jamiescott
Banned
Re: Jesus' Birth Chart
Now that sounds very interesting, next you'll say he had kids.
Talking about Jesus life
- Thread starter jamiescott
- Start date
BobZemco
Well-known member
Re: Jesus' Birth Chart
I'm an investigator, so I deal in facts, not irrational beliefs. I don't see any evidence that points one way or another toward children, but the evidence that he survived crucifixion is quite compelling.
We know as fact from Roman records that you could be crucified from sunrise to midday, midday to sunset or sunrise to sunset, or until you die.
We also know that people survived crucifixions 3 and 4 times, and many others and were crucified more than once, with the record holder apparently being a guy who was crucified 6 times.
We know from the excavations of mass burial pits around Golgotha that no one was nailed to a cross. There's several hundred bodies and not one stinking one of them shows signs of being nailed. That's consistent with history as the Romans didn't start doing that until 4th Century CE and only in cases of mass crucifixions.
The mechanics of crucifixion is that gravity pulls you forward, and your natural inclination is to resist, at which time your arm and chest muscles tire and collapse and you are pulled forward and can't breathe. You might read that people get "crushed" to death at concerts and futboll matches, they're actually pressed so tight against the person to the front that their chest cavity cannot expand, they lose consciousness and die. That's how crucifixion works.
Physiology is very important here, as someone who is barrel-chested would never die of crucifixion. People with different metabolisms would also stand a better chance.
Much is made of "breaking the legs" and that Jesus' legs were not broken. That has to do with the mechanics of crucifixion. They used to cut everybody down, then start dragging the bodies away to the burial pit. Somebody lying on their back got a few gulps of air, came to, realized where they were and had the presence of mind to jump up and run away to freedom. The startled guards and slaves then started the practice of "breaking legs" to keep that from happening.
In the case of Jesus, the texts usually incorrectly translate the passage as "vinegar-water." It's actually bitter-water, and bitter things are alkyloid. What grows naturally in the region, is an akyloid AND was used as a pain-killer for 7,000 years before the birth of Jesus?
Yes, opium.
Put some opiates in the water, sop it up with a sponge on a stick and let Jesus lick/suck on it and he's in La-La Land with a reduced respiratory rate, reduced heart rate and no pain, so he could have easily survived.
It appears to be a coup attempt by the Essenes. Jesus and Judas are members of the Essene Sect and they have a plot where Jesus will "die" then "come back to life" and everyone will flock to the outcast Essenes and they'll have all the power and the Pharisees and Sadducees will be outcasts with no power. That's how Jesus could "predict" his "death."
The plot back-fired because the Essenes failed to understand the nature of people. Jesus is taken down off the cross and spirited away where he's given a potion made from the root of the Nightshade plant, which is a very powerful stimulant used for 7,000 years before the birth of Jesus (in fact that is the anti-dote for nerve agent the military uses).
Then Jesus does some really bizarre things. He disguises himself and walks around spying on people's conversations. He has to disguise himself because he's not dead.
He realizes the revolution is a failure and that his life is in danger, but at one point he removes his disguise to reveal himself to two people he recognizes as allies who won't harm him, and they have a few words and he parts.
Then you have the incident where he returns to the burial tomb and finds Mary Magdalene there. He's disguised so she doesn't recognize him, but they talk for a few minutes then he removes his disguise and reveals himself to her. She attempts to hug him, but he tells her "do not touch me for I have not yet ascended" but I think he was trying to prevent her from discovering that he's not really dead. It is isn't that he wants to intentionally lie to her, I think it's that he's trying to protect her. What she doesn't know won't hurt her and protects him.
Christians make a big deal out of the "47 post-resurrection appearances" but if you study them carefully, it's just smoke and mirrors.
He only appears before people he knows and trusts. He never appears before anyone he doesn't trust or before anyone who is important. For example, he never appears before the Pharisees or the Sadducees.
He's pretty smart. If he appears before the Pharisees, one of them will pick up a sword or spear and run him through and then he really would be dead.
Realizing the coup attempt failed, and his life is in danger, he flees with his mother, Mary Magdalene, a few disciples and a few other confidants.
Saul of Tarsus is a Jew who works as a bounty hunter for the Romans. He suspects something is rotten and picks up the trail and chases Jesus down in Damascus, where the supposedly non-violent peace-loving Jesus blinds him.
If Jesus is a god, how could one man strike so much fear and terror in his heart? If Jesus wasn't a god and wasn't dead, that one man could turn his life into a night-mare. I'm sure Jesus "blinded" Saul with lots of money as a bribe to leave him and his entourage alone. Saul realizes the power of the myth and leaves Jesus alone, changes his name to Paul and starts getting a piece of the power pie.
Jesus & Co continue on to India where they live out their lives, probably in a little area where all the towns inexplicably have Hebrew names, all the people have Hebrew names and they speak a Hebrew dialect.
Peter is the real traitor. He discovers the plot and threatens to reveal it, Judas finds out and the two confront each other where Peter murders Judas then claims Judas committed suicide.
Meanwhile, James, the brother of Jesus, goes to Rome and starts a church there, and Peter chases him down and tries to murder him. A startled James flees Rome headed where?
Duh, to India, where his mother, his brother Jesus, Mary Magdalene and others are located. James makes it to India and is just a few weeks travel away from Jesus when he gets killed.
The gospels are terrible, with several thousands contradictions. They can't really get their story straight, but there are several consistent themes that run through it. It just a matter of sorting it out.
The gospel of John was the last written and least circulated, so it was edited a number of times to delete passages and add new ones, mostly to justify the hierachial structure of the church. So for example, it was necessary to add the story of "Doubting Thomas" so that the gospel of Thomas could be removed, since it would be a problem justifying the existence of a pope who controlled all the churches.
jamiescott said:
I'm an investigator, so I deal in facts, not irrational beliefs. I don't see any evidence that points one way or another toward children, but the evidence that he survived crucifixion is quite compelling.
We know as fact from Roman records that you could be crucified from sunrise to midday, midday to sunset or sunrise to sunset, or until you die.
We also know that people survived crucifixions 3 and 4 times, and many others and were crucified more than once, with the record holder apparently being a guy who was crucified 6 times.
We know from the excavations of mass burial pits around Golgotha that no one was nailed to a cross. There's several hundred bodies and not one stinking one of them shows signs of being nailed. That's consistent with history as the Romans didn't start doing that until 4th Century CE and only in cases of mass crucifixions.
The mechanics of crucifixion is that gravity pulls you forward, and your natural inclination is to resist, at which time your arm and chest muscles tire and collapse and you are pulled forward and can't breathe. You might read that people get "crushed" to death at concerts and futboll matches, they're actually pressed so tight against the person to the front that their chest cavity cannot expand, they lose consciousness and die. That's how crucifixion works.
Physiology is very important here, as someone who is barrel-chested would never die of crucifixion. People with different metabolisms would also stand a better chance.
Much is made of "breaking the legs" and that Jesus' legs were not broken. That has to do with the mechanics of crucifixion. They used to cut everybody down, then start dragging the bodies away to the burial pit. Somebody lying on their back got a few gulps of air, came to, realized where they were and had the presence of mind to jump up and run away to freedom. The startled guards and slaves then started the practice of "breaking legs" to keep that from happening.
In the case of Jesus, the texts usually incorrectly translate the passage as "vinegar-water." It's actually bitter-water, and bitter things are alkyloid. What grows naturally in the region, is an akyloid AND was used as a pain-killer for 7,000 years before the birth of Jesus?
Yes, opium.
Put some opiates in the water, sop it up with a sponge on a stick and let Jesus lick/suck on it and he's in La-La Land with a reduced respiratory rate, reduced heart rate and no pain, so he could have easily survived.
It appears to be a coup attempt by the Essenes. Jesus and Judas are members of the Essene Sect and they have a plot where Jesus will "die" then "come back to life" and everyone will flock to the outcast Essenes and they'll have all the power and the Pharisees and Sadducees will be outcasts with no power. That's how Jesus could "predict" his "death."
The plot back-fired because the Essenes failed to understand the nature of people. Jesus is taken down off the cross and spirited away where he's given a potion made from the root of the Nightshade plant, which is a very powerful stimulant used for 7,000 years before the birth of Jesus (in fact that is the anti-dote for nerve agent the military uses).
Then Jesus does some really bizarre things. He disguises himself and walks around spying on people's conversations. He has to disguise himself because he's not dead.
He realizes the revolution is a failure and that his life is in danger, but at one point he removes his disguise to reveal himself to two people he recognizes as allies who won't harm him, and they have a few words and he parts.
Then you have the incident where he returns to the burial tomb and finds Mary Magdalene there. He's disguised so she doesn't recognize him, but they talk for a few minutes then he removes his disguise and reveals himself to her. She attempts to hug him, but he tells her "do not touch me for I have not yet ascended" but I think he was trying to prevent her from discovering that he's not really dead. It is isn't that he wants to intentionally lie to her, I think it's that he's trying to protect her. What she doesn't know won't hurt her and protects him.
Christians make a big deal out of the "47 post-resurrection appearances" but if you study them carefully, it's just smoke and mirrors.
He only appears before people he knows and trusts. He never appears before anyone he doesn't trust or before anyone who is important. For example, he never appears before the Pharisees or the Sadducees.
He's pretty smart. If he appears before the Pharisees, one of them will pick up a sword or spear and run him through and then he really would be dead.
Realizing the coup attempt failed, and his life is in danger, he flees with his mother, Mary Magdalene, a few disciples and a few other confidants.
Saul of Tarsus is a Jew who works as a bounty hunter for the Romans. He suspects something is rotten and picks up the trail and chases Jesus down in Damascus, where the supposedly non-violent peace-loving Jesus blinds him.
If Jesus is a god, how could one man strike so much fear and terror in his heart? If Jesus wasn't a god and wasn't dead, that one man could turn his life into a night-mare. I'm sure Jesus "blinded" Saul with lots of money as a bribe to leave him and his entourage alone. Saul realizes the power of the myth and leaves Jesus alone, changes his name to Paul and starts getting a piece of the power pie.
Jesus & Co continue on to India where they live out their lives, probably in a little area where all the towns inexplicably have Hebrew names, all the people have Hebrew names and they speak a Hebrew dialect.
Peter is the real traitor. He discovers the plot and threatens to reveal it, Judas finds out and the two confront each other where Peter murders Judas then claims Judas committed suicide.
Meanwhile, James, the brother of Jesus, goes to Rome and starts a church there, and Peter chases him down and tries to murder him. A startled James flees Rome headed where?
Duh, to India, where his mother, his brother Jesus, Mary Magdalene and others are located. James makes it to India and is just a few weeks travel away from Jesus when he gets killed.
The gospels are terrible, with several thousands contradictions. They can't really get their story straight, but there are several consistent themes that run through it. It just a matter of sorting it out.
The gospel of John was the last written and least circulated, so it was edited a number of times to delete passages and add new ones, mostly to justify the hierachial structure of the church. So for example, it was necessary to add the story of "Doubting Thomas" so that the gospel of Thomas could be removed, since it would be a problem justifying the existence of a pope who controlled all the churches.
jamiescott
Banned
Re: Jesus' Birth Chart
Not sure about your investigations here. Sure Jesus went to India, But Mary Magdelene? Her trail leads to in the opposite direction.
Andonis
Well-known member
Re: Jesus' Birth Chart
Bob your story is interesting and sounds like you could write a novel. But your account are hardly facts relating to Jesus they are ficticious. The story you describe can be interesting for any criminal/someone who survived crucifiction. I think your data are ficticious as they do not relate to Jesus your story is in your mind not from scripts. About Jesus there is the bible. Even if you cannot explain or agree with some historical aspects within the bible it does not mean jesus was not who people believe he was-God. About your jesus story there is absolutely no facts. I go along that some people may have survived crucifiction. But there is no evidence that what you describe was Jesus. In your next book consider that he did 'plastic surgery'.
Bob your story is interesting and sounds like you could write a novel. But your account are hardly facts relating to Jesus they are ficticious. The story you describe can be interesting for any criminal/someone who survived crucifiction. I think your data are ficticious as they do not relate to Jesus your story is in your mind not from scripts. About Jesus there is the bible. Even if you cannot explain or agree with some historical aspects within the bible it does not mean jesus was not who people believe he was-God. About your jesus story there is absolutely no facts. I go along that some people may have survived crucifiction. But there is no evidence that what you describe was Jesus. In your next book consider that he did 'plastic surgery'.
Last edited:
skywatcher1221
Well-known member
Re: Jesus' Birth Chart
We also know that people survived crucifixions 3 and 4 times, and many others and were crucified more than once, with the record holder apparently being a guy who was crucified 6 times.
We know from the excavations of mass burial pits around Golgotha that no one was nailed to a cross. There's several hundred bodies and not one stinking one of them shows signs of being nailed. That's consistent with history as the Romans didn't start doing that until 4th Century CE and only in cases of mass crucifixions.
There is at least one skeleton that shows signs of nailing; the spike is still embedded in the foot. The reason there aren't more is because the Romans recycled the nails; they were hand-made and expensive, it was poor economics to dispose of them with the body. (That spike was left because it was badly bent during hammering and unsuitable for further use.)
In view of the lack of antibiotics during Ancient Times, it is unlikely anybody survived crucifixion, even if taken down from the cross. The infection would have killed them (victims were routinely scourged before execution so even if they weren't nailed, they were left with open wounds). The Jewish historian Josephus wrote about a man saved from the cross -- a rare enough event to warrant mention -- but the poor fellow died soon afterwards, killed by infection.
We also know that people survived crucifixions 3 and 4 times, and many others and were crucified more than once, with the record holder apparently being a guy who was crucified 6 times.
We know from the excavations of mass burial pits around Golgotha that no one was nailed to a cross. There's several hundred bodies and not one stinking one of them shows signs of being nailed. That's consistent with history as the Romans didn't start doing that until 4th Century CE and only in cases of mass crucifixions.
There is at least one skeleton that shows signs of nailing; the spike is still embedded in the foot. The reason there aren't more is because the Romans recycled the nails; they were hand-made and expensive, it was poor economics to dispose of them with the body. (That spike was left because it was badly bent during hammering and unsuitable for further use.)
In view of the lack of antibiotics during Ancient Times, it is unlikely anybody survived crucifixion, even if taken down from the cross. The infection would have killed them (victims were routinely scourged before execution so even if they weren't nailed, they were left with open wounds). The Jewish historian Josephus wrote about a man saved from the cross -- a rare enough event to warrant mention -- but the poor fellow died soon afterwards, killed by infection.
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jamiescott
Banned
Re: Jesus' Birth Chart
Adonis, you say
Adonis, you say
There are bits missing in your Bible - The bits written about Mary Magdalene kissing Jesus on the lips.
lillywhite
Active member
Re: Jesus' Birth Chart
From what I remember in Roman History it wasn't the nailing of the cross, gravity or dehydration that killed you in the crucifiction.
The arms were spread and flexed backwards over the center pole at an acute angle and tied or nailed at the wrist deliberately at the joint. It was the huge spike positioned between the anus and scrotum that, as weight of the body pulled and you became weaker and were unable to hold yourself up, slowly pierced your bowls and innards. Grewsome Romans.
Historical fact/Historical fiction. A little of both I should think Jamie.jamiescott said:
From what I remember in Roman History it wasn't the nailing of the cross, gravity or dehydration that killed you in the crucifiction.
The arms were spread and flexed backwards over the center pole at an acute angle and tied or nailed at the wrist deliberately at the joint. It was the huge spike positioned between the anus and scrotum that, as weight of the body pulled and you became weaker and were unable to hold yourself up, slowly pierced your bowls and innards. Grewsome Romans.
funkspunky
Banned
Re: Jesus' Birth Chart
So you would know?
