A very bad girl.

There's a girl I've known for a while now, and I believe she's evil.
She manipulates every time she breathes, and she lies, lies, LIES, like it doesn't mean anything. She talks about everyone she knows, and she bullies all of her family members. She has plenty of friends, but they, too, partake in her savagery of putting others down. That's all she does with herself.
Could someone please explain to me what's going on in this girl's little head? I can't comprehend how anyone can be so base.

Her data is August 23, 1987, 1:01 A.M. Washington, D.C.

Hey,

Well, evil.., but the chart might be pretty interesting to study.
Can you please pull one and post it, so we can comment on it, if that is what you are aiming with this thread?

Thanks!

Trines galore!

Oh wow.. yeah I can see where it's coming from.. all those trines..just from a glance.. I see the saturn opposition ascendant. Pretty much is she has a hard time making herself known I would guess.. she needs to do a lot to get attention which may be what you're talking about. Uranus opposition Ascendant may also mean extremely rebellious in the sense you mean. The trines mean that, in that excess, you could be expecting of getting what you want instead of working for it so it may add a degree of being conceited.

I've created the chart, and I'm somewhat surprised by how innocuous it looks upon first glance. There's a Kite configuration consisting of a Fire Trine between retrograde Jupiter in late Aries, a fused Venus-Sun conjunction in late Leo conjunct Mars is early Virgo, and Uranus in Sagittarius. Chart ruler Mercury is strong in Virgo, and it is conjunct the super-fused conjunction.

I was expecting to see some malevolent fixed star at work here, but that super-fused conjunction is conjunct Regulus, which is quite benefic.

Jupiter is the apex of this configuration, and it makes an out-of-sign opposition to Pluto. Jupiter tends to magnify the influence of all planets in which it comes into contact, so perhaps it emphasizes Pluto's inherent qualities. The Moon is square Pluto, which can possibly indicate rage.

This does seem to be a powerful soul with planets conjunct the angles, but I can't seem to find any indicator that the soul would choose to use its power for ill. Perhaps this was simply a matter of free will?

Arian Maverick

Oh, this girl is definitely 'ill'. She's extremely jealous of others, and she exploits many people. No guilt involved.
She once threw a cat into the sewer and laughed about it.

She has Bellatrix very, very near to the Ascendant which when ill placed Lilly noted as a portent of waste of substance and fortune. Robson adds to this, quarrels, hatred, fraud and perjury. However, I see nothing that would suggest Bellatrix is afflicted. I'm actually not 100% sure how stars are afflicted myself.

Arian Maverick said:

Perhaps this was simply a matter of free will?

Click to expand...

That would be my first glance conclusion. It's the chart of someone very strongwilled and powerful. Sun / Moon/ Venus in Leo with Mars / Mercury so closely conjunct; and that's before we look at the trines.

Her parents may have struggled to discipline her when younger (or given up trying). Leo children can be very wilful (as I was). As for her friends, when you're young it's difficult to stand up to 'the leader'. Question is will she ever learn?

How did you get the info about her birthtime? That suggests you have close contact. Is that wise with someone so evil?

Hey,
If you were in a relationship with her and was hurt, not that I am saying you were, I am just assuming because I felt hatred for someone that hurt me...
But she has uranus on the descendant...she can love and then leave and not think much about it in relationships...as uranus is at the DC, expect the unexpected in love relations with this one...
But the trines make life for her easy, she has leo and gemini in the chart....remember geminis can be very chatty, and can talk about others behind their back...
Leos love attention...
a lot of planets in the fourth...not sure how she can be so mean to her family....

Hey, this girl's Venus is in the heart of the Sun, Cazimi. Venus rules her 12th house of sorrow, selfundoing and self-sacrifice. Venus and Sun are both in a critical degree as well. I have a feeling that this could well have to do with how she treats other people. It is difficult for me to describe what I mean, I just feel that a 12th house planet in a critical degree and also in totally exact conjunction with the planet of her being, the Sun, shows her behavior towards others in a very strong, but negative (29°) way.

The Sun also rules her 4th house and is in conjunction with Mars and the ruler of her Ascendant, so all these planets are connected with that 12th house of her. She must have been really hit hard I think when she was still very young. This treatment has been her example of how to treat others. Notice that she has Chiron in the 1st. This I see often with people who have suffered. Notice also that she has no planets in watersigns except Pluto who is not a personal planet and the one's that she has in the 4th (water) house are all ruled by a Sun in a critical degree and weak in Virgo. Only her Asc. ruler is strong.

Usually a square from Mercury (or Jupiter) to Neptune can turn a person into a liar. (not always of course, but there is always a hint of deception there. Sometimes they tell great stories, totally invented to show off and even start believing in them as well). Here it is a trine and part of a Grand trine in Earth. Trines make it easy for people to do something. Neptune (deception) is connected with Jupiter retro (honesty) and Mercury (mind) and maybe this grandtrine makes her do these things, tell lies, probably white lies more than really lying. She does need a lot of attention with first of all that Moon in Leo and then also with the square to Pluto (powerful). She has missed emotional attention in her childhood and now askes in a negative way for it. Moon in the house of her peers shows the bullying clearly.

The Pluto-Uranus semi-square is of course generational but still shows how ruthless she could be to others and that she is also inclined to suddenly cut ties with someone.

The Sun/Venus trine Uranus shows great detachement in love and in relationships with others . It could be seen as cold, unfeeling. Jupiter, ruler of her 7th in opposition to a strong Pluto in own sign shows how she can dominate others with ease (because Jupiter is helped by those trines.)
-
Two critical planets (Jupiter and Sun)trining one another is something I have not seen before. Mercury, ruler of the Ascendant is in the same degree as the Nodes and conjuncts the South Node which could show that she might still be strongly connected to past life experiences and is unable to "give out" through her North Node (yet). The 12th house Venus also has to do with karmic situations.

My observations in a (not exactly) nutshell
Starlink

You say good things, starlink, but I think the ones who've suffered are her family, not her.
I've been close with her family all my life, and her sister is my friend. I've seen the way she treats her siblings when she picks them up- she grabs them by the arm, she yells at them, and she humiliates them in public. One time, when she, her sister, and me went to a bakery, she met an old friend of hers. She introduced us to her old friend as, "shy and stupid". She's extremely blunt and rude. I'll never know HOW she gathered all of her friends. People like her, I avoid.
Her sister told me that when she was young, the 'evil girl' would bite others and even broke the car window once. She kept her brother up all night just teasing him. She was a tyrant in the house, and still is.
So with all the theories about Chiron in the first house being suffering within YOURSELF, I think there are cases of those who have caused suffering in others. Immensely.
I don't know what you're missing here, folks, but she is not nice in person.
If you've truly suffered, why make others suffer more?

I think youth is her down-fall for now. I believe she will change as she gets older. I don't like Saturn being where it is... seems like she will have difficulties in health as she gets older. Seeing the Cazimi Venus was a surprise. But... now a weakness... later a strength? The possibilites are there. V/r LionKing

The stellium in the forth house is very tight. When Leo bravado and bullying are taking place, it usually stems from feelings of inadequacy and used as a compensation. Not surprising that we are looking at the 4th house, it is easier to be tyrannical with your own family. The Mercury and Mars conjunction, until later in life when maturity has onset, is known for verbally castrating and aggressive thoughts. These are tied in with the Ego (the Sun) with the close orb conjunction. Mercury and Mars are in the dark side of the house (second sign) and she may not really realize the ramifications of what she says... it is disowned in a way.

Where a trine should be a fabulous aspect, this trine involves Jupiter (make it bigger and better and louder...) and Uranus (high impulse activity). I would be surprised if she has not been diagnosed with Attention Deficit, uncontrolled acting upon impulses being the hallmark. These two planets will spur on the 4th house stellium. I would believe with these aspects, we aren't looking at evil, but instead a lack of appropriateness and self control.

I lecture my own 5th house Leo daughter often... "Graciousness is the most wonderful attribute to Leo, and it takes work."

TK

She's got tough transits at the moment ... saturn has contacted that stellium (and the planets in trine) over the past year. Probably feels very restricted and unable to express herself or do anything. And Pluto is contacting it this year into next. My own experience of that transit has been lots of things happening beyond my control. Perhaps when those transits are over she'll settle down.

wintersprite1 said:

When Leo bravado and bullying are taking place, it usually stems from feelings of inadequacy and used as a compensation. Not surprising that we are looking at the 4th house, it is easier to be tyrannical with your own family.

Click to expand...

wintersprite1 said:

I would believe with these aspects, we aren't looking at evil, but instead a lack of appropriateness and self control.

Click to expand...

I'd agree with that summary. I think she needs someone really strong that she can respect to teach her more appropriate ways to behave.

starlink said:

The Sun also rules her 4th house

Click to expand...

I'm being a bit dumb. Why's that? Sun usually rules Leo and the 5th house. Her Moon is in the 4th house which it would rule.

starlink said:

Notice also that she has no planets in watersigns except Pluto

Click to expand...

That's a very good point. It makes it much harder to empathise with other people and realise how she may be hurting them. All that fire is very me-first.

starlink said:

Usually a square from Mercury (or Jupiter) to Neptune can turn a person into a liar. (not always of course, but there is always a hint of deception there. Sometimes they tell great stories, totally invented to show off and even start believing in them as well). Here it is a trine and part of a Grand trine in Earth. Trines make it easy for people to do something. Neptune (deception) is connected with Jupiter retro (honesty) and Mercury (mind) and maybe this grandtrine makes her do these things, tell lies, probably white lies more than really lying.

Click to expand...

I was thinking similar last night. I have Neptune square my Sun, it fills me with self-doubt. I reckon a trine aspect would make it easier for the native to create big stories, lies and illusions without realising they are 'wrong'.

Hey said:

I don't know what you're missing here, folks, but she is not nice in person.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure we're missing anything. I've an ex- who is not nice. I could describe her as 'evil' because she is very selfish, uses emotional blackmail and tells whatever lies gets her what she wants. I've seen her abuse and threaten her family, I see her manipulate people to give her things.

But I don't, I feel sorry for her. She constantly needs the approval of others, she can't express her feelings, she won't ask directly for something, she can't take responsibility for any she says or does. Every relationship she has eventually falls apart and she is lonely. Now middleaged I don't she will ever learn where she's going wrong and you can't tell her.

If you've truly suffered, why make others suffer more?

Click to expand...

Because you want to do upon others what has been done upon you. This happens a lot.
About her biting etc. as a small kid, it is all because she did not get the right attention in the first place and then, when the next kid came along, she became of course extremely jealous of the necessary attention (by just having to feed and clean a baby) the brother or sister got from the parents. It does not even necessarily mean that that new baby did get more attention than she did, she just feels it that way, everytime mother or father picks up the new baby. I have a daughter who as a first born, was also totally jealous of her little brother. I am a complete mother hen so I would never give her less attention then him. Nevertheless, she perceived it that way, because of course a new baby is new, it is cute and you therefore smile at it. This was enough for her to get jealous. By making her responsible for certain things, like giving her brother the bottle, helping me with putting him in the bath (and me doing as if I was completely unable to do that, so she would feel important!!! (Leo Ascendant and Aries Sun!), I solved the problem. These personalities do ask more attention than others and with a Moon-Pluto aspect it becomes quite intense. But if parents say: do what I say and behave yourself and be nice to your little brother or sister, then you really ignite this basic jealousy even more.

I know that certain children are absolutely impossible (I watched the little devils being changed into little angles on BBC prime) and it always had it's origin in parents who did not (or just could not because of work or illness) pay enough attention to the child. As soon as the parent (usually the mother) started working half days instead of whole days, spending more time with the kid, things improved dramatically. This behavior also has a lot to do with parents who dont put limits to certain things. Kids need rules otherwise they will never learn how far they can go. Kids always try to cross the borderline. You must be firm and yet stay pleasant enough to make clear to them that certain things just cant be done.

Each and every child I saw there was absolutely "evil" to the parents and their peers. I just cannot believe that someone is born evil. It is the social environment or the education which is responsable for kids becoming this way and yes, some are far more prone to this behavior than others.

Originally Posted by starlink
The Sun also rules her 4th house


I'm being a bit dumb. Why's that? Sun usually rules Leo and the 5th house. Her Moon is in the 4th house which it would rule.

The cusp of the 4th house falls in the sign Leo, therefore Sun is ruler of the 4th in this chart. If you just take the sign Leo and the Sun as its ruler independent from the birthchart, then yes, Leo/Sun rule the 5th house.

I also feel sorry for this girl who will probably never become really happy as she is unable to let people come close to her. She might end up being very lonely indeed.

Starlink

I always try to keep an open mind when people are seemingly mean to their families.

We as a society tend to put family up on a pedestal. This is especially true with say the latino culture where the family rules all. So much so that a father can treat his children badly with impunitya and not have to worry much that they won't still take care of him when he's older because they brainwash their children into "family is all nomatter how I treat you".

But even here in America, I've witnessed consistently that if someone isn't being nice to their parent, uncle etc... people turn around and say "Oh he/she is HORRIBLE to their family? Meanwhile these people judgeing have no idea that the person they're DEFENDING repeatedly raped them as a child or beat their mother, or was just plain emotionally manipulative and enjoyed watching them in pain because it's easy to make yourself feel big when you're dumping on a helpless child.

I haven't spoken to my father in years & when he has been in my life before that I was not the nicest person to him. NOT ONE person has not defended him. Everyone is just "Oh, you are so mean to your father. You don't reach out to him or talk to him." These people don't ever bother to ask WHY I don't want him in my life. They just assume I'm an evil *****. It is so hard when people who don't know anything just come at you with these judgements and meanwhile the abusers are constantly defended because no one ever bothers to think that maybe- just maybe the only crime in how they are being treated is that they deserve a hell of alot worse.

I don't know this girl or her family. It's possible that she is just evil, but unless you know her upbringing well enough it's just as possible that she's only reacting to her family. Though I do believe that her dumping her insecurities on innocent others around her is a sign of weakness. One that I find often in gemini women. It's important to remember that there's usually more than meets the eye in these things. The last thing a victim of abuse needs is to relive that abuse by having a friend say "oh you're so mean to your dad, I feel so sorry for HIM."

When I say I've been close with her family all my life, I mean it. I don't judge people and confirm things without knowing. I've got some hard solid facts and experience on my sleeve. This girl is nuts.
She's the first child of many kids, and I guess after the ones after her arrived, she got less and less attention from her parents. But she has no right to be a tyrant. When you go home, you shouldn't have to feel fear, but that's what her family feels, always. We've all been through some ______, but it doesn't mean we cross into other's territories and bother them. She makes a living out of that.
I think this is all tied in with her ego. That Sun of hers, as well as all that Leo, has got her more obnoxious than the queen in Snow White.

Hey said:

We've all been through some ______, but it doesn't mean we cross into other's territories and bother them.

Click to expand...

I agree. I always say to people we all have our issues, but YOURS are YOURS and MINE are MINE. You try to dump yours on me or others around me just because you don't want to deal with your **** we have problems. I just like to play devils advocate sometimes (especially on this issue) to make sure we don't all just analyze a chart based on one assumption.

I don't see why people say she has alot of fire in her chart though. Yes I see the trine, but except for saturn in Sag (which everyone born within those two whole years would have anyway) and the moon, Her planets are right at the cusp between a fire and an earth sign. I find that once a planet gets to the cusp between signs, it often takes on traits of both. Her influence is mostly Earth- primarily Virgo which is known for it's tendancy toward criticism in relationships. Another reason this stands out for me is the lieing you mentioned- Fire signs are alot of things, but decietful is not one of them. In fact the air of arrogance that can sometimes seem to come from Fire signs is often a symptom of their blunt (sometimes brutal) honesty which some people take as selfishness. Grounded yet unmerciful Earth with no water to moisten the hardness can make for a cold combination.
Quite frankly, if she has so many friends around her they're all probably just as bad as she is- if not worse for the fact that they're not helping her see what she's like. It'd be interesting to see the charts of her friends.

People with Uranus in the 7th house NEED excitement in their relationships. If relationships are going too smooth for them, they tend to create disruption in order to fulfill this need. With all those trines and Jupiter in the 11th house relationships are easy for her...Too easy. It may make it harder to get the excitement that uranus craves.

Is there a reason nobody has posted her chart yet? I don't have room in my databank to put this person's stuff

The way I see it, she has the playfulness of Leo, but has a potentially brutal Virgo Mars. This can mix badly and considering the following, she plays brutal games. She has too much self-confidence as a result of all those trines, and feels empowered to do whatever she wants, which can pan out in a very selfish direction being a Leo. She also has only negative influences on her moon. In equal-houses the stellium moves to the light-foot, experience seeking 3rd. I'm sure that cat was quite an intriguing experience for her....

I have a Leo/Virgo mix aunt in my family and she often says brutal, hurtful things.