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  #1  
Unread 08-05-2006, 10:13 AM
Shining Ray Shining Ray is offline
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Closest applying aspects

In the Natal Chart the closest applying aspect between two planets, which is supposed to mean your most pressing lesson this lifetime. Mine is Sun Opposed Saturn. These planets are also Angular planets in my chart.

Does anyone have more information on the significance of this, is it the major lesson to learn this lifetime.

Or would it be my Moon/Mercury conjunction, but I think it will mean the slower moving planets. Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are the planets which teach the lessons to the personal planets.

Shining Ray

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  #2  
Unread 08-05-2006, 11:42 AM
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Re: Closest applying aspects

Um, I've only just started thinking about applying and separating aspects in the natal chart. If you count Mercury and Sun (which moves faster?? How can I tell if they are applying or separating??) then it is those two, in 6H sagittarius.

If looking at applying between inner/outer planets, then 7H Aqua Venus sextile 5H Saggie Uranus. I like that aspect
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Unread 08-05-2006, 01:54 PM
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Re: Closest applying aspects

I believe this depends upon the astrology circumstances surrounding your birth; were you born shortly before a Mercury retrograde, when Mercury was coming to station? Do you have retrograde Mercury in your natal chart?

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Unread 08-05-2006, 02:03 PM
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Re: Closest applying aspects

I did some investigating - progressed my chart forwards a day...Mercury is the faster moving planet, and overtakes the Sun. Their original positions are 18'20 for Merc, and 18'23 for the Sun, so it's my closest applying aspect of personal planets, at least. What's yours, Arian?
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Unread 08-06-2006, 10:18 PM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Re: Closest applying aspects

Quote:
Um, I've only just started thinking about applying and separating aspects in the natal chart. If you count Mercury and Sun (which moves faster?? How can I tell if they are applying or separating??) then it is those two, in 6H sagittarius.
Applying and separating aspects depend upon how the faster planet is placed, before or after the planet it aspects.

Mercury is the fastest moving planet but secondary in daily motion to the Moon. Then comes Venus, followed by the Sun, and then Mars to Pluto in that order. A.M. made a good point regarding retro. and stationary direct motion of Mercury and Venus, in which case their daily motion may not be as fast as that of the Sun. That would influence the order of importance, but whether astrologers keep to it ???
In your chart, Mercury as the faster planet is behind the Sun. It's therefore applying to the Sun. It's also your closest aspect. The heart rules the head ? "I want" first and then "I'll think about it" afterwards ?

Quote:
If looking at applying between inner/outer planets, then 7H Aqua Venus sextile 5H Saggie Uranus. I like that aspect
Would you like it so much knowing it's an applying separating aspect? Venus is the faster planet so is moving away from Uranus, yet, natally, it has not reached the exact sextile TO Uranus. Still got a few lessons in love to learn ????

F.
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  #6  
Unread 08-07-2006, 02:11 AM
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Re: Closest applying aspects

Quote:
Still got a few lessons in love to learn ????
Oh noooooo! Evidently I also have a few lessons in astrology left to learn too....

So, I thought applying meant 'not yet perfected', as in, the planets will move INTO a perfect aspect, rather than OUT of one in the near future. I gether that this is correct.

But there is such a thing as an "applying separating" aspect, and I have one involving Venus, Uranus, 5H and 7H? I thought it had to be one or the other, applying or separating. Does it help me that it's a sextile, at least??

Thanks Frisiangal

Anyone else have an applying separating aspect? How does this differ, lesson wise, than a plain old applying aspect?
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Last edited by Howl; 08-07-2006 at 02:22 AM.
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Unread 08-07-2006, 09:26 AM
Shining Ray Shining Ray is offline
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Re: Closest applying aspects

Just been looking at my Applying and Separating aspects.

Separating Aspects Indicating Past Lives

Moon Trine Uranus 2 Separating
Moon Square Neptune 2 Separating
Neptune Sextile Pluto 2 Separating
Mercury Square Neptune 3 Separating
Venus Oppose Jupiter 5 Separating
Venus Square Pluto 7 Separating
Mars Square Uranus 8 Separating

Applying Aspects

Moon Conjunct Mercury 1 Applying
Sun Opposed Saturn 2 Applying
Mercury Sextile Venus 2 Applying
Moon Sextile Venus 3 Applying
Mercury Trine Jupiter 7 Applying
Moon Trine Jupiter 8 Applying

When looking at this list nearly all my difficult aspects are from past lives. My main lesson involving a heavy planet is my Sun Opposed Saturn. These planets are also on my angles making them even more important.

My closest Applying aspect being Moon Conjunct Mercury does fit well in my Chart. My Chart Ruler is Mercury. My Ascendant being in Virgo and containing my North Node.

I have my South Node in Pisces 7th also my Sun is there which forms the opposition to Saturn in Virgo 1st.

Pisces is where this closest applying conjunction is in the 7th. It seems to back the theme of my chart.

I have to learn not to let my emotions over rule my intellect and practicality. This is the very basis of my chart. The Sun Saturn is building a sense of self and order in my life so I can successfully combine my caring psychic emotional side with intellect and being practical. And do something constructive for my self and being able to help others in their lives but keeping balance. This makes a lot of sense to my purpose in life, I think I am finally beginning to understand what I meant to be doing with my life.

Shining Ray
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Unread 08-07-2006, 09:49 AM
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Re: Closest applying aspects

Ms. Ray

I am confused, but if I understand correctly, your Mercury Sextile Venus is an example of an applying separating aspect? Meaning that it is yet to be perfected (moving into aspect) but that the faster planet, Mercury, is actually moving away from (not towards) Venus in the natal chart.

Basing this on what Frisiangal said (see below), so do let me know whether you think I'm on target or just misled (by myself, not Frisiangal)
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Unread 08-07-2006, 09:18 PM
Shining Ray Shining Ray is offline
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Re: Closest applying aspects

Hi Howl,

This is really very confusing for me now. I am not quite grasping it. Here is what Sue Tompkins has to say in Aspects in Astrology.

Quote:
Sue Tompkins An aspect which has not yet become exact is said to be an applying aspect whilst an aspect which has already been formed and is passing away is known as a separating aspect. In each case it is the faster moving planet which applies to or separates from the slower-moving aspect

If an aspect is applying then it will become exact after birth, sometime during the person's life, whereas if it is separating it will have been exact before the individual was born. Probably partly because of this, many astrologers, including the writer, believe that applying aspects are much stronger than separating ones.

It is possible that applying aspects have more to do with action and experiences that might occur in the future whilst separating aspects may more describe the happenings that are behind the individual but still exerting an important influence. Thus separating aspects may describe 'effect' whilst applying aspects may describe 'cause'. Thus perhaps it is easier to express free will with applying aspects, and perhaps people whose charts are dominated by applying aspects lead more active lives than those whose charts are dominated by separating aspects.

John Addey felt that applying and separating aspects were certainly qualitatively different. According to recent advances in Natal Astrology he believed that the distinction between the two types of aspect, especially in psychological astrology, was at least as important as the distinction between soft and hard aspects. To the applying aspects he gave the qualities of striving, restlessness and aggressiveness, and to separating aspects, stability, tranquility and inertia.

Personally I do believe that applying aspects are more active and striving in their nature than separating ones and I also believe smaller orbs need to be applied to separating aspects than to applying ones.
According to this I have more Separating aspects so I am not as active as a person who has more applying aspects. I am going to read up more on applying aspects because I am still confused by the applying separating aspect of my Mercury Venus.

I understand because Venus is placed before mercury (Venus 5th House) and (Mercury is in 7th) so yes it is sort of separating/applying because Mercury being the faster moving planet is ahead of Venus.

I am just not quite comprehending the meaning of this I will have to study it more, find more information on it. Still don't know if I have this right.

Shining Ray
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  #10  
Unread 08-07-2006, 10:13 PM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Re: Closest applying aspects

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howl
Anyone else have an applying separating aspect? How does this differ, lesson wise, than a plain old applying aspect?
I have an applying-separating square between Mercury-Venus and Pluto and between Sun and Jupiter!

Mercury-Venus are on 7 and 9 Taurus square Pluto on 6 Leo. Mercury and Venus are the faster planets, so they are applying TO Pluto. BUT, because they are past exactitude, they are said to be separating within the applying aspect.
How does that work? If Mercury-Venus were on earlier degrees than Pluto, thus totally applying to Pluto, they would come up against the power-play of Pluto, wouldn't they? The recent Venus-Pluto thread produced some strong examples of this influence with which I could concur. It's like you have no will of your own. You're totally under the spell or manipulation of the other and what they say and think, and you'll say and do anything to keep the love alive, even grovel !!! It's a very difficult aspect to overcome. But when the Mercury-Venus is past exactitude, even though it is applying, it's as if, although you still undergo the 'spell', you become aware of the influence that the other has over you, and you HAVE the ability to overcome it. Pluto becomes part of you. If an applying square takes you into the pit of despair, the separating-applying square is the ability to climb out of it again.......at least that is my experience.

With Sun square Jupiter, Sun is on 21 Taurus and Jupiter on 18 Leo. Sun is in the 9th house, so there's an added strength between the Sun-Jupiter conflict regarding belief systems. If Sun is on an earlier degree than Jupiter, it's totally applying and up against what Jupiter implies, usually found in another, which induces a lack of self confidence, trust, optimism, belief in one's self. Everyone else is and knows better. The Jupiter health could suffer because Jupiter's qualities have difficulty expressing themselves. But when Sun is past exactitude with Jupiter, it's picked up on what Jupiter has to offer and integrated it into itself. Even though it may still undergo conflict, Sun becomes self confident, optimistic, trusting, gains knowledge and expresses a personal opinion/belief.......which can then cause confllict ......at least that is my experience.

F.
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  #11  
Unread 08-08-2006, 11:58 AM
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Re: Closest applying aspects

Hummm, okay...

I then have one aspect which is just plain applying: Mercury conjunct Sun. So this implies that I must, in this lifetime, learn to combine my thoughts/mind with my sense of purpose/self.

And then I remain seriously confused. Frisiangal, your applying-separating aspects are different to the one you pointed out for me?

Mine (Uranus Saggie 1'29, Venus Aqua 1'07) is applying because it is yet to be perfected; the faster planet is on an earlier degree. I gather that you call it separating becuase the faster planet is also 'ahead' of the slower planet in the zodiac wheel, and is thus moving 'away'??

Your two aspects (take Sun Taurus 21 and Jupiter Leo 18 as the example) -are 'separating' because they are past 'perfection' - the faster planet is on a later degree. This I understand. But you term them 'applying' because the faster planet is 'behind' the slower one on the zodiac wheel, is that right?

So, it looks to me like we're calling two opposite types of aspect both applying-separating. Are there two types of applying, and two types of separating?

Sorry if I am missing something obvious here but do you see where I am having trouble with the logic?? Here's how I picture it...

Mine:

Uranus Saggie 1'29 ------ Venus Aqua 1'07
Slower planet ----------- Faster planet
Later degree ------------ Earlier degree
Earlier sign/house --------Later sign/house

Yours:

Sun Taurus 21 ----------- Jupiter Leo 18
Faster planet ------------ Slower planet
Later degree ------------- Earlier degree
Earlier sign/house -------- Later sign/house

So just to clarify, if you don't mind: you term these both as applying-separating, but for different reasons? Thank you for having taken the time to explain
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Last edited by Howl; 08-08-2006 at 12:12 PM.
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  #12  
Unread 08-16-2006, 11:50 PM
Cassie Priam Cassie Priam is offline
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Re: Closest applying aspects

[quote=Shining Ray]In the Natal Chart the closest applying aspect between two planets, which is supposed to mean your most pressing lesson this lifetime. Mine is Sun Opposed Saturn. These planets are also Angular planets in my chart.

Does anyone have more information on the significance of this, is it the major lesson to learn this lifetime.

Or would it be my Moon/Mercury conjunction, but I think it will mean the slower moving planets. Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are the planets which teach the lessons to the personal planets.

Shining Ray[/quote]

My .02 is that it would be outer to inner planet placement. And we are going to look at applying not separating aspects.

Last edited by Cassie Priam; 08-17-2006 at 11:12 AM.
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  #13  
Unread 08-17-2006, 09:12 AM
Shining Ray Shining Ray is offline
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To Cassie

Yes if you read my post I did say it was probably the outer planet applying to the slower one. I have only discussed my closest applying aspect as a lesson.

I know you have helped me in the past Cassie, but I found your reply rude. I would never be as rude to put the thumbs down on someones post.

Shining Ray
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Unread 08-17-2006, 11:05 AM
Cassie Priam Cassie Priam is offline
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Re: To Cassie

[quote=Shining Ray]Yes if you read my post I did say it was probably the outer planet applying to the slower one. I have only discussed my closest applying aspect as a lesson.

I know you have helped me in the past Cassie, but I found your reply rude. I would never be as rude to put the thumbs down on someones post.

Shining Ray[/quote]

Dear Shining Ray,

Please accept my sincere apologies. I was taken aback that I must have come across in a rude way, that is never my intent or style. I would never knowingly put a thumbs down on any one's ideas. Never. We are here to learn and grow. And to do that we need to hear every person's thoughts on a topic, and to feel valued and respected.

Perhaps mistakenly, I thought there was a debate about how to interpret something and we were discussing several options. I was just weighing in with my .02 in the matter. I certainly do not have definitive answers on anything, I am only a novice! (Perhaps because my reply was in bold it came across stronger that was my intent. I only did that so it would stand out from the quotes. I am still getting the hang of the posting norms on this forum.)

I admit fully that I am guilty of not always having time to read and reply to each post in a thread. Sometimes I only have enough time to read the original post and then I response to that, since this is the person with the original question. And I can brief due to time limits, perhaps that comes across badly.

Thank you for the feedback Shining Ray, I will make some changes to my interaction on this site. And I again apologize if I hurt you, it was certainly not my intent.

Cassie
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Unread 08-17-2006, 11:11 AM
Cassie Priam Cassie Priam is offline
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Re: Closest applying aspects

YIKES!

Oh I think I see what you mean. There is a little red thing up by my post title. Is that the thumbs down you mentioned? I could not figure out what you meant. Then I just went back and looked at my post very closely.

I have no idea how that got there, I only use a smiley face, none of the others, and I assure you that I don't even like the thumbs down icon.

Many apologies. Now I see why you are upset. I do not blame you at all.

A total mistake. I will go and see if I can take that darn thing off.

I also have new bifocals and I cannot see the real small stuff, so I did not even notice it was there til you pointed it out! And not to make further excuses, but I cut one of my fingers so my typing is bad at this point.

Edit for PS: The nasty little icon is gone! At least I learned how you guys but those icons on in the subject thread. So sorry Shining Ray. I am an idiot, what can I say. A total Neptunian space cadet.

Last edited by Cassie Priam; 08-17-2006 at 11:23 AM.
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Unread 08-17-2006, 01:20 PM
Shining Ray Shining Ray is offline
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Re: Closest applying aspects

Don't worry about it Cassie it did seem harsh with the thumbs down. I was only exploring the idea. As you can read from the posts there is no real understanding on the subject. I was just questioning the meaning of applying aspects.

I hate the thumbs down icon it sort of puts a dampener on the whole subject. I am not saying you can't have an opinion but I prefer constructive criticism. The thumbs down is like squashing someones opinion.

I took the message as being harsh like a strong statement because of the thumbs down and the post in bold. It was just my perception of you strongly criticising me. I am oversensitive and this being too sensitive I am going to have to deal with.

I remember getting a thumbs down off Francessca on one of my threads I found her to be rude and blunt. I was going to expand on the subject in my thread with a lot of typing and explanation from my book but I thought what is the point the thumbs down kind of dampens your spirit. If you didn't mean it to come across as harsh there is no need to apologize. I was more surprised because it was you with the icon I have always found you very fair but strong in your opinions and never undermining anyone elses. But if you didn't mean to put it there then that is fine.

I just hate the thumbs down.

Shining Ray
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Unread 08-18-2006, 12:40 AM
Cassie Priam Cassie Priam is offline
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Re: Closest applying aspects

Thanks for understanding.

I agree 100%. It is thumbs down on the thumbs down icon. Maybe we should lobby to have it removed! Between that and the bold type I can certainly see why it looked like I was being a royal pain. [At least I found out (the hard way) how to do the icons. But they are so tiny I cannot really see them, so I think I better not use any. I don't even know what half of them mean. The thumbs down looks like a red girl with streaming hair to me!]

And when I was saying this is my .02, it meant that my opinion doesn't hold a lot of weight! I agree that no one is really certain. And squashing others opinions defeats the whole purpose of a forum I think.

Last edited by Cassie Priam; 08-18-2006 at 01:46 AM.
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  #18  
Unread 08-18-2006, 02:27 AM
Francesca Francesca is offline
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Re: Closest applying aspects

Duh, I'm so confused.

My closest applying aspect is Pluto in Leo in the 12th approaching Saturn in Leo ..... I think. Anyway, now that I know that, how does one deduce the lesson?
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