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  #1  
Unread 12-10-2013, 09:44 PM
UNOIT UNOIT is offline
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Determining Ruler of Chart

Hello everyone - I just joined this Astrologer's Community - so this is my first post. I have been perusing this site for the last couple of months. I hope this is the correct forum for my question

Here is my question regarding the Ruler of the Chart:
I have Pisces rising with the Moon on the cusp of the 1st House trine Sun and Venus in Scorpio, trine Jupiter and Uranus in Cancer

Some would say Neptune - ruler of Pisces, others would say Jupiter - ruler of Pisces, and others would say the Moon - [it is also the 'planet' with the most aspects in my chart].

I would like to hear others' opinions regarding my Chart ruler.

TIA

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  #2  
Unread 12-10-2013, 11:09 PM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Re: Determining Ruler of Chart

You would need to post the chart in question.

There are several ways to do this. One is the traditional way, and another is the modern way which usually but not always matches the traditional.

But every chart is different and without it there is no way to know.
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  #3  
Unread 12-10-2013, 11:23 PM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Determining Ruler of Chart

Hello UNOIT and welcome to the forum
By the way, even if you post your chart there would not be any consensus or agreement regarding the Chart Ruler,
simply because astrologers all have different opinions and use different techniques, some ancient, some traditional and some modern

Ours is a learning forum primarily and here's a link to a thread with basic instructions on traditional methods of determining the Chart Ruler or 'Almutem Figuris' if those are of interest to you
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...593#post381593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
I was asked in private message to explain the method of calculating the Almutem Figuris of the chart, so I thought that since this is new forum (traditional astrology) it would be better to open a thread here and explain the method publicly where we can all discuss it.

Almutem Figuris is an old doctrine
where one planet according to certain calculations applied
receives the honors to be the Ruler or Lord of the Chart
.


Robert Zoler had applied the therm AlmuteM instead of AlmuteN in order to differentiate the Lord of the Chart from the Lord of certain house or place in the natal chart such as Almuten Domus (Ruler of a House).

The word Almutes is an Arabian word which means 'Winner'.
Because, the planet is the Winner of all the 'life giving' places. Or the places which are most sensible and important in the natal figure.

The method which we'll use here I call Ezra/Zoller method.
Arabian Astrologer Ibn Ezra (1089 — 1164) was the first (as far as we at this moment are aware) to explicitely wrote about calculating the Almutem Figuris.

In his writings Zoller trace the beginnings of this Almutem Figuris and he found it in the writings of Iambichus (c. 245–c. 325) who was Syrian neo-platonic philosopher who wrote also about Astrology in his writings.
Iambicus in his work "Theurgy or on the mysteries of Egypt" speaks about the thing how one can change his fate. He speaks that he can do that through Theurgy and through personal relationship with the Lord of the Geniture of which he (Iambichus) only says that can be known through Astrology, but he didn't explained the method.
Zoller, tracing back the Ibn Ezra's ancestry, through the Sabaeans and his teachers (Mashallah and other) all the way to the first centuries where this doctrine was thought. Because of that line Zoller thinks that the Lord of the Geniture of which Iambichus speaks in his writings is in fact the Almutem Figuris of the Ibn Ezra.

Iambichus speaks (through the name of Porphyry) about the Peculiar Daimon, that is some kind of an Guardian Angel and it is conected to the personal soul but its not the same
Here's what Iambichus says in his Theurgy:
This [daimon] therefore is present as an exemplar before the souls descend into the realm of generated existence. As soon as the soul chooses him for leader the [daimon] immediately comes into charge of completing of its vital endowments and when it descends into the body it unites with the body and becomes the guardian of it common living principle. He likewise directs the the private life of the soul and
whatever the conclusions we may arrive at by inference and reasoning he himself imparts to us the principles."


Zoller about the Almutem Figuris says that it is equally as powerful as all the other planets taken together."

Benjamin Dykes (great student of Zoller) says about Almutem Figuris:
"Almutem Figuris, a powerful planet in the natal figure whose spirit or angel acts as the native's special link to the Divine. The Almutem Figuris is a spiritual astrological delineation, similar to but not the same as Lilly's the "Lord of the Geniture." But like Lilly (and Plato), the Almutem Figuris was taken to affect the native's thoughts, beliefs and character. Spiritual enlightenment can demand that we open our eyes to this particular planet and use it to access the Divine. Significantly, this is a function that many modern astrologers now attribute to the sun sign." (In his article on Happiness).

The method of calculation

1. Find the Essential Dignities (the 5 dignities, apply 3 points to all 3 triplicity rulers), in the Degree of the:
- Sun
- Moon
- Ascendant
- Part of Fortune
- Syzygy (the prenatal lunation, the one that came last, i.e. after which the birth follows - New or Full Moon).

2. Add 7 points for the Day ruler and 6 points to the Hour ruler.

3. Add accidental dignities scores.

For the planet in 1st house you add 12 points.
10th house = 11 points
7th house = 10
4th house = 9
11th = 8
5th = 7
2nd = 6
9th = 5
8th = 4
3rd = 3
12th = 2
6th = 1

The planet which has most points in the aforesaid places is the Almutem Figuris of the chart!

Don't forget to apply the 5 degrees ruler for the planet near the cusp of the houses. For example, if Saturn is at 15 Scorpio in 4th, but the 5th house cusp is at 19 Scorpio, you will calculate that Saturn already in the 5th, and you will give him 7 points instead of 9 as he would took if he was in 4th house. This can make big difference.

The free traditional astrology software - Morinus (google it), calcualte the Almutem Figuris. You can find this option by typing F3. But I should warn you that in that calculation is included some adding of points according to the planets phases. Zoller did not mention any kind of phases calculation so at this moment I'm not aware why the author of the software did included that.

But the best way and more enjoyable is to calculate it with your own hand. You will be familiar with the chart more deeply if you do this calculations with your own hand as the older astrologers did.
And if you must use the Morinus software than subtract the phases scores and you will get the Almutem Figuris right. All else is the same calculation as the Ezra/Zoller method.

Zoller gives short discriptions for every planet being Almutem Figuris:

Sun:
"If the Almuten figuris is the Sun, the native will want to lead, express his creative power and be recognized."

Moon:
"If the Moon, s/he will want to care for, be cared for, eat and make love, dream"

Mercury:
"If it is Mercury, s/he will be diligent in the sciences, business and communications"

Venus:
"Id it is Venus s/he will be a lover of beauty, of music, of men and women etc."

Mars:
"If it is Mars, s/he will fight in order to dominate"

Jupiter:
"If it is Jupiter, s/he will philosophize and teach"

Saturn:
"If it is Saturn he will retire from society, investigate hidden things and suffer adversity.""
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  #4  
Unread 12-10-2013, 11:46 PM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Determining Ruler of Chart

To clarify and assist with the method of calculation then:

QUOTE

The method of calculation


1. Find the Essential Dignities (the 5 dignities, apply 3 points to all 3 triplicity rulers), in the Degree of the:
- Sun
- Moon
- Ascendant
- Part of Fortune
- Syzygy (the prenatal lunation, the one that came last, i.e. after which the birth follows - New or Full Moon).

2. Add 7 points for the Day ruler and 6 points to the Hour ruler.

3. Add accidental dignities scores.

For the planet in 1st house you add 12 points.
10th house = 11 points
7th house = 10
4th house = 9
11th = 8
5th = 7
2nd = 6
9th = 5
8th = 4
3rd = 3
12th = 2
6th = 1

The planet which has most points in the aforesaid places is the Almutem Figuris of the chart!

A TABLE OF THE ESSENTIAL DIGNITIES OF THE PLANETS

and

HOW TO READ THE TABLE
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig2.html

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  #5  
Unread 12-10-2013, 11:51 PM
UNOIT UNOIT is offline
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Re: Determining Ruler of Chart

@JUPITERASC - thank you for your welcome as well as the link - some interesting information there

BTW - I wasn't seeking consensus or agreement - just curious what others would say given the limited information that I supplied - I do agree that it is often a rocky road trying to find consensus and agreement regarding Chart interpretations


@Zarathu - thank you for your reply - right now, I would rather not post my chart
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  #6  
Unread 12-11-2013, 12:17 AM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Re: Determining Ruler of Chart

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNOIT View Post
Zarathu - thank you for your reply - right now, I would rather not post my chart
You are welcome to PM the information to me and I will either post the response(wihtout sharing your chart data) back on the forum or privately to you.
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  #7  
Unread 12-11-2013, 04:31 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: Determining Ruler of Chart

UNOIT:
You might find the discussion in the thread entitled "The Chart Ruler & the Ascendant" (Astrology & Psychology Forum) of some interest.
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  #8  
Unread 12-12-2013, 04:51 AM
UNOIT UNOIT is offline
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Re: Determining Ruler of Chart

@Zarathu - thanks again for your response and your offer - I have been very busy today - perhaps in the next couple of days

@dr. farr - thank you for the link - I'll check it out later
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  #9  
Unread 12-13-2013, 08:58 AM
UNOIT UNOIT is offline
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Re: Determining Ruler of Chart

@JUPITERASC

re:

Quote:
The method of calculation
1. Find the Essential Dignities (the 5 dignities, apply 3 points to all 3 triplicity rulers)'
Can't seem to wrap my head around this - I don't understand
Quote:
the 5 dignities, apply 3 points to all 3 triplicity rulers
aren't there 4 triplicities ? -> Fire, Earth, Air, Water

or, Re 1.

only if the Sun is in Leo = 3 points for the Sun?
or is it - if I had Sun in Aquarius = 3 points for Saturn?

only if the Moon is in Cancer = 3 points for the Moon?
or is it - if I have Moon in Pisces = 3 points for Jupiter?

Ascendant in Pisces = 3 points for Jupiter?
Part of Fortune in Leo = 3 point for the Sun?
prenatal lunation in Scorpio = 3 points for Mars?


re planetary hours, I am using this Table:

HTML Code:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_hours
do you agree with the Table?

Thanks for your time
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  #10  
Unread 12-13-2013, 06:56 PM
UNOIT UNOIT is offline
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Re: Determining Ruler of Chart

@JUPITERASC

Hello JUPITERASC

Pardon my ignorance, I never studied 'triplicty rulers' - after a little searching I found this: from http://www.skyscript.co.uk/morin.html

"Each one of the triplicities has three rulers . . .
Dorotheus of Sidon gave us the triplicity rulers most commonly used. There is a day ruler, a night ruler, and a participating ruler. If the Sun is above the horizon, the day rulers of the triplicity have the most influence over planets in that triplicity. If the Sun is below the horizon, the night ruler has priority, and the participating ruler some constant effect

The Dorothean rulers are:


[Element] Day Night Participating

Fire Sun Jupiter Saturn
Earth Venus Moon Mars
Air Saturn Mercury Jupiter
Water Venus Mars Moon

Now, according to Ptolemy the Day and Night are the same except for Water

Ptolemy - Water
Day Night
Mars Mars

But where are the Participating rulers in the Table of Ptolemy? Is this Column 5?

I didn't see any mention of 'Participating' or 'constant' at

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig2.html

I'll have to go back and re-read this [sorry to bother you with this]
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  #11  
Unread 12-13-2013, 07:16 PM
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ashriia ashriia is offline
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Re: Determining Ruler of Chart

if you are studying modern astrology. neptune is your chart ruler. jupiter would also be influential. astrologers like to complicate things because we enjoy that sort of thing. but keep it simple use : neptune. and welcome to the forum.
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  #12  
Unread 12-13-2013, 07:16 PM
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Re: Determining Ruler of Chart

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNOIT View Post
@JUPITERASC

re:
Quote:

The method of calculation


1. Find the Essential Dignities (the 5 dignities, apply 3 points to all 3 triplicity rulers)'

Can't seem to wrap my head around this - I don't understand
The five dignities are as follows

Sign or Domicile
Exaltation
Triplicity
Term
Face

To find the Dignities of each planet, read the Dignities Table and note that the column headings are as follows
:

Sign = Sign Ruler aka Domicile Ruler

Houses of the Planets = Night or Day Ruler

Exaltation = Exaltation Ruler

Triplicity = Triplicity Ruler
... each Sign has three Triplicity Rulers... One is the Day Triplicity Ruler, one is the Night Triplicity Ruler and the Third is the Participating Triplicity Ruler

Terms of Planets = Term Ruler

Faces of Planets = Face Ruler



Lilly assigns 3 points for Triplicity Ruler and here's
LILLY'S TABLE TO EXAMINE THE STRENGTH AND DEBILITY OF EACH
PLANET
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig5.html
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  #13  
Unread 12-13-2013, 07:22 PM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Determining Ruler of Chart

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNOIT View Post
@JUPITERASC

Hello JUPITERASC

Pardon my ignorance, I never studied 'triplicty rulers' - after a little searching I found this: from http://www.skyscript.co.uk/morin.html

"Each one of the triplicities has three rulers . . .
Dorotheus of Sidon gave us the triplicity rulers most commonly used. There is a day ruler, a night ruler, and a participating ruler. If the Sun is above the horizon, the day rulers of the triplicity have the most influence over planets in that triplicity. If the Sun is below the horizon, the night ruler has priority, and the participating ruler some constant effect

The Dorothean rulers are:


[Element] Day Night Participating

Fire Sun Jupiter Saturn
Earth Venus Moon Mars
Air Saturn Mercury Jupiter
Water Venus Mars Moon

Now, according to Ptolemy the Day and Night are the same except for Water

Ptolemy - Water
Day Night
Mars Mars

But where are the Participating rulers in the Table of Ptolemy? Is this Column 5?

I didn't see any mention of 'Participating' or 'constant' at

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig2.html

I'll have to go back and re-read this [sorry to bother you with this]
DOROTHEAN TABLE OF ESSENTIAL DIGNITIES



PTOLEMY'S ESSENTIAL DIGNITIES AND DEBILITIES

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  #14  
Unread 12-13-2013, 07:30 PM
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Re: Determining Ruler of Chart

ALTAIR ASTROLOGY http://altairastrology.wordpress.com...at-triplicity/
PROVIDES FOUR ALTERNATIVE DIGNITIES IN TABULAR FORM

PTOLEMY
DOROTHEUS
SCHOENER
MORIN

FOR EASY COMPARISON AS FOLLOWS

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  #15  
Unread 12-13-2013, 09:08 PM
UNOIT UNOIT is offline
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Re: Determining Ruler of Chart

@ashriia
Thanks for the welcome. BTW - I have studied mostly Rosicrucian astrology

http://www.rosicrucian.com/

but I am open-minded and have studied some more 'modern' schools of thought

I agree regarding simplicity - thought I would investigate this subject a little deeper for a little bit of brain exercise


@JUPITERASC
Wow - Thank you for being so thorough
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  #16  
Unread 12-14-2013, 04:14 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: Determining Ruler of Chart

For me, I rarely find in the "real world of daily life" that there is one planetary ruler of any chart: sure one planet can garner the most dignities, but to believe that a single planet is lord of the entire chart because of this, I consider to be a questionable outlook. We have several highly important considerations here:
-yes, the planet with the highest dignities in the chart, but also,
-the planetary dispositor of the ascending sign, and,
-the atmakaraka of the chart (most symbolically significant planet in a chart, determined by the planet having the highest number of degrees + minutes, in any sign, of all the planets in the chart) and,
-the most elevated planet (planet closest to the MC in the chart)-considered in Greco-Roman and early Medieval astrology to be very significant, and,
-any grand or ultimate dispositor of the chart (any planet which, through the chain of rulerships of signs in the chart, ultimately winds up dispositing the entire chart)

...occasionally one planet will cover all of these areas, but in practice usually 2 or 3 planets end up covering all of these parameters: for me, these planets would be the "rulers" (ie most important planets) for the specific chart...

Last edited by dr. farr; 12-14-2013 at 04:17 AM.
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  #17  
Unread 12-14-2013, 08:19 AM
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ashriia ashriia is offline
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Re: Determining Ruler of Chart

determining a chart ruler is usually one of the early questions when you study your chart. my head would have exploded if i got all this info posted here when i was 1st starting out with reading my chart. which is why i mentioned keeping it simple. further study is good down the road. like with everything in astrology the rabbit hole goes on forever!
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  #18  
Unread 12-14-2013, 02:43 PM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Re: Determining Ruler of Chart

IMO, determining the chart ruler was something I did as an early beginning astrologer. I pay very little attention to it now. I'm far more interested in the power and friction of the planets, ASC, MH, houses, signs, and aspects, as well as aspect configurations, lunar latitude, and challenges preseneted by the tertairy and minor progressed charts, to start.

The chart ruler doesn't usually help in much of the meaning of the chart for me.
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  #19  
Unread 12-14-2013, 07:52 PM
UNOIT UNOIT is offline
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Re: Determining Ruler of Chart

@Zarathu, ashriia, dr. farr

Thank you for your feedback - just thought that I would mention that I started seriously studying Astrology in 1990 - had my first chart done by Erin Sullivan back in 1982. As I mentioned, it has primarily been Rosicrucian Astrology, and I hadn't come across Day, Night, and Participating/Partner/Mix Rulers before.
I had initially posted this to another forum and it ended up in the "Read My Chart" forum - I wasn't actually looking to have my Chart interpreted - sorry for any confusion that I generated. I was curious to see what kind of feedback that I would get re this Topic and I am very pleased that so many well-informed people have taken the time to respond, it is much appreciated.
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  #20  
Unread 12-14-2013, 09:23 PM
UNOIT UNOIT is offline
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Re: Determining Ruler of Chart

Hi

This is what I use:

Message of the Stars - page 63
"It is well known to students of Astrology that an astrological reading based upon the month in which an individual is born is worth little, for all the people born in the same month do not have the same experiences by any means, but if we consider the day, the year and the place we get a horoscope that is absolutely individual and totally different in detail from the horoscope of anyone else - and this is the point which concerns us for the present argument - the ruler is not the lord of the sign the Sun is in, except for children born at Sunrise, when the Sun is on the Ascendant. It is the ruler of the rising sign, THAT is the determinator with regard to our mineralogical affinity, because at the moment of conception when the seed atom of our present mineral body was deposited the Moon was in that particular sign and degree (or its opposite), and acted then as a focus of forces which have since crystallized into the vehicle we now wear."

Message of the Stars - pages 419-421
"It has become the custom of many astrologers to take the lord of the rising sign as the ruler of the horoscope. That is correct in Medical Astrology because the Ascendant represents the body, but when we want to judge the character which is the combination of all the forces focused through the horoscopical wheel of life the matter is different. Then we must find what planet has the most dominant influence in the life and that is then the life ruler regardless of whether or not it is the ruler of the Ascendant. To find that planet look first to the lord of the Ascendant. If he is elevated, essentially dignified or angular and strongly aspected, remember, it matters not whether the aspects are good or bad as long as they are close and plentiful (for if it were only the good aspects that made the ruler, then there would be only good people in the world. But we know that there are people of all shades of character and therefore it is necessary to select the ruler according to the aspects, regardless of whether they are good or bad), and above all, if the aspects are close, then the lord of the Ascendant is also the ruling planet, for he will exercise the most potent influence in the life. On the other hand if another planet is more highly elevated than the ruler of the Ascendant, if it is exalted, essentially dignified or placed in an angle and its aspects are more plentiful or closer than the aspects of the lord of the Ascendant, then judge that that planet will be the ruler of the horoscope and exercise a dominant influence in the life regardless of the fact that it is not the ruler of the rising sign. But if there are two planets running neck-and-neck in the race for rulership, so to speak, with no strongly marked difference in favor of one or the other so that it is difficult to make a choice, do not utterly discard one and choose the other, for then they will both be very active in the life and must be classed as co-rulers."
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  #21  
Unread 12-15-2013, 12:16 AM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Determining Ruler of Chart

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNOIT View Post
Hi

This is what I use:

Message of the Stars - page 63
"It is well known to students of Astrology that an astrological reading based upon the month in which an individual is born is worth little, for all the people born in the same month do not have the same experiences by any means, but if we consider the day, the year and the place we get a horoscope that is absolutely individual and totally different in detail from the horoscope of anyone else - and this is the point which concerns us for the present argument - the ruler is not the lord of the sign the Sun is in, except for children born at Sunrise, when the Sun is on the Ascendant. It is the ruler of the rising sign, THAT is the determinator with regard to our mineralogical affinity, because at the moment of conception when the seed atom of our present mineral body was deposited the Moon was in that particular sign and degree (or its opposite), and acted then as a focus of forces which have since crystallized into the vehicle we now wear."

Message of the Stars - pages 419-421
"It has become the custom of many astrologers to take the lord of the rising sign as the ruler of the horoscope. That is correct in Medical Astrology because the Ascendant represents the body, but when we want to judge the character which is the combination of all the forces focused through the horoscopical wheel of life the matter is different. Then we must find what planet has the most dominant influence in the life and that is then the life ruler regardless of whether or not it is the ruler of the Ascendant. To find that planet look first to the lord of the Ascendant. If he is elevated, essentially dignified or angular and strongly aspected, remember, it matters not whether the aspects are good or bad as long as they are close and plentiful (for if it were only the good aspects that made the ruler, then there would be only good people in the world. But we know that there are people of all shades of character and therefore it is necessary to select the ruler according to the aspects, regardless of whether they are good or bad), and above all, if the aspects are close, then the lord of the Ascendant is also the ruling planet, for he will exercise the most potent influence in the life. On the other hand if another planet is more highly elevated than the ruler of the Ascendant, if it is exalted, essentially dignified or placed in an angle and its aspects are more plentiful or closer than the aspects of the lord of the Ascendant, then judge that that planet will be the ruler of the horoscope and exercise a dominant influence in the life regardless of the fact that it is not the ruler of the rising sign. But if there are two planets running neck-and-neck in the race for rulership, so to speak, with no strongly marked difference in favor of one or the other so that it is difficult to make a choice, do not utterly discard one and choose the other, for then they will both be very active in the life and must be classed as co-rulers."
Since you are clearly interested to explore alternatives,
whether 'simple' or otherwise
then consider the HELLENISTIC method

which consists of determining
the Kurios
aka Lord of the Nativity

- i.e. Kurios is
the Executor of the agenda
that Oikodespotes aka The Domicile Master holds.

Kurios is equally important in the overall rulership of the natal chart aka nativity



How to Determine Kurios:

Schmidt says it is as if there are CANDIDATES that must be assessed in order to determine the Kurios



LIST OF CANDIDATES ELIGIBLE FOR POSITION OF KURIOS


1. Ascendant sign. Any planet(s) in the Ascendant sign AND bounds of the ascending degree.


2. Domicile Lord of Ascendant.

3. Moon and its Domicile Lord

4. 10th sign from ascendant and its Domicile Lord

5. The Lot of Fortune and its Domicile Lord.

6. Any planets that make a phasis in the chart. Include planets that make a first or second station 7 days before or after the nativity. (Phasis previously explained in earlier posts)

7. The bound lord of the pre-natal lunation.



The Kurios aka Lord of the nativity is determined using the preceding hierarchy

AND

crucially

must also
be fit to conduct its business
.



This in fact is part of the Preliminary Natal analysis which
consists of judging whether:


(a) a planet is able and/or planets are able - and/or unable - to conduct their business and/or businesses, as well as

(b) whether the natal planets are favorable or unfavorable to the native.



ACCORDING TO VETTIUS VALENS free pdf translated by Professor Riley from the original Ancient Greek http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf


To find conditions relevant to the fitness and/or ability of a planet to conduct its business

one would commence with assessing conditions that are relative to the horizon
:


If a planet is in an angular or succedent Whole Sign house then the planet is in a place conducive to the conduct of its business.

Angular Houses = 1,4,7,10

Succedent Houses = 2,5,8.11



If a planet remains angular when using dynamic house system Porphyry then the planet is said to be 'goaded' towards more activity.


If a planet is in a cadent Whole Sign house, then the planet is in a place that is not conducive to the conduct of its business.

Cadent Houses = 3,6,9,12




If a benefic planet is in a cadent house, the beneficence of the planet is turned away from the native (or native’s agenda).


If a malefic planet is in a cadent house, the malevolence of the planet is turned away from the native (or the native's agenda).


Robert Schmidt of Project Hindsight advises that http://www.projecthindsight.com/


"The proposed algorithms for both of these ruling planets are not without their interpretive difficulties,
although the determination of the lord of the nativity is stated in the Porphyry text itself to be especially difficult.

The determination of the domicile master of the nativity is based on a predomination (epikratēsis) argument
that is, we first have to determine which of the two lights is better positioned in the nativity according to several specified criteria.
The domicile master of the nativity is then taken as the domicile lord of the image occupied by this light..."



Conditions relative to Sun then:


When a planet is in the interval from heliacal rising up to first station or from second station up to the heliacal setting, the planet is capable of appearing and therefore is in a place conducive to the conduct of its business .

The heliacal rising of a star (or other body such as the moon, a planet or a constellation) occurs when it first becomes visible above the eastern horizon for a brief moment just before sunrise, after a period of time when it had not been visible http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliacal_rising

When a planet is making a Station and/or phasis, it is not only capable of appearing but is also intensified [Schmidt says that Phasis means “making an appearance” or “sudden dramatic showing of something”. It can also mean “something that speaks” or we can say that it means “an appearance that speaks”].

Phasis describes a planet making a heliacal rising (rising before the sun) (standardized to 15 degrees by Hellenistic astrology) within 7 days before of after native’s birth. Rumen Kolev one of the few living practitioners of Ancient Babylonian Astrology based on his own observations of the skies, states that the 15ş standardisation is obviously a variable dependent upon local conditions.

When any planet is “under the sun’s beams” i.e. within 15 ecliptic degrees of the sun, the planet is considered not capable of conducting its business due to being “drained or unempowered”. However, there are modifications to this such as if a planet is in its Exaltation, own terms or own bounds or dignity, then the planet is considered to be “in its own chariot” and therefore “protected and/or shielded” from the potential 'harm' of combustion.

When a planet is in the interval of first station to second station (i.e. retrograde), the planet is not fit to conduct its business because it is described as “walking backwards”.


FAQ SECT http://www.projecthindsight.com/

To be in Sect, the Sun must be above the horizon
The Sun can only be above the horizon in a Day/diurnal Chart

The Moon in a Night Chart may be in Sect either above or below the horizon

- that's because the Sun determines Diurnal/Nocturnal

(a) The Sun is always in Sect in a Day Chart

(b) The Moon is always in Sect in a Night Chart

ADDITIONAL CONSIDERATIONS

1.) In a diurnal chart you'd want the diurnal planets in the upper hemisphere with the Sun (hayz) as that would be more natural for those planets. The diurnal planets are Sun, Jupiter and Saturn.

If any diurnal planets in a diurnal chart are in the lower hemisphere/below the Ascendant/Descendant axis then although they are in sect, nevertheless they are considered slightly out of sect and more nocturnal in nature (halb).

If the nocturnal planets in a diurnal chart are below the horizon, although they are out of sect they are still in hayz and so more natural - but nocturnal planets that are above the horizon in a diurnal chart are situated contrary to their nature (halb).

2.) In a nocturnal chart you'd want the nocturnal planets in the upper hemisphere away from the Sun (hayz).

Any nocturnal planets in the lower hemisphere in a nocturnal chart are still in sect but are considered slightly out of sect and more diurnal in nature (halb).

If the diurnal planets in a nocturnal chart are below the horizon they are also hayz, so a little more natural but if they are above the horizon they are situated contrary to their nature nature (halb).

Just remember

(a) the Sun alone determines Day and Night.


(b) the Sun can only be above the horizon in a Day Chart

(c) the Moon is always out of Sect when the Sun is above the horizon (Diurnal/Day Chart)

(d) the Moon is always in Sect when the Sun is below the horizon (Nocturnal/Night Chart)

(e) therefore if the Sun is below the horizon it is a Nocturnal/Night Chart and

(f) therefore in a Nocturnal/Night Chart the Moon is in Sect whether above or below the Horizon

diurnal = day
nocturnal = night


(a) when above the horizon the Sun is in the upper hemisphere = Day/diurnal

(b) when below the horizon the Sun is in the lower hemisphere = Night/nocturnal

therefore

(c) the Moon is in Sect in a Night Chart irrespective of hemisphere and/or horizon
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #22  
Unread 12-15-2013, 02:42 AM
UNOIT UNOIT is offline
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Posts: 32
Re: Determining Ruler of Chart

@JUPITERASC - Thanks again. That pdf file looks like an interesting read.

[I hope it is OK not to "QUOTE/QUOTE" in lengthier posts?]
Once again I appreciate your thoroughness.

A very minor point - there is a typo in

Quote:
Succedent Houses = 2,5,8.11
Also, looks like it is not possible to edit a post afterwards?

Cheers
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  #23  
Unread 12-15-2013, 03:42 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Posts: 12,474
Re: Determining Ruler of Chart

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNOIT View Post
Also, looks like it is not possible to edit a post afterwards?

Cheers

No, you can edit any post of your own, at any time you choose (you can also delete any post of your own as long as its not a thread you started-can't delete threads)
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  #24  
Unread 12-15-2013, 06:19 AM
UNOIT UNOIT is offline
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Posts: 32
Re: Determining Ruler of Chart

@dr. farr

Hi - I should have worded my question differently - I did mean the ability to edit my own post - I just noticed that when I am replying to a post and scroll down to look at my previous posts - no EDIT button appears - and I now see the EDIT button when I am not replying to the thread. Silly me.
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  #25  
Unread 12-15-2013, 12:55 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Posts: 67,775
Re: Determining Ruler of Chart

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNOIT View Post
@JUPITERASC - Thanks again. That pdf file looks like an interesting read.
Vettius Valens ANTHOLOGY pdf http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
is essential study material for those exploring original astrological techniques
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNOIT View Post
[I hope it is OK not to "QUOTE/QUOTE" in lengthier posts?]
Once again I appreciate your thoroughness.

A very minor point - there is a typo in
Quote:
Succedent Houses = 2,5,8.11
Well noted!
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNOIT View Post
Also, looks like it is not possible to edit a post afterwards?

Cheers
As dr. farr has explained, editing is possible
however I shall not edit since it is only a dot instead of a comma
and I think it's clear that houses 2,5,8,11 are all succedent houses

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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