Is it true that astrology alone can predict death?

waybread

Well-known member
WB you said

not "should die at the same time" necessarily,
although it is possible


.....

example:
traditional technique discerning differences between twins born less than four minutes apart :smile:

Oh, wonderful. So will the real death prediction method please stand up?

Apparently the one you posted for Sharon Tate wouldn't work with time-twins? Or did the other people who died with her that night have the same signatures? What about their death location chart? How would that figure into Tate's death retrospective interpretation? How many methods are there, JA? Any chance they might give different results?

Please note that death prediction isn't about all of the many post-diction methods floating about where the timing and manner of death are known in advance. Before and After analyses must not be confused.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Alcabitius is just one of several popular options
available on astro.coms popular Extended Chart Selection Page :smile:

Omnisphericus delineation is Traditional
so unsurprisingly Traditional Alcabitius houses is the house system utilised
and in any event
Changing the house system does not necessarily change the indicators

Most of the better known house systems are also "traditional," in the sense that they were developed prior to 1700, including Placidus. The most common traditional house system is whole signs, which changes house cusps considerably in most charts compared to the other house systems. Moreover, changing the house system can indeed change the house cusp, giving it a different lord and thus changing the interpretation.

Sorry, JA, for someone in the business of forecasting a person's death, this kind of "flex" just isn't good enough.


Obviously every living being is "in danger of death at any time"
that's a realistic fact of life

I completely agree, which is why astrological death prediction that selects just one time is a very bad idea.


it appears you ditched dwarf planet pluto
Not hardly. There is no indication of that in my excerpt or in my posts on this thread. I do not view Pluto as indicating literal physical death. It does have an old-into-new regenerative quality of the mythical phoenix. By transit, Pluto can point to circumstances that are metaphorically "dead or dying" in a person's life, and that should be cleared away for new growth to take their place. (Gardeners: think of autumn garden clean-up here.)
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Well, good luck identifying that hierarchy.
Thanks :smile:
How would you personally go about this procedure, JA?
This way WB:


Grand Conjunction 1702
21 May 1702
4:01:37 PM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York
074°W00'37"
40°N42'26"


Great Mutation (Earth) 1802
17 Jul 1802
5:52:26 PM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York


Great Conjunction 2000
28 May 2000
11:07:39 AM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York


Great Malefic 1976
12 May 1976
9:51:13 AM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York


and then
Great Malefic 2004
25 May 2004
1:20 AM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York
....is now the operating Malefic Chart until....


Great Malefic 2034
26 Jun 2034
5:33:42 PM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York
will become operative....


2015 Aries Ingress
20 Mar 2015
6:45:10 PM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York


....Insert Your Natal Chart Here.....


That is the place of a natal chart in the traditional hierarchy of charts.

Note: Relocate the chart(s) to your country

and for maximum accuracy,

use the "foundation point"

eg: Romania = Alba Iulia, not Bucharesti
Japan = Kyoto, not Tokyo
Spain = Toledo, not Madrid
and so on



Many places have no birth charts,
or they are in dispute due to multiple founding events.

List those places


Then a natural disaster event doesn't explain situations when some victims die
but others are injured yet survive,
or some survivors are not injured.
Individual survivors natal charts if studied
would provide those answers

What your post says is that some astrologers just cannot quit on the notion that astrology predicts deaths,
so they come up with an untestable explanation.
(aka faith-based, not reason.)
On the contrary
Mundane astrology is testable
as you are aware
 

Oddity

Well-known member
I find it highly ironic that *some* trads on this board who can't even be bothered to read a simple nativity handed to them on a platter (because they claim that the process is so difficult and time-consuming,) nevertheless qualify themselves to affirm that astrologers-- never mind their qualifications-- are entitled to predict something as consequential as death.

This is disingenuous. You ask traditional astrologers to read charts so that we 'might change your mind' about things like outer planets, about which your mind is firmly made up.

I'd like to remind you that no member of this forum is required to read charts on this forum. That someone chooses not to read charts here bears no relation to their astrological competence.

In the meantime, good work, guys, in scaring away the OPer, who has not returned (yet) to this thread. Way to go.

I take it you have been in personal communication with the OP and he or she told you they will never come back because several people posted that death can be predicted astrologically?

If not, then you're leaping to an unfounded conclusion.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Your concern is understandable, however no one on our forum is "willingly frightening" anyone

the OP clearly fears that astrology can predict death
and the fact is that

whether one fears death or not, death is inevitable

JA, this is a complete non sequitur. I'm sure that 9thhouse is mature enough to understand that death is inevitable. That is very different than exploring a field with practitioners who claim they can predict the manner and time of death. We all know death is inevitable, but most of us don't care to predict it for anyone.

furthermore
your metaphor is chosen from the kindom of birds
i.e. “frighten a fledgeling astrologer

and
ironically highlights that

unfortunate though it may seem
fledgings
whether frightened or not
must fly

or else
those frightened fledglings won't live long :smile:

JA, this is another non sequitur. "Fledgling" is a common metaphor. Not all bird species fly, but their feathers still develop. Whether or not birds fly is irrelevant to the OP. I could have just as easily used the word "novice," but then I'd have to hope you didn't spin that metaphor somehow. My hope is that 9thhouse will continue to study astrology and just ignore the death prediction part.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
JA, this is a complete non sequitur. I'm sure that 9thhouse is mature enough to understand that death is inevitable.
That is very different than exploring a field with practitioners who claim they can predict the manner and time of death.
We all know death is inevitable
, but most of us don't care to predict it for anyone.

JA, this is another non sequitur. "Fledgling" is a common metaphor.
Not all bird species fly, but their feathers still develop.
Whether or not birds fly is irrelevant to the OP.
I could have just as easily used the word "novice," but then I'd have to hope you didn't spin that metaphor somehow.
My hope is that 9thhouse will continue to study astrology
and just ignore the death prediction part.
The OP had better steer clear of doctors then
and avoid reading newspapers, magazines and internet media as well
avoid watching tv
and avoid watching any documentaries or films on asteroids colliding with planet earth
because all routinely predict death :smile:

for example:
death from substance abuse
death from overweight
death from smoking related diseases
death from traffic accidents
and so on and so forth

 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
In the meantime, good work, guys, in scaring away the OPer,
who has not returned (yet) to this thread. Way to go
.
The OP posted as a consequence of being already scared :smile:
so the OP was not "scared away"

and in any event
the OP's apparent fear of death
is not the responsibility of members of this forum


the discussion of the prediction of death is not against forum rules
therefore
as with any other topic
if a member disapproves of discussing the prediction of death
or any other topic
then that member has the option to discontinue their participation in the discussion


 

waybread

Well-known member
Thanks :smile:

This way WB:


Grand Conjunction 1702
21 May 1702
4:01:37 PM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York
074°W00'37"
40°N42'26"


Great Mutation (Earth) 1802
17 Jul 1802
5:52:26 PM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York


Great Conjunction 2000
28 May 2000
11:07:39 AM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York


Great Malefic 1976
12 May 1976
9:51:13 AM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York


and then
Great Malefic 2004
25 May 2004
1:20 AM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York
....is now the operating Malefic Chart until....


Great Malefic 2034
26 Jun 2034
5:33:42 PM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York
will become operative....


2015 Aries Ingress
20 Mar 2015
6:45:10 PM
+4:56:02
Federal Hall, New York


....Insert Your Natal Chart Here.....


That is the place of a natal chart in the traditional hierarchy of charts.

Note: Relocate the chart(s) to your country

and for maximum accuracy,

use the "foundation point"

eg: Romania = Alba Iulia, not Bucharesti
Japan = Kyoto, not Tokyo
Spain = Toledo, not Madrid
and so on





List those places



Individual survivors natal charts if studied
would provide those answers

On the contrary
Mundane astrology is testable
as you are aware


JA, this is making less and less sense. The NYC Federal Building? C'mon. You haven't addressed most of my points. Providing me a laundry list does exactly what? In the case of a mass death event, you have no way of verifying any engagement with the victims' individual horoscopes, hierarchy or not.

All kinds of major conjunctions have come and gone with no ill effects on massive numbers of people.

Yet notwithstanding, theoretically some astrologer or other could have concocted death predictions for victims prior to their deaths. But these forecasts would have been completely erroneous, unless the astrologer could equally have forecast that the victims' own charts would be scrapped by some bigger disaster or other.

Predictive mundane astrology is notoriously difficult to do accurately. Just ask our resident expert, Unique_Astrology. Or look at all those astrologers who wondered why they missed The Big Event. Like C. E. O. Carter failing to predict WWII, and traditional astrologers failing to predict the massive Lisbon earthquake of 1755.

One thing that Steve Judd said in his video, with which I agree, is that some people are psychic, although there aren't too many of them around. A psychic may use some divination tool like astrology or palmistry as an aid to make an accurate mundane prediction, and then the credulous attribute the accuracy of their predictions to the divination tool itself. Unfortunately, a lot of the claims of prescience turn out to be bogus: the Jeane Dixon effect.

And most astrologers aren't exactly William Lilly. What percentage of mistakes in death prediction are acceptable, when we are likely dealing with a highly vulnerable, emotional human being?

And please don't give us that old saying that medical doctors make mistakes in predicting length of life. Doctors will generally give a range of times to a terminally ill patient, based on the literature, their prior experience, and their knowledge of the patient's condition. To say that, "Hey, docs make mistakes so it's fine for astrologers to predict death and make mistakes," is the most cynical kind of "two wrongs make a right" argument.
 

waybread

Well-known member
This is disingenuous. You ask traditional astrologers to read charts so that we 'might change your mind' about things like outer planets, about which your mind is firmly made up.

I'd like to remind you that no member of this forum is required to read charts on this forum. That someone chooses not to read charts here bears no relation to their astrological competence.



I take it you have been in personal communication with the OP and he or she told you they will never come back because several people posted that death can be predicted astrologically?

If not, then you're leaping to an unfounded conclusion.

Oddity, you have an unfortunate propensity that I have marked in your previous "debates" with me, to assert incorrect derogatory things about me as though they were correct. Please stop doing this.

Are you implying that your mind is completely open and flexible on all astrological matters?

Oddity, I believe that you stated on that Pluto thread that reading a chart (like Marie Curie's) using traditional methods was too time consuming to do it for that thread. But my memory might be faulty on this. Certainly there were other participants on that thread (like JA here) whom you readily might have convinced. I would have been wowed if you had shown Curie's specific career using only traditional planets.

The OP speaks for itself. S/he stands at just the one post. As of this post, 9thhouse's last activity on this forum was Nov. 3. Hopefully s/he will come back.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
The OP had better steer clear of doctors then
and avoid reading newspapers, magazines and internet media as well
avoid watching tv
and avoid watching any documentaries or films on asteroids colliding with planet earth
because all routinely predict death :smile:

for example:
death from substance abuse
death from overweight
death from smoking related diseases
death from traffic accidents
and so on and so forth


JA, this is another complete non sequitur. We could also term it a "slippery slope" type of argument, none of which is justified by the OP. S/he indicated consternation at astrological death prediction only. Full stop.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
JA, this is making less and less sense. The NYC Federal Building? C'mon.
On the contrary WB :smile:
you are aware that a Mundane chart must have a location
NYC Federal Building is simply one possible location


You seem to have skimmed over my Note: Relocate the chart(s) to your country

and for maximum accuracy,

use the "foundation point"

eg: Romania = Alba Iulia, not Bucharesti
Japan = Kyoto, not Tokyo
Spain = Toledo, not Madrid
and so on
You haven't addressed most of my points.
Providing me a laundry list does exactly what?
In the case of a mass death event, you have no way of verifying any engagement with the victims' individual horoscopes, hierarchy or not.
All of your points are addressed:

You asked for an hierarchy
I provided an hierarchy

I also clearly stated that:
SURVIVORS of mass deaths CAN verify their individual horoscopes engagement with the illustrated hierarchy

All kinds of major conjunctions have come and gone with no ill effects on massive numbers of people.

And?

Yet notwithstanding, theoretically some astrologer or other could have concocted death predictions for victims prior to their deaths.
But these forecasts would have been completely erroneous,
unless the astrologer could equally have forecast that the victims' own charts would be scrapped by some bigger disaster or other.

Predictive mundane astrology is notoriously difficult to do accurately.
Just ask our resident expert, Unique_Astrology.

Unique_Astrology is by the way, a Sidereal astrologer

A "resident expert" is not the sole expert available
Anyone capable of a simple online search
finds Mundane astrological predictions easily - check it out

Or look at all those astrologers who wondered why they missed The Big Event.
Like C. E. O. Carter failing to predict WWII,
and traditional astrologers failing to predict the massive Lisbon earthquake of 1755.

One non-traditional astrologer failing to predict WWII is insignificant

Lisbon earthquake of 1755 is one event over thousands of years


One thing that Steve Judd said in his video, with which I agree,
is that some people are psychic, although there aren't too many of them around.

A psychic may use some divination tool like astrology
or palmistry as an aid to make an accurate mundane prediction,
and then the credulous attribute the accuracy of their predictions to the divination tool itself.

Few "psychics" use astrology
"psychics" use "psychic" means

Unless the inference is that astrologers = "psychics"

Unfortunately, a lot of the claims of prescience turn out to be bogus: the Jeane Dixon effect.

And most astrologers aren't exactly William Lilly.
What percentage of mistakes in death prediction are acceptable,
when we are likely dealing with a highly vulnerable, emotional human being?

What percentage of mistakes in doctors death prediction are acceptable?
And please don't give us that old saying that medical doctors make mistakes in predicting length of life.

Doctors make mistakes predicting length of life
and many a newborn has survived "certain death within hours"
much to the consternation of doctors

for example:
BABIES WHO SURVIVED ABORTION AND ARE NOW ADULTS
http://healthimpactnews.com/2015/ba...re-now-adults-time-for-our-voice-to-be-heard/
Doctors will generally give a range of times to a terminally ill patient, based on the literature,
their prior experience, and their knowledge of the patient's condition.
To say that, "Hey, docs make mistakes so it's fine for astrologers to predict death and make mistakes,"
is the most cynical kind of "two wrongs make a right" argument.
not at all

astrology is able to predict times when a client is advised to take extra care
nothing wrong with that
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
JA, this is another complete non sequitur.
We could also term it a "slippery slope" type of argument, none of which is justified by the OP.
S/he indicated consternation at astrological death prediction only. Full stop.
WB The OP clearly fears that the body continually changes from birth until death
but

One must accept that :smile:


Buddha said rich or poor, young or old, human or animal
no being in this world can maintain itself in any one state for long
everything experiences change and estrangement.

This is a fact of life that we can do nothing to remedy.
Death is unsurprisingly routinely predictable
The fact that the OP fears that fact
is their responsibility
 

Marinka

Well-known member
Yes, astrology alone can identify times that could mean death or some bodily harm. It is not easy to do (my method) and would require using transits along with solar arcs and progressions to look at each year and identify periods when there is stress on natal planets. There can be multiple times during a person's life when they come close evidenced by many planets under stress but still continue on the path of life. So while it can be very accurate, it is not 100% as there can always be some factor that is not taken into account. With this, I tend to use probabilities if discussing issues related to this

The closest results for timing a "passing" is when the person is already sick with an illness like cancer and with that, timing could be very close (days). If a person has been well but has a stroke, the time period can be narrowed to a matter of weeks. The same can be said when a person is diagnosed with cancer - you can usually see some evidence of mounting attack on the body in the transits on the natal planets but not easy to say (but it is possible) whether the 1st occurrence will result in death or whether there will be a remission.

With any of these interpretations, it is a step-by-step approach. You can see the beginning of the illness but, does that correspond with the end also. The way that I approach this is that it is a path and there are times that you are more likely to step off the path.

In the matter of parents, the charts of children can hold many clues to the timing and the same hold true with the parents of children that have been lost.
 

junoisuppose

Well-known member
I thought that I made it clear in my above posts that the pluto/moon hits were only part of the overall combination of planetary aspects present when a relative passes, and will repeat that each chart has an individual flavor so most people won't experience the same manifestation that I have.

My mother predicted my grandfather's death by looking at her own progressions, her mother's progressions and my progressions. I don't know the details as I was only 13 at the time, but she said that there wasn't much of a clear indication in his chart just in the charts of people around him.

As I said earlier in this thread the 8th house and pluto do have other meanings besides death, but we can't forget that death is among their meanings and that is sometimes what they signify, to deny this is just to push death under the carpet.

Currently I have progressed moon in scorpio. When progressed moon went over my natal uranus (scorpio) transiting uranus was exactly conjunct the cusp of my 8th house (14 degrees Aries). I saw this coming up and was a little wary, the day came and went and nothing happened... 2 days later I read on Facebook that my cousin's wife had a stroke 2 days earlier (when the aspects were exact) and had passed away after 2 days unconscious. The family hadn't told us because they didn't want to worry my father who is ill. She wasn't a very close relative, but she had looked after me sometimes and she was an older female in my life, so represented by the moon, & the unexpected nature of it fits with uranus.

Another story - my progressed moon was going through Scorpio, at the same time my solar arc pluto is also going through Scorpio. I could see the conjunction coming up, and yes I was quite literally freaking out about it. However when the day came it was not my mother who passed away, it was instead the mother of a friend (Cancer rules my 11th house), a lady who had looked after me and guided me as a child, who passed away, and again I read about it on Facebook.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
The OP speaks for itself. S/he stands at just the one post.
As of this post, 9thhouse's last activity on this forum was Nov. 3.
Hopefully s/he will come back.
The OP asked for opinions on whether "astrology alone can predict death"
the fact is
death is predictable by means other than astrology
:smile:
For example
common sense informs us that
as any individual person ages
that persons inevitable death obviously approaches closer
and it is simply 'a matter of time'


The OP has the option to read this thread without even logging in
and in that event
OP activity would not register
 

muchacho

Well-known member
I was interested into astrology up until now when I learned that astrology could possibly predict death. Of course this thought is terrifying. I deleted my own natal chart I filled out online because I didn't even want to find out if calculating death was actually true. :crying:

Has this been disproven? Do we really have free will? I don't know much about astrology and was just starting to learn but feel too uncomfortable about this
Horary maybe. Natal chart, I don't think so.
 

waybread

Well-known member
JA, I know that you will have the last word regardless of what I post, so this rebuttal may be my last one on this thread for you. You have not addressed most of my points, and I have neither the time nor the interest to stimulate in your passionate promotion of death prediction in astrology, which apparently is primarily aggravated by my opposition to it.

You know that I am aware that mundane astrology generally relies on a location. Some mundane questions are trickier, however, in having multiple locations involved. (But did you know that?) I asked you to work out an example of where individual death signatures can be demonstrated to correlated in some hierarchical fashion with a natural or cultural disaster. You have not demonstrated how your Federal Hall examples work heirarchically into an actual example. Maybe you could relocate them yourself, and show how this applies in actual practice.

The problem with natural disaster prediction is that one can strike a very small area and leave adjacent areas untouched, even though their planetary positions are virtually identical. The Haiti earthquake is a prime example.

Your optimism about the efficacy of mundane predictions is staggering. Astrologers are still searching for the clues to such basics as predicting election outcomes, as well as natural disasters with locational accuracy. You might want to read the past few years on the mundane board at Astrodienst. But since you do not do much research in mundane astrology, perhaps this is an easy mistaken assumption to make. And are you saying that mundane predictions work only in tropical astrology?

You seem to be unaware of senior astrologer C. E. O. Carter's life's work in mundane astrology. But did traditional astrologers accurately predict WW II? We could move onto other disasters throughout history that traditional astrologers failed to predict, while falsely looking to mega-conjunctions and comets for upcoming disasters that never happened. This kind of inaccuracy was one of the major reasons for traditional astrology's demise, incidentally. Its practitioners claimed a predictive accuracy that they just couldn't deliver.

This isn't a thread about medical doctors, the last I checked. In the cases of my own family members' deaths from cancer and my son's best friend's recent death, their doctors' predictions were accurate. Funny how astrologers never wish to consider doctors' success rate.

But again, are you implying that "two wrongs make a right"? It would seem so.

What I wrote was that I believe that some astrologers are psychic.

I think it's fine for astrologers to recommend times for "extra care." That is not a death prediction.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
JA, I know that you will have the last word regardless of what I post, so this rebuttal may be my last one on this thread for you. You have not addressed most of my points, and I have neither the time nor the interest to stimulate in your passionate promotion of death prediction in astrology, which apparently is primarily aggravated by my opposition to it.

You know that I am aware that mundane astrology generally relies on a location. Some mundane questions are trickier, however, in having multiple locations involved. (But did you know that?) I asked you to work out an example of where individual death signatures can be demonstrated to correlated in some hierarchical fashion with a natural or cultural disaster. You have not demonstrated how your Federal Hall examples work heirarchically into an actual example. Maybe you could relocate them yourself, and show how this applies in actual practice.

The problem with natural disaster prediction is that one can strike a very small area and leave adjacent areas untouched, even though their planetary positions are virtually identical. The Haiti earthquake is a prime example.

Your optimism about the efficacy of mundane predictions is staggering. Astrologers are still searching for the clues to such basics as predicting election outcomes, as well as natural disasters with locational accuracy. You might want to read the past few years on the mundane board at Astrodienst. But since you do not do much research in mundane astrology, perhaps this is an easy mistaken assumption to make. And are you saying that mundane predictions work only in tropical astrology?

You seem to be unaware of senior astrologer C. E. O. Carter's life's work in mundane astrology. But did traditional astrologers accurately predict WW II? We could move onto other disasters throughout history that traditional astrologers failed to predict, while falsely looking to mega-conjunctions and comets for upcoming disasters that never happened. This kind of inaccuracy was one of the major reasons for traditional astrology's demise, incidentally. Its practitioners claimed a predictive accuracy that they just couldn't deliver.

This isn't a thread about medical doctors, the last I checked. In the cases of my own family members' deaths from cancer and my son's best friend's recent death, their doctors' predictions were accurate. Funny how astrologers never wish to consider doctors' success rate.

But again, are you implying that "two wrongs make a right"? It would seem so.

What I wrote was that I believe that some astrologers are psychic.

I think it's fine for astrologers to recommend times for "extra care." That is not a death prediction.
WB, there's plenty on mundane time lords and predictive techniques, Saturn-Jupiter conjunctions,
and annual ingresses if you are interested
http://www.bendykes.com/aw2.php :smile:

Many texts have been translated directly from Arabic,
and authors include Masha'allah, Abu Ma'shar, Sahl, 'Umar al-Tabari and Kankah, al-Qabisi,
and al-Rijal (Haly Abenragel).
 

Oddity

Well-known member
How many traditional astrologers were practising during Carter's era? Maybe there were a few doing astrology á la Morin, because his popularity never quite died out on the continent, but I'm willing to bet **** few of even those folks were doing mundane.

There did seem to be one French astrologer who successfully predicted World War II, though I don't know what methods he was using - and his article was turned down by an astrological magazine because they deemed it too depressing. I think you can find the story at skyscript, it's been a long time since I read it, so I don't recall the precise details.

I know you think we 'trads' think that all ancient and medieval astrological techniques are tried, tested, and true, but that is emphatically not the case.

Bear in mind that in ancient and medieval times there was a lot of good predictive mundane (astrology's association with radical politics, especially during the English Civil War, was a big, big part of its death knell). But the reason for the good is that those guys were working for the royals, it was their full-time job to do this, it wasn't something they moonlighted at.

Some of the methods we've translated work well. More of them may work, but we've hardly done in-depth testing of all of them. The truth of the matter is that mundane astrology is at the very top of the astrological hierarchy, devillishly difficult to practise because it requires many charts, and while we know some things that work well, we simply do not know yet all of what works most efficaciously. That's going to take time.

I've managed to make a total of one mundane prediction, and it wasn't that big and only required five charts (an attempted train bombing in my city). Mundane is hard work and requires more energy than I usually have. I don't do a lot of it. Even most healthy astrologers don't do a lot of it. If you want to give good predictions (and I'm going to assume that most responsible astrologers, whether they be traditional, modern, or somewhere in between, don't want to go off half-cocked if they're predicting events with wide-spread consequences), it takes a lot of study. A lot. And since astrology seldom pays the bills, we don't see as much mundane as we'd like to. I do believe it will come, but I don't think we're there yet.

Sue Ward did an excellent series on economics based on the Great Conjunction, which has been proving out pretty accurately, but I don't believe it's posted in any non-copyrighted material.

Even Charles Carter, a modern I have quite a bit of respect for because he did real research, found himself a bit flummoxed over things like deaths in mass disasters.

Myself, I tend to agree with ibn Ezra's hierarchy of charts, which makes logical sense, at the very least. I've also seen some smaller studies in the modern day (I would hate to say it's iron-clad, because I'd like to see a few hundred more cases) that an angular Jupiter, in 10 especially, seems to be a mark of survivors of mass disaster. Obviously that wouldn't account for everyone, but again - it's one thing that would make sense.

As for the original topic, can astrology predict death? Yes, it can, ancient and medieval astrology was purpose-built as a form of divination, in other words, understanding the will of God or the Gods, by seeing into the future.

That in no way implies that astrology is easy, or that prediction is easy. It's not. But it's part of the job description. Irresponsible predictions of death are NOT part of the job description, not for astrologers, or doctors, or anybody else.

Modern astrology, on the other hand, was purpose-built to do character analysis, and therefore is not in a great position to predict anything.

So it's all going to depend on what kind of astrology you choose to practise.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Sorry, JA-- I had to run out for a bit before my previous post was completed. I knew you'd be here, though, when I returned. ;)

I just wanted to add re: your statement that

the OP's apparent fear of death
is not the responsibility of members of this forum

The OP expressed no fear of death per se. One could infer considerable anxiety about astrologers' claim to predict death, however.

But it is precisely this kind of callous statement that concerns me about a bunch of rank amateurs engaging in death prediction.

Believe me, I've done many chart readings for people who are sick with worry about their own or a family member's future in some way. If you want to chart-read for people who are feeling frightened or vulnerable, you don't tell them that their troubled emotional state is not your problem, and then dish out a big helping of bad news. You don't lie to such people if you don't think astrology will magically make their concerns go away. You do approach them with as much sensitivity as you can muster.

WB, there's plenty on mundane time lords and predictive techniques, Saturn-Jupiter conjunctions,
and annual ingresses if you are interested
http://www.bendykes.com/aw2.php :smile:

Many texts have been translated directly from Arabic,
and authors include Masha'allah, Abu Ma'shar, Sahl, 'Umar al-Tabari and Kankah, al-Qabisi,
and al-Rijal (Haly Abenragel).

JA, you know I know all of this already. So why bother to post it? I want to see you show us how it's done, indicating how a hierarchical disaster chart correlates with individual death signatures.

Given that you've tried as hard as you could to confirm the OPer's worst concerns about astrology, it's not surprising that she hasn't posted up to now.
 
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