Confused about chart shape: is it bundle, bucket, bowl?
- Thread starter nepredil696
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nepredil696
Well-known member
It makes a difference to me, just wanted to get another opinion about the shape, which will hopefully lessen the confusion
miquar
Well-known member
Hi. If you just use the planets, the Sun, the Moon and Pluto, then its probably closer to a bowl than anything else. But because there is such a large gap between Mars and Jupiter, the bowl shape does not coincide with the emphasis on the lower hemisphere. I don't think its worth giving much weight to shaping when interpreting this chart. Having said that, when looking at Chiron's role in this chart, it might be worth considering the fact that it puts a handle on that bowl and makes it a bucket. I don't know if you'll find an interpretation of Chiron as a bucket handle - and even if you do, whether it would be reliable - but you could still look at general interpretations of bucket handles as focal planets, and then apply this to Chiron in this chart.
nepredil696
Well-known member
Thank you! That really helps….even I wasn't sure if Chiron could be included in the shape interpretation, but its a good point to check it out.
Cheers mate
Cheers mate
miquar
Well-known member
No problem. Its difficult to know where to draw the line when deciding what to include as a valid factor in something like a chart shape or a configuration such as a grand trine. Perhaps we have to think of shapings and configurations which depend on asteroids as 'lesser' features than those that are comprised of the Sun, Moon, planets and Pluto.
But just as Pluto seems to be a special Keiper belt object, astrologically speaking, so Chiron seems to be a special asteroid (or whatever it is!). It may have something to do with orbits. Chiron comes inside Saturn's orbit but moves outside Uranus' orbit. And Pluto comes inside Neptune's orbit.
But just as Pluto seems to be a special Keiper belt object, astrologically speaking, so Chiron seems to be a special asteroid (or whatever it is!). It may have something to do with orbits. Chiron comes inside Saturn's orbit but moves outside Uranus' orbit. And Pluto comes inside Neptune's orbit.
Flapjacks
Well-known member
It looks like you were born within a day, perhaps even 12 hours, of one of my good friends.
To me your chart looks like a locomotive, but teetering on a bowl. I don't consider chiron for the shape.
nepredil696
Well-known member
Wow really?…Cool…I wonder how similar or dissimilar we are 
Locomotive shape never occurred to me…thats interesting….I remember reading somewhere that this is the shape of asymetrical charts and that two planets will stand out….my chart doesn't look too asymmetrical though….it does seem more bowl shaped although Jupiter stands out like a sore thumb…..so I thought maybe bucket……Jupiter messes up my chart shape
Locomotive shape never occurred to me…thats interesting….I remember reading somewhere that this is the shape of asymetrical charts and that two planets will stand out….my chart doesn't look too asymmetrical though….it does seem more bowl shaped although Jupiter stands out like a sore thumb…..so I thought maybe bucket……Jupiter messes up my chart shape
Flapjacks
Well-known member
Wow really?…Cool…I wonder how similar or dissimilar we are
Locomotive shape never occurred to me…thats interesting….I remember reading somewhere that this is the shape of asymetrical charts and that two planets will stand out….my chart doesn't look too asymmetrical though….it does seem more bowl shaped although Jupiter stands out like a sore thumb…..so I thought maybe bucket……Jupiter messes up my chart shape
Bowl is technically 180 degrees, and your opposition with Jupiter and your Sun can fit into that category, but because of the distance between Jupiter and the other planets, it also makes me think of a locomotive pattern, personally. I don't see bucket, though, or a bundle at all. Does a bowl seem to describe you?
miquar
Well-known member
It would be a bundle only if Jupiter was within the Sun and Mars, and if Chiron isn't counted. Because of the distance between Jupiter and Mars, its a bit like a fan (which is a bundle with a handle, just as a bucket is a bowl with a handle). But a prefect fan should have the handle opposite the midpoint of the bundle.
Because Chiron makes a wide t square which involves the Sun and Jupiter, and because the other planets are all on the opposite side of the Sun Jupiter opposition, I think there is a good case for considering this chart a bowl in traditional terms, with a handle if one extends the pantheon to include Chiron.
The half of the chart that the bowl occurs in is from the 3rd to the 9th houses. This symbolises the journey from understanding one's relationship to the rest of the world as a distinct individual, to understanding one's relationship to the rest of the world as an inseparable part of some greater whole. Thus the transition from one way of understanding life to another, through a process of opening oneself to something greater than the self. Chiron provides a balance to this being in the house which symbolises the kind of understanding from which a renewed sense of self can emerge.
Because Chiron makes a wide t square which involves the Sun and Jupiter, and because the other planets are all on the opposite side of the Sun Jupiter opposition, I think there is a good case for considering this chart a bowl in traditional terms, with a handle if one extends the pantheon to include Chiron.
The half of the chart that the bowl occurs in is from the 3rd to the 9th houses. This symbolises the journey from understanding one's relationship to the rest of the world as a distinct individual, to understanding one's relationship to the rest of the world as an inseparable part of some greater whole. Thus the transition from one way of understanding life to another, through a process of opening oneself to something greater than the self. Chiron provides a balance to this being in the house which symbolises the kind of understanding from which a renewed sense of self can emerge.
nepredil696
Well-known member
You guys are awesome! thanks for the explanation….I am leaning towards a bowl pattern, the bowl interpretation feel more at home to me….also Jupiter is in opposition with Sun/Merc…apparently this forms something called a 'rim opposition'….plus my chart has a T-square (Sun/Mer-Ur-Ju). So having a rim opposition and a T-square strengthen's a bowl pattern…..then again Chiron does have a strong influence in my chart…..so I don't think it can be completely ignored…..guess my chart shape is not as clear cut, which I think is true for a lotta people's charts…….weelll that's life for you, not always black n white 
You guys are awesome! thanks for the explanation….I am leaning towards a bowl pattern, the bowl interpretation feel more at home to me….also Jupiter is in opposition with Sun/Merc…apparently this forms something called a 'rim opposition'….plus my chart has a T-square (Sun/Mer-Ur-Ju). So having a rim opposition and a T-square strengthen's a bowl pattern…..then again Chiron does have a strong influence in my chart…..so I don't think it can be completely ignored…..guess my chart shape is not as clear cut, which I think is true for a lotta people's charts…….weelll that's life for you, not always black n white
I was just about to say it looks like a bowl patterned chart too. I have a bowl chart, with Venus leading, with all my planets almost completely contained at the bottom of my chart (with the exception of my singleton Saturn which just counts as being in the top of the chart as it's exactly conjunct the DC). I honestly don't think Chiron counts, to be honest... I think chart shapes like the bowl/bundle are more evident when they're kept within a certain hemisphere.