If you'll all allow me to make a presentation for my case using Sabian Symbols here I'll demonstrate whay I believe in the Asc. +
-
formula.
For my self the comes to 08*
26'
In the reverse formula it comes to 25*
41'
The Sabian symbol for the 9th of Leo is [by Dane Rudhyar's "An Astrological Mandala"'
"
GLASS BLOWERS SHAPE BEAUTIFUL VASES WITH THEIR CONTROLLED BREATHING.
KEYNOTE: The need to involve one's most spiritual and vital energies in the creative act' if it is to produce significant and beautiful new forms.
The breath represents the power of the spirit, animator of all living manifestations. Because the glass blower uses his breath to shape the glass vessels, he is a fitting symbol of how deeply any creative individual has to involve his total being in his creation. He is also using the fire of the spirit — transpersonal inspiration — or, in another sense, the fire of deeply felt emotions. Any creative activity which does not involve both the 'breath' and the 'fire' cannot transform into beautiful artworks — or indeed into any new form of order — the raw materials, remains of the past (the 'sand').
This fourth stage of the twenty-sixth sequence symbolically shows us the technique required in true and successful transforming activity. It always implies
CREATIVE INTENSITY."
...by the reverse formula, Sun + Po Fortune - Sun
the 26th degree of Aquarius, the Sabian Symbol is:
[ibid.]
"
A GARAGE MAN TESTING A CAR'S BATTERY WITH A HYDROMETER.
KEYNOTE: Skill in applying knowledge of natural laws to the solution of everyday problems resulting from life in our technological society.
Here we see a man using his analytical mind to check up on the operation of the machines his inventive genius produced. This simple commonplace operation is used here as an indication of how deeply technology involves us in small matters, yet matters which in some circumstances could make the difference between life and death — i.e. a mechanical failure in a car on a crowded freeway. The need for 'management' therefore is seen to affect every detail of our individual lives; this applies as well to the complexities of interpersonal, social or political relationships, because our modern society is indeed like a huge machine speeding on dangerous ground. Safety depends on available power.
This is the first of five degree symbols in the sixty-sixth sequence. It tells us that we constantly need the use of our intellectual power of observation and analysis to check on the effectiveness of the energies at our disposal. It is a symbol of
MENTAL EFFICIENCY."
...that is easy for me to discern as it is the "Creative" type of individuals that make up the Noble & Illustrious people I know... I know very few techies and those few are for the most part very mundane in their pursuits and goals.
If you will allow me to use the chart I've been promoting as the accurate chart for the natal of the U.S.A [the zero hour, July 4, 1776, Philadelphia, Penn. chart] then the Sun - Po Fortune forumula produces 08*
27'... the 9th degree of Sag.
[ibid.]
"
A MOTHER LEADS HER SMALL CHILD STEP BY STEP UP A STEEP STAIRWAY.
KEYNOTE: The need in any social situation to assist the less evolved in their management of the problems which society requires its members to solve.
A staircase does not present a natural difficulty to a very young child. Man builds stairs and therefore is responsible for assisting the child to climb them step by step. Social and cultural living is not "natural." The child must first be taught by example, then helped along as he imitates as well as he can the grownup's behavior. Climbing stairs is only an illustration of a general process. Every generation must involve itself in teaching the next even the simplest skills needed for social existence.
At the fourth stage of the preceding five-fold sequence we saw parents encouraging a little child to walk. Walking is a natural human function; climbing stairs is a skill made necessary by the building of several-storied houses — a product of civilization. What is implied here is
SOCIAL CONCERN for the less evolved of society's members."
The reverse formula for the U.S.A. natal chart is
04*
32'...the 5th of Virgo.
[ibid.]
"
A MAN BECOMING AWARE OF NATURE SPIRITS AND NORMALLY UNSEEN SPIRITUAL AGENCIES.
KEYNOTE: The opening of new levels of consciousness.
In the first of this sequence of five symbols we saw the individual seeking to bring out of everyday contacts a consciousness of significant form and meaning. Now, as the sequence ends, a further stage of realization is shown in its initial and relatively primitive character. The consciousness is gradually reaching beyond physical characteristics and becoming aware of energy processes, i.e. of the dynamism of forces which externalize themselves as life forms.
This is the last stage of the thirty-first five-fold sequence of phases of the cyclic process of consciousness. The mind in its objectivizing and analytical character always tends to give 'name and form'(nama and rupa in Sanskrit) to that which it contacts as energy process. It 'mages forth' energy or feeling, relating it to more or less familiar sense experience. We call this
IMAGINATION."
...well that might seem like a bit of a tough call but I have to go with the former symbol...it is those individuals that are concerned about our fellow citizens welfare that i believe are the true Noble and Illustrious individuals.
one more example would be what I derived from the chart I've proposed is that of Yeshu'a/Jesus of Nazareth I was going to leave that example for that threadl..although I will say it's pretty convincing as to the first formula also...that is if one believes in the veracity of that chart to begin with.
The Sun - Po Fortune formula produces 24*
19'...the 25th of Libra
[ibid.]
"
THE SIGHT OF AN AUTUMN LEAF BRINGS TO A PILGRIM THE SUDDEN REVELATION OF THE MYSTERY OF LIFE AND DEATH.
KEYNOTE: The ability to discover in every experience a transcendent or cosmic meaning.
The mind open to the multifarious wonders of natural processes, because it sees everything with fresh eyes, not only witnesses simple facts, but pierces through appearances and perceives the great rhythms of universal life. Without such a faculty the aspirant to spiritual realities is always looking for 'elsewhere.' Yet the spirit, life, God is ever present, here and now. And every death is an omen of rebirth.
At this fifth stage of the forty-first five-fold sequence of phases of the cosmic process, the implications of the four preceding stages are brought to a new state of consciousness which is truly the spiritual state. It is a state of
CLAIR-SEEING, or 'seeing through.' This world is illusion only to the individual who cannot see through its phenomena and fails to apprehend the reality these phenomena reveal even as they conceal it."
...which is my 12th House cusp, btw, and my Asc is a symbol of Autumn leaves on trees representing the "Transfiguration"... Wat I'm trying to convey is that the 25th of Libra is very much like those I would assume he felt were his Noble and Illustrious associates.
the reverse 07*
07', that is the 8th degree of Virgo.
[ibid.]
"
A FIVE-YEAR-OLD CHILD TAKES A FIRST DANCING LESSON.
KEYNOTE: Learning to use one's capacity for emotional self-expression according to cultural standards.
The process of emotional experiencing under controlled situations is shown now to demand self-induced, active movement; yet the movements are still conditioned, if not totally determined, by cultural and thus collective patterns. The individual can express his own individual character only according to traditional modes. He is still entirely responsible to his teacher or guru. Yet new perspectives are now open to him.
At this third stage of the five-fold thirty-second sequence of symbols we witness at work the transitional phase which may lead to mastery. The child-consciousness is still dominated by some form of authority; but if the child is 'five years old,' the implication is that he is entering ' the level of conscious manhood, represented by the number 5, the five-pointed star which outlines at least the
POTENTIALITY OF INITIATION."
...hmmm, when I first read this symbol I thought it was easily dismissed but upon re-reading it I now can see a possibility.
Maybe I am wrong... maybe it's that I know so very
very few techies, that are of the Albert Schweitzer variety that then is the reason why the title goes to the reverse [as I termed it] formula...[?]
...the thing that I believe I have to tilt it to the Sun - Po Fortune formula is what Rudhyar stated as "according to cultural standards" and the Man from Nazareth was for the most part preaching about freeing themselves from cultural traditions/standards ...re-evaluating, simplifying and re-formulating most of those...doing away with some of those standards altogether.
...but it seems to me both formula produced rather honorable descriptions as applied to people...it does make sense in that it is a bit like the difference between the formulas for the Po Spirit/Soul and the Part of Fortune in that both produce Parts are of a benevolent nature...I shouldn't have been so hasty as to assume it to be a Part of Losers...but then what does the same arrangement substituting the Moon for the Sun in each formula produce?
...it could even be that one was originally considered to be of 'Powerful Friends' and the other formula friends of Nobility and personal lustre but not necessarily of Power...
verily, this is a tricky Part to figure out and might best be just considered under probation until one collects enough examples for one way over the other.
I've apparently stuck my foot so far down my throat that I can now see it from this other end. 
or maybe something similar. it might fit for yours, i can't say but it does conjure a memory of you telling me about your possible greatest influence dealing with something of a scientific nature.
