Denial of Marriage

boom · Jul 30, 2012

Someone tell me something positive to come out of this. I'm new at this and trying my best to figure it all out. I've tried to decipher my chart using different methods and am deeply saddened by what I find.

Denial of Marriage:

Vedic Astrology:
- Venus and ruler of 7th house severely debilitated -> Mercury, Venus and Mars all combust in 6th house
- Venus placed in Leo and aspected by both Sun and Moon
- Jupiter - singleton, stationary and retrograde

Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method): http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49297
- Venus is impeded (combust, joined with malefics [Sun/Mars]); triplicity lords are impeded (Jupiter: Stationary; retrograde; Sun: 6th house; Mars: combust 6th house)
- Venus and the lords are occidental and are between the AC and IC (Jupiter), between DC and MC (Saturn) and in the 2nd quarter of the Moon (Sun)

Delineation of Marriage (Hellenistic Method): http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49434
-lords of triplicity of Venus in a bad sign (Jupiter - stationary, retrograde; Saturn-unaspected, retrograde, 10th house - sorrows; Sun - sixth house)

Other stuff:
Part of Fortune squared by Leo stellium; ruler (Venus) is severely debilitated
Lilith (Cancer) in 5th (bad parent/can't have kids)
Pluto (Scorpio) in 7th (abusive relationships/power struggle)
Juno (Pisces) in 12th (first marriage could do me in)
I have no exalted planets!!

Me and my self-pitying tendencies need some comfort right now

beginner · Jul 31, 2012

In my views, these are the reasons
venus is strongly combust,
7th ruler mercury is combust too,
south node in 7th.

boom said:
Someone tell me something positive to come out of this. I'm new at this and trying my best to figure it all out. I've tried to decipher my chart using different methods and am deeply saddened by what I find.

Denial of Marriage:

waybread · Jul 31, 2012

I do modern astrology, and I don't see any problem. With Virgo on the cusp of your 7th house, I would look to the position of Mercury. OK, so it's in the 6th house but it is extremely well-aspected. You might look to meet Mr. Right at your job or a health/fitness centre. Mars and the sun are two planetary Mr. Right indicators, and they are also really well aspected. Lucky you!

The main feature of your chart seems to be a kite formation, pointing to your moon-Chiron in the third house of thought and communication. Also of siblings. Your big challenge in life would seem to be learning how to deal with hurt feelings.

I have sun conjunct Mars as well, and have been married most of my adult life. Twice.

boom · Jul 31, 2012

beginner said:
In my views, these are the reasons
venus is strongly combust,
7th ruler mercury is combust too,
south node in 7th.

the idea of never having a lifelong companion breaks my heart

Leos live for love.

Outside of squaring my Neptune (even that may be a bit wide), my North node doesn't have any actual aspect to any of my personal planets. I read that you'd have to look at the placement of the rulers of the nodes. If my North node is ruled by Mars and my South node is ruled by Venus, and Venus and Mars are both strongly debilitated in my chart (6th house, combust, conjunct), then what happens?

Alice McDermott · Jul 31, 2012

One of the reasons I discarded the various forms of 'traditional' astrology was that the rules just didn't apply to my clients. These people regularly had lives that the more ancient forms of astrology said wasn't possible. I live in the southern hemisphere so perhaps this is why as many of the strictures were based on dignities, debilities etc., which, as they are derived from the Northern hemisphere seasons, aren't appropriate in the Southern hemisphere.

However, I still have a number of clients born in the Northern Hemisphere and don't find these so called rules apply to their lives either!

In modern astrology you will certainly have a partner and as the significators are in the 6th house it is likely to be someone in public service. With Mars involved it could be the police or armed services; with Mercury and Venus involved it could be involving selling, beauty or beauty products, writing or art; with Leo and the Sun involved this person(s) could be prominent or attain prominence.

A likely time will be in 2015, when Secondary Progressed Venus moves to conjoin your Descendant. This is a classic combination for partnership and marriage.

You have your Vertex in the 7th house as well, so this would be a strong significator for marriage and partnership; any time a planet triggers this placement by progression, directions or major transits the relationship energy will be activated in your life. In 2013-2014 Solar Arc Vertex moves to sextile the ruler of your Descendant so this could also be a time when you meet someone important to you.

Right now you have Secondary Progressed Descendant conjunct natal and SP Pluto. This will bring plutonian people into your life and give plutonian experiences in relationships - these are rarely easy!

As an example of how inaccurate these old rules can be, I have the ruler of my Descendant exalted and in an excellent house, you would think this would give a pleasant marriage at the very least. I was married for 13 years and hated every minute of it! When I got divorced I decided I would never marry again and never have.

Neptune square your nodal axis can give some problems, so just be careful when transits activate this configuration.

Rather than just believing these ancient rules, created for a different time and vastly different culture(s) perhaps check them out for yourself - maybe check out the charts of famous people and people you know well. You should find that really these rules just aren't working, for example, look at all the famous people, politicians etc., who have planets in the 12th house! Their lives are rarely hidden away, quite the opposite, they are in the full glare of the public. In addition I have never found planets combust debilitated in any way in real life, for example, look at the chart of Noel Tyl (31st December 1936, 3.57 pm, West Chester, PA), it would be difficult to find a more famous astrologer and he has been famous in other areas as well, yet he has the ruler of his MC, Jupiter, in Capricorn combust the Sun in the 7th house. His Jupiter works very, very well for him and has taken him to every continent on Earth both physically and through his prolific published works.

Alice

Moog · Jul 31, 2012

Alice McDermott said:
As an example of how inaccurate these old rules can be, I have the ruler of my Descendant exalted and in an excellent house, you would think this would give a pleasant marriage at the very least. I was married for 13 years and hated every minute of it! When I got divorced I decided I would never marry again and never have.

Hey Alice, would you mind sharing your chart?

Vista · Jul 31, 2012

boom said:
Someone tell me something positive to come out of this. I'm new at this and trying my best to figure it all out. I've tried to decipher my chart using different methods and am deeply saddened by what I find.

Denial of Marriage:

Vedic Astrology:
- Venus and ruler of 7th house severely debilitated -> Mercury, Venus and Mars all combust in 6th house
- Venus placed in Leo and aspected by both Sun and Moon
- Jupiter - singleton, stationary and retrograde

Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method): http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49297
- Venus is impeded (combust, joined with malefics [Sun/Mars]); triplicity lords are impeded (Jupiter: Stationary; retrograde; Sun: 6th house; Mars: combust 6th house)
- Venus and the lords are occidental and are between the AC and IC (Jupiter), between DC and MC (Saturn) and in the 2nd quarter of the Moon (Sun)

Delineation of Marriage (Hellenistic Method): http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49434
-lords of triplicity of Venus in a bad sign (Jupiter - stationary, retrograde; Saturn-unaspected; Sun - sixth house)

Marriage Indicators in Horary: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36623
- I'm a woman with Sun with Mars/Venus AND Venus with Mars
- my Sun is not applying to Saturn

Other stuff:
Part of Fortune squared by Leo stellium; ruler (Venus) is severely debilitated
Lilith (Cancer) in 5th (bad parent/can't have kids)
Pluto (Scorpio) in 7th (abusive relationships/power struggle)
Juno (Pisces) in 12th (first marriage could do me in)

Me and my self-pitying tendencies need some comfort right now

It's not much but Transiting Saturn moving through your 7th will sextile your Mercury, Sun, Venus stellium and trine your Moon. Moon and Mercury rule your 5th and 7th houses. Not sure if T Jupiter gets to these planets at the same time, but you might meet someone as this is the final transit of T Saturn to these natal planets which is usually the strongest.

I feel your pain and I am quite a bit older than you are. My ruler of the 7th is in the 8th and square Uranus, it's also sextile Mercury and trine my ASC. Its depositor Jupiter in the 12th is opposing Uranus and Pluto, but also part of a natal Kite. The triplicity ruler Mars in the 6th is retrograde and unaspected and Saturn(ruler of my Sun and 7th House almuten ruler) is conjunct Mercury but square Neptune!! This certainly has described my relationships, fast starts and abrupt endings, deception and few relationships with years in-between each one. In my case, I am have never married. I's very depressing to me especially now that it's too late to have children. The ancient delienation seem to point to the reason why I never married but then again so does modern astrology.

dr. farr · Aug 1, 2012

I accept elements of both Traditional and Modernist astrology (and reject other elements of both)

For me, as an eclectic, and using whole sign houses:

-7th house is under Virgo
-its lord (Mercury) as well as benefic Venus and malefic Mars, are all absorbed by the Sun ("combust') which to me means that the SUN is significator for all of the planets it has absorbed
-therefore your defacto lord of the 7th house is the SUN (note: this view of the Sun and combustion is alchemical in nature and follows the teachings of hermeticists such as Paracelsus)
-relative to marriage specifically, I have found specific Lots of much more delineative value than generic house allocations; in this case the Woman's Lot of Marriage is the indicative element in this chart giving most information regarding marriage
-your WLOM (ascendant+saturn-venus) falls @ 22 Cancer, in the 5th whole sign house (indicating a romantic marriage-5th house), its dispositor and significator being the Moon
-Moon is in its house of joy (3rd whole sign house) and flows toward the WLOM, both quite + testimonies
-since the Sun is defacto lord of the 7th house and holds Venus within it (see above), the sextile of the Moon to the Sun (Moon as significator of the WLOM, Sun as defacto significator via absorption of the 7th house and Venus) is very + testimony for marriage.
-also note that Vesta (symbolic of hearth and home, and of the internal flame) is in the same sign as the WLOM (Cancer) and both have the same significator (the Moon)
...indications of difficulties with marriage?? :bandit:

Not in my book-rather quite the opposite! :biggrin:

(Note: Vesta is in the 5th whole sign house of fertile Cancer; Lilith is NOT in the 5th house, rather it is in the 6th house by whole sign; indications for having children are quite favorable in this chart)

waybread · Aug 1, 2012

Great reading, Alice! Just curious: how can you say for sure that boom will get married, vs. merely having a favourable time for that to happen?

boom, I wouldn't say that Leos "live for love". Leos live for other people's praise and admiration; as well as their own ability to express themselves with excellence in some way.

You have such a good-looking chart, with all of those trines and sextiles. Lucky you.

Alice McDermott · Aug 1, 2012

Hi Waybread

Marriage involves two people so whether or not Boom gets married when Secondary Progressed Venus conjoins her natal Descendant depends a great deal on the chart of her partner and their combined charts.

However, this, or SP Venus conjunct planets in the 7th house or ruler of the 7th house, is a classic configuration that turns up again and again when people meet those with whom they form partnerships and/or get married.

Alice

boom · Oct 8, 2012

Alice McDermott said:
One of the reasons I discarded the various forms of 'traditional' astrology was that the rules just didn't apply to my clients. These people regularly had lives that the more ancient forms of astrology said wasn't possible. I live in the southern hemisphere so perhaps this is why as many of the strictures were based on dignities, debilities etc., which, as they are derived from the Northern hemisphere seasons, aren't appropriate in the Southern hemisphere.

However, I still have a number of clients born in the Northern Hemisphere and don't find these so called rules apply to their lives either!

In modern astrology you will certainly have a partner and as the significators are in the 6th house it is likely to be someone in public service. With Mars involved it could be the police or armed services; with Mercury and Venus involved it could be involving selling, beauty or beauty products, writing or art; with Leo and the Sun involved this person(s) could be prominent or attain prominence.

A likely time will be in 2015, when Secondary Progressed Venus moves to conjoin your Descendant. This is a classic combination for partnership and marriage.

You have your Vertex in the 7th house as well, so this would be a strong significator for marriage and partnership; any time a planet triggers this placement by progression, directions or major transits the relationship energy will be activated in your life. In 2013-2014 Solar Arc Vertex moves to sextile the ruler of your Descendant so this could also be a time when you meet someone important to you.

Right now you have Secondary Progressed Descendant conjunct natal and SP Pluto. This will bring plutonian people into your life and give plutonian experiences in relationships - these are rarely easy!

As an example of how inaccurate these old rules can be, I have the ruler of my Descendant exalted and in an excellent house, you would think this would give a pleasant marriage at the very least. I was married for 13 years and hated every minute of it! When I got divorced I decided I would never marry again and never have.

Neptune square your nodal axis can give some problems, so just be careful when transits activate this configuration.

Rather than just believing these ancient rules, created for a different time and vastly different culture(s) perhaps check them out for yourself - maybe check out the charts of famous people and people you know well. You should find that really these rules just aren't working, for example, look at all the famous people, politicians etc., who have planets in the 12th house! Their lives are rarely hidden away, quite the opposite, they are in the full glare of the public. In addition I have never found planets combust debilitated in any way in real life, for example, look at the chart of Noel Tyl (31st December 1936, 3.57 pm, West Chester, PA), it would be difficult to find a more famous astrologer and he has been famous in other areas as well, yet he has the ruler of his MC, Jupiter, in Capricorn combust the Sun in the 7th house. His Jupiter works very, very well for him and has taken him to every continent on Earth both physically and through his prolific published works.

Alice

Thanks Alice for taking the time to respond to this thread. I'm just getting over another crush who's currently with another girl. I tend to have a lot of difficulty with intense crushes, does that have anything to do with " Secondary Progressed Descendant conjunct natal and SP Pluto." Or am I completely missing the boat? Sometimes, I feel like I'm constantly getting involved with guys that are clearly NOT available.

Where would you suspect I meet men? Most of my social circle revolves around work (6th house venus?) and it's constantly the same people.

Once again, thank you!

dr. farr said:
I accept elements of both Traditional and Modernist astrology (and reject other elements of both)

For me, as an eclectic, and using whole sign houses:

-7th house is under Virgo
-its lord (Mercury) as well as benefic Venus and malefic Mars, are all absorbed by the Sun ("combust') which to me means that the SUN is significator for all of the planets it has absorbed
-therefore your defacto lord of the 7th house is the SUN (note: this view of the Sun and combustion is alchemical in nature and follows the teachings of hermeticists such as Paracelsus)
-relative to marriage specifically, I have found specific Lots of much more delineative value than generic house allocations; in this case the Woman's Lot of Marriage is the indicative element in this chart giving most information regarding marriage
-your WLOM (ascendant+saturn-venus) falls @ 22 Cancer, in the 5th whole sign house (indicating a romantic marriage-5th house), its dispositor and significator being the Moon
-Moon is in its house of joy (3rd whole sign house) and flows toward the WLOM, both quite + testimonies
-since the Sun is defacto lord of the 7th house and holds Venus within it (see above), the sextile of the Moon to the Sun (Moon as significator of the WLOM, Sun as defacto significator via absorption of the 7th house and Venus) is very + testimony for marriage.
-also note that Vesta (symbolic of hearth and home, and of the internal flame) is in the same sign as the WLOM (Cancer) and both have the same significator (the Moon)
...indications of difficulties with marriage??
Not in my book-rather quite the opposite!

(Note: Vesta is in the 5th whole sign house of fertile Cancer; Lilith is NOT in the 5th house, rather it is in the 6th house by whole sign; indications for having children are quite favorable in this chart)

Thank you Dr. Farr for your positive interpretation. I just had a couple of questions:

1. You mention that you mix both traditional and modern elements of astrology. How do you typically interpret individuals with 6th house stelliums? Everything I read about the 6th house is pretty bad. In modern astrology, its about health and service. In traditional astrology, it mean I'm a slave and will remain of low status.

2. What is the difference between the Sun absorbing Mercury/Venus/Mars and the planets being combust?

3. Are Parts usually interpreted first by the ruler or the aspects made to a specific Part? For example, I make no aspects to my Part of Marriage, but I my entire stellium is square the Part of Fortune (in Taurus) and opposite the Part of Divorce (Aquarius).

4. By Whole sign system, is my moon in the third or the fourth house? I'm very new to astrology, so please bear with me.

I'm very grateful you took the time to respond to my thread

Sometimes, it's nice to see a positive reading; everything I read and try to apply to my chart is always so negative. Everything is always about how all my planets are debilitated and I'll receive no fortune/love/etc. It makes me quite sad since a lot of things in my life didn't go as planned (but that's life I suppose).

gen6k · Oct 8, 2012

youre over interpreting it. you'll be fine.

these "problems" are perhaps true, but not the correct scenario to imagine them in.

most people have some kind of problems with marriage. i have the 7ths ruler opposite Mars. my will seems to go against theirs. as well as opposite chiron, theres a lot of healing themes and something to fix. since the oppositions to the ruler are in the 12th house i seem to pick "broken" partners. the last person i tried to partner with was so broken that they didnt even know they were broken...

now i just want to have fun (gemini venus) cause i cant always carry the load, and not as capable anymore.

just try to see what you could run in to, and avoid or deal with those situations correctly before its too late.

http://sacred-astrology.blogspot.com/2007/03/details-of-rahu-in-aquarius-kumbh-and.html

you have rahu in pisces according to vedic.

JUPITERASC · Oct 9, 2012

boom said:
4. By Whole sign system, is my moon in the third or the fourth house?

boom your whole sign chart is attached - your Moon is in 4th whole sign house

also attached is your alcabitius houses chart which is the one for medieval delineation purposes - note that your natal Moon is in 4th for alcabitius house system - for optimum results it is important to delineate with the appropriate house system

boom · Oct 14, 2012

JUPITERASC said:
boom your whole sign chart is attached - your Moon is in 4th whole sign house

also attached is your alcabitius houses chart which is the one for medieval delineation purposes - note that your natal Moon is in 4th for alcabitius house system - for optimum results it is important to delineate with the appropriate house system

Thanks! Out of curiosity, would my Mercury and Venus be interpreted in the 5th or 6th house? These planets are so close to the 6th house cusp in the alcabitius house system chart.

JUPITERASC · Oct 14, 2012

boom said:
Thanks! Out of curiosity, would my Mercury and Venus be interpreted in the 5th or 6th house? These planets are so close to the 6th house cusp in the alcabitius house system chart.

Whole signs is useful as it clearly identifies whole signs as whole houses - clearly showing that Sun, Mars, Venus and Mercury are all Leo so are all in 6th whole sign house. Makes sense

Dynamical division is used to gauge planetary strength. Sun Venus and Mercury being in 5th Alcabitius house shows these three planets being in a succedent house are likely to produce more events than Mars in 6th Cadent house. Planets producing most events are located in 1st, 4th, 7th and 10th angular houses

boom · Oct 14, 2012

JUPITERASC said:
Whole signs is useful as it clearly identifies whole signs as whole houses - clearly showing that Sun, Mars, Venus and Mercury are all Leo so are all in 6th whole sign house. Makes sense

Dynamical division is used to gauge planetary strength. Sun Venus and Mercury being in 5th Alcabitius house shows these three planets being in a succedent house are likely to produce more events than Mars in 6th Cadent house. Planets producing most events are located in 1st, 4th, 7th and 10th angular houses

Do the placements of Sun, Venus in Mercury in 5th change the reading for Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)? All my personal planets (excluding Moon) are all still combust

Plus, these planets are so close to the 6th house cusp. Do they still express themselves fully in the 5th?

I read up on planetary placements in the 5th house and while I feel like I fit some of the descriptions, I can't help but wonder if it stems from the fact I have a lot of Leo placements or the 5th house (I'm quite childish, I love going to the theatre/concerts, self-expression is key).

JUPITERASC · Oct 14, 2012

boom said:
Do the placements of Sun, Venus in Mercury in 5th change the reading for Delineating Marriage (Medieval Method)? All my personal planets (excluding Moon) are all still combust Plus, these planets are so close to the 6th house cusp. Do they still express themselves fully in the 5th?

I read up on planetary placements in the 5th house and while I feel like I fit some of the descriptions, I can't help but wonder if it stems from the fact I have a lot of Leo placements or the 5th house (I'm quite childish, I love going to the theatre/concerts, self-expression is key).

That's why I posted the Alcabitius houses for you boom, because the Medieval Method is delineated using Alcabitius houses - the examples on the thread are using Alcabitius houses And as there are so many layers of meaning/interpretation with this method, so its a good idea to check out basic natal chart delineation using Alcabitius houses as well for more insight. Take time to process the info http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48463

Culpeper · Oct 14, 2012

I do not see what all the panic is about over this horoscope chart. It is really very good. However, you are confusing yourself by mixing rules from horary and natal as well as different time periods. I will just use Hellenistic since you mention that.

Hellenistic uses whole sign houses which are visible as the signs around the outside of the chart. It does not use aspect orbs. First find the strength of the planets determined primarily by their house position. In this chart Moon in the 4th, Sun and Mars in the 7th and Saturn in the 10th are the strongest planets as these are angular houses. Jupiter is also reasonably strong in the 2nd house.

The planets are active in the houses they rule rather than their location. The Moon rules the 5th house and Jupiter rules the first. These houses are represented by fruitful signs with strong rulers so this indicates that the native will have children.

The 7th house of marriage is Virgo ruled by Mercury. Mercury is in the 6th cadent house. Cadent planets are weak and slow to act if ever. However, Mercury has aspects and conjunction with Venus-- really favorable. The aspects are a grand trine kite. Also there is a mutual reception with the Sun. Mercury will certainly do something good for you in due course.

Triplicity rulers were very important in Hellenistic. Since this is a night chart the triplicity ruler of Virgo and the 7th house is the Moon. The Moon as previously shown is strong and this is a very favorable indication of marriage. So matters are better than you think.

boom · Oct 27, 2012

I keep trying to find out more about "combustion" and it seems as though everything points to never being fortunate in relationships because my 7th house ruler and venus are combust. I've had 4 massive crushes go bust in the past year (all of whom have girlfriends). I've tried to become more proactive in my approach to guys, but a lot of the time there's something in the way. It's frustrating and irritating.

waybread · Oct 27, 2012

Have you followed any of the above advice? Or just reverted to your "poor me" trope?

You sound like the girl "who's in love with love." And that's fine. But "four crushes in the past year"? That must be some kind of world record. Is anything about these men really suitable for you, or are you just feeling starved for affection?

As a Leo, you need to remember that you are royalty. Walk with pride, and look and act your best. Otherwise, the lioness just sulks in her den, licking her (oftentimes imagined) wounds-- possibly generated by your moon conjunct chiron. Express self confidence, even when you don't feel it. Fake it till you make it.

With your stellium in the 6th house, focus on health-fitness and/or service to other people for now.

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