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  #1  
Unread 06-11-2020, 12:18 AM
WisdomJoy WisdomJoy is offline
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Q about a friend: her thoughts of me

I was prompted to ask this question (what are her thoughts of me?) based on a remark from a conversation we had. It made me question, in some capacity, whether she thinks she's better than me. She does ask me for advice quite often so I found it interesting that she made the comment. I figured it would be good to cast a chart and find out.

I checked if it was fit for judgment and based on the site I use and mars is the hour ruler and sag is the ascendent, so it is.

L1 I'm Jupiter retrograde and in detriment. Sitting in my second house and the moon is in the third house, so that is right. A conversation prompted the question and I'm also sitting in my second house. I know that normally people say this is related to self esteem but I don't find that to be the case in this example. I am genuinely curious.

L11 Venus is in retrograde and in her 9th house making an aspect to her 8th cusp. The sun is also sitting in the 9th house. I know that the 9th house can represent inspired thoughts and philosophy and beliefs. It's interesting because in her comments she referenced herself in that manner but noted some superiority to it. I think this just reinforces her comments about intellectualism and her perception of herself. It's what's on her mind and what she cares about.

Anyway, any builds are helpful.

WJ


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  #2  
Unread 06-11-2020, 03:04 AM
ameliaastrology ameliaastrology is offline
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Re: Q about a friend: her thoughts of me

-Venus ruling 11 is in the 7th. That's a place opposite the ascendant (1 degree applying). She's in a confrontational mood, probably not very happy with you.

-Mixed reception. Venus is in Jupiter's term and face and detriment, and Jupiter is in Venus' triplicity (and Jupiter's own fall). There are still warm feelings towards each other.

-Weak significators. Venus is retrograde; Jupiter is retrograde - being in two minds about this friendship and maybe at times acting out of character. Venus is under the sunbeams - can't see very clearly.

-Moon is in a sign of friendship, dignified by face, but void. Not much can be done.

-There is no aspect to connect you.

So a bit of a rough patch at the moment. Maybe just give each other some space for now?

Last edited by ameliaastrology; 06-11-2020 at 07:24 AM.
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  #3  
Unread 06-11-2020, 03:32 AM
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Re: Q about a friend: her thoughts of me

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Originally Posted by ameliaastrology View Post
-Venus ruling 11 is in the 7th. That's a place opposite the ascendant (1 degree applying). She's in a confrontational mood, probably not very happy.

-Mixed reception. Venus is in Jupiter's term and face and detriment, and Jupiter is in Venus' triplicity (and Jupiter's own fall). There are still warm feelings towards each other.

-Weak significators. Venus is retrograde; Jupiter is retrograde - being in two minds about this friendship and maybe at times acting out of character. Venus is under the sunbeams - can't see very clearly.

-Moon is in a sign of friendship, dignified by face, but void. Not much can be done.

-There is no aspect to connect you.

So a bit of a rough patch at the moment. Maybe just give each other some space for now?
Thanks for looking at it, I'm definitely going to leave it for a bit.

I don't understand what prompted this though. I mean, we're both super upset with the current situation going on in the world but I don't know what specifically made her make a comment that claimed intellectual superiority.
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Unread 06-11-2020, 03:36 AM
ameliaastrology ameliaastrology is offline
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Re: Q about a friend: her thoughts of me

The 7th indicates competitiveness.
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  #5  
Unread 06-11-2020, 03:47 AM
WisdomJoy WisdomJoy is offline
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Re: Q about a friend: her thoughts of me

I get what you're saying about the competitiveness, I feel it sometimes for sure. She recently applied for a board role and it didn't work out. I'm wondering if that specifically prompted it. It's a bit difficult to get on boards where I live and she seemed to have taken it really personally.
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Unread 06-11-2020, 09:50 AM
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Chrysalis Chrysalis is offline
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Re: Q about a friend: her thoughts of me

Use 7th not 11th, she's a single person you're asking about, not a group of people.

It's a simple answer. Mercury is the most elevated planet in the chart, so yes she does think she is a little better than you.

You know how i love my Arabic parts wisdom joy, so let's throw one in. I've looked at a part called intelligence, her POI is @ 23 Aquarius. As you can see the moon has just left this part by conjunction. This is another confirmation.

I would like to say though on a more positive note. With Venus conjunct the Dsc, she has not intentional malice towards you. She is still your friend.
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Unread 06-11-2020, 11:07 AM
ameliaastrology ameliaastrology is offline
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Re: Q about a friend: her thoughts of me

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Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
Use 7th not 11th, she's a single person you're asking about, not a group of people.
Not sure about this.

William Lilly, CA P. 459 (London:John Macock, 1659):

"If one asks, If he shall joyn, and be at Concord and Unity with his Friend, or not? behold the Lord of the Ascendant and Moon, if you finde them applying to the Lord of the eleventh house, say they shall both join and agree together… ... but if the application be by square or opposition, ...and the one shall be irksome to the other."

Deb Houlding's example that gives 11th to one specific friend (a friend turned love rival, in this case)
https://www.skyscript.co.uk/leave_husband.html

Barbara Dunn in questions involving a friend constantly uses the 11th house. Re. Horary Astrology Re-examined.

There are other astrologers that do the same.
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  #8  
Unread 06-11-2020, 11:30 AM
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Re: Q about a friend: her thoughts of me

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Originally Posted by ameliaastrology View Post
Not sure about this.

William Lilly, CA P. 459 (London:John Macock, 1659):

"If one asks, If he shall joyn, and be at Concord and Unity with his Friend, or not? behold the Lord of the Ascendant and Moon, if you finde them applying to the Lord of the eleventh house, say they shall both join and agree together… ... but if the application be by square or opposition, ...and the one shall be irksome to the other."

Deb Houlding's example that gives 11th to one specific friend (a friend turned love rival, in this case)
https://www.skyscript.co.uk/leave_husband.html

Barbara Dunn in questions involving a friend constantly uses the 11th house. Re. Horary Astrology Re-examined.

There are other astrologers that do the same.

For me, all relationship horaries are 7th house matters, in that we use the 7th to signify "the other". Be it an enemy, a friend, a lover, an ex, business partner etc. The 11th is social groups and friend(s).

If you or any others want to use 11th, use 11th.
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Unread 06-11-2020, 11:42 AM
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Re: Q about a friend: her thoughts of me

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Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
For me, all relationship horaries are 7th house matters, in that we use the 7th to signify "the other". Be it an enemy, a friend, a lover, an ex, business partner etc. The 11th is social groups and friend(s).

If you or any others want to use 11th, use 11th.

Yup. No problem. Your reasoning sounds good to me. I was afraid though people reading this chat would take giving a friend the 11th as an erroneous practice, so I felt a duty to back it up with some sources.

Cheers,
Amelia
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Unread 06-11-2020, 12:52 PM
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Re: Q about a friend: her thoughts of me

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Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
Use 7th not 11th, she's a single person you're asking about, not a group of people.

It's a simple answer. Mercury is the most elevated planet in the chart, so yes she does think she is a little better than you.

You know how i love my Arabic parts wisdom joy, so let's throw one in. I've looked at a part called intelligence, her POI is @ 23 Aquarius. As you can see the moon has just left this part by conjunction. This is another confirmation.

I would like to say though on a more positive note. With Venus conjunct the Dsc, she has not intentional malice towards you. She is still your friend.
Hi Chrysalis, thanks for your note. If we take the 11th for my friend then does the Arabic parts tell the same story?

WJ
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Unread 06-11-2020, 01:19 PM
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Re: Q about a friend: her thoughts of me

My apologies ive misinterpreted the lot of intelligence calculation. It should infact be at 19° Cancer, which her mercury flow towards, which is another yes.

For me your friend is 7th, but if we used 11th, her LOI would be at 19° Scorpio in the 12th house trine Mars, The LOI in Cancer is also trine mars. [?]

7th to me makes more sense, she's your friend that you have a one on one relationship, you relate to each other, not amongst.
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Unread 06-11-2020, 01:19 PM
Ouranos Ouranos is offline
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Re: Q about a friend: her thoughts of me

Hello WisdomJoy,

From another angle, the 4th (End of the matter) Mars L4
JUP (Yourself) although in Fall is in the bound and ruling Mars
--You don't get much out of it but that's OK
And the Moon Void but in Joy in the 3rd
--Talking about it puts a balm on the matter.

Kind regards,
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Unread 06-11-2020, 01:26 PM
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Re: Q about a friend: her thoughts of me

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Originally Posted by Ouranos View Post
Hello WisdomJoy,

From another angle, the 4th (End of the matter) Mars L4
JUP (Yourself) although in Fall is in the bound and ruling Mars
--You don't get much out of it but that's OK
And the Moon Void but in Joy in the 3rd
--Talking about it puts a balm on the matter.

Kind regards,
Ouranos
Thanks for your note. Do you think that she thinks she's better than me? Also, did you use 7th or 11th?

I thought that more than anything she is competitive towards me, and maybe hasn't even realized.

You are right, theres nothing to be done about it. But I feel better knowing her intent. Example, I won't necessarily share my wins with her if it's going to prompt negativity towards me.

Also, she's not actually smarter than I am. I am not smarter than her either. We're both smart. And that's the truth.
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Unread 06-11-2020, 06:02 PM
WisdomJoy WisdomJoy is offline
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Re: Q about a friend: her thoughts of me

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Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
My apologies ive misinterpreted the lot of intelligence calculation. It should infact be at 19° Cancer, which her mercury flow towards, which is another yes.

For me your friend is 7th, but if we used 11th, her LOI would be at 19° Scorpio in the 12th house trine Mars, The LOI in Cancer is also trine mars. [?]

7th to me makes more sense, she's your friend that you have a one on one relationship, you relate to each other, not amongst.
I think in makes sense for LOI to be trining mars. Mars is her 2nd house of self-esteem, right? She once said to me that her big break in life was going to be her getting famous off her mind. She said its what she has to offer the world. Her perception of intelligence is wrapped up in her identity and self esteem. It's her golden ticket one can say. Her destiny she thinks.

Is there something about me thats threatening her ego?

Last edited by WisdomJoy; 06-11-2020 at 06:12 PM.
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Unread 06-11-2020, 06:32 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Q about a friend: her thoughts of me

The moon here is actually void of course.

I would put a friend in the 11th, Venus, who is perched on the cusp of your house of open enemies. What you see is what you get, she is showing herself for what she is, not hiding.
Jupiter approaches a retrograde conjunction with Pluto, ruler of the 12th of WisdomJoy, your subconscious picking up signals, and this is HER 2nd of self esteem.
So she feels less in comparison to you.

"Is there something about me thats threatening her ego?"
What is the ego? It is sun.
The sun in the chart is outshining Venus, who is combust.
And look where sun is going, a square with Neptune, just leaving the square with mars.
So a little rattled and irritated, and now self-conscious and doubting of self.
And what house does sun rule? Her 11th house. Her friendship with you is burning her out.
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Unread 06-11-2020, 06:45 PM
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Re: Q about a friend: her thoughts of me

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The moon here is actually void of course.

I would put a friend in the 11th, Venus, who is perched on the cusp of your house of open enemies. What you see is what you get, she is showing herself for what she is, not hiding.
Jupiter approaches a retrograde conjunction with Pluto, ruler of the 12th of WisdomJoy, your subconscious picking up signals, and this is HER 2nd of self esteem.
So she feels less in comparison to you.

"Is there something about me thats threatening her ego?"
What is the ego? It is sun.
The sun in the chart is outshining Venus, who is combust.
And look where sun is going, a square with Neptune, just leaving the square with mars.
So a little rattled and irritated, and now self-conscious and doubting of self.
And what house does sun rule? Her 11th house. Her friendship with you is burning her out.
Okay, I don't want anyone to ever feel less in comparison to me because candidly I'm not better than anyone else in the world and I'm thinking this is stemming from a board posting that she was passed over for. I've been passed over for multiple board postings and I shared that with her. But I'm just trying to pin point where this specific comment originated from, like the bubble that popped and I'm thinking it's that.
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Unread 06-11-2020, 07:23 PM
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Re: Q about a friend: her thoughts of me

Quote:
Do you think that she thinks she's better than me? Also, did you use 7th or 11th?
I don't think that she is smarter than you. But Jupiter (Fall) just shows your insecurity or as Lilly would put it "...calling for an apology"
For her, the Sun in 7th ruling the 9th and squaring Neptune shows her delusional state of mind and self-esteem (the Sun rejoices as L9, also called the House of God)
And I used both Houses because Venus sitting on the 7th rules the 11th. Like competing with a friend or testing your friendship. But Venus as competitor is not like Mars, it translates as envy or jealousy.

Take care,
Ouranos
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Unread 06-11-2020, 07:35 PM
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Re: Q about a friend: her thoughts of me

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Originally Posted by Ouranos View Post
I don't think that she is smarter than you. But Jupiter (Fall) just shows your insecurity or as Lilly would put it "...calling for an apology"
For her, the Sun in 7th ruling the 9th and squaring Neptune shows her delusional state of mind and self-esteem (the Sun rejoices as L9, also called the House of God)
And I used both Houses because Venus sitting on the 7th rules the 11th. Like competing with a friend or testing your friendship. But Venus as competitor is not like Mars, it translates as envy or jealousy.

Take care,
Ouranos
It partly made me stop when she said it because my instincts immediately picked up that she wasn't coming from a good place and that this is the first time that I've questioned her in that manner.

Thank you for clarifying this, it is helpful.

I'll take some space and then just move along.
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Unread 06-11-2020, 09:28 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Q about a friend: her thoughts of me

If you ask about her thoughts of you, we can look at the chart and see contacts between you two, and how they are, but if you ask what was the specific thing that touched it off, we can't answer that with a horary.
If you ask, Was she mad at me when I said this specific thing, it can be answered.
But it's impossible from the chart to tell you a specific moment or words that touched it off.
Now you know the situation from what's been written, hopefully it will be enough for you to clarify what type of relationship you will have in the future with her.
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Unread 06-11-2020, 10:36 PM
WisdomJoy WisdomJoy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
If you ask about her thoughts of you, we can look at the chart and see contacts between you two, and how they are, but if you ask what was the specific thing that touched it off, we can't answer that with a horary.
If you ask, Was she mad at me when I said this specific thing, it can be answered.
But it's impossible from the chart to tell you a specific moment or words that touched it off.
Now you know the situation from what's been written, hopefully it will be enough for you to clarify what type of relationship you will have in the future with her.
Yea, I know. I wasn’t actually trying to pinpoint it in the chart, I was trying to pinpoint it in my head and give you all more info and context. I was very intentional about asking how she feels about me and not whether or not she thinks she’s better than me. I know I asked a couple people but I really felt like it was coming from something else other than her just thinking she’s great and I’m not, if that makes sense.

Thank you all your help with this. I think the moon being void is interesting because I was never going to take any action with it anyway, as Ouranos mentioned, talking about it helped. It helps me more than anything to continue to trust my instincts. If my gut says something is wrong, it normally is.

Thank you again all,
WJ

Last edited by WisdomJoy; 06-12-2020 at 03:11 AM.
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Unread 06-12-2020, 01:25 AM
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Re: Q about a friend: her thoughts of me

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Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
7th to me makes more sense, she's your friend that you have a one on one relationship, you relate to each other, not amongst.
I think we can say that WJ and her friend relate to each other, one-to-one, as friends. Just like my father and I are one-to-one in a house 4 way, and my child and I are one-to-one in a house 5 way. And WJ wants to know whether they're still on the same page or what, which was exactly Lilly's question. Lilly describes how two friends can bicker and argue when things don't work out. It apparently gets quite personal, and it can still be an 11th house matter.

In fact, Lilly engages the house 11 for general "love" questions, i.e. If the one do love the other or not? (CA, 459, London:1659) If we think about it, what gets more one-to-one than love?

In short, I don't see why House 11 must be diminished into passing acquaintance or acquaintance in a group. I respect your choice of House 7, totally fine with that. At the same time, it's worth noting that House 11 can be used (as has been in an established tradition) for even a personal friend one cares quite deeply about.

Amelia
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