hour ruler

That is quite mysterious. It is as if you have to ask a question at a specific time. It is not just when the question comes to mind as I have been taught. Or the Universe is saying since you didn't ask it at the right time its not fit to be answered or nana poo-poo we aren't answering you

Well so....this is quite odd really...I will explore this I guess but I might be on the side of Dr. Farr on this one....use it as another indicator.

gemini59 said:

Or the Universe is saying since you didn't ask it at the right time its not fit to be answered or nana poo-poo we aren't answering you.

Click to expand...

I share your frustration. I am beyond frustrated with horary at this point. If you go by most horary charts, there is no reason to hope.

gemini59 said:

But what I am asking is if Sagitarius is rising at 25 and jupiter is in taurus the hour ruler is venus is that an indication that the chart is radical. Or for the chart to be radical the ascendant would need to be Taurus, Cancer, Libra, Scorpio, Pisces or the PH would need to be Sun, mars, or jupiter?

So for some reason when I asked the question if was not correct corrallary then it is not fit to read? Hmm ...well...

Click to expand...

Remember, I do not use the PH to determine whether or not the horary chart is radical.

HOWEVER, lets look at the above circumstances as if we were looking for PH agreement:
-using the allocation of PH to element of -or planetary ruler of -the rising sign ONLY (the way it was done by oldtime horarists like Bonatti) then, no there is no PH agreement here because:
a) Venus, the PH, is of Water element and the rising sign, Sagittarius is of Fire element.
and
b) Venus, the PH, is NOT ruler of the rising sign, Sagittarius

For our friends who want to use agreement of the PH with the rising sign in horary, really this is the simplest way to do it.

Now, lets look at this example using the triplicity addendum method which I described in my earlier post in this thread:
-the planet of the PH must be posited in a sign which is of the same elemental triplicity as the ascending sign: for example, suppose Venus is the PH, and that Venus happens to be posited in Aries: Sagittarius, a Fire sign like Aries, rises: therefore agreement (by the triplicity method) between the PH and the rising sign exists
-but in the example posted, the ruler of the rising sign, Jupter, is posited in the Earth sign of Taurus, and we don't know where the PH planet, Venus, is posited (from the information given) So, by this triplicity method, we don't know whether or not the chart is in agreement with the PH.

For our friends who want to use PH/ascending sign agreement in horary, I suggest forgetting about this triplicity method, because it can get too complicated and confusing.

sorry to go back a bit but

if 25 sag is on the asc, its ruled by jupiter Yes?
isnt jupiter the hr ruler?

if not
do you say jupiter is in taurus which is ruled by venus
so venus is the hr ruler then?


cause ive been saying if sag is the asc then jupiter is the hr ruler

DiDi said:

sorry to go back a bit but

if 25 sag is on the asc, its ruled by jupiter Yes?
isnt jupiter the hr ruler?

if not
do you say jupiter is in taurus which is ruled by venus
so venus is the hr ruler then?


cause ive been saying if sag is the asc then jupiter is the hr ruler

Click to expand...

Hour ruler is different concept. Download ChronosXP 4.1 to get its value. It (user interface) will look as above.

DiDi said:

sorry to go back a bit but

if 25 sag is on the asc, its ruled by jupiter Yes?
isnt jupiter the hr ruler?

if not
do you say jupiter is in taurus which is ruled by venus
so venus is the hr ruler then?


cause ive been saying if sag is the asc then jupiter is the hr ruler

Click to expand...

No, the ruler of the ascending sign is not necessarily the hour ruler (PH planet) The PH must be determined by time calculation (as I described in an earlier post in this thread) Also, no, the planetary dispositor of the lord of the ascending sign is not necessarily the hour ruler (PH) either-for example, Jupiter ruler of ascending sign Sagittarius being posited in Taurus, disposited by Venus, does NOT necessarily make Venus the hour ruler of the chart: again, the hour ruler (PH) of the chart must be determined by seperate time calculations which have nothing to do with the horary chart itself, but rather is based on the PH ruling at the TIME OF DAY (or night) the question was asked. The run of the PH's begins at sunrise (in the original method) or (in the Arabic method which is used 99% of the time for the past 1000 years in PH calculation) at sunrise and again at sunset, and follows the Chaldean order, and the order of the planetary rulers of the days of the week (all of these considerations are automatically made by the various PH calculators free on the internet*)

*...but read my reservations about these, since all are based on civil time rather than on the actual Sun/Cosmic time, which can vary from the civil, sometimes by as much as 15 minutes, depending upon the day of the year.

Iam so sorry guys

I got that all wrong what i asked you, I have the flu today and I should have waited to ask you correctly.

yes I know the asc ruler is not allways the hr ruler sorry

say 25 sag is the asc and jupiter rules that ( ok thats just the asc ruler)
now i look up my hr ruler giude and it says... say venus is the hr ruler

do i look at what is water fire earth and air
or do i look at that jupiter is in taurus ruled by venus so the asc ruler and the hr ruler is one?


again so sorry i feel ill and sorry to mix you up like that.


dhundhun
thankyou for your help i do have a web site for a hr ruler chart.

No need to apologize-a lot of this stuff can make my head spin, even after decades of using and studying it!

Here is my suggestion, DiDi:
-forget the complex triplicty addenda
-and only look at whether the hour ruler (PH) is the same element (air, earth, fire, water) as the asceneding sign OR if the hour ruler is the same as the ruling planet of the ascending sign.

This will give clear-cut hour ruler (PH) indications.

Well see we are discovering together, DiDi. Evidently there is this whole grid of planetary hour rulers ....search planetary hour calculator to be calculated at your locale. ....

Now about this above thing Dr Farr...venus was in Gemini as it was a recent question and its triplicity was saturn and mercury so and therefore it was not radical. Well heck...it looked good too

I am now a little confused. I use astrowin and got a different planetary hour then the on line calculator for a chart. ...hmmm...

So as an example on another chart I ran Virgo is rising with the hour ruler as the sun.
AT first glance Virgo (mercury ruler ) and sun would not match so much but they are both in cancer.
Does this mean the chart is radical? They share the same ruler and trip?

Just trying some things out here.

Thanks Dr farr, that was a simple idea for me to follow.

No wonder not many of use were following this rule, its a bit harder than it first looks

I will look to see if its in the same element first.

im interested in seeing what gemini59 example here is.

I understand triplicity, im guessing that its ok if its in the same element thou.

Well see we are discovering together, DiDi

Click to expand...

yes cassandra its very helpfull that you guys are to, as it helps us others that are no so easily to pick things up.

gemini59 said:

So as an example on another chart I ran Virgo is rising with the hour ruler as the sun.
AT first glance Virgo (mercury ruler ) and sun would not match so much but they are both in cancer.
Does this mean the chart is radical? They share the same ruler and trip?

Just trying some things out here.

Click to expand...

The planet of the PH is the Sun
Sun is posited in Cancer, a Water sign
Virgo, the rising sign, is an Earth sign
Therefore there is no agreement between the PH Sun and the ascending sign of Virgo (Earth)

...say instead the planet of the PH, the Sun, had been posited in Taurus;
Virgo, like Taurus, is an Earth sign
Therefore by the more complex triplicty addendum method I described in an earlier post, there would be agreement between the PH and the rising sign of Virgo, because the planet of the PH (the Sun) is in an Earth sign and the rising sign (Virgo) is also an Earth sign...

Planatory hour works in conjunction with day. So suppose, planatory hour is Sun and day is Saturday, the effect is Saturn (day) + Sun (hour) + ASC and other factors of chart.

Good luck with PH.

confusing.....
so some astrologers look at planetary hours for horary, some don't.
of the ones that do, some don't use elemental affinity.

fushiafairy said:

confusing.....
so some astrologers look at planetary hours for horary, some don't.
of the ones that do, some don't use elemental affinity.

Click to expand...

Yes-on your first point (some look at the PH in horary, others don't; I am one of the latter-although I consider PH VERY important in other astrological applications; Anthony Louis is another-he regards the PH as "rather silly"-his words, and of course I cannot agree with Louis in this opinion)

No, to your second point: everyone who uses PH whether in horary or elsewhere, ALWAYS use the elemental affinity-just that some have extended this elemental affinity to (what I consider to be) rather convoluted methods of derivation (ie, the triplicty method which I outlined in an earlier post in this thread)

thanks Dr. Farr.

I have a chart posted on a thread with scorpio rising. The planetary hour is moon. That would be radical right? But a regular poster on the horary threads said it wouldn't be. I had that happen with another another chart too where the ascendant was sagittarius and the planetary hour ruler was mars. A different poster said it was not radical. That is why I thought some did not look at elements.

NOt sure what I think. I don't have enough charts to have developed my own definite practice.