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  #926  
Unread 09-18-2018, 03:09 AM
ynnest ynnest is offline
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Re: Modern Astrology IS "Traditional"

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
I understand
clearly

incomprehensible paradigms are your preferred methodology

by the way
similarly

you are free to attach your meanings

on others words
even though many attachments contain incorrect conclusions


obviously 'correct astrology'

is

simply your opinion

You are the one who has incomprehensible paradigms as your preference jupiterasc since they can not hold ground against the Feather of truth. Just because people are playing with lego pieces doesn't automatically make it applicable on the the real world which is what many of the advocates of these models of thought believes their models does.

I know how astrology was created and its original purpose as I was there in the very beginning. My point with my posts is to Not choose lego models before the Truth which is why I emphasized the importance of aligning the creator of these paradigms which is our minds with the truth and the universal mind instead of lego models to create paradigms that are comprehensible.

Y

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  #927  
Unread 09-18-2018, 03:23 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Modern Astrology IS "Traditional"

Language, which a creation of the Mind, has its limitations when it comes to describing or explaining anything that is not of the Mind.
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  #928  
Unread 09-18-2018, 01:30 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology IS "Traditional"

Quote:
Originally Posted by ynnest View Post

I understand
people want to have a comprehendible paradigm to work from
but
I understand
clearly
incomprehensible paradigms are your preferred methodology
Quote:
Originally Posted by ynnest View Post

Everyone is free to attach their meanings on my words
even though many attachments contain incorrect conclusions.
by the way
similarly
you are free to attach your meanings
on others words
even though many attachments contain incorrect conclusions
Quote:
Originally Posted by ynnest View Post

The progressive mindset serves to create comprehensible paradigms based on truth
and not incomprehensible paradigms that don't logically hold together.
Correct astrology plays a major part in that process.
Y
obviously 'correct astrology'
is
simply your opinion
Quote:
Originally Posted by ynnest View Post

You are the one who has incomprehensible paradigms as your preference
jupiterasc since they can not hold ground against the Feather of truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ynnest View Post


Just because people are playing with lego pieces
doesn't automatically make it applicable on the the real world
which is what many of the advocates of these models of thought
believes their models does.





Quote:
Originally Posted by ynnest View Post

I know how astrology was created
and its original purpose
as I was there in the very beginning
Siriusly impressive
Quote:
Originally Posted by ynnest View Post

My point with my posts is to Not choose lego models before the Truth
which is why I emphasized the importance of aligning the creator of these paradigms
which is our minds with the truth and the universal mind
instead of lego models to create paradigms that are comprehensible.
Y
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  #929  
Unread 09-18-2018, 04:05 PM
muchacho muchacho is offline
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Re: Modern Astrology IS "Traditional"

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Is this on-line? Deborah Houlding has an essay at Skyscript on the order of the planets but how or why the terms got started escapes me. In contrast, the faces were a big simplification of the Egyptian decans that got Hellenized.
Not likely. And even less likely that it will be in English. If you're really interested send me a PM. I'll dig it up for you and give you the cliff notes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
I sometimes look at septiles (360/7) in a chart, and then I wonder how the 7th harmonic is interpreted in a Vedic system.
The D-7 chart is used for questions about children. It's basically an extension of the 5th house (or the 5th house on a higher level of reality). And in vedic astrology you can read a divisional chart like a normal chart, with dignities and aspects and such. However, if the question were about when someone will have children, you would normally just look at the 5th house and the 1st house (Lagna) of the D-7 chart and see what its rulers are and if there are any planets in those houses and what their conditions are.

But it is important to keep in mind that since the D-7 chart is a derived chart, it doesn't stand for itself, it has to be seen in the context of several other charts, namely the natal chart, the Moon chart (natal chart with Moon as ASC) and the Navamsa (D-9). So you basically look at (at least!) 4 different charts simultaneously if there's a pattern that is being repeated in all or at least in a couple of those charts.

It's a rather laborious endeavor but then again, if you do it the original traditional western way with all the different rulers for the 5th house, its lots and almuten, it's actually a similar procedure.
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  #930  
Unread 09-18-2018, 04:38 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology IS "Traditional"

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Doesn't seem to bother you, but I feel "trolled" when someone claims my version of Astrology can't possibly work because it violates some "basic principles" of Astrology ITSELF, instead of just those of another version. Clearly, naked-eye visibility is an important principle in Oddity's version, which is fine with me, as long as he doesn't extend it to all other versions. I've noticed that when I rebut a trolling remark, using facts and reasoning, I get accused of trolling!
Wikipedia:

"Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which the human ego defends itself against unconscious impulses or qualities by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others. For example, a person who is habitually rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude."
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  #931  
Unread 09-18-2018, 04:53 PM
muchacho muchacho is offline
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Re: Modern Astrology IS "Traditional"

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Well, the Trads (and you're a high-bred Trad yourself) are the Astrological historians of the community. I take what you know quite seriously, and appreciate the effort that goes into the research, even though I have to go my own way.
That seems to be an accurate observation. What I am missing in the neo-trad community is genuine self-confidence. What we have instead is appeal to authority wherever and whenever possible.
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  #932  
Unread 09-18-2018, 04:58 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Modern Astrology IS "Traditional"

Quote:
Originally Posted by muchacho View Post
That seems to be an accurate observation. What I am missing in the neo-trad community is genuine self-confidence. What we have instead is appeal to authority wherever and whenever possible.
Is this seriously an argument coming from a so-called ''Vedic'' astrologer?
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  #933  
Unread 09-18-2018, 05:02 PM
muchacho muchacho is offline
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Re: Modern Astrology IS "Traditional"

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Language, which a creation of the Mind, has its limitations when it comes to describing or explaining anything that is not of the Mind.
That's why you need symbols.
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  #934  
Unread 09-18-2018, 05:05 PM
muchacho muchacho is offline
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Re: Modern Astrology IS "Traditional"

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Is this seriously an argument coming from a so-called ''Vedic'' astrologer?
Straw man much?
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  #935  
Unread 09-18-2018, 05:08 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Modern Astrology IS "Traditional"

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Originally Posted by muchacho View Post
Straw man much?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_analogy
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  #936  
Unread 09-18-2018, 05:10 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology IS "Traditional"

The trads smile more
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  #937  
Unread 09-18-2018, 05:12 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Modern Astrology IS "Traditional"

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Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
The trads smile more
I see it as meme by this point. Someone should suggest to the mods to change ''smile'' with :jupiterasc:
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  #938  
Unread 09-18-2018, 05:14 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology IS "Traditional"

You should have been around a few years ago. We had a lot of fun aping Jupiter's sarcastic smiling whenever the opportunity presented itself.
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  #939  
Unread 09-18-2018, 06:44 PM
ynnest ynnest is offline
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Re: Modern Astrology IS "Traditional"

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
I understand
clearly
incomprehensible paradigms are your preferred methodology

by the way
similarly
you are free to attach your meanings
on others words
even though many attachments contain incorrect conclusions

obviously 'correct astrology'
is
simply your opinion









Siriusly impressive


The problem is the spiritual source I believe you are tuning into. I have come across this specific one many times and it always seems to emanate a trigger that serves to distort the truth on a collective level and slandering the one who puts it forth by misinterpreting their messages. It is many ways a guard system of the old world order.

Don't take it personally, I am not blaming you but the system itself.

Y
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  #940  
Unread 09-18-2018, 06:47 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Modern Astrology IS "Traditional"

Someone quickly find an exorcist for jupiterasc.
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  #941  
Unread 09-18-2018, 10:20 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology IS "Traditional"

Quote:
Originally Posted by ynnest View Post

The problem is
the spiritual source
I believe
you are tuning into.
I have come across

this specific one
many times
and it always seems to emanate a trigger
that serves to
distort the truth on a collective level
and slandering the one who puts it forth
by misinterpreting their messages.
It is many ways a guard system of the old world order.
Don't take it personally, I am not blaming you but the system itself.
Y

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  #942  
Unread 09-18-2018, 10:21 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology IS "Traditional"

Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post

You should have been around a few years ago.
We had a lot of fun aping Jupiter's sarcastic smiling
whenever the opportunity presented itself.
those were the days
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  #943  
Unread 09-18-2018, 10:37 PM
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Re: Modern Astrology IS "Traditional"

Quote:
Originally Posted by muchacho View Post

That seems to be an accurate observation.
What I am missing in the neo-trad community
is genuine self-confidence.
What we have instead is appeal to authority wherever and whenever possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cypocryphy View Post

Hey Muchacho. I have read every book there is.
Trust me. I'm not saying that to boast.
It's more of a shameful confession that shows my obsession and neglect for other potentially more important readings.
Name a book; I've read it.
Actually, what I'm looking here, and
you are a perfect candidate
because when you first came here you were and Ester Hicks fan
and you astrological knowledge was rudimentary.
But now I can see that you've made substantial improvements.
I think that's awesome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post

If we define traditional astrology
as the practice of self-identified traditional astrologers today
IF
Quote:
Originally Posted by muchacho View Post

Agreed. I would call that neo-traditional astrology though.
Neo- is a prefix from the ancient Greek word for young, neos.
Neo- is a combining form meaning “new,” “recent,” “revived,” “modified”
New and different
used in the formation of compound words: neo-Darwinism; Neolithic
neoorthodoxy; neophyte.
hence
"neo-traditional" is an obvious contradiction in terms
and clearly excludes "Neo-traditionalism" from our Traditional board
our traditional board
quite rightly
excludes the use of MODERN OUTERS
Jupiter and Saturn are the traditional outers
It's just that simple
Q.E.D.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post

then the scope of traditional astrology
does include the outers as supplementary data
for some practitioners.
It's just that simple.
obsessed with MODERN OUTERS
transparently designed
to include as traditional astrologers
those who
in an effort to force the use of MODERN OUTERS onto our traditional board
claim MODERN OUTERS = "supplementary data points"
whilst affirming obfuscatingly that Modern Astrology IS "Traditional"
Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

Old-fashioned astrologers refuse to admit there's a legitimate, new version of Astrology
the current torch-bearer of the ancient Tradition of Astrology.
Since Modern Astrology is of the line of that ancient Tradition, it is itself "traditional".
The Astrological lineage didn't end in 1700 A.C.E.
NEVERTHELESS
our traditional board excludes MODERN OUTERS
Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post

No denying the value of the old ways.
But the new has value as well.
traditional rules clearly state that members who wish to
explore a COMBINATION of traditional and modern ideas
should feel free to start a new thread
in an appropriate forum for further discussion.
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  #944  
Unread 09-18-2018, 11:31 PM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Modern Astrology IS "Traditional"

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''A distinction is made among those who encounter this art: some are true, some insubstantial, some incomprehending. It is like this: several ceramic amphoras receive one crop of expensive wine from one farm. After a time, some of the amphoras give the wine back perfect, filled with flavor and enjoyment for those who entrusted the wine to their keeping. Other amphoras, however, allow the measure of the wine's volume to diminish, are not able to contain the new wine, and allow it to foam over - these amphoras did not alter the flavor or cause the savor of the wine crop to disappear, but they do cheat <the vintner> in both respects, for the taste does not last any time nor does it keep its real nature, but immediately changes.'' - Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley.
Trad wine - https://www.paintingstar.com/static/...by+Ernst+Nowak
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  #945  
Unread 09-19-2018, 02:50 AM
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Re: Modern Astrology IS "Traditional"

You see, those are the kinds of old farts I have confidence listening to.
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  #946  
Unread 09-19-2018, 05:33 AM
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Re: Modern Astrology IS "Traditional"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddity View Post
The progressive mindset, of course, is that all astrology is a fraud.

That why you never bothered with it?
People were charging astrologers with fraud in ancient times. Have you read Cicero's On Divination? (44 BC)
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  #947  
Unread 09-19-2018, 05:37 AM
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Re: Modern Astrology IS "Traditional"

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Someone quickly find an exorcist for jupiterasc.
Please.

And hurry.
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I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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  #948  
Unread 09-19-2018, 05:51 AM
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Re: Modern Astrology IS "Traditional"

Just a comment on "progressive" astrology.

I think both trads and mods do research, but so far as I can tell, traditional astrologers' research is mostly historically oriented. They may check out an old method to see if it works for them, but not a new one.

Modern astrologers are more likely to try to push the boundaries of knowledge. Some good examples would be Henry Seltzer's book on Eris, and David Cochrane's research on harmonics and the application of statistics to large data sets.

This isn't to say that all modern astrology is research-based.

Ynest, your posts remind me that there is a thread, however slender, in astrology, of seeing and practicing astrology through religious eyes. Anciently Nisaba (Nidaba) was the Sumerian goddess of star-gazing, and Mercury (Hermes) was the Greco-Roman god of astrology. The early works on the heavens (Aratus, Manilius) were written in poetry as the fitting medium for discussing the heavens and planetary gods. Genesis 1:1 begins with God creating the heavens. Ancient astrology also had a Hermetic tradition.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #949  
Unread 09-19-2018, 11:12 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Modern Astrology IS "Traditional"

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Just a comment on "progressive" astrology.

I think both trads and mods do research, but so far as I can tell, traditional astrologers' research is mostly historically oriented. They may check out an old method to see if it works for them, but not a new one.

Modern astrologers are more likely to try to push the boundaries of knowledge. Some good examples would be Henry Seltzer's book on Eris, and David Cochrane's research on harmonics and the application of statistics to large data sets.

This isn't to say that all modern astrology is research-based.

Ynest, your posts remind me that there is a thread, however slender, in astrology, of seeing and practicing astrology through religious eyes. Anciently Nisaba (Nidaba) was the Sumerian goddess of star-gazing, and Mercury (Hermes) was the Greco-Roman god of astrology. The early works on the heavens (Aratus, Manilius) were written in poetry as the fitting medium for discussing the heavens and planetary gods. Genesis 1:1 begins with God creating the heavens. Ancient astrology also had a Hermetic tradition.
You are saying that both research is anecdotal, not using the scientific method.
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  #950  
Unread 09-19-2018, 11:23 AM
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Re: Modern Astrology IS "Traditional"

Quote:
People were charging astrologers with fraud in ancient times.
Times change.
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