Ukpoohbear thread appreciation!

Dirius said:

I'm a dude -.-

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Lol that was funny sorry

passiflora said:

No, I just don't have time for it and it doesn't seem important. I'm more interested in the combination of "facts" and personal experience, and advice tailored to personal experience. It's also extremely easy to read about the history of soy cultivation and use on any website dedicated to agricultural or Chinese history, instead of taking for granted what you read on a health industry website. They are trying to compensate for an industry that gleefully and profitably put soy and its byproducts into every **** thing for the last 50 years. I mean, do you buy only meat and eggs that has not been fed soy? I actually do!

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That is actually one of the reasons why I don't eat that much meat. I do live in Argentina though, and some brands of meat do come from pastured raised cows.

Personal experience by many people does suggest soy products are bad. Again, most of them consume unfermented soy products. I personally avoid them out of habit. You can't really eat soy beans raw, can you? so clearly not a very natural option if you ask me. All the food I consume could be eaten raw. Fermentation in itself is a natural process to allow some bacterial growth which can be beneficial, but then again it is still a process.

Ukpoohbear said:

Dirius thanks for sharing the info on your diet plan. The logic makes sense plus corn doesn’t really seem digestable so it makes sense. Are tubers and potatoes the same thing?

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All potatoes are tubers, but not all tubers are potatoes. Yams and sweet potatoes are also tubers. Any root vegetable that is actually an underground rhizome or stem, is a tuber.

Another way to tell if a vegetable is a tuber: it has eyes all over it, which will sprout if it's left in the cupboard too long.

I wonder if this diet is actually excluding nightshades. Potatoes are a nightshade, but sweet potatoes/yams are not.

Osamenor said:

All potatoes are tubers, but not all tubers are potatoes. Yams and sweet potatoes are also tubers. Any root vegetable that is actually an underground rhizome or stem, is a tuber.

Another way to tell if a vegetable is a tuber: it has eyes all over it, which will sprout if it's left in the cupboard too long.

I wonder if this diet is actually excluding nightshades. Potatoes are a nightshade, but sweet potatoes/yams are not.

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It does. Not sure exactly why, presumably because a large variety come from the americas. Apparently the alkaloids they contain are not exactly good for humans.

Dirius said:

Depends. According to this guy, potatoes should be avoided, they are a plant which is endemic to the american continent so might posses chemicals that are dangerous to human consumption, in the sense that they have only been in the european menu for about 500 years. He does recommend yams or sweet potatoes. Tubers such as carrots are fine. He has a long list you can check out.

One good rule of thumb you can use is: could you eat a certain food raw, digest it, and not die?

For example, you can eat raw carrots, mushrooms, lettuce, spinach, walnuts, olives, etc. and extract the nutritious value from these types of food and have no problems. You can even eat raw meat or eggs and properly digest them (the risk with raw meat or eggs is not the food itself, but bacterial and fungal contamination).

Can you eat raw beans? raw soy? raw wheat grain? Most of these food items would cause you severe problems if consumed raw, you would probably not be able to digest them, and some of them may even kill you. The only way you can consume them is by processing them, or fermenting them. Does that seem very "natural" to you?

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This all make sense I like how he has taken the rational thought about where we come from and this could account for cultural and timeline differences between the Humoural and Ayurveda diet and looking for the connection between them. Yams/sweet potatoes are softer than potatoes so they seem easier to digest already.

The soy food was not recommended on the low fodmap diet I have previously been following and so I haven’t tried it yet and I’m looking into an alternative for wheat gluten in the Seitanic recipe.

I don’t want to like eggs but that might be the thing I compensate with in my vegan mission.

Btw, you are basically a vegetarian Mon-Fri now

Osamenor said:

All potatoes are tubers, but not all tubers are potatoes. Yams and sweet potatoes are also tubers. Any root vegetable that is actually an underground rhizome or stem, is a tuber.

Another way to tell if a vegetable is a tuber: it has eyes all over it, which will sprout if it's left in the cupboard too long.

I wonder if this diet is actually excluding nightshades. Potatoes are a nightshade, but sweet potatoes/yams are not.

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I’m learning a lot! Thanks. Looking up nightshades, I’ve heard of it but don’t know exactly.

Dirius said:

It does.

Not sure exactly why, presumably because
a large variety come from the americas.
Apparently the alkaloids they contain
are not exactly good for humans.

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Ukpoohbear said:

This all make sense I like how he has taken the rational thought about where we come from and this could account for cultural and timeline differences between the Humoural and Ayurveda diet and looking for the connection between them. Yams/sweet potatoes are softer than potatoes so they seem easier to digest already.

The soy food was not recommended on the low fodmap diet I have previously been following and so I haven’t tried it yet and I’m looking into an alternative for wheat gluten in the Seitanic recipe.

I don’t want to like eggs but that might be the thing I compensate with in my vegan mission.

Btw, you are basically a vegetarian Mon-Fri now

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In my country we have a very traditional meat based diet, revolving around what we call asado (slow cooked barbacued meat), and we usually consume it during the weekend at restaurants called parrillas. In fact I go with my friends one every Friday night for dinner. And on Sundays, I have asado in family gatherings.

The thing is that the meat I like takes too long to cook at home during the busy week days, so I guess that also plays a part for me not eating that much meat during the week days. My other option would be... Mc Donalds, but I rather pass.

passiflora said:

Dirius, I used to eat exclusively uncooked foods, you can imagine how challenging that is, so .. very familiar with those lines of argument. Maybe here in the US I have access to lots more Chinese, Japanese, Korean descent people but have definitely observed significant *contextual* benefit for them of a diet including soy, not exclusively from fermented sources. Advice should always be taken in context, of yourself and of the giver. I personally think Gundry is talking to a bunch of people who have not been able to figure out how the Western diet has harmed them, his ads come on every website. He is very good in marketing.

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I'm not saying food should be eaten raw (in fact I cook most of it). The thing is that, it shows that we are inclined to eat certain types of foods, while others we can't or have trouble digesting.

When you analyze the foods he proposes you can notice there are almost no drawbacks to them. Almost every single chemical in those foods has a high nutritious value. They have almost no associated diseases, except for parasites which are not caused by the food itself.

Lets be realistic here. There is a reason certain animals eat certain foods. You can't just take a lion and feed him tofu. Why would it be different for us humans who are just another ape?

passiflora said:

Lions... don't cook. We cook. We are also gardeners, not just hunters and wildcraft gatherers.

I don't mind his theory. The first person to write about lectins for the popular press was actually the blood type diet guy. I do really hate the dispensing of someone's internally consistent but shallow theory, to people as if it applies to them equally. It doesn't apply to all people or all economies or cultures equally. Again, that's marketing :shrug:

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We cook and process foods, which does make them safer. He does state beans can be eaten if properly cooked. It is the same with tomatoes, you can de-seed them and peel them off (removing most lectins) and they become much safer. But it is fair to point out, you are nonetheless eating processed food.

But if your objective is nutrition, why even bother with processed or fermented food? you have foods that are much more nutritious and safer to begin with. I mean you can't really say that the small list I have provided is somehow bad. The core of his theory relies on the intestinal microbiota, to whom we have a symbiotic relationship. The foods that are good for us, promote bacterial growth that benefits our health. This boosts our immune system and reduces the risk of developing auto-immune diseases. They are also filled with every nutrient the body needs. The foods we should avoid are those with little to no nutritious value, or those that contain certain chemicals which are harmful towards humans.

If you have to choose between eating something that has both pros and cons, against something which only has pros, why on earth would you pick the former when the latter is much better for you?

passiflora said:

Because it is a general statement, not tailored for the individual.
What is to stop you from carrying that statement onwards, and consuming only red superfood powder he sells?

Ancestral diet should show the way to your gut health and integrity. Your specific body types should refine your choices further. Additional refinements would come from your local environmental ecology (everyone leaves this out which is a bit stupefying), your ethics, your choices, what you can procure that is fresh, organically grown, local. Sometimes you have to change ancestral diet because the evolutionary sources are so profoundly polluted.. like the mercury industrial society has dumped into the oceans that sickens the fish-eating people of the North Pole regions. Or your ancestors were warlike brutes who didn't live very long, and their lifestyle just can't be adapted to your own in any meaningful way. You are Argentinian, but I assume European Argentinian, and not Native, otherwise the foods from the Americas WOULD be your foods, and not so bad.

I've tried a vegan diet of no legumes, with protein coming only from vegetables and nuts, and it is extremely difficult to sustain for most people, let alone those with Ukpoohbear's body type, and the theory alone cannot sustain gut healing and balanced health.

It doesn't matter if you have mentally chosen the best diet in the world, if you cannot observe it in practice.

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Everything you just said applies to every food in the planet. Soy is one of the most genetically altered foods on the planet, so are legumes, so is rise, etc. Nothing about the diet I'm following is revolutionary. To my understanding green vegetables, nuts, olives, etc. have been part of our staple diet for a long time. At most the recommendation is to cut certain foods out of our diet.

I have also never said that nuts should be your only source of protein. I only recommended them because they are a good source of vegetable protein with omega-3 fatty acids, cheap, widely available, and pretty safe for consumption. They also happen to be the highest protein content in vegetables to my knowledge (in fact more protein per serving than your suggestions). You also have brussel sprouts or broccoli which are high in protein. You have avocado fruits which are a good source of omega-3 fatty acids. In my case I also eat eggs and some meat. There are brands that offer grass-fed animal products. This is true for most of the western world. The choices are not limited to the examples I have provided, there are many more.

As for the guy himself. Sure he is trying to make money out of his theory. I have no problem with that, considering I am a huge defender of capitalism. Its fair to point out that most of the info is available for free, and at most he sells some dietary supplements. Also, he gets hate from most of the food industry experts. I don't buy supplements because I don't need them if I can eat a well balanced meal. I also don't follow his diet to the rule. He recommends fruit should be eaten only during the summer season, but I eat fruit all the time, because I can burn off the extra calories from sugar while working out, while I get specific vitamins out of food (such as bananas or oranges).

In essence I agree that every person should follow their own diet plan. But I have never suggested anyone here should follow what I follow, or to the rules presented by some guy on the internet. I'm merely providing you with some information, some of it which is backed by science, and some of it which is theoretical. You can do with it as you please, and you can ignore it all together. But for example, it seems UKpoohbear did not know walnuts contained protein. Now she does and she can include them in her diet plan, if she so chooses.

passiflora said:

Because it is a general statement, not tailored for the individual.
What is to stop you from carrying that statement onwards, and consuming only red superfood powder he sells?

Ancestral diet should show the way to your gut health and integrity. Your specific body types should refine your choices further. Additional refinements would come from your local environmental ecology (everyone leaves this out which is a bit stupefying), your ethics, your choices, what you can procure that is fresh, organically grown, local. Sometimes you have to change ancestral diet because the evolutionary sources are so profoundly polluted.. like the mercury industrial society has dumped into the oceans that sickens the fish-eating people of the North Pole regions. Or your ancestors were warlike brutes who didn't live very long, and their lifestyle just can't be adapted to your own in any meaningful way. You are Argentinian, but I assume European Argentinian, and not Native, otherwise the foods from the Americas WOULD be your foods, and not so bad.

I've tried a vegan diet of no legumes, with protein coming only from vegetables and nuts, and it is extremely difficult to sustain for most people, let alone those with Ukpoohbear's body type, and the theory alone cannot sustain gut healing and balanced health.

It doesn't matter if you have mentally chosen the best diet in the world, if you cannot observe it in practice.

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Dirius said:

In my country we have a very traditional meat based diet, revolving around what we call asado (slow cooked barbacued meat), and we usually consume it during the weekend at restaurants called parrillas. In fact I go with my friends one every Friday night for dinner. And on Sundays, I have asado in family gatherings.

The thing is that the meat I like takes too long to cook at home during the busy week days, so I guess that also plays a part for me not eating that much meat during the week days. My other option would be... Mc Donalds, but I rather pass.

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passiflora said:

Because it is a general statement, not tailored for the individual.
What is to stop you from carrying that statement onwards, and consuming only red superfood powder he sells?

Ancestral diet should show the way to your gut health and integrity. Your specific body types should refine your choices further. Additional refinements would come from your local environmental ecology (everyone leaves this out which is a bit stupefying), your ethics, your choices, what you can procure that is fresh, organically grown, local. Sometimes you have to change ancestral diet because the evolutionary sources are so profoundly polluted.. like the mercury industrial society has dumped into the oceans that sickens the fish-eating people of the North Pole regions. Or your ancestors were warlike brutes who didn't live very long, and their lifestyle just can't be adapted to your own in any meaningful way. You are Argentinian, but I assume European Argentinian, and not Native, otherwise the foods from the Americas WOULD be your foods, and not so bad.

I've tried a vegan diet of no legumes, with protein coming only from vegetables and nuts, and it is extremely difficult to sustain for most people, let alone those with Ukpoohbear's body type, and the theory alone cannot sustain gut healing and balanced health.

It doesn't matter if you have mentally chosen the best diet in the world, if you cannot observe it in practice.

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passiflora said:

Yes, it’s terrible what the cruelly-named “green revolution” seems to have done to soybeans. However, you can source soybeans that are not genetically modified and organically grown from better organic shops. Making a little tofu at home from organic soybeans will not be what kills her. I not sure what either you or Jupiter are talking about, but it doesn’t seem to be the health of Ukpoohbear, who is vegetarian, going vegan, and not able to digest half of what you mentioned due to IBS.

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The more reason to at least pay attention towards the diet I suggest, which in theory its meant to solve some of the problems related to auto-immune diseases such as diabetes, leaky gut and IBS. Most of the people on the diet have reported reducing or removing the symptons.

Excuse me, but "half of what I mentioned"? which particular food item I suggested would not be able to be digested by Ukpoohbear or any other person with IBS? I would also like to see if she can confirm the statement you made. Because that one actually seems like a grand allegation, the kind you seem to dislike.

passiflora said:

Broccoli, brussels sprouts, one cup of olive oil. Again, not tailored to what we'd already been discussing. It just doesn't make sense to give very specific criticisms like you did "soy is the worst thing for you!" without even trying to understand where the recommendation came from and what it encompassed. no, you'd rather promote your personal diet. maybe it's to be expected on the internet - most people are not actually trained advisors. even physicians can have terrible advising skills.

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I never said she should eat that. I said there are plenty of options for vegetable protein in response to your post, and I used those two as examples, because those are some that I knew about. My suggestion for her regarding a vegetale source was to try walnuts which were rich in protein and omega-3 fatty acids. I also never said she should drink a "cup" of olive oil a day, I only mentioned that I drank a cup a day.

I'm not promoting anything. You guys were talking about diet and health, and I offered my personal experience with food and diet, and I made a few suggestions, then provided some information regarding my own diet and knowledge. Or is there a monopoly on this thread about what type of diet we can discuss?

And finally, I pointed out some data regarding the negative effects of soy. One you didn't bother to refute (according to you, because it was not worth it), despite the fact that it seems to bother you each time I repeat it.

I don’t really see any diet as being wrong, I’m genuinely picking up information from all sides and trying to work out the general rule.

Like, as well as following the humoural diet,it seems a good idea to avoid night shade vegetables too. Rice instead of potatoes. Unfermented soy (when I try it). I’ve even found a recipe for seitan that does not use wheat gluten, it uses beans and rice to bulk the mixture instead, which may not be much better, so for now I’m going to stick to eggs for the main source of protein and nuts and making nut butter in the near future. Eating plums and watermelon for fruit and I’m going to make soup using a tin of tomatoes which should be safer than fresh and red lentils, just because I still need to rethink my soup recipe, avoiding cayenne this time as it’s considered a night shade (even though so are tomatoes but tinned is less evil.)

We will all have our individual differences we need to make allowances for like has been agreed previously and taking into account timeline differences of older diets, and looking at modern approaches too.

All information is fine - we are a traditional and modern dietary board here unlike those difficult astrologers

I think the confusion has come because there’s so much confusion around diets in the first place.

Ukpoohbear said:

I think the confusion has come because there’s so much confusion around diets in the first place.

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Trust your body to tell you what to eat. And, what not to eat.