Hi all! Can some answer my question about co rulers?

Frisiangal · Feb 20, 2017

Cupid Arrow said:
Hi everyone

I'm new to astrology however I'm seeing holes in my chart. So I decided to maybe look at classic rulerships. For example: My 3rd is ruled by Aquarius, and Aquarius as a co ruler Uranus. I only learned modern rulers so how would I substitute Saturn as ruling my 3H along with Uranus? Do I look at the aspects or do I substitute Uranus aspects for Saturn?Switch them.. Or blend, what do I do?

Thanks for your reply.

Over the years I've become rather a non-conformist to much of astrology's rules and regulations, always personally questioning their validity, reach, if that is all there is, and/or whether there is more that can be further understood. :smile:

A strictly personal view from being brought up with the modern (holistic) approach, with a passion for the healing side of astrology.
'Issues' an individual faces too often shows harsh aspects with the outer planets. Why would this be when they are so easily accepted as being part of positive/negative character traits? Maybe because their meaning is not yet totally understood and therefore not fully integrated into one's character. An individual experiences that everything happens 'to' him and is not instigated 'by' him/herself. This seems to be the difference between acting through Moon's subconsciously automatic feelings and Sun's conscious awareness. The modern sign rulerships (can only) act detrimentally until self awareness is reached.

'Cause breeds effect' of manifested life is typically Saturn, the last included planet of trad. astrology teaching. I've therefore come to consider that it's the traditional planets and their sign rulerships (without taking in further trad. concepts) that are more significant (providing clues) whenever and wherever negative Moon feelings take precedence over, and inhibit Sun awareness from occuring. Natal Sun doesn't get a look in.

When an individual 'begins to see the light', (s)he could be said to become aware that circumstances regarding one's life can change, can be seen and done differently....Uranus making an appearance? Neptune can then dissolve old habits (Moon), whereby Pluto bring about the necessity of transformation of the individiual's way of life. Only then can the modern rulerships positively act with, and eventually replace the traditional concepts of their signs.

In the case of a 3rd house with Aquarius on the cusp, we're thinking (literally!) in terms of a FIXED sign mentality regarding communication in general relationships. Look where Saturn is to see how this manifests in life. Can an individual mentally take, accept, and learn from what is communicated? OR; does Uranus as modern ruler Aquarius function by seeing situations in an entirely different context to everyone else? What kind of aspects do both planets make? Is Sun or Moon stronger?

I have a square Sun/Neptune and that aspect is pretty spot on

.

How this manifests would depend upon whether Sun is ahead of, or behind Neptune. There would be issues around the concepts of Neptune. Maybe Jupiter is still more significant?

A lot of information can be gathered from such aspects alone. Putting it altogether is the puzzle. :smile:

Jadi · Feb 20, 2017

Cupid Arrow said:
I don't use Vedic and I guess he sensed that so he didn't mention it, plus this isn't under the Vedic astrology forum. I personally am sceptical when it comes to vedic considering it changes the ASC. I know that I am a Sag rising but in Vedic, I'm Scorpio rising. An astrologer I respect on Twitter mentioned Vedic is accurate in love compatibility and home life but she leans towards western astrology instead..

Let me tell you a little secret... you can use Vedic methodology with Western astrology. I was mentioning it because knowledge is power, so you should never rule out any perspective.

Cupid Arrow · Feb 20, 2017

muchacho said:
Modernist approach usually means only using modern rulers. Using both traditional rulers and modern rules as co-rulers would be a hybrid approach.

Yes, I know, but I wanted to know if the book was traditional. If you know a book that uses the hybrid approach please do tell?

Cupid Arrow · Feb 20, 2017

Frisiangal said:
Over the years I've become rather a non-conformist to much of astrology's rules and regulations, always personally questioning their validity, reach, if that is all there is, and/or whether there is more that can be further understood.

A strictly personal view from being brought up with the modern (holistic) approach, with a passion for the healing side of astrology.
'Issues' an individual faces too often shows harsh aspects with the outer planets. Why would this be when they are so easily accepted as being part of positive/negative character traits? Maybe because their meaning is not yet totally understood and therefore not fully integrated into one's character. An individual experiences that everything happens 'to' him and is not instigated 'by' him/herself. This seems to be the difference between acting through Moon's subconsciously automatic feelings and Sun's conscious awareness. The modern sign rulerships (can only) act detrimentally until self awareness is reached.

'Cause breeds effect' of manifested life is typically Saturn, the last included planet of trad. astrology teaching. I've therefore come to consider that it's the traditional planets and their sign rulerships (without taking in further trad. concepts) that are more significant (providing clues) whenever and wherever negative Moon feelings take precedence over, and inhibit Sun awareness from occuring. Natal Sun doesn't get a look in.

When an individual 'begins to see the light', (s)he could be said to become aware that circumstances regarding one's life can change, can be seen and done differently....Uranus making an appearance? Neptune can then dissolve old habits (Moon), whereby Pluto bring about the necessity of transformation of the individiual's way of life. Only then can the modern rulerships positively act with, and eventually replace the traditional concepts of their signs.

In the case of a 3rd house with Aquarius on the cusp, we're thinking (literally!) in terms of a FIXED sign mentality regarding communication in general relationships. Look where Saturn is to see how this manifests in life. Can an individual mentally take, accept, and learn from what is communicated? OR; does Uranus as modern ruler Aquarius function by seeing situations in an entirely different context to everyone else? What kind of aspects do both planets make? Is Sun or Moon stronger?

.

How this manifests would depend upon whether Sun is ahead of, or behind Neptune. There would be issues around the concepts of Neptune. Maybe Jupiter is still more significant?

A lot of information can be gathered from such aspects alone. Putting it altogether is the puzzle.

Neptune is in the 1H and my sun is in the 10H. Uranus and Jupiter don't connect but Jupiter and Saturn do.
My Sun and Moon are equally strong I believe because of where they are in my chart. Moon is in its own house and is in the 8H. I had someone look at my chart here and they were spot on with using co-rulers. 3rd ruled by Saturn and Uranus and my Moon sq Saturn shows the strain between my sibling and I.
So I think using co-rulers to my chart is the best way to go.

Cupid Arrow · Feb 20, 2017

dr. farr said:
No-Carter (although a Modernist) used only the traditional dispositors ("rulers"); he did however mention that Uranus could be considered along with Saturn for Aquarius, and Neptune along with Jupiter for Pisces.

Being an eclectic-or "hybrid" (or as some purists have called me, a "mongrel"-a tropicalist using a mixture of Traditional and Modernist, with some of the techniques used in Vedic as well-but not using the sidereal zodiac. although definitely using stars-here's what I do when considering dispositorship ("rulers/co-rulers") of Scorpio, Aquarius and Pisces:

-I'll choose the traditional dispositor ("ruler") UNLESS that planet is posited in the sign of its fall, detriment, is combust (within 5 degrees of the Sun), is conjunct or parallel the South Node, or is in a pitted degree.
-If the traditional dispositor ("ruler") is in one of the above situations (positions), then I will use the MODERN dispositor ("ruler") as significator for that sign (unless the Modern planet is also in one of the above situations)
-if BOTH the traditional dispositor ("ruler") AND the Modern dispositor ("ruler") are in one of the negative situations mentioned above, then I revert (as a default) to use of the traditional dispositor ("ruler") as my choice.

This eclectic method has "worked" very well for me...

I haven't learned fully on dispositors yet. I haven't deeply learned, but I hope to learn more in depth. So I don't quite understand. As far as Jupiter ruling my 4H, I dont have plenty of siblings.. Sun/Neptune is pretty spot on. Father was absent, but it doesn't quit fit ruling the 4H, I'm not sure...

Cupid Arrow · Feb 20, 2017

Jadi said:
Let me tell you a little secret... you can use Vedic methodology with Western astrology. I was mentioning it because knowledge is power, so you should never rule out any perspective.

I know but I don't like what the chart looks like lol! and I don't know what is valid in vedic. Perhaps I would look into it with love compatibility/mundane but I want to stick to what I'm learning first. I'm skeptical because it gave me a Scorpio rising and I know I'm a Sag rising. What do you use vedic, in compatibility? What part of vedic as proved true to you?

Jadi · Feb 21, 2017

Cupid Arrow said:
I know but I don't like what the chart looks like lol! and I don't know what is valid in vedic. Perhaps I would look into it with love compatibility/mundane but I want to stick to what I'm learning first. I'm skeptical because it gave me a Scorpio rising and I know I'm a Sag rising. What do you use vedic, in compatibility? What part of vedic as proved true to you?

You are confused about astrological terminology it seems :smile:

There are two zodiacs: The sidereal and the tropical zodiac, sidereal is generally used by Vedic astrologers and the tropical is used by Western astrologers. However, there are also Western astrologers that use the sidereal zodiac and there are Vedic astrologers as well that use the tropical zodiac. So when I say that some rules apply in the vedic system I'm not necessarily referring to the sidereal zodiac. It's a methodology based on a cultural background that may or may not apply to both zodiac systems.

The best way to understand this concept is to do your own research: https://www.google.nl/?gws_rd=ssl#q=difference+tropical+and+sidereal+zodiac

Which one I use? I use all astrological methods there are out there... all mixed together.

Cupid Arrow · Feb 23, 2017

Jadi said:
You are confused about astrological terminology it seems There are two zodiacs: The sidereal and the tropical zodiac, sidereal is generally used by Vedic astrologers and the tropical is used by Western astrologers. However, there are also Western astrologer that use the sidereal zodiac and there are Vedic astrologers as well that use the tropical zodiac. So when I say that some rules apply in the vedic system I'm not necessarily referring to the sidereal zodiac. It's a methodology based on a cultural background that may or may not apply to both zodiac systems.

The best way to understand this concept is to do your own research: https://www.google.nl/?gws_rd=ssl#q=difference+tropical+and+sidereal+zodiac

Which one I use? I use all astrological methods there are out there... all mixed together.

I am aware that sideral and tropical. I know that you can use different house looks. And I am aware that you can apply Vedic and Western, however I chose not to because it gave me a Scorpio Asc, perhaps I was to hard in my decision to not look toward Vedic astrology. However, when trying to learn Vedic, I do not like the squares, if I can find a book or resources that use Vedic technique's to a Western tropical chart wheel, then maybe I will invest my time in learning Vedic but right now, as a newbie I am learning western. The chart wheel is appealing to me. Lol! Maybe I shouldnt be so hard, but if you want to provide me with authors or sites that combine western tropical chart wheel with Vedic, cool.

Since you use Vedic, what techniques have proven true to you?

Cupid Arrow · Mar 4, 2017

moonris3 said:
Ugh, the thing is, why do you need to fill the holes in your chart? If there are holes you should leave them empty.
Idk!
Anyway Aquarius rulers are Uranus, Saturn and Neptune. Neptune is exalted, that's its stronger position. You might want to look at it too

HaHa, thats a joke but where did you get your info about Neptune ruling Aquarius?

Cupid Arrow · Mar 6, 2017

moonris3 said:
Italian tradition. I made a blog to translate this tradition, because this stuff was censored in here as soon as it was published, the 70's. Now all major astrologers consider it valid, here. Even psychology applies such discourses regularly. But no wonder it is never been translated into English, it would mean to put in doubt some basic things we've taken for granted... that's not easy to do. Here it was a mess

It's very mathematical anyway, each planet has 3 positions, that makes perfect sense, no? Except Sun and Moon (domiciled in Leo/Cancer and exalted in Aries/Pisce)..but they've always been special , and notice that if you exalt the Moon in Pisces then it will occupy the same place it had when it was in Cancer, that is, BEFORE the Sun, not after, like in Taurus case.
This applies to all the other planets too, Mercury is exalted in Scorpio, not in Virgo. Why would Virgo have 2 Mercury?

If you look for it there's only my blog I'm afraid and it's still very clumsy, but I tried to explain this all.

Sorry for the interruption

Well, I dont know how Neptune would fit for Aquarius.. What characteristics would Neptune add? I dont know if its correct planet... But I think I will just stick to Saturn and Uranus..

Arena · Mar 7, 2017

Cupid Arrow said:
You said Modernist astrology perspective, but does it deal with co-rulers? Im trying to intergrate co rulers into undetstanding my BC. Thanks for the response.

Hey CupidArrow
Did you ever try just dropping the rulership altogether while reading your natal?
You can read so much from just the most important stuff, other than rulership.
Start reading planets that are closest to angles, those within 3° from angles are most important.
Then read tight aspects to your Sun and Moon and read the tightest aspects in the chart, those that are within 1° orb will be having the strongest expression, then read up to 3° orb.

Cupid Arrow · Mar 7, 2017

Arena said:
Hey CupidArrow
Did you ever try just dropping the rulership altogether while reading your natal?
You can read so much from just the most important stuff, other than rulership.
Start reading planets that are closest to angles, those within 3° from angles are most important.
Then read tight aspects to your Sun and Moon and read the tightest aspects in the chart, those that are within 1° orb will be having the strongest expression, then read up to 3° orb.

Hi Athena, well I have in the beginning when I started learning astrology. I'm still new ofcourse and still need help but I noticed somethings are not adding up so that is why I am looking at co-rulers.

Cupid Arrow · Mar 7, 2017

moonris3 said:
Indeed, rulerships should be dropped since you reference the wrong ones anyway. Astrology works even without those. Eh.

Neptune in Aquarius weird? lol. Isn't Aquarius the weirdest sign in the Zodiac? Isn't Neptune's the weirdest planet, all about change and inspiration? Ah ok.

I think Aquarius is is the most rebellious and unconventional. Neptune is weird and confusing. I have it in the first and it has made me a wanderer. But I do find all planets have good and bad influences. I don't think I reference the wrong ones. Saturn was classically assigned to Aquarius. And you said Neptune, which I never heard of. At.All. lol

Cupid Arrow · Mar 7, 2017

Jadi said:
You are confused about astrological terminology it seems There are two zodiacs: The sidereal and the tropical zodiac, sidereal is generally used by Vedic astrologers and the tropical is used by Western astrologers. However, there are also Western astrologers that use the sidereal zodiac and there are Vedic astrologers as well that use the tropical zodiac. So when I say that some rules apply in the vedic system I'm not necessarily referring to the sidereal zodiac. It's a methodology based on a cultural background that may or may not apply to both zodiac systems.

The best way to understand this concept is to do your own research: https://www.google.nl/?gws_rd=ssl#q=difference+tropical+and+sidereal+zodiac

Which one I use? I use all astrological methods there are out there... all mixed together.

You said you use all three, in what way? I have a Sagittarius rising, but in Sideral, I'm given a Scorpio, how would you read my chart?

muchacho · Mar 8, 2017

moonris3 said:
Indeed, rulerships should be dropped since you reference the wrong ones anyway. Astrology works even without those. Eh.

Modern western astrology, you mean? :tongue:

JUPITERASC · Mar 8, 2017

moonris3 said:
How can you make a distinction like that?
The sky didn't change from 3000 years ago,

That's the old fashioned mindset of Modernists
in fact the sky HAS changed from 3000 years ago
but many seem to have not noticed

JUPITERASC · Mar 8, 2017

moonris3 said:
the fact "modern astrology" uses more planets
doesn't mean they weren't there already 3000 years ago... uh.

That's a distraction from the issue
which is
Modernist astrology cannot add new planets to the dignities table
without rendering the dignities table nonsensical

JUPITERASC · Mar 8, 2017

moonris3 said:
there are many more things to consider; this doesn't mean they don't count.
It just means you can leave them out,
because if you apply them wrongly
then it's better to not apply those at all.

Outer planets effects are undocumented
so those are currently guesswork
in any event their transits are so slow
their effects are potentially related to historical cycles

JUPITERASC · Mar 8, 2017

moonris3 said:
I didn't say "classical astrology" says Neptune is exalted in Aquarius
because
I don't even know what classical astrology is,

Classical astrology uses "THE SEVEN VISIBLE PLANETS"
i.e.
Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn
as well as Fixed Stars, eclipses, Arabic Parts
Specifically it relies on Ptolemaic aspects
sextile, trine, square, opposition
and uses the conjunction albeit technically the conjunction is not an aspect

JUPITERASC · Mar 8, 2017

moonris3 said:
and if you mean tradition... uuh.
Neptune was discovered in the 1800
so I doubt "classical astrology" knew of it.

Classical astrology "may or may not have known of Neptune"
that is not the issue
the issue is
that classical astrology uses only "THE VISIBLE PLANETS"

hence
the outers are irrelevant in classical astrology

Hi all! Can some answer my question about co rulers?

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