was normed over 30 years with more than 30,000 charts each using the data from a 79 page questionnaire, using PLACIDUS, I was forced to switch to Placidus for accuracy.
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Unread 10-22-2014, 06:00 PM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Re: which house system you find works best in practice

"Although Placidus is simple in concept, the mathematical trigonometry behind it is complex, with cusp positions adjusted in a complicated technique based on the use of hour cycles. ([10] ) Alcabitius and Koch are systems that work along similar time-based projections, all of which involve associating the angles with the Ascendant and Midheaven and dividing by three the time taken for the degree of the Ascendant to move to the Midheaven, to find the intermediate cusps. The fundamental differences lie in the way these projections are related to the ecliptic, by use of hour circles, vertical circles, or projection of the Ascendant. Alcabitius, which uses vertical circles, bears the name of the 12th-century Arabian astrologer, Alchabitus, but it is unclear whether Placidus predates the Alcabitius system or vice versa. (It is clear that those whose names have become celebrated as champions of techniques are not always reliable indicators of their first invention.)"

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/houprob4.html
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  #5  
Unread 10-22-2014, 06:42 PM
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Re: which house system you find works best in practice

My suggestion is NO to any system that changes ASC.

I use Placidus Chart with "East Point" added to it. Other systems I tried using are Koch, Regiomontanus and Meridian.

Vedic is of course ASC driven sidereal whole sign system.
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  #6  
Unread 10-22-2014, 11:59 PM
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Re: which house system you find works best in practice

I use Placidus exclusively. It has proven itself over years in highly technical rectification work. It is also more reliable for natal house categorizations compared to Koch -- assuming you have an accurate Asc -- to the degree.

Placidus works up to latitudes of 66* N/S. Past that we do not have an accurate house system.

Your biggest job in getting accurate transits or progressions involving house cusps is to first arrive at an accurate Asc. Otherwise house systems are nearly pointless.
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  #7  
Unread 10-23-2014, 02:05 AM
milkywaygirl milkywaygirl is offline
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Re: which house system you find works best in practice

i use placidus, but i will also check equal. i find that equal house is the "under layer" of a person, whereas placidus is more connected to the reality of the person. whatever they are doing and acting on in placidus, is deeply related to equal.
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Unread 10-23-2014, 02:47 AM
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Re: which house system you find works best in practice

I like to mix placidus with whole signs to get several perspectives of the person.
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  #9  
Unread 10-23-2014, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post
I like to mix placidus with whole signs to get several perspectives of the person.
Yeah i like placidus but i relate more to whole sign personally. 1st merc 12th sun 11 chrion yes but then again i can relate yo all chrions lol.
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Unread 12-08-2014, 08:21 AM
sovnd sovnd is offline
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Re: which house system you find works best in practice

I've generally used placidus or koch and have never really explored the other systems. Today however I had a look at the whole sign system and I thought it was a much more accurate fit.
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  #11  
Unread 12-08-2014, 09:28 AM
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Re: which house system you find works best in practice

Quote:
Originally Posted by sovnd View Post

I've generally used placidus or koch
and have never really explored the other systems.
Today however I had a look at the whole sign system
and I thought it was a much more accurate fit.

In that case you shall be interested to learn of the versatility of Whole Signs
which in ancient times, as well as today, historically is used in a particular way

the poster of the comment, dr. farr has studied astrology for more than fifty years
and
has studied the history of astrology in depth
dr. farr is however experiencing health problems currently
and has not posted for a few months
however the following is a comment he posted on Whole Sign Houses, explaining the original meaning of the word 'Cusps'


Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post

Cusps:

Today
and for the past thousand years or so
we define cusps as "borders" (coasts),

but that is not the original meaning of the word "cusp":

it means "point" such as cuspal teeth (bicuspids)
and
the point of a sword
-so originally the term cusp meant the "point" of something,
and in astrology originally the "cusp" of the house meant its "point";

now, when quadrant systems were developed,
this "point" of the house came to mean its "beginning",
which later came to mean its "border",
ie,
the "border" between one house and the other.

And later astrology also began using these "borders" (cusps) for various prognostic applications
(Charles Carter came to believe that, for timing of events, the "cusps" of the Campanus house system gave the best results,
among the various quadrant house systems)


But now notice this:

in whole sign the cusps are NOT the 0 degree "borders" of sign/houses at all,
and never were so regarded!

In whole sign, the "cusp" retained its original meaning,
not as a "border" but rather as A POINT

-and that POINT (cusp) for EACH house, was the sensitive point of that house,
viz,
the sensitive point in whole sign houses
-each house-
that is the "cusp" of each house
-is a direct projection from the ascending degree.


Example:

-the ascending degree of a chart is 18 Taurus:
what are the house cusps (sensitive points, original meaning of the word "cusp")
in the whole sign houses of this chart?

Cusp of 1st house = 18 Taurus
Cusp of 2nd house = 18 Gemini
Cusp of 3rd house = 18 Cancer
Cusp of 4th house = 18 Leo
Cusp of 5th house = 18 Virgo
Cusp of 6th house = 18 Libra
Cusp of 7th house = 18 Scorpio
Cusp of 8th house = 18 Sagittarius
Cusp of 9th house = 18 Capricorn
Cusp of 10th house = 18 Aquarius
Cusp of 11th house = 18 Pisces
Cusp of 12th house = 18 Aries


Now it is these "cusps" (sensitive degrees, original meaning of the word "cusp" as a "point")
that are (and were) used for progressions, timing of events, etc,
and the fact is that they work for these purposes, quite well (in expert hands)


Whole sign does not use the BORDERS between houses (always 0 degree of any sign) for anything,
but it DOES use "cusps" (points in the house, projected from the exact ascending degree)
for timing (and other) delineative purposes.


Whole sign suddenly vanished (both in the West and in Vedic astrology)
during the same period of time
-ie, late 8th to early 9th century-

this sudden disappearance suggests a sudden turn in astrological thinking and practices,
rather than a gradual supplanting of a less effective traditional method (whole sign)
by a new and more effective method (rheotrius/alchabitius in the West,
and the closely related to whole sign Equal house, in Vedic astrology)

I quite agree with Waybread in the statement, "so what?" (if old time astrologers did or didn't do something)
For me, there is only 1 reason I switched to whole sign
-it worked better (FOR ME)

I could care less if it were the oldest house system
(which it is)
or whether it was invented by Badda Bing at Barney's Beanery in Bayonne, 10 years ago:
only things I consider are:

-does it seem to make sense?
-does it "taste good" to me
(ie, does it "feel right" to me)
-and, if yes to the above,
does it work (producing delineations and predicitions)
better than what I have previously been doing?

Well, whole sign did all that, for me, so I switched;
but I am not going to try to convince anyone of anything about it,
except for beginners
-to you who might just be starting out, I would say: try whole sign first,
and see how well it might work for you...
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  #12  
Unread 12-08-2014, 09:49 AM
sovnd sovnd is offline
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Re: which house system you find works best in practice

How funny, that is the exact quote that I read earlier today prompted me to look into whole signs properly. I'm totally converted. In 15 years I've never looked at it until today...
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  #13  
Unread 12-09-2014, 05:41 AM
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Re: which house system you find works best in practice

Quote:
Originally Posted by sovnd View Post

How funny, that is the exact quote that I read earlier today prompted me to look into whole signs properly.

I'm totally converted.

In 15 years I've never looked at it until today...

dr. farr mentioned on another thread that he had used Placidus for several decades before switching to whole signs
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