What is the most violent aspect?
- Thread starter Fragoso
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ImNotThere9
Well-known member
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ImNotThere9
Well-known member
Titanic phallus, oriented at a southerly clime.
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waybread
Well-known member
I don't think there are "violent aspects." There are stressful, aggressive aspects that can break out into violence in immature or psychologically distressed people who haven't learned self-control. As Mars is often involved, oftentimes athletics is a good outlet for such people, as they can express their aggression within a controlled environment.
If you add up all of the aspects in your "violent" column, you have a huge percentage of humanity! Obviously not all of these millions of people will express whater violent urges they may feel inside.
You might want to look at the charts at Astrodienst's Astro-DataBank. They have hundreds of charts for professional boxers, murderers, and celebrities you know about who have exhibited physically violent behaviour.
If you add up all of the aspects in your "violent" column, you have a huge percentage of humanity! Obviously not all of these millions of people will express whater violent urges they may feel inside.
You might want to look at the charts at Astrodienst's Astro-DataBank. They have hundreds of charts for professional boxers, murderers, and celebrities you know about who have exhibited physically violent behaviour.
BobZemco
Well-known member
I have Sun square Pluto. Without Sun square Pluto there there wouldn't be too many leaders in this world, except of course for all of the CEOs and leaders and politicians and movers and shakers that have Mercury square Uranus. Except for those that have Mars square Jupiter.
Serial murderer Ted Bundy has none of the aspects you list. He does have Mars trine Pluto.
Mark David Chapman who shot and killed John Lennon has none of the aspects you list, but he does have Mars sextile Venus (the only aspect Mars makes).
Jeffrey Dahmer has a Sun square Pluto. His Mars sextiles Mercury.
The Yorkshire Ripper (Peter Sutcliffe) has no squares or oppositions and none of the aspects you mention. He does have Moon conjunct Mars.
Michael Jackson, Prince and Dick Cavett have the aspects you list, but I'd hesitate to call them violent.
Astrology isn't black and white, and there's no formulas like "this planet square that planet equals this." Everything has to be viewed within the context of signs, houses and planet conditions.
Serial murderer Ted Bundy has none of the aspects you list. He does have Mars trine Pluto.
Mark David Chapman who shot and killed John Lennon has none of the aspects you list, but he does have Mars sextile Venus (the only aspect Mars makes).
Jeffrey Dahmer has a Sun square Pluto. His Mars sextiles Mercury.
The Yorkshire Ripper (Peter Sutcliffe) has no squares or oppositions and none of the aspects you mention. He does have Moon conjunct Mars.
Michael Jackson, Prince and Dick Cavett have the aspects you list, but I'd hesitate to call them violent.
Astrology isn't black and white, and there's no formulas like "this planet square that planet equals this." Everything has to be viewed within the context of signs, houses and planet conditions.
waybread
Well-known member
Fragoso, maybe you should define "violence." I assumed you meant "physical violence." Aggression and anger are natural human emotions, and they do not necessarily make someone violent.
Let's look at this logically. If we take all of the aspects that you listed in your "violent" list, let's give them an orb of 5-7 degrees for the planets, and up to 10 degrees for luminaries. Narrow it down a bit if you want to include semi-and sesqui-squares. Include the conjunction at maybe a wider orb if we are talking about planets like Mars, Uranus, and Pluto.
The following is quick-and-dirty and not totally accurate for any given year, but you can try this with an ephemeris for any year of interest:
If we go around the zodiac perimeter for any given year for a challenging aspect like Mars square Pluto, we would get: say 15 degrees total for the conjunction (7 degrees applying, 1 exact, and 7 separating), say 22 degrees for the squares (2x 5 degrees applying plus 1x2 for exact), and 11 degrees for the opposition (5 degrees each applying and separating, plus one degree exact.) Now we're up to 48 degrees around the 360 degree circumference: add more degrees if you would include the sesqui- and semi square. Also, if planets go retrograde during our hypothetical year, the likelihood of someone being born with a harsh Mars/Pluto aspect increases. OK, if we merely divide 48/360 we get over 13% of the population with a harsh Mars/Pluto relationship! That would mean that over one in ten people you know are violent.
Then add to this Mars/Pluto effect the probability of someone being born with one of the other aspects you mention as in the "violent" pile. Or better yet, just look at an ephemeris for a given year in question, and see how the aspects and orbs play out.
After a while, you will realize that these seemingly violent aspects cover so much real estate around the zodiac that just about everybody has one or more of them. Including grandmothers. And most of these people are not physically violent!
The key is that most people learn as children to control their aggression to within a socially acceptable level.We were all taught as kids not to hit our playmates, and most adults learned this lesson early on.
Is someone bullying you who has these difficult aspects?
BobZemco
Well-known member
Inconjunct
Well-known member
Again, this kind of dot-to-dot astrology brings disrepute onto the craft and gives ammunition to those people who would dismiss it all as a load of superstitious nonsense.
Inconjunct
Well-known member
Bob - can I just ask: Mars Combust means that it's in a close conjunction with one of the luminaries, is that right?
midnight sun
Well-known member
7. Mars in hard aspect to Neptune (A samurai person)
What is that mean???
A samurai person?? I have Mars(conjunct Sun) opposition Neptune.(It also trine my Pluto in first house and square asc) It can be violent but in a different way. Neptune usually dissolves anger. I'm a very rageful person but I can't show it. I quickly start to cry(also my Mars in Cancer) and I hate it. But if my rage is so big, I can really explode and burst into the person opposite of me 
People won't get into defense when they see my crying and yelling like crazy. A few days ago I was like that when I was in a bus. The driver was using the car like a crazy and I'm not like sitting at all, always jumping to air) When he started to argue with another driver while he was also driving, I began yelling with a crying voice tone, my rage covers all the bus and he stopped talking, got small in his chair and said "I apologize" constantly So I can totally say that Mars-Neptune has a powerful energy and I call it "insane power". I have one more story, a good example to this. In secondary school, there was a guy who's instantly insulting me and making fun of me. My psychology was not so good in these years, also and these behaviour of my class went for 5 years. In 5th year
I really became insane, I told this guy that I will kill him and meet me next day at the road of school. Next day I took a knife from the kitchen and went near him but I couldn't do anything. Again I burst into tears. But after that day no one ever said me anything So I can say that Mars-Neptune can be violent but perhaps if Mars is in another sign and also I don't think I can hurt someone really. I'm fighting with emotions and know how to attract a person with them 
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midnight sun
Well-known member
I think we can't just look at the aspects and decide a person has to be violent. My mum's Mars conjunct Uranus and square Neptune but her Mars is in 12th house and passive. I know a one more person with Mars conjunction Uranus and he is not violent, too. I'm more violent and aggressive than them. And I have a friend which has a Mars conjunct Uranus and Neptune both and I can't even imagine her violent I know lots of people with other Mars aspects; Moon, Sun, Jupiter but they are not violent. Violence as a term I understand a person that is usually agressive, talks aggressive or acts so. Violence can be psychological and those people I know are not psychologically violence, too. For being violence I think a person has to have a purpose of hurting someone or has a anger-control problem and can't control oneself. So we can't just look at Mars, for violence thought we first have to look at Mercury or Moon aspects. For example jealousy can cause violence or wanting to have power on someone. Without these thoughts, no Mars will go violent.
Also I personally think Pluto is more significant on violence than Uranus.
I know lots of people with other Mars aspects; Moon, Sun, Jupiter but they are not violent. Violence as a term I understand a person that is usually agressive, talks aggressive or acts so. Violence can be psychological and those people I know are not psychologically violence, too. For being violence I think a person has to have a purpose of hurting someone or has a anger-control problem and can't control oneself. So we can't just look at Mars, for violence thought we first have to look at Mercury or Moon aspects. For example jealousy can cause violence or wanting to have power on someone. Without these thoughts, no Mars will go violent. Also I personally think Pluto is more significant on violence than Uranus.
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Inconjunct
Well-known member
Nobody is doomed to be violent by their chart. People might have believed that 500 years ago, but nowadays most of us have a more sophisticated, intelligent understanding of how astrology and its symbols speak of human personality. You may have aspects that give you the potential to be aggressive, but it's how you work with that planetary energy that determines whether you will be aggressive or not. I have Mars opposition Saturn as part of a Grand Cross (oh yes) and I've never had a physical fight in my life, never hit anyone with any serious intent of harming them and never ever been violent to anyone.
Vista
Well-known member
Mars in hard aspect to Pluto is always a red flag to me. It doesn't mean that it will always manifest into physical violence though. They can be very passive aggressive and get sick pleasure out of causing someone pain as in their significant other. They can also be very temperamental and argumentative especially if Mercury is involved. Now where it's placed is a big factor. Some people learn to deal with these explosive energies in a constructive way as in physical sports for example. It's all what you make of it really. Sun square Pluto can make one a bit of a bully from what I have seen. Moon square Pluto, can have emotional problems usually stemming from childhood. Again generalizations; irregardless there is some truth to it.
midnight sun
Well-known member
I think passive-aggressiveness is about Neptune not Pluto.
dreamtimez
Well-known member
3. Mars in hard aspect to Sun (It creates a tyrannical person)
7. Mars in hard aspect to Neptune (A samurai person
If you know a person if one of this aspescts then that person must be violent. For sure!
I know someone who has these 2 aspects. He has Mars square Sun ... he does not get along with his father. There are long buried grievances and he left home because of his father ! He also has Mars opp. Neptune ... he's very spiritual
and that brought us close.He's very aggressive but I have never seen him being violent about anything.
Vista
Well-known member
Maybe so, but I still see that with this aspect too in a meaner kind of way, if that makes sense? Mars to Neptune, especially with Mars in the 12th house can bring on passive-aggressiveness too since the aggression or action of Mars is hindered placed in the 12th house.
BobZemco
Well-known member
Well said. Thank you for your support.
They didn't believe it then either, and they were just as "sophisticated" as we are. Aggressive does not equate to violence. If you aren't aggressive, you'll never rise to the top of your field, whatever they may be.
Seriously, people do not become company executives or bank managers or rock stars or film stars or anything else by being passive (well, I suppose some could be pushed into music or film by others, like parents or agents).
The so-called "hard" aspects in charts are what give people the drive, passion and motivation to complete the goals they want to achieve or do the things they want to do.
These "hard" Mars/Moon aspects in certain Signs or Houses in a chart can show someone passionate about romance, or family or children, but change the Signs and Houses and Mars/Moon "hard" aspects show someone passionate about their career and well motivated.
midnight sun said:
I'm inclined to agree, but it depends on sign and house placement. I have a tendency to be passive-aggressive with Saturn intercepted in Aquarius in the 3rd house in partile square (both at 11°) Neptune in Scorpio in the 12th and both Planets are also Retrograde, plus Saturn is in partile conjunction with the South Node (meaning Neptune is in the same degree as the South Node).
I cannot stress enough the importance of Signs, Houses and the Condition of the Planets when judging aspects.
midnight sun said:
I agree, and I think people misconstrue Uranus being very quick, sudden and forceful with violence although the result of Uranus aspects may be violent.
Sun square Uranus often means accident, serious injury or death, but it depends entirely on the house placement. I just read a chart of someone seriously injured on a Sun square Uranus transit. The only reason they're still alive is because Uranus was in the 3rd House (transportation, short trips) and not the 4th House.
Another person was murdered with transiting Sun square Uranus and progressed Sun within a 10' orb square natal Uranus.
Understand, it wasn't the squares, it was the placement of the Planets. Sun in the 9th square Uranus in the 1st and progressed Sun in the 10th square natal Uranus in the 8th House (so much for Free Will).
This person wasn't violent, but they were the receiver of violence.
We need to be very careful about pronouncing someone as violent, when in fact they just have a lot of energy and drive.
Arijana
Well-known member
I have to disagree...I have personally experienced violence from a Gemini 12th house Mars and nearly ended up dead-literally, it was only because of sheer luck I managed to escape,otherwise I would have been dead.
I also know some 12th house Mars people,two more actually,one of them is also in jail for killing a friend ( funny thing,the Gemini Mars that attempted to kill me,is in jail also for a previous offence-murdering his friend )
EDIT: I just checked my transits my for the near date when I was attacked,transit uranus was in my 4th,with my natal sun, but transit jupiter was also there
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