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  #1  
Unread 01-12-2016, 03:24 PM
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mercurial mercurial is offline
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What formation/pattern does my horoscope fall under?

I can't tell if it's a Splash or Asymmetrical or something else even, does anyone know?

Any thoughts on how the formation makes an effect would be good to hear also. Thanks!
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  #2  
Unread 01-12-2016, 06:24 PM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: What formation/pattern does my horoscope fall under?

I don't think it is a Splash because of the empty 120 portion.

I think it is either a Tripod or a Locomotive. It kind of fits the general requirements for a Locomotive, a full 240 degree segment and empty 120. But it ides not look like it 'fits' in the way the aspects fall.

But it does look like it fits the requirements of a Tripod. Three distinct groups , like a triple See Saw.

Go here and see what you think:

http://www.astrotheme.com/files/planetary-patterns.php
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  #3  
Unread 01-12-2016, 06:59 PM
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Re: What formation/pattern does my horoscope fall under?

Ah right ok, thanks a lot for that. Haha neither of what I originally thought, actually I think it probably is a locomotive like you say - Chiron isn't shown on the chart I posted but its 18 degrees Leo. This would characterise my chart more so as a locomotive pattern than a tripod, wouldn't it?

It might be straightforward and I'm not seeing it, but I'm wondering about the description on your link about the 'planet leading the locomotive'... it mentions counter clockwise and the natural order of the signs - would this mean from the ascendant point therefore making Pluto the leading planet in my chart?

Does the pattern of a horoscope hold a high importance in Astrology generally?
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Unread 01-12-2016, 07:36 PM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: What formation/pattern does my horoscope fall under?

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Originally Posted by mercurial View Post
Ah right ok, thanks a lot for that. Haha neither of what I originally thought, actually I think it probably is a locomotive like you say - Chiron isn't shown on the chart I posted but its 18 degrees Leo. This would characterise my chart more so as a locomotive pattern than a tripod, wouldn't it?

It might be straightforward and I'm not seeing it, but I'm wondering about the description on your link about the 'planet leading the locomotive'... it mentions counter clockwise and the natural order of the signs - would this mean from the ascendant point therefore making Pluto the leading planet in my chart?

Does the pattern of a horoscope hold a high importance in Astrology generally?
YES, the chart type, or formation, is of high importance, in my opinion. It colors everything else in the chart. Big difference between a funnel, where everything is funneled through someone's Mars, and a Splash, where it is literally evenly distributed, among all the planets.

No, the leading planet is not from the Asc. It is found by looking at the TWO planets which determine the empty space. A locomotive has about 120 degrees of open space between the rest of the group which is evenly distributed in the other 240. Your two 'engines', which pull the train are the Moon and Saturn. Your Moon in Gemini pulls the heavy load. Saturn follows.

That means that the Moon is a prominent force in your chart. It 'leads' the rest of the group in some way. Does that sound possible, to you? One clue to me is that you did make your moniker 'mercurial' ---and your moon is in gemini---
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  #5  
Unread 01-12-2016, 09:10 PM
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Re: What formation/pattern does my horoscope fall under?

I see, so in terms of transits then its as though a moving planet has the longest to wait before it reaches the leading planet until it has an interaction? And likewise the trailing planet will be reached last so the formation gives a locomotive chart a kind of start and finish system which differs from other formations? That's interesting. And Saturn trines my Moon (which according to the 120 degree idea probably happens in most locomotive charts) so the 'start/finish' is connected by the trine and gives a heightened emphasis on the two planets.

Yes haha my mercurial Gemini Moon is perhaps the feature I've most identified with from the earliest on in my study into Astrology. When I first had my horoscope read and was told about its placement I could right away understand it. I can see its characteristics touching all the aspects of my life, it feels prominent but not in the way my Capricorn ascendant feels very prominent - more so in a way where the things I do seem driven underneath (sometimes so far underneath that it takes a long time to realise) by a manic, restless curiosity - and a desperate need for options. The core, or 'mother ship' of that is the cultivation that happens when I'm alone at home - reading, writing, making etc. The astrologer I visited said I was an 'information junkie', which is perfectly apt.

PS - I had originally chosen mercurial because of my moon alongside my Virgo planets however I've read a few articles now by astrologers who don't believe Mercury really rules Virgo after all (one posited that she doesn't believe Venus rules Taurus either, but the Earth does) - do you have any thoughts about this?
Thanks for your input, its been informative!
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  #6  
Unread 01-12-2016, 11:10 PM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: What formation/pattern does my horoscope fall under?

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Originally Posted by mercurial View Post
I see, so in terms of transits then its as though a moving planet has the longest to wait before it reaches the leading planet until it has an interaction? And likewise the trailing planet will be reached last so the formation gives a locomotive chart a kind of start and finish system which differs from other formations? That's interesting. And Saturn trines my Moon (which according to the 120 degree idea probably happens in most locomotive charts) so the 'start/finish' is connected by the trine and gives a heightened emphasis on the two planets.

Yes haha my mercurial Gemini Moon is perhaps the feature I've most identified with from the earliest on in my study into Astrology. When I first had my horoscope read and was told about its placement I could right away understand it. I can see its characteristics touching all the aspects of my life, it feels prominent but not in the way my Capricorn ascendant feels very prominent - more so in a way where the things I do seem driven underneath (sometimes so far underneath that it takes a long time to realise) by a manic, restless curiosity - and a desperate need for options. The core, or 'mother ship' of that is the cultivation that happens when I'm alone at home - reading, writing, making etc. The astrologer I visited said I was an 'information junkie', which is perfectly apt.

PS - I had originally chosen mercurial because of my moon alongside my Virgo planets however I've read a few articles now by astrologers who don't believe Mercury really rules Virgo after all (one posited that she doesn't believe Venus rules Taurus either, but the Earth does) - do you have any thoughts about this?
Thanks for your input, its been informative!
Yes, you have it right about the Moon/Saturn trine being the engine that propels the other planets along. They are like the first car and last car on the train. Usually both first and last have engines, and the first pulls them and the last can be a back up and pull in the opposite direction when necessary. And thus your curiosity and deep need for data/information propels you forward each day. But Saturn is there to put some valid restraints in place and try and make it reasonable and logical and relevant to pursue said knowledge.

I am still kind of attached to the old fashioned notion that Mercury rules Virgo. Having a fixed grand square involving Mercury and Pluto makes it hard to let go sometimes. lol

However, when I went to a wonderful workshop on the asteroids, back in the 80's, I heard a lecture by Zipp Dobbyns about Chiron possibly being the ruler of Virgo. I don't remember all of the supporting data now, and don't know if it is still put forward as such. But it does make a lot of sense too.
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Unread 01-13-2016, 01:03 AM
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Re: What formation/pattern does my horoscope fall under?

Ah yeah, I'd heard that somewhere too about Chiron although I'm not sure how I feel about Chiron - I'm sure I don't know enough about it yet to fully understand but the 'unhealing wound' stuff makes me hope this isn't the case! I prefer the idea of Ceres as a the ruler.

Wow a grand square, what kind of formation does your natal chart sport? I'm curious to know how another one might function differently.

I've also been reading about the Sabian Symbols this week by chance, and looking back tonight it was interesting to see that for my Moon's placement the symbol for 11 degrees Gemini reads;
Newly opened lands offer the pioneer new opportunities for experience. The power and joy of new beginnings.

Are the Sabian Symbols widely respected in astrology? I think from what I've read so far they're quite fascinating but I'd be keen to read Marc Edmund Jones' book to find out more.
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Unread 01-13-2016, 01:28 AM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: What formation/pattern does my horoscope fall under?

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Originally Posted by mercurial View Post
Ah yeah, I'd heard that somewhere too about Chiron although I'm not sure how I feel about Chiron - I'm sure I don't know enough about it yet to fully understand but the 'unhealing wound' stuff makes me hope this isn't the case! I prefer the idea of Ceres as a the ruler.

Wow a grand square, what kind of formation does your natal chart sport? I'm curious to know how another one might function differently.

I've also been reading about the Sabian Symbols this week by chance, and looking back tonight it was interesting to see that for my Moon's placement the symbol for 11 degrees Gemini reads;
Newly opened lands offer the pioneer new opportunities for experience. The power and joy of new beginnings.

Are the Sabian Symbols widely respected in astrology? I think from what I've read so far they're quite fascinating but I'd be keen to read Marc Edmund Jones' book to find out more.
I have the best possible 'formation ' for a Grand Square, in my opinion. Everything, except one planet, is all on one side of the chart, from 4th to 9th houses, with the opposition of the GS being the dividing line. So that is the BUCKET, with the HANDLE being Jupiter in Taurus conjunct ASC from the 12th.

So I have a Bucket with a handle, which is the Jupiter. And My Grand Square is not too malefic, as it is Jupiter opposed Mercury in Scorpio, and Pluto conjunct the South Node in Leo, opposed MC, North Node, IN Aquarius. It could be much worse. lol

I think most astrologers have a lot of respect for the Sabian Symbols. Jones and Rudyhar are both highly respected, well renowned Astrologers.

I agree that Ceres might be a better fit for Virgo. And the stubborn part of me still wants to just leave the rulerships to planets. I can easily see Mercury as the ruler of Virgo. My Virgo friends are often quite mercurial, in my opinion. My cousin, that I grew up with closely, had her Virgo ASC exactly trine my Taurus Asc. She was literally my voice of reason when we were teens. I'd say " Lets' take this bottle from Grandpas liquor cabinet and go to that party.." ---She would quietly and calmly say "well. we could do that. But tomorrow he will notice it is missing and then we will have hangovers and will have to try and explain it, while having the heaves…" LOL She saved me from my Jupiter Squares so many times.
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  #9  
Unread 01-13-2016, 06:31 PM
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mercurial mercurial is offline
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Re: What formation/pattern does my horoscope fall under?

Haha! I am that friend, although I'm not drawn to it in others. I'm surrounded by fiery folk for some reason, perhaps because I have none in my chart (except Chiron in Leo, although the astrologer I saw didn't consider this to be significant fire energy). Sagittarius particularly I've noticed, my North Node is there in my 11th so I'd say that that's a good thing. I give the reasoning, like your cousin, but know before I start that I'd rather be persuaded anyway!

So in a bucket formation, the 'handle' planet is the instigator? And I suppose transiting effects are lead to there? All roads lead to big fun perhaps if your handle is Jupiter rising.
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