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  #101  
Unread 08-02-2020, 08:42 AM
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Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
It's a pointless factoid. Why even bring it up?
waybread brought it up in page 2 when she mentioned covid19 as a factor in the election in her anti-Trump rant.

And you didn't shut her down then - so its part of the discussion now.

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  #102  
Unread 08-02-2020, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
waybread brought it up in page 2 when she mentioned covid19 as a factor in the election in her anti-Trump rant.

And you didn't shut her down then - so its part of the discussion now.
So, you have no opinions about Electoral College?
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  #103  
Unread 08-02-2020, 09:09 AM
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Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

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So, you have no opinions about Electoral College?
I do. I believe it sounds like a reasonable system for a federal republic.
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  #104  
Unread 08-02-2020, 05:06 PM
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Smile Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

I'm saying, keep the Electoral College system as it is.

However, there is an argument to be made that the ONLY elected office that truly represents "We, the People", meaning ALL the voters in the Nation as a whole, is the Presidency. Which is why the Presidency should be decided by ALL the voters, regardless of what States they live in, by National Popular-vote.

The States have the Legislature to represent them: The Senate represents them equally, with 2 Senators per State regardless of population. And, although the House gives more representation to the more populated States, the greater number of less populated States, when added together, assures that the more populated States don't necessarily control the House.

Also, using the National Popular-vote to elect the President, would ensure that no voter is effectively disenfranchised from electing a President just because of living in a State that gives all of its Electoral votes to the candidate who's not that voter's choice.

And, using the National Popular-vote to elect the President would ensure that the candidates give equal attention to ALL the voters in ALL the States, instead of "writing off" the voters in States where it's already certain that the Electoral vote is already known.

Last edited by david starling; 08-02-2020 at 05:19 PM.
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  #105  
Unread 08-02-2020, 06:38 PM
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Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

The thread completely off-track now with all the fighting about Covid-19. wtf, how did that happen?

The virus came from Wuhan. Ccommunist China did not react quickly or tell the rest of the world that a very contagious, respiratory virus had erupted. They allowed international travel & the spreading of the disease began. By Jan, 2020, the world was finally aware of what was coming with the China virus but nobody predicted how contagious it is & it spread like wildfire.

Italy, which has a very larger older population had thousands of elderly deaths for they weren't prepared or even knew what was happening until it was too late. World Health Organization did not warn the world and chose to support China and their lies.
Europe has been hit very hard, U.K. has the highest death rate there. Much higher that the U.S. per million. France, Italy, Belgium higher too. Many of these nations dead were elderly and sick and probably would have died but nobody talking about the natural death rate throughout the world. No country was prepared for this plague but each country have adapted with the resources and the health system that they have. U.S. has done the most testing and so they have a high number of recorded infections. Other countries have higher rates of infection but no testing. Everyone might get it at some point, herd immunity will kick in and we will carry on like we do after a bad flu season.

Dr. Fauci is not a god and doesn't have all the answers but he's on the Left and gets the support of the Media and the Democrats. They have classified him as the 'good guy' and Trump as the 'bad guy'.
Fauci is a part of the Task Force but they have held him up to be in charge of the pandemic but he's not. He's a paid medical consultant who is very often clueless like the rest of us about the course that the pandemic is taking. He & nobody else recommended wearing masks. Not until recently.


In the March 2020 60 Minutes clip, Fauci said: “Right now in the United States people should not be walking around with masks … You should think of healthcare providers who are needing them and the people who are ill.”


He was wrong
of course and in April, 2020 the CDC gave the following press release.

April 2020, the CDC recommended that everyone wear cloth masks in public to help slow the spread of COVID-19. That recommendation changed because of studies that found even people without coronavirus symptoms, but who may still have the disease, could transmit the virus through close interactions with others, especially through speaking, coughing, and sneezing:


For many living in urban cities and fixed incomes with no jobs, buying a mask is impossible. How effective are scarfs and bandanas?

Bottom line, no medical personnel should be exalted as having all the answers and no data can be fully understood in this early stage. However, the statisticians have consensus that the death rate is extremely low but higher in aged homes, high density, urban areas and with certain minorities. & people with underlying illnesses.





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So, you have no opinions about Electoral College?

Last edited by blackbery; 08-02-2020 at 07:07 PM.
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  #106  
Unread 08-02-2020, 07:03 PM
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Smile Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

Blackbery, what about my post concerning arguments in favor of the Popular-vote for electing Presidents? Any rebuttals?
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  #107  
Unread 08-02-2020, 07:09 PM
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Smile Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

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Originally Posted by blackbery View Post
The thread completely off-track now with all the fighting about Covid-19. wtf, how did that happen?

The virus came from Wuhan. Ccommunist China did not react quickly or tell the rest of the world that a very contagious, respiratory virus had erupted. They allowed international travel & the spreading of the disease began. By Jan, 2020, the world was finally aware of what was coming with the China virus but nobody predicted how contagious it is & it spread like wildfire.

Italy, which has a very larger older population had thousands of elderly deaths for they weren't prepared or even knew what was happening until it was too late. World Health Organization did not warn the world and chose to support China and their lies.
Europe has been hit very hard, U.K. has the highest death rate there. Much higher that the U.S. per million. France, Italy, Belgium higher too. Many of these nations dead were elderly and sick and probably would have died but nobody talking about the natural death rate throughout the world. No country was prepared for this plague but each country have adapted with the resources and the health system that they have. U.S. has done the most testing and so they have a high number of recorded infections. Other countries have higher rates of infection but no testing. Everyone might get it at some point, herd immunity will kick in and we will carry on like we do after a bad flu season.

Dr. Fauci is not a god and doesn't have all the answers but he's on the Left and gets the support of the Media and the Democrats. They have classified him as the 'good guy' and Trump as the 'bad guy'.
Fauci is a part of the Task Force but they have held him up to be in charge of the pandemic but he's not. He's a paid medical consultant who is very often clueless like the rest of us about the course that the pandemic is taking. He & nobody else recommended wearing masks. Not until recently.


In the March 2020 60 Minutes clip, Fauci said: “Right now in the United States people should not be walking around with masks … You should think of healthcare providers who are needing them and the people who are ill.”


He was wrong
of course and in April, 2020 the CDC gave the following press release.

April 2020, the CDC recommended that everyone wear cloth masks in public to help slow the spread of COVID-19. That recommendation changed because of studies that found even people without coronavirus symptoms, but who may still have the disease, could transmit the virus through close interactions with others, especially through speaking, coughing, and sneezing:


For many living in urban cities and fixed incomes with no jobs, buying a mask is impossible. How effective are scarfs and bandanas?

Bottom line, no medical personnel should be exalted as having all the answers and no data can be fully understood in this early stage. However, the statisticians have consensus that the death rate is extremely low but higher in aged homes, high density, urban areas and with certain minorities.
Dr. Fauci was first hired by Ronald Reagan, and is now working for Donald Trump. How is he a Left-winger?
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  #108  
Unread 08-02-2020, 07:32 PM
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Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

You believe Fauci is a Republican who wants to see Trump re-elected.

This is the medical man who has made numerous wrong statements about the virus but won't admit it. He and the Left turn to attack Trump instead who is not a medical person. The citizens should not be looking to the President for health issues, that's what the Task Force was created for. Yet, Fauci has used Trump's own non-medical tweets to politicize the virus issue.
Fauci should never have politicized the medical Covid-19 crisis and I would have fired him a long time ago if I were the President. Replaced him with a non-partisan female or male doctor who stuck to helping the citizens of the U.S.
navigate through the most chaotic time of the country since the Civil War.

Fauci was the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), a post he took in 1984 and holds to this day.

Fauci always pushing the vaccine cure and you have to wonder why. He and the Liberal Media have wiped out any discussion of treatment other than a vaccine. Is he in collaboration with the Gates Foundation which has strong ties with NIAID and will benefit financially from a vaccine?
If not, he certainly is in direct opposition to the Trump WH based on partisan-politics and that does not help the average U.S. citizen who doesn't know if the schools are going to be open, when the economies will open and many other important concerns.

Fauci has created controversy and chaos instead of calmness and concern.











Fau



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Dr. Fauci was first hired by Ronald Reagan, and is now working for Donald Trump. How is he a Left-winger?
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  #109  
Unread 08-02-2020, 07:34 PM
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Smile Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbery View Post
You believe Fauci is a Republican who wants to see Trump re-elected.

This is the medical man who has made numerous wrong statements about the virus but won't admit it. He and the Left turn to attack Trump instead who is not a medical person. The citizens should not be looking to the President for health issues, that's what the Task Force was created for. Yet, Fauci has used Trump's own non-medical tweets to politicize the virus issue.
Fauci should never have politicized the medical Covid-19 crisis and I would have fired him a long time ago if I were the President. Replaced him with a non-partisan female or male doctor who stuck to helping the citizens of the U.S.
navigate through the most chaotic time of the country since the Civil War.

Fauci was the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), a post he took in 1984 and holds to this day.

Fauci always pushing the vaccine cure and you have to wonder why. He and the Liberal Media have wiped out any discussion of treatment other than a vaccine. Is he in collaboration with the Gates Foundation which has strong ties with NIAID and will benefit financially from a vaccine?
If not, he certainly is in direct opposition to the Trump WH based on partisan-politics and that does not help the average U.S. citizen who doesn't know if the schools are going to be open, when the economies will open and many other important concerns.

Fauci has created controversy and chaos instead of calmness and concern.











Fau
Why hasn't Trump fired him?
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  #110  
Unread 08-02-2020, 07:46 PM
blackbery blackbery is offline
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Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

He would have except the Liberal Media would use the Covid-19 crisis to once again turn Fauci into the 'good' vs 'evil' Trump.


iAirborne: How The Liberal Media Weaponized The Coronavirus Against Donald Trump


Trump says he likes Dr. Fauci personally but doesn't agree with his statements that schools and the economy should be locked down until a vaccine is discovered.

Trump could have fired him after his wrong statements about masks and then lying about it. Once he's re-elected, Fauci will be gone, replaced with a non-political doctor.

Fauci let America down, hindering the public health response and giving the U.S. both the highest coronavirus case count in the world. Simply put, Fauci lied about whether masks were helpful in slowing the spread of the virus.



btw. Dr. Fauci had to be pushed and prodded by the ACT UP organization to actually acknowledge HIV/AIDS because he was dragging his feet to do anything other than follow Reagan's guidelines. He's not a god you know.

‘We Loved Each Other’: Fauci Recalls Larry Kramer, Friend and Nemesis

In public, the activist berated the infectious disease expert for federal inaction on AIDS. But their affection lasted decades and changed the course of the epidemic.






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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Why hasn't Trump fired him?

Last edited by blackbery; 08-02-2020 at 07:56 PM.
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  #111  
Unread 08-02-2020, 08:23 PM
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Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

This link came from another thread and if you watch it, you can see for yourself how Dr.Fauci supports the Left Democrats. He won't admit that protesters should be banned from gathering in large crowds but has said that nobody can go to places of faith, work or school because they will spread the disease.

He is clearly biased against Trump and should be removed.


https://youtu.be/66Jhq-zGV88






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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Dr. Fauci was first hired by Ronald Reagan, and is now working for Donald Trump. How is he a Left-winger?
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  #112  
Unread 08-02-2020, 08:42 PM
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Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

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Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
This small fragment of your post is indicative of why your giant wall-text is just a strawman designed to deflect the conversation, because the facts are against you. You keep talking about infection rates, which isn't my point.

I'm not talking about the rate of infenction -

I'm talking about the death rate by region -

In Florida there are 480.000 infected individuals, and around 7.000 deaths. This means the florida death rate for covid19 is 1,45%.

In New York there are 420.000 infected individuals, and around 32.000 deaths. This means the new york death rate for covid19 is 7,6%

Florida has a lower death rate and lower death number, despite a higher number infected individuals. The NY state performance and response in regards to covid19 is pathetic compared to Florida.

-- Your entire post in an attempt to strawman my argument to imply I'm talking about infected individuals. I am not. This is why I lol at you.
If you're LOL-ing me, I'd say you're merely showcasing your inability to come to terms with logic and evidence.

Dirius, you still don't get it. My "giant wall of text" (say what?? Was it too difficult for you?) was an earnest attempt to explain things to you so that you could understand what is going on. Either it was too complex for you, or you just didn't want to get it. Or even read it, apparently

This may come as a surprise to you, but people first have to become infected with coronavirus before they can die of it.

Then we're not dealing with a given date as a static moment in time so much as with an ongoing pandemic that claims new patients and fatalities on an ongoing basis. It's like the nation is on a moving escalator, not on a stationary platform. You have to look at trajectories.

It's like: sure, Dirius. More deaths as of today in NYC. Gotcha. But we're not done with this yet.

So let's do the arithmetic. The greater NYC area, a populous and densely populated urban region, was one of the first to get hit with CV-19 last spring, before medical science had learned enough about how it spread. They didn't realize how far it traveled through airborne particles because the research hadn't been done yet. They didn't have the demographic data that we have now, about which cases were most likely to be fatal. You had a governor understandably desperate to free up ICU beds for the flood of incoming patients, which the hospitals couldn't handle. The hospitals did not have sufficient PPE, respirators, and so on, to deal with it. NYC further has many people in a high-risk category. Which also took the medical experts a while to figure out.

Then the increase in cases has been, if not exponential, at least nowhere near logistical.

Diseases can take time to spread. This is basic epidemiology. And let's look at how rapidly cases and deaths are spreading in Florida. Further, a state hit more recently has all kinds of infrastructure set up now that they wouldn't have had, were the ground zero, any more than NYC did last spring. They're the beneficiaries of NYC's experience in a tragic sort of way.

But bottom line, Dirius, is that rural areas regardless of whether their predominant politics are red, blue, or purple tend to have slower and lower rates of infections-- and deaths.
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  #113  
Unread 08-02-2020, 08:45 PM
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Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

Here, Dirius: read this.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...-day-1.5047424

Florida's CV-19 death rate is escalating rapidly.

Look at its trajectory.
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  #114  
Unread 08-02-2020, 08:57 PM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbery View Post
He would have except the Liberal Media would use the Covid-19 crisis to once again turn Fauci into the 'good' vs 'evil' Trump.


iAirborne: How The Liberal Media Weaponized The Coronavirus Against Donald Trump


Trump says he likes Dr. Fauci personally but doesn't agree with his statements that schools and the economy should be locked down until a vaccine is discovered.

Trump could have fired him after his wrong statements about masks and then lying about it. Once he's re-elected, Fauci will be gone, replaced with a non-political doctor.

Fauci let America down, hindering the public health response and giving the U.S. both the highest coronavirus case count in the world. Simply put, Fauci lied about whether masks were helpful in slowing the spread of the virus.



btw. Dr. Fauci had to be pushed and prodded by the ACT UP organization to actually acknowledge HIV/AIDS because he was dragging his feet to do anything other than follow Reagan's guidelines. He's not a god you know.

‘We Loved Each Other’: Fauci Recalls Larry Kramer, Friend and Nemesis

In public, the activist berated the infectious disease expert for federal inaction on AIDS. But their affection lasted decades and changed the course of the epidemic.
So what if Trump loses the Election? Things will eventually get back to normal, with nothing especially terrible happening. I'm not seeing why we need Trump for that.

Jupiter in Aquarius will be a change for the better.

Last edited by david starling; 08-02-2020 at 09:19 PM.
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  #115  
Unread 08-02-2020, 08:59 PM
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Smile Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

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Originally Posted by blackbery View Post
This link came from another thread and if you watch it, you can see for yourself how Dr.Fauci supports the Left Democrats. He won't admit that protesters should be banned from gathering in large crowds but has said that nobody can go to places of faith, work or school because they will spread the disease.

He is clearly biased against Trump and should be removed.


https://youtu.be/66Jhq-zGV88
Trump's AFRAID to fire him??? He's the "You're fired!" guy. Just look at all of those he's already fired from his administration.

Last edited by david starling; 08-02-2020 at 09:36 PM.
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  #116  
Unread 08-02-2020, 09:32 PM
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Smile Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

At least half of the enthusiasm of the protesters and agitators is about the Trump presidency. The protests will subside with him gone from office.
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  #117  
Unread 08-02-2020, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
waybread brought it up in page 2 when she mentioned covid19 as a factor in the election in her anti-Trump rant.

And you didn't shut her down then - so its part of the discussion now.
Funny. Sounds like that "opened the door" term in Court.
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  #118  
Unread 08-02-2020, 10:06 PM
blackbery blackbery is offline
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Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

I don't understand why you are so gleeful that florida death rate has increased in the past few days. Do you want them to catch up to NJ and NY which have the highest death rates in the country? Here's a graph of the death rates and Florida listed at above 15.
What is the celebrating of deaths due to Covid-19 about?

Do you really want more people to die so you can try to beat Trump in Nov?
He's going to win regardless and I'm troubled by the Left Democrats salivating at the thought of more deaths. I don't even recognize the DNC anymore, they are the death cult now.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...s-us-by-state/





Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Here, Dirius: read this.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/corona...-day-1.5047424

Florida's CV-19 death rate is escalating rapidly.

Look at its trajectory.

Last edited by blackbery; 08-02-2020 at 10:11 PM.
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  #119  
Unread 08-02-2020, 10:09 PM
blackbery blackbery is offline
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Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

I'm happy you finally admit that BLM,Antifa and the thugs and domestic terrorists are part of the Democrat Party.


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At least half of the enthusiasm of the protesters and agitators is about the Trump presidency. The protests will subside with him gone from office.
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  #120  
Unread 08-02-2020, 10:19 PM
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I don't understand why you are so gleeful that florida death rate has increased in the past few days. Do you want them to catch up to NJ and NY which have the highest death rates in the country? Here's a graph of the death rates and Florida listed at above 15.
What is the celebrating of deaths due to Covid-19 about?

Do you really want more people to die so you can try to beat Trump in Nov?
He's going to win regardless and I'm troubled by the Left Democrats salivating at the thought of more deaths. I don't even recognize the DNC anymore, they are the death cult now.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...s-us-by-state/
I wasn't gleeful. Just pointing out to Dirius that Covid-19 isn't political, as he seemed to be asserting.

I just want the d*mn virus to go away!

Don't be so sure Trump won't lose. If he does, you're setting yourself up for a lot of disappointment.
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  #121  
Unread 08-02-2020, 10:22 PM
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Seems like the Republicans started it, blaming Blue State governors for not controlling the pandemic.
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  #122  
Unread 08-02-2020, 10:31 PM
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Blackbery, do you really think that Trump can win the national Popular-vote? He doesn't seem to be even trying to expand his base, just preaching to the choir.

Last edited by david starling; 08-02-2020 at 10:34 PM.
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  #123  
Unread 08-02-2020, 10:43 PM
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Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Then we're not dealing with a given date as a static moment in time so much as with an ongoing pandemic that claims new patients and fatalities on an ongoing basis. It's like the nation is on a moving escalator, not on a stationary platform. You have to look at trajectories.

It's like: sure, Dirius. More deaths as of today in NYC. Gotcha. But we're not done with this yet.

So let's do the arithmetic. The greater NYC area, a populous and densely populated urban region, was one of the first to get hit with CV-19 last spring, before medical science had learned enough about how it spread. They didn't realize how far it traveled through airborne particles because the research hadn't been done yet. They didn't have the demographic data that we have now, about which cases were most likely to be fatal. You had a governor understandably desperate to free up ICU beds for the flood of incoming patients, which the hospitals couldn't handle. The hospitals did not have sufficient PPE, respirators, and so on, to deal with it. NYC further has many people in a high-risk category. Which also took the medical experts a while to figure out.

Then the increase in cases has been, if not exponential, at least nowhere near logistical.

Diseases can take time to spread. This is basic epidemiology. And let's look at how rapidly cases and deaths are spreading in Florida. Further, a state hit more recently has all kinds of infrastructure set up now that they wouldn't have had, were the ground zero, any more than NYC did last spring. They're the beneficiaries of NYC's experience in a tragic sort of way.
So now you've changed your position to the "its not over yet". Guess you just can't go against actual data huh?

Data shows the death rate was much higher in NYC because Cuomo (democrat) was useless in handling the pandemic. As it is now, all the evidence shows the blue states have been performing much worse than red states. Lets also review some of the majestic blunders from NY state:

- Inefficient bureaucratic delays when purchasing medical/protective supplies.
- Not closing schools or business after the pandemic had begun its spread (took them one month to begin their lockdown).
- Sending infected covid19 patients into nursing homes, killing over 6000 people.

"Dr. Frieden said that if the state and city had adopted widespread social-distancing measures a week or two earlier, including closing schools, stores and restaurants, then the estimated death toll from the outbreak might have been reduced by 50 to 80 percent."
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/n...se-delays.html
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Unread 08-02-2020, 11:34 PM
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Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
California and Florida are, by and large, MUCH healthier places to live than New York and New Jersey.

The reason for more deaths is about the immune systems of those who contracted the virus.

The hospitals in New York and New Jersey were completely overwhelmed by the number of patients with weak immune systems.

These deaths are not something Trump-supporters should be gloating about!
I agree in the main, David. Of course, there are healthy and rural parts of NY and NJ, as well as parts of CA and FL that are not healthy-- or with a lot of retirees who, by virtue of their age, are high-risk.

One wonders, had Republicans been running NY and NJ if their CV-19 patients would have walked home with a spring in their steps and a song in their heart.

I get the impression that Dirius feels smug or even happy about all of those tragic losses of life in NY and NJ when he believes it helps him score an ideological point.

I think most voters care less about ideology than they do about staying healthy. They also want political leaders who can respond quickly to a crisis.

Just now,Floridians' approval rating of Florida governor Ron DeSantis (R) is nose-diving.
https://www.heraldtribune.com/news/2...virus-response

In contrast, New Yorkers' approval rating of New York governor Andrew Cuomo (D) is climbing.

https://www.rochesterfirst.com/news/...irus-outbreak/

Only 38% of Texans (a deep red state) now approve of the job being done by Texas governor Abbott.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/new...D-15446539.php

Most of us get that the economy won't recover until the coronavirus is tamed.
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Last edited by waybread; 08-02-2020 at 11:37 PM.
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Unread 08-02-2020, 11:40 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is online now
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Re: Should the Electoral College Be Eliminated?

"I get the impression that Dirius feels smug or even happy about all of those tragic losses of life in NY and NJ when he believes it helps him score an ideological point."

Sorry, this comment is not worthy of you, Waybread.
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