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Unread 04-29-2006, 08:43 PM
Draco Draco is offline
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21 Libra right Ascendant?

Hi all,

Here is an intriguing horary.

It is a source of huge frustration to me that I not accurately know my partners birth time.

Unfortunately, he lost his mother when he was 17, and his father at 14, so his parents are no longer around for him to ask one of them what time he was born at to any degree of accuracy.

He can remember his mother telling him that he was born sometime around lunchtime, and the noon chart gives him a Scorpio Ascendant.

The good thing is, at least he does have some idea at what time he was born, so if we take noon as an average, we can speculate that if he is not Scorpio rising, that if he was born a little later, he is Sagitarius rising, or if a little earlier, he would be Libra rising.

Now personally, I feel that he was born with Libra rising, because this would make so much sense, he comes across as very strongly Libran. However, he has Venus in it's domicile in Libra so his Libra energies would come across strongly anyway.

However, if I put him at Libra rising, then this produces a chart which was before noon, and he disagrees with this, feeling strongly that he was born at least at noon, and not a long time afterward, but then I suppose it depend's how long his mother was in labour for.

I feel that he must then, be either Libra, Scorpio or Sagittarius rising, and I am inclined to Libra, despite what he says. He feels that he is Scorpio rising.

I adjusted the time for his noon chart, and the chart for 10:00 am, puts his Ascendant at 21 degrees Libra, then his exact Venus/Pluto conjunction at 22 degrees is just one degree shy of an exact conjunction with the Ascendant. When I look at this chart, this is the one that feels the most right to me.

Also this chart, would bear an interesting relation to my own, as his Venus would then just be one degree away from his Ascendant, and mine is just one degree away from my Descendant.

Anyway, having looked at the 10:00 chart, and feeling that this was more significant than the noon chart, or a chart after that time, I asked the question 'Is this the appropriate chart to use for my partner?'

What is most intriguing about this chart, is that the cusp of the 9th house, the house of astrology, happens to be at 21 degrees Libra, the very degree in question. I find this very intriguing.

I understand that this does not neccesarily indicate that this is indeed the rising degree of my partners chart, but it certainly does very nicely symbolise the nature of the issue in question.

Here is the chart:

In this chart, I am represented by Saturn as Capricorn rises, and this is very significant, as Saturn is the lord of time, and this is a question of time. Saturn is in the 7th, which again is significant because this question of timing is in regard to my partner's nativity. Saturn is in detriment here, but in term and face, showing how indecisive I am about the birth time.

He is shown by the Moon, as Cancer is on the Descendant, and the Moon separates a trine from Saturn, showing how my partners exact birth time eludes me. The fact that the Moon, showing him, is in Sagittarius, causes me to wonder if I should actually use 6 Sagittarius as the rising degree, as this is where his significator is, and this would also mean that his birth time was after 12 noon, which he insists that it was.

As I have mentioned, I feel that his rising sign must be either Libra, Scorpio or Sagittarius, and I notice that the MC, the 4th from the DC, and therefore his personal history and roots, and so perhaps his nativity, is at 18 Scorpio, conjunct Jupiter retrograde at 16 Scorpio, so could this be indicating a possible Ascendant as well?

In any case, what intrigues me the most is the 9th cusp of astrology at 21 Libra, the sign and degree I am considering for his Ascendant. This cusp is ruled by Venus, and Venus is exalted in Pisces, but this could mean that I am exaggerating Venus' significance by placing it upon the Ascendant in the rectified chart, and it is in the 2nd house of my values, which could mean that I am making a value judgement upon the matter. This Venus is also in his turned 8th, which isn't the best indication.

Then again, is Venus' exaltation a good thing?

It interests me that Venus applies a trine to Jupiter, as if to tell me go back and reconsider where Jupiter is, which is in Scorpio, the rising sign that my partner believes that he is. The fact that Jupiter is retrograde would seem to be telling me to reconsider also, by going back to Scorpio and putting his birth time closer to noon. Jupiter also recieves the Moon, the partners significator, so Jupiter bids for my attention.

However, Jupiter is peregrine here.

Is this chart telling me that I ought to be looking to the MC and Jupiter Rx's position for his Ascendant, which would 16-18 Scorpio?

Then again the Moon at 6 Sagittarius intrigues me also, and both these positions would place his birth not long after noon, which would match what he says about his birth.



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Unread 05-05-2006, 07:10 AM
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rubyelixir rubyelixir is offline
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I thought that if capricorn was on the 7th or saturn in the 7th, the chart is not fit to be judged as there is a problem with the astrologer not being able to read the chart properly (I got this in Lee Lehman;s classic Horary class) This would seem correct seeing as sat is represented in both the first house (you) & the 7th (you as the astrologer) seems like you can't judge this one , its only projection.

Hope this helps!
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Unread 05-06-2006, 11:35 PM
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Summery Joy Summery Joy is offline
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Hey Draco,

I'm not sure I could help with this horary, but I could help with rectifying the chart by discussing your partner's personality, looks and the available astrological data. That is, if you would like that.

It's important to distinguish between means and ends.
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Unread 05-09-2006, 03:03 PM
Draco Draco is offline
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Thankyou Sore

I will send you a PM.

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ascendant, libra

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