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  #1  
Unread 12-13-2016, 03:46 AM
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Question Mercury square Pluto: Penetrating insight or Obsessive Paranoia

I know first hand from having this aspect (Leo Mercury in 11th square Scorp Pluto in the 1st), that it can give you laser insight and perceptions - especially when it comes to other people's motives, but it can cause you to be overly suspicious, obsessive and even paranoid if left unchecked by another influence.
Anyone else has this aspect? How does it play out in your life?

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Unread 12-13-2016, 07:20 AM
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Re: Mercury square Pluto: Penetrating insight or Obsessive Paranoia

I have Mercury square Pluto, natally.

MERCURY @ 18 Scorpio, conjunct the Desc @ 21 Taurus.

Squaring So Node @ 17 Leo, PLUTO @ 22 Leo, Lilith @ 23 Leo


Mercury in Scorpio Square Pluto in Leo in the 4th, conjunct the South Node



Mercury/Pluto = the art of persuasion. But when in a tense aspect, it can create conflict with others, and the urge to persuade others by any means necessary, including excessive zeal or over exuberance, or by manipulation or deceitful means.
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Unread 12-13-2016, 07:29 AM
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Re: Mercury square Pluto: Penetrating insight or Obsessive Paranoia

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Originally Posted by Hermeshadesluna View Post
I know first hand from having this aspect (Leo Mercury in 11th square Scorp Pluto in the 1st), that it can give you laser insight and perceptions - especially when it comes to other people's motives, but it can cause you to be overly suspicious, obsessive and even paranoid if left unchecked by another influence.
Anyone else has this aspect? How does it play out in your life?
I am pretty suspicious, by nature. But I am also not suspicious enough at times. I can make a hasty decision that someone is trustworthy, and be swept away by their BS...

Back in my younger, wilder years, in my 20's, I was a bit obsessive.

I would like someone and overlook big red flags, and throw myself into their life, impulsively. Kind of wanting to be immersed in their life instead of mine, I suppose. Sometimes it made for a great adventure, other times, more of a living nightmare...

I have a T-Square to that Pluto in my 4th. So it took awhile to find my bearings and get some emotional balance. I was a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, so I was acting out and being a bit crazy during my late teens and early 20's.


My Saturn return, in Libra in my 6th was a GODSEND. I righted the ship, met my husband, whom I am still married to, and created a stable, positive life.
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Unread 12-13-2016, 07:39 AM
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Re: Mercury square Pluto: Penetrating insight or Obsessive Paranoia

In general, Mercury square Pluto is a fascinating combination. It is like trying to blend Gemini/Scorpio energy.

You have the quick witted Mercurial energy: mutable, light hearted, making congenial conversation to establish friendships and networking connections ...


combined with heavy Plutonian emotional energy, plumbing the depths, looking in hidden corners, trying to uncover deep dark secrets in order to gain some leverage...



These two energies can cause a bit of friction if others think we are being intrusive or dishonest or manipulative in any way....
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Unread 12-13-2016, 10:27 AM
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Re: Mercury square Pluto: Penetrating insight or Obsessive Paranoia

I have mars and mercury in aquarius square scorpio pluto in the 8th....

I would say that I am paranoid but I'm also a pisces and scorpio moon so.....
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Unread 12-13-2016, 11:07 AM
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Re: Mercury square Pluto: Penetrating insight or Obsessive Paranoia

Mercury square Pluto used positively could make a good detective or investigator, also great for research, psychoanalysis, probing the depth of anything...

I think for it to play out in a obsessive paranoid manner there would have to be other aspects, such as an afflicted moon, or some hard Neptune aspects - delusions and not seeing clearly are negative Neptune expressions...

Last edited by Bina; 12-13-2016 at 11:59 AM.
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Unread 08-12-2017, 05:42 PM
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Re: Mercury square Pluto: Penetrating insight or Obsessive Paranoia

I just realized having pluto square ascendant is the most greatest aspect.
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Unread 08-12-2017, 06:40 PM
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Re: Mercury square Pluto: Penetrating insight or Obsessive Paranoia

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Originally Posted by Bina View Post
Mercury square Pluto used positively could make a good detective or investigator, also great for research, psychoanalysis, probing the depth of anything...

I think for it to play out in a obsessive paranoid manner there would have to be other aspects, such as an afflicted moon, or some hard Neptune aspects - delusions and not seeing clearly are negative Neptune expressions...
Well, a square is an afflicted aspect, so Merc square Pluto, in and of itself, can bring on some obsessiveness.
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Unread 08-12-2017, 08:41 PM
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Re: Mercury square Pluto: Penetrating insight or Obsessive Paranoia

I have Mercury sesquiquadrate Pluto with an orb of about 40'. I pick up a lot from people's communication that they don't intend to say and may not even be aware of in some cases. And I try to ensure that I'm not giving away anything I don't want to, and sometimes spot clues about things I'm not aware of in my communications. I sometimes feel I could truly pull the rug from under someone with long-lasting and highly destructive effect if I were to let rip, but feel immune to a similar onslaught because I can't help but notice the ego games that my mind plays out, and so it would be difficult for anyone to tell me anything new about myself. I can be obsessive about pursuing an idea, and - often after a bit of a struggle with letting go - ruthless in pruning ideas back or getting rid of them altogether if they start to seem fanciful or pretentious. I started writing a book in 2012 which I hope will be a ground-breaking and unifying partial reformulation of western astrology, but still haven't finished reincarnating the ideas and obsessing over the articulation of them. And due to paranoia about the ideas being put out there in a half-baked fashion by someone else before I finish the book, I haven't discussed the ideas with anyone except one close friend who is also into astrology.

So I think the aspect is strong for me - perhaps because Pluto is angular (IC) Mercury is in the 8th, and my (chart ruling) Moon is in Scorpio.

Best wishes

Miquar
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Unread 08-12-2017, 08:54 PM
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Re: Mercury square Pluto: Penetrating insight or Obsessive Paranoia

I just remembered something else about how this aspect plays out for me. Mercury and Pluto are both on my Venus/Mars midpoint and quite a few times I've known that people were going to fall for one another before they seemed to know themselves, and in some cases before they even met.
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Unread 08-12-2017, 09:13 PM
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Re: Mercury square Pluto: Penetrating insight or Obsessive Paranoia

Moon opposite Pluto.
Mercury square Pluto.

There is a very like for like theme with both of these placements.

Moon opposite Pluto gives a person the ability to cut to the core without leaving a trace.

See link: http://darkstarastrology.com/moon-op...-square-pluto/

Mercury square Pluto gives a person a deep insight into another persons mental faculties.
There is a tinge of obsessiveness but in actuality it is just the mind digging for more until it is satisfied it has found what it needed to, in a good case another aspect would help which would be the intuition side which would aid the gut feeling along with the depth of vision into others, without it you can probe for something that is not truly there.

See link: http://theastrologyplacemembership.c...-square-pluto/
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Unread 08-12-2017, 10:50 PM
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Re: Mercury square Pluto: Penetrating insight or Obsessive Paranoia

Quote:
Originally Posted by miquar View Post
I have Mercury sesquiquadrate Pluto with an orb of about 40'. I pick up a lot from people's communication that they don't intend to say and may not even be aware of in some cases. And I try to ensure that I'm not giving away anything I don't want to, and sometimes spot clues about things I'm not aware of in my communications. I sometimes feel I could truly pull the rug from under someone with long-lasting and highly destructive effect if I were to let rip, but feel immune to a similar onslaught because I can't help but notice the ego games that my mind plays out, and so it would be difficult for anyone to tell me anything new about myself. I can be obsessive about pursuing an idea, and - often after a bit of a struggle with letting go - ruthless in pruning ideas back or getting rid of them altogether if they start to seem fanciful or pretentious. I started writing a book in 2012 which I hope will be a ground-breaking and unifying partial reformulation of western astrology, but still haven't finished reincarnating the ideas and obsessing over the articulation of them. And due to paranoia about the ideas being put out there in a half-baked fashion by someone else before I finish the book, I haven't discussed the ideas with anyone except one close friend who is also into astrology.

So I think the aspect is strong for me - perhaps because Pluto is angular (IC) Mercury is in the 8th, and my (chart ruling) Moon is in Scorpio.

Best wishes

Miquar
The sesqq is a really underrated aspect. Many astrologers ignore it like I used to do. But I have found it to be quite a powerful aspect. Maybe because I have quite a few of them... 7 if you count angles and Chiron...


It is like an underlying, simmering problem, needing a solution, but there is always bigger fish to fry so the annoying underlying issues remain...

Mine involve Moon/Venus/Mars/Jupiter/Pluto/Ascendant/Chiron...


good explanation here:

http://blog.virgovault.com/2011/04/1...ions-part-two/
There seems to be three main themes that come out of the Sesquiquadrate: Adolescence & Maturity, Abnormal Different Ability, and Unaccepted & Unusual Awareness.

And the overall theme (for native and other), to put quite succinctly, for this aspect is: Unaccepted difference causes an unusual disconnect – basically, ignorance, a turning off — rebellious ignorance.

And this ignorance causes unpleasant disturbance in the native and others.

The native pushes away from assisted maturation and society’s demands for socially correct behaviour (even if that behaviour is considered unethical or limits self-expression to the native). The solution is to accept help from others and consider what society is telling you to do to cause success and find solutions that don’t go against personal beliefs, values, and desires.

Last edited by katydid; 08-12-2017 at 10:56 PM.
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Unread 08-16-2017, 03:22 AM
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Re: Mercury square Pluto: Penetrating insight or Obsessive Paranoia

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Originally Posted by katydid View Post
In general, Mercury square Pluto is a fascinating combination. It is like trying to blend Gemini/Scorpio energy.

You have the quick witted Mercurial energy: mutable, light hearted, making congenial conversation to establish friendships and networking connections ...


combined with heavy Plutonian emotional energy, plumbing the depths, looking in hidden corners, trying to uncover deep dark secrets in order to gain some leverage...



These two energies can cause a bit of friction if others think we are being intrusive or dishonest or manipulative in any way....
I found this comment fascinating, Katydid! My Aussie man (sun sign Scorp) has Pluto in the 12th house, a few minutes from being conjunct his Virgo ascendant, squaring a Jupiter/Mercury conjunct in Sag in 4th house, opposite his Gemini moon in the 10th. To say he is brilliant would be a bit of an understatement. He's a wonderful teacher (University level) and has such intellectual curiosity!! He researches EVERYTHING. You can't bullsh*t this guy.....LOL. And heaven forbid if he catches a student plagiarizing an essay.....let's just say I wouldn't want to be that student. It's a really interesting combination, the Mercurial and Plutonian, but he's heavy on the Plutonian. Which I love.
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Unread 08-16-2017, 10:28 AM
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Re: Mercury square Pluto: Penetrating insight or Obsessive Paranoia

I have Aquarius Mercury in the 8th H square Pluto in Scorpio placed in the 5th H. I would say that I am obsessive but it helps when I channel this energy on 5th House activities (In my case art) & create something. In other words its creativity or madness.
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Unread 08-18-2017, 04:23 AM
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Re: Mercury square Pluto: Penetrating insight or Obsessive Paranoia

Man this is thread is interesting...

I've got a t-square betwix mercury, pluto and moon, the planets each conjunct either acs., desc. or ic.

So mercury at 4 degrees virgo conjuncting a 3 degree virgo asc.

that mercury opposes 3 degree moon in pisces

mercury and moon square 3 degree pluto in sagittarius

When I meet new people, I am to quick to judge whether or not I trust someone, if not, I either voice it to someone close to me (who in turn says, eh I dunno) or keep it to myself and eventually the untrustworthy person's tricks/betrayal comes to light, it's pretty much my tried and true method at this point

to be honest I did recently end a relationship where I was so blinded by my relationship with the person that I ignored all my usual (sorta strict) thoughts/insights for relationships with people and what (I've deemed, lol) is cool/not cool for people to do to each other or me...only just read the link from CancerEvolve and the whole moon square pluto domineering mother thing is soo true (I love her but still), this is one of those interpretations that really asserts faith in astrology...lol

I've never been able to find specific information on a t-square between these planets so thanks a lot for this thread ^-^

Also, CancerEvolve, those were great links!

Last edited by zipadee; 08-18-2017 at 04:37 AM.
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Unread 09-15-2017, 07:59 AM
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Re: Mercury square Pluto: Penetrating insight or Obsessive Paranoia

I have the Mercury-Pluto square, I am a case of an individual with the aspect that does play out with paranoia within it, more-so than the psychological detective probing ability. Not to say the probing ability is non existent, it actually is more prominent now, but while younger it was more the paranoia at play.

I have Mercury at 29 degrees Capricorn square Pluto-Libra. I also have Moon square Pluto, Moon square Saturn, Mercury opposite Moon, Mercury square Saturn, and Venus square Pluto.

I can not currently remember the orbs on all of this. Though Mercury square Pluto probably is in a tighter orb.

I say I showed the paranoia side of the aspect when younger because I was medically diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic. There is no clear indicators as far as I am concerned in my chart to look at if one were to look for that itself in a chart. That is to say that no, I do not think the Mercury-Pluto square is a cause for my schizophrenia. It's not.

But, yes in my case the paranoia plays a part. It is always there at the back of my mind.

As I am older and am on a well working medication for my illness, the probing is able to shine through a bit more naturally. I find I am quite well at determining the motives of others. I am able to discern who to trust and who not to. When I tell a loved one not to trust someone, down the line they come to find out I was right. They find out the hard way. They could have trusted my instincts.

It can get really bad. Mostly because I am able to see through people almost as if their thoughts and intentions were blatantly visible to the naked eye. It can be hurtful. It is often when I know someone will betray me before they do it. And I have also been able to determine exactly what it is they will do.

But, it is better to forgive and move on or try to, than to dwell.


With the Moon involved with the Mercury-Pluto square- it is a T-Square after all, there is a lot of emotionalism to my personality. I have been trying to work through that. It has been difficult.

Anyway, that is how the Mercury-Pluto square plays out for me. It isn't all of how it affects me for sure, but it is a start.
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Unread 04-30-2020, 10:42 AM
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Re: Mercury square Pluto: Penetrating insight or Obsessive Paranoia

positive - I can perceive things others cannot. I can put things together in a way that leads to something of a conclusion. similar to how a detective does, research and investigation. I am from the school of self educated, I actually am thankful I have some type of aspect between these two planets as if I didn't I would be languishing in a state of ignorance on certain matters I cared about all my life. I never had a teacher or mentor ever in life to teach me the right way to do things, a real positive father figure to learn from was absent in my upbringing. i'm still a work in progress and there is many things I don't know but without these two planets working together it might be hard for me to find out anything for myself. I can spot a person who is on a path to self destruction from a mile away. for example a person who seeks to destroy others, I can see their potential to ultimately face some form of justice (libra) and I have spotted these people time and time again. people with a lack of fairness in dealing with others or treating them with a lack of respect and courtesy, my pluto in libra is laser focused on seeing how this can be their own undoing when interacting with others. I can give out some sage advice on a situation that might prove detrimental to others. I can spot how a pattern of behaviour can result in a type of outcome for an individual. I try to give advice and help, I have the potential to do that, but it's often not taken seriously. which does often disappoint me, because if my insights had been considered the bad outcome may have been avoided. I would say my flashes of insight often come from my mercury trine uranus. that helps.

neutral - I like subjects to do with conspiracy theories, the occult, metaphysical studies, psychological ideas, banned ideas and theories, anything someone pioneered in the field of science and philosophy that was banned is of immediate interest. I often want to uncover any and ALL types of hidden agendas and find the meaning and reasons why this ultimately became suppressed. similar in a way to politics and political ideas. my view on politics is that there is no correct side, the left nor the right is not entirely correct, there are truthes in both sides and lies in both sides. my pluto in libra tends to not take sides as this ignores true justice and truth whereas everyone else treats politics like their football team, they ignore all the bad things and lies they might be spreading just to stay aligned to their team. they don't consume media that can give them a balanced view and weigh things up and investigate both sides opinions and ideas. QUESTION EVERYTHING! this middle ground of critical of both sides wins me no friends. I consider people who work in a similar way, like julian assange to be incredibly courageous heroes.

negative - I am paranoid. particularly with others, it is VERY hard for me to just put faith in people 100% that they are not going to hurt me. I do my very best not to try to drive them away and not to let any manifestations of this fear and paranoia control others, I have too much neptune, I do not want to manifest thoughts into actions. my saturn conjunct mars knows that thoughts are very different to actions and I reign in any attempts to act upon my paranoia as much as I can. but I cannot let go and trust that people will ultimately have a positive response to me. this is the aspect of the loner. there have been times when my suspicions have been bang on and true and I have faced real problems like harassment (venus conjunct sun asc), I have documented evidence of it. but I am also aware there are times when my paranoia has been turned out to be false and a person has told me that they did not have bad intentions towards me. I have a lot of paranoid thoughts which to an average person would probably seem totally unreasonable and "crazy". pluto square mercury is more than likely a large contributor to my paranoid personality disorder. I can deal with being alone, I have come to terms with that. what I find more annoying is lack of acceptance other people have for my life or personality. we are told we live in a tolerant society, I don't believe we do. I have never been accepted for who I am. more than anything I just want to be allowed to be myself.

this aspect is the tightest one in my chart, exact to the degree. on the positive side, I think cancer - libra is probably easier to manage than leo - scorpio or virgo - sag. I think libra - cap might have a slightly easier time with this aspect too. leo scorpio is particularly difficult. leo is very ego driven, if mercury is dominant or emphasised in leo it can lead to an ego that can blind them to any other opinions other than their own. a complete disregard for others opinions. square that to pluto in scorpio. pluto is a power house in it's own sign, it's so strong here. dependant on the whole chart has the potential to be very tough between those signs.
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Unread 05-01-2020, 09:50 PM
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I have this aspect also... it's very hard to deal with. I had obsessive OCD when I was younger, very very bad. It was so bad it almost took over my life...
I also have a moon square Pluto. And try dealing with that...try dealing with both of them. It's a nightmare. I am suspicious of people. I usually turn out to be right, as it's been said.
When I became aware of it, it became much better. Just by being aware, you can change the outcome of it, of things. I have a lot of crazy aspects in my chart. Moon sq Pluto, Merc. sq Pluto, Jupiter opposite ascendant, Uranus square Jupiter square ascendant T-square. I'd say the pluto and Jupiter aspects suck the hardest and the most. Just because they are so powerful and influential. People with a lot of "tension" in their chart often get stuck and don't go anywhere for a long time or they self-destruct. That's been my experience. And we have an extremely hard time emotionally, a whole lotta turmoil.

I actually have mercury in Leo square Pluto in Scorpio. I have the exact aspect you are talking about. And...also having that Jupiter inversion probably makes me impervious to others, more than I know or I am willing to admit. I cant help it, in any case.
I am who I am. I Do wonder why that I have all of these difficult aspects though..

Last edited by Eric traveller; 05-03-2020 at 11:41 PM.
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Unread 05-04-2020, 01:19 AM
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Re: Mercury square Pluto: Penetrating insight or Obsessive Paranoia

I have mercury square pluto, a moon square Pluto, a negatively aspected Jupiter with five red lasers shooting out of it... an afflicted (exalted) Mars in Capricorn. An afflicted exalted Mars is the worst thing that anyone can have. I have Mars square Venus.
A Chiron conjunct Lilith in the tenth house, right along the MC.
And on top of it all, a Capricorn moon.



I may as well have been flayed alive every single day of my life,because that's what this feels like , every day.
Cant think of any more painful aspects than this. I'm sure I'm missing some too. Neptune and Uranus in 4th. Oh, Saturn square Sun can't forget that one.

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