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Unread 04-10-2013, 12:01 AM
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Winterborn Winterborn is offline
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Will I find the property I need?

I hope somebody will give me some input on this chart.

A friend of mine asked this question -- she is looking for property to start an animal sanctuary. She specifically asked if she would find the property before 2015.

I have studied the chart thoroughly but am still uncertain because I'm a beginner at this. As the 7th ruler is retrograde, I am apparently hampered in giving a "solid" judgement (per Lilly, CA p. 123).

The Moon is my friend (querent), Mercury rules the quesited (4th house). The Moon applies to Mercury, and will perfect the sextile in 8 units of time. BUT!

To me, the chart says "no," she won't find the property, for the following reasons: the fact that the Moon is so weak, being peregrine (being angular and fast are its only strengths); the fact that it applies to no fewer than 3 planets (not counting Pluto and Uranus) before perfecting its aspect (abscission of light); its opposition to the Asc; and its conjunction to Facies. That seems like a pretty strong statement to me.

My question is, could it be possible that she WILL find a property by 2015, but all the prohibitions merely provide obstacles and delays along the way? Or do they completely negate the possibility of finding any property at all?

Of course I want to give her a positive answer, so I'm looking for a way to do so.

By the way, I also used dr. farr's Magic 8 Ball technique on this, which gives a "yes" answer (in Regio, whole sign houses and Placidus). I am wondering if it could be that she DOES find a property, but maybe it turns out to have too many problems to be useful ...

Any opinions or help would be most appreciated!
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Last edited by Winterborn; 04-10-2013 at 12:04 AM.
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Unread 04-10-2013, 12:06 AM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Re: Will I find the property I need?

You may be able to find the answer through horary, but with horary there is generally a fairly short time slot, which amounts to about 3 months. After a year, the validity of the question is often shot to hail. Beyond that time period, the answers tend increasingly to a 50-50 answer.

Last edited by Zarathu; 04-10-2013 at 01:15 AM.
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Unread 04-10-2013, 01:00 AM
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Re: Will I find the property I need?

Oh! Very interesting!

Thanks so much for your reply.
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Unread 04-10-2013, 04:08 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: Will I find the property I need?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
You may be able to find the answer through horary, but with horary there is generally a fairly short time slot, which amounts to about 3 months. After a year, the validity of the question is often shot to hail. Beyond that time period, the answers tend increasingly to a 50-50 answer.
I agree as to the short-term nature of horary (that's why "ever" type questions are not really capable of being accurately delineated in horary) Two year time spans are, I believe, rather excessive-are stretching the time limits for horary (in my opinion)-however I think we can consider the implied "(anytime) OVER (or DURING) the next 2 years" as still within time-bounds for a "probably" reliable answer.

(Following is not in accordance with standard horary practice and uses whole sign house format)

Note: I am assuming that the OP's friend asked this question, and that the "I" in the chart's title refers to the querent's friend as the person who actually asked this question.
I'll use the Lot of Realization of Needs & Desires (LORNAD = ascendant+mercury-part of fortune) to estimate an answer to this question:

-querent = 1st house (see above) = Cancer = Moon
-money = 2nd house = Leo = Sun
-property = 4th house = Libra = Venus
-hopes and wishes = 11th house = Taurus = Venus
-LORNAD falls @ 21 Gemini
a) in the 12th whole sign house (restrictions and difficulties) = - testimony
b) its dispositor, Mercury, in detriment in Pisces (-) but flows toward both the LORNAD and the Part of Fortune (+) = net neutral testimony
-querent (Moon) flows toward LORNAD = + testimony
-Sun (money) flows toward LORNAD = + testimony
-Venus (property and 11th house significator of hopes and wishes) is combust Sun (= money problems can interfere) and in detriment in Aries = - testimony
-yet, Venus (property, hopes & wishes) also flows toward LORNAD = + testimony
Results:
Positive = +3 testimonies
Negative = -2 testimonies
Net = +1 testimony

With a net +1 testimony, indications are slightly favorable for this person to realize their hope, over the next 2 years; with LORNAD in the 12th house, and the Sun (money significator) combust Venus (property and hopes/wishes significator), clearly the matter will be hard to realize, there will be difficulties involved which could block or delay the project; however, the net answer to this quest is yes, albeit a "weak" yes, so perhaps if the querent takes steps to ensure especially the money angle for the project, it will eventually turn out favorably (according to my delineation of this chart)

Last edited by dr. farr; 04-10-2013 at 04:29 AM.
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Unread 04-10-2013, 05:06 PM
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Re: Will I find the property I need?

Thank you, dr. farr, for that analysis! Even though my interpretation seemed to be saying "no," I still had the feeling that it could be a qualified yes, with a lot of difficulty along the way. I was thinking she could find it as early as 8 months (using Regio houses and Merc as significator of the property), but that problems might delay her actually taking ownership of it until much later.

Oh and you're right, the "I" in the original question is my friend, the querent.

As for the time limits in horary, I've been thinking about that a lot. Logically, if a horary chart can give an answer in terms of years, then it seems you should be able to ask a question involving a time frame of years and expect a valid, reliable answer.

I know some astrologers refuse "ever" questions, but Lilly didn't ("will I ever have children?"). Anthony Louis refuses them -- not because the chart may not be reliable indefinitely -- but for ethical reasons of not wanting to dash somebody's hopes.

On her site, Lee Lehman discourages "ever" questions, but her reason for that is to avoid asking the same question twice. And the time frame she suggests using (as one example) is actually two years.

I think you could even make a case that a great majority of straightforward questions actually imply "ever." Ivy Goldstein-Jacobson gives lots of examples of such questions, including, "Shall I become rich?" or "Will the missing child return?" (She also includes "Shall I ever get married?")

But even simple questions such as "Will I recover my wallet?" (Derek Appleby, Horary Astrology) really mean "will I *ever* recover my wallet?" (although we understand he wants to find it as soon as possible).

But then, my friend would like to find the property as soon as possible, too. That goes without saying, as it does in all these other questions.

So I guess if my friend had merely asked "Will I find the property I need?" without giving a time frame, it would have been considered a perfectly valid horary question, capable of yielding a reliable answer.

But I still think you could argue that without a time frame, the implication of her question would be "will I ever find the property -- yes or no?" with the unspoken wish that it be found sooner than later, at least "by 2015." So it seems to me the chart should be able to yield a reliable "yes" or "no" answer to the question of whether it will be found, and if "yes," when that would happen.

Anyway, sorry for rambling on ... but so far, the only reliability problem I see is in this question is the inexperience of me in reading the chart!

Thanks very much for your help!
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Unread 04-12-2013, 03:40 PM
Teddy Teddy is offline
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Re: Will I find the property I need?

Dr Farr

Could you explain the meaning of "flows towards" is this an aspect i.e. conjunction,trine,sextile etc.,

Thank you
Teddy
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Unread 04-13-2013, 03:59 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: Will I find the property I need?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy View Post
Dr Farr

Could you explain the meaning of "flows towards" is this an aspect i.e. conjunction,trine,sextile etc.,

Thank you
Teddy
Flows toward (or flows away from) means BODILY MOVEMENT TOWARD OR AWAY; it does NOT refer to formation, application or seperation of a geometric relationship (ie, of an ASPECT)

The BODILY DIRECTION (moving toward or away from) gets the primary attention in the "Ankara horary" method (actually more correctly known, historically, as the Ottoman astrological horary method); aspects (ie only applying aspects that will perfect) are considered SECONDARY factors, in this alternative horary approach.
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