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  #101  
Unread 07-19-2019, 08:39 PM
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Re: Comparison of fate vs free will in traditional astrology vs modern astrology

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I understand where you are coming from
No. You don't.

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  #102  
Unread 07-20-2019, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Those who can learn from experience have a better chance of making wiser free-will choices.
I'd like to believe the same. And I'm not sure what you meant by Saturn and Mars being the greater and lesser Femalefics ,altho I still found it funny lol.

But I'd like to believe Saturn isn't a cruel planet or energy. You know how they say the light seeps through the cracks , to me it seems Saturn is the one making those cracks.
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  #103  
Unread 07-20-2019, 10:26 AM
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Re: Comparison of fate vs free will in traditional astrology vs modern astrology

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But I'd like to believe Saturn isn't a cruel planet or energy.
You know how they say the light seeps through the cracks , to me
it seems Saturn is the one making those cracks.
Those who dislike consequences of choices they have made
learn to make choices with more preferable consequences for them
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  #104  
Unread 07-20-2019, 12:00 PM
lostinstars lostinstars is offline
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Re: Comparison of fate vs free will in traditional astrology vs modern astrology

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Do you have this book, it is $65, or a pdf?
Yes I do, you can't get the pdf anywhere. Wish I could have bought the auric edition as it is nicely bound in goat leather with Saturn's sigil engraved in lead at the front. But they are very very expensive anywhere from 170 € to 200 €.

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No. You don't.
Well then feel free to challenge me with your experiences with Saturn.
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  #105  
Unread 07-20-2019, 12:19 PM
lostinstars lostinstars is offline
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Re: Comparison of fate vs free will in traditional astrology vs modern astrology

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But I'd like to believe Saturn isn't a cruel planet or energy. You know how they say the light seeps through the cracks , to me it seems Saturn is the one making those cracks.

Since we will not change our positions I want to ask you this. Why do you think Saturn causes cracks but not Uranus in this new age as according to new age modern astrology Uranus seems to be pulling the strings?
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  #106  
Unread 07-21-2019, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by lostinstars View Post
Since we will not change our positions I want to ask you this. Why do you think Saturn causes cracks but not Uranus in this new age as according to new age modern astrology Uranus seems to be pulling the strings?
Because the cracks I was referring to usually deal with pain, frustration and restriction to the point where you are humbled . Uranus isn't that. Uranus is sporadic quick change. Saturn is the one that can cause the most pain by denying and restricting.
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  #107  
Unread 07-21-2019, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ardentika View Post
I'd like to believe the same. And I'm not sure what you meant by Saturn and Mars being the greater and lesser Femalefics ,altho I still found it funny lol.

But I'd like to believe Saturn isn't a cruel planet or energy. You know how they say the light seeps through the cracks , to me it seems Saturn is the one making those cracks.
It was a play on words, involving shape-shifting from male to female, and the expression "Greater MALEfic".
Like "Herstory" instead of "History".
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  #108  
Unread 07-21-2019, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
It was a play on words, involving shape-shifting from male to female, and the expression "Greater MALEfic".
Like "Herstory" instead of "History".
Hahaha okay. Part me wanted to believe those planets are more gentle on females cos we evil enough hahahah
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  #109  
Unread 07-21-2019, 12:13 PM
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Smile Re: Comparison of fate vs free will in traditional astrology vs modern astrology

Jupiter was female-friendly. Rhea, the sister and wife of Cronos/Saturn, is a female-friendly version.
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  #110  
Unread 07-21-2019, 03:11 PM
lostinstars lostinstars is offline
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Re: Comparison of fate vs free will in traditional astrology vs modern astrology

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Originally Posted by ardentika View Post
Because the cracks I was referring to usually deal with pain, frustration and restriction to the point where you are humbled . Uranus isn't that. Uranus is sporadic quick change. Saturn is the one that can cause the most pain by denying and restricting.

You clearly seem to be using the crystallising effects of Saturn's cold energy to justify your fate of cracks being opened up but I don't see the reason why Uranus needs to be brought into the picture here to help you raise your consciousness? Any change could be painful or optimistic depending on the psychological make up of the person so why should not the sudden change Uranus causes be linked to the reason someone is sad or depressed?

This is the position modern astrologers take who use traditional concepts but still discount their importance by bringing trans-personal planets. You think there were no wise or enlightened people before 18th century?

This morning I heard the debate from 2014 between Chris Brenan and some new age modern astrologer called Eric. He went on conflcting himself several times during the debate but Chris didn't put him on the spot except for once. He prided in the fact the astrologers like him should have degrees in psychology to give counselling to clients or else they are not fit to deal with clients' problems. I strongly believe people like him do not benefit clients but console them with empty words.
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  #111  
Unread 07-21-2019, 03:33 PM
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Re: Comparison of fate vs free will in traditional astrology vs modern astrology

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post

It was a play on words, involving shape-shifting from male to female, and

the expression "Greater MALEfic".
Like "Herstory" instead of "History".
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...d.php?t=128208


MALEFIC is derived from LATIN

hence these descriptions of Mars and Saturn as:
MARS aka The Lesser MALEFIC
and
SATURN aka The Greater MALEFIC

ORIGINATE AS FOLLOWS FROM :


LATIN
Maleficus, malefica
ADJECTIVE
Definitions:
harmful, noxious, injurious
of black magic
wicked, criminal, nefarious, evil
Age: In use throughout the ages
Frequency: For Dictionary, in top 10,000 words
Source: “Oxford Latin Dictionary”, 1982 (OLD)


maleficus, malefici
NOUN
declension: 2nd declension
gender: masculine
Definitions:
criminal, wrongdoer
magician, enchanter, sorcerer (L+S)
Age: In use throughout the ages
Frequency: For Dictionary, in top 10,000 words
Source: “Oxford Latin Dictionary”, 1982 (OLD)


maleficium, malefici(i)
NOUN
declension: 2nd declension
gender: neuter
Definitions:
crime/misdeed/offense
fraud/deception (L+S)
injury/hurt/wrong
pest
sorcery

Age: In use throughout the ages
Frequency: For Dictionary, in top 10,000 words
Source: “Oxford Latin Dictionary”, 1982 (OLD)


malefice
ADVERB
Definitions:
maliciously (Ecc)
mischievously (L+S)
viciously
wickedly

Age: In use throughout the ages
Frequency: Having only single citation in Oxford Latin Dictionary or Lewis + Short
Source: “Oxford Latin Dictionary”, 1982 (OLD)


malefica, maleficae
NOUN
declension: 1st declension
gender: feminine
Definitions:
sorceress
witch
Age: In use throughout the ages
Frequency: Having only single citation in Oxford Latin Dictionary or Lewis + Short
Source: “Oxford Latin Dictionary”, 1982 (OLD)


maleficio, maleficere
VERB
conjugation: 3rd conjugation
voice: intransitive
Definitions:
practice sorcery/black magic
Age: In use throughout the ages
Frequency: Having only single citation in Oxford Latin Dictionary or Lewis + Short
Source: “Oxford Latin Dictionary”, 1982 (OLD)


maleficentia, maleficentiae
NOUN
declension: 1st declension
gender: feminine
Definitions:
evil/evil-doing (L+S)
ill conduct
injury, harm
viciousness
wickedness

Age: In use throughout the ages
Frequency: Appears only in Pliny’s “Natural History”
Source: “Oxford Latin Dictionary”, 1982 (OLD)
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  #112  
Unread 07-21-2019, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by lostinstars View Post
You clearly seem to be using the crystallising effects of Saturn's cold energy to justify your fate of cracks being opened up but I don't see the reason why Uranus needs to be brought into the picture here to help you raise your consciousness? Any change could be painful or optimistic depending on the psychological make up of the person so why should not the sudden change Uranus causes be linked to the reason someone is sad or depressed?

This is the position modern astrologers take who use traditional concepts but still discount their importance by bringing trans-personal planets. You think there were no wise or enlightened people before 18th century?

This morning I heard the debate from 2014 between Chris Brenan and some new age modern astrologer called Eric. He went on conflcting himself several times during the debate but Chris didn't put him on the spot except for once. He prided in the fact the astrologers like him should have degrees in psychology to give counselling to clients or else they are not fit to deal with clients' problems. I strongly believe people like him do not benefit clients but console them with empty words.
Of course it's possible Uranus brings this as a feeling. I'm just saying I see Uranus more as a non personal planet and a bit more detached.

It's hard for me to perceive it any other way, I do have 4 planets in 11th, all in Capricorn including Uranus ,and my 11th cusp is Capricorn . So those two energies are a bit mixed with Saturn. I definitely don't think is as simple as I might make it seem it is, I think the world is colorful.

Sadness and depression don't come from a chart but as you said from outlook on life.

Also I don't know who those people are so I have no opinion on that. All I'm gonna say everyone is free to believe whatever they want and do whatever they want. Everyone is looking for themselves until they find something they like.
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  #113  
Unread 07-22-2019, 12:46 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Comparison of fate vs free will in traditional astrology vs modern astrology

Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinstars View Post
You clearly seem to be using the crystallising effects of Saturn's cold energy to justify your fate of cracks being opened up but I don't see the reason why Uranus needs to be brought into the picture here to help you raise your consciousness? Any change could be painful or optimistic depending on the psychological make up of the person so why should not the sudden change Uranus causes be linked to the reason someone is sad or depressed?

This is the position modern astrologers take who use traditional concepts but still discount their importance by bringing trans-personal planets. You think there were no wise or enlightened people before 18th century?

This morning I heard the debate from 2014 between Chris Brenan and some new age modern astrologer called Eric. He went on conflcting himself several times during the debate but Chris didn't put him on the spot except for once. He prided in the fact the astrologers like him should have degrees in psychology to give counselling to clients or else they are not fit to deal with clients' problems. I strongly believe people like him do not benefit clients but console them with empty words.
Modernistic astrologers discount the "Lights" theory of Traditionalistic astrology. That's a game-changer.
Also, better to console with kind words than to curse with doom and gloom predictions.
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  #114  
Unread 07-22-2019, 04:33 AM
lostinstars lostinstars is offline
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Re: Comparison of fate vs free will in traditional astrology vs modern astrology

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Modernistic astrologers discount the "Lights" theory of Traditionalistic astrology. That's a game-changer.
Also, better to console with kind words than to curse with doom and gloom predictions.
Then what is the difference between him and a client's friends and family? A client reaches out to a professional astrologer for genuine help not empty new age talk. And it need not be doom and gloom but giving a view that you better make peace with these areas but up to you if you want to lock horns with it rather than it doesn't matter you are consciousness let's see what you can learn from this? This empty talk won't improve the financial position of client nor improve his health. Get real seriously!
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  #115  
Unread 07-22-2019, 06:15 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Comparison of fate vs free will in traditional astrology vs modern astrology

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Originally Posted by lostinstars View Post
Then what is the difference between him and a client's friends and family? A client reaches out to a professional astrologer for genuine help not empty new age talk. And it need not be doom and gloom but giving a view that you better make peace with these areas but up to you if you want to lock horns with it rather than it doesn't matter you are consciousness let's see what you can learn from this? This empty talk won't improve the financial position of client nor improve his health. Get real seriously!
If no new insights, I agree with you. Sounds like an incompetent astrological reading.
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  #116  
Unread 07-22-2019, 06:49 AM
lostinstars lostinstars is offline
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Re: Comparison of fate vs free will in traditional astrology vs modern astrology

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If no new insights, I agree with you. Sounds like an incompetent astrological reading.

The point is not competent or incompetent. Tell me if I get cancer and I come to you to seek advice from an astrologer, what would you do?

A traditional astrologer might offer wisdom from ancient astrologers that some things are fated don't continue to suffer and enjoy your last days.

A new age astrologer might say there is some meaning in your suffering and let's imbibe the experience?

Is there a meaning in suffering? I find suffering has no meaning every one experiences it differently. It is a way to make peace with forces beyond one's control if you can't alleivate your suffering.
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  #117  
Unread 07-22-2019, 07:06 AM
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Smile Re: Comparison of fate vs free will in traditional astrology vs modern astrology

Fatalism does have its emotional advantages.
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  #118  
Unread 07-22-2019, 07:14 AM
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Re: Comparison of fate vs free will in traditional astrology vs modern astrology

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Fatalism does have its emotional advantages.

Like what?
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  #119  
Unread 07-22-2019, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by lostinstars View Post
Like what?
Not fighting for your life, so a calm feeling of "just the way it's meant to be".
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  #120  
Unread 07-22-2019, 07:19 AM
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Smile Re: Comparison of fate vs free will in traditional astrology vs modern astrology

Would ancient wisdom obviate against modern medicine?
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  #121  
Unread 07-22-2019, 07:26 AM
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Re: Comparison of fate vs free will in traditional astrology vs modern astrology

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post

If no new insights, I agree with you.

Sounds like an incompetent astrological reading.

Western astrologers require no qualifications
no one cares whether they are "competent" or not
for example
on our forum anyone may commence astrological "readings"
even if only discovered astrology five minutes ago


i.e.
anyone may legally self-style as "an astrologer"
and charge for their "astrological serivices" with impunity
whether "competent" or not

because
western astrology is considered fairground entertainment by the general public
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  #122  
Unread 07-22-2019, 07:28 AM
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Re: Comparison of fate vs free will in traditional astrology vs modern astrology

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Not fighting for your life, so a calm feeling of "just the way it's meant to be".
Thought so but no one stops anyone from achieving anything nor working towards anything. But if you know where your maximum potential is as seen in your chart, would you work on it or rather something totally different which is not seen in your chart just to test your limits?

If a chart shows a person can't be an athlete because the Mars is in a very bad diginity but the person tries for decades and finally gives up. Having the knowledge that he is not going to be an athlete helps with the freedom that let me try anyway rather than my chart says I can never be an athlete so I will be an accountant. In both the cases they have choice to make one takes one doesn't. That is the way I believe it should be to lay out the choices in front of your clients rather than misleading them saying go on trying you will become an athelete you just need to work even harder.

I feel sorry for people who are thrown into further confusion because of new age psychology driven astrology.
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  #123  
Unread 07-22-2019, 07:30 AM
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Re: Comparison of fate vs free will in traditional astrology vs modern astrology

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Would ancient wisdom obviate against modern medicine?

Of course not but modern medicine has limits so does ancient wisdom.

Last edited by lostinstars; 07-22-2019 at 07:40 AM.
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  #124  
Unread 07-22-2019, 09:04 AM
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ardentika ardentika is offline
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Originally Posted by lostinstars View Post
The point is not competent or incompetent. Tell me if I get cancer and I come to you to seek advice from an astrologer, what would you do?

A traditional astrologer might offer wisdom from ancient astrologers that some things are fated don't continue to suffer and enjoy your last days.

A new age astrologer might say there is some meaning in your suffering and let's imbibe the experience?

Is there a meaning in suffering? I find suffering has no meaning every one experiences it differently. It is a way to make peace with forces beyond one's control if you can't alleivate your suffering.
Okay this is hilarious. First of all, no astrolger can help you find your own meaning if you don't have it. Astrology as any other occult offers different views and you can't blame people for having those different views or be mad about it. Just stay in your lane ans go to people you resonate with, but don't blame people for having new age beliefs.

Many people have been cured from cancer. If you want to hear "Deal with it, you gonna die" then find a person who will tell you that. If you still have hope, which you prolly will if you were dying, you would find people who will give you hope.

No one can end your suffering but you, you put way too much weight and responsibility for things that should be your responsibility.
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  #125  
Unread 07-22-2019, 09:09 AM
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Re: Comparison of fate vs free will in traditional astrology vs modern astrology

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Originally Posted by lostinstars View Post


Thought so but no one stops anyone from achieving anything nor working towards anything. But if you know where your maximum potential is as seen in your chart, would you work on it or rather something totally different which is not seen in your chart just to test your limits?

If a chart shows a person can't be an athlete because the Mars is in a very bad diginity but the person tries for decades and finally gives up. Having the knowledge that he is not going to be an athlete helps with the freedom that let me try anyway rather than my chart says I can never be an athlete so I will be an accountant. In both the cases they have choice to make one takes one doesn't. That is the way I believe it should be to lay out the choices in front of your clients rather than misleading them saying go on trying you will become an athelete you just need to work even harder.

I feel sorry for people who are thrown into further confusion

because of new age psychology driven astrology.

Exactly
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