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Predictive Astrology This is the place to discuss the astrology of the past, present, and future. Includes eclipses, transits, progressions, planetary returns.


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  #51  
Unread 10-11-2013, 06:13 PM
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Re: Relationships and Morality of Predicting Those In Natal As Well As Horary Astrolo

In regarding to predicting relationship as such. I think it will be moral to predict timing when you have the skills if not sure just saying "Not sure". Can point out some potential issues but should remind recipient that relationship always requires both side to work together. And promote the understanding of ups and downs in life just the necessary part of our lesson to become a better person and no one is doomed for life as long as we have the right attitude. It is not fate that makes us depressed but the way we seeing it. Even a moon affected by Saturn can cause depression should also emphasis all transit and progression will go and even in natal we can still seek external source to improve the situation.


Last edited by poyi; 10-11-2013 at 07:55 PM.
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Unread 10-11-2013, 06:24 PM
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Re: Relationships and Morality of Predicting Those In Natal As Well As Horary Astrolo

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Originally Posted by AstroLogical View Post
To "predict" is not moral. To highlight potential is.

We, as students of astrology, inherit an ancient linage of knowledge and insight, this is true. What is also true, we inherit the dubious title of being "false prophets" to many. The problem began in the human ego where some astrologers of long ago and since—despite their gift to understand these cosmic matters, left the impression that what the stars told them was absolute; a done deal—FATED. The power to influence a person's belief carries a huge moral responsibility. Had we, as modern astrologers, inherited a history void of this perceived mystical power to "foretell the future" the art and science of astrology would be more widely embraced and recognized for what it is—a tool for self understanding.

The fundamental problem is some astrologers allow the believers and curious to think astrology is something more than a road map with multiple potential options. Arguably a map is better than no map at all and an astrologer worth his or her salt should always emphasize the element of freewill in choosing which road to take. In some ways we become partners walking along that road with the person we are counseling. If we are in error we may not be alone in the outcome. The astro guide may point out potential chemistry matches in a "relationship study" and where compatibility, friction or conflict may exist yet the emphasis of choice and freewill must be presented in balance to the apparent "FATED" quality of a relationship match. To let a client walk away believing "It is so written in then stars" is just plain wrong.

It is true that astrologers, even non astrologers pierce the veil and receive a glimpse of future events from time to time, however, in most cases the astrologer is reading the chart to the level of their personal intellectual and intuitive understanding—that's all. Self honesty and personal humility on the part of the astrologer is paramount. We all love to be loved, respected and recognized for having something unique and special to offer yet we must remember our gift is for service to others not for our own sense of personal power. When astrological information is passed on in a reading the matter of personal choice and personal responsibility should always be highlighted. Nobody should ever leave an astrologer with the impression "an outcome is certain or fated." Such honesty will do more to further the respect for our study than not.

Having said this, I believe it is moral to "council" people who want to also have an astrological perspective of a potential relationship, etc. As long as we do not leave them with an air of "absolute knowing." The fact of the matter is, some people will believe just about anything so care must be taken in what we as astrologers feed into their belief.

This offers a moral balance.

A*L

There is another thread that looks at whether there is free will or not. I happen to be one of those that believe your life is mapped out and therefore, there is no free will.

With that, your argument does not make sense to me but, it may to others.
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Unread 10-11-2013, 07:29 PM
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Re: Relationships and Morality of Predicting Those In Natal As Well As Horary Astrolo

There is some agreement here that a beginner is entitled to answer questions on an Internet forum (though as you all know, I draw the line at death prediction) but with massive amounts of humility.

I first started to read charts on-line for people in late 2007 over at Astrodienst, after roughly 17 years of study, which involved only modest numbers of chart-readings for real-time people other than myself. I was constantly prefacing my posts with phrases like, "I am not a professional, but...." or "I am a beginner, so your feedback would be greatly appreciated, because this is how I learn."

After a while, a few other chart-readers suggested I simply get over my waffling, and just read the chart! But I still give mostly qualified assessments. "You may..." or "you probably...." or better yet, "oftentimes people with this chart placement have....."

This latter approach sets up a much better dynamic. In synastry, you don't have to say, "With your sun squaring his sun, you've got ego conflicts galore." Rather, try something like, "Couples with squared suns often get into ego conflicts."

Paul, if I were to get into horary (and with my open-ended beliefs about the future, I never say never) I would probably approach a question in the same way. Something like, "I don't read a lot of horary charts, but this one looks like X Y Z, with the result that this relationship probably will not work out." You can then go on to suggest other things by way of strengthening the querent's self-esteem.

Right now I have several reasons why I don't do horary; partly relating to my views about the future, which I do see as more open-ended. I also believe that human wisdom and maturity is better served by learning how to cope with risk and uncertainty.

This doesn't mean that I am entirely ignorant of horary. In my universe a chart will express itself somehow, but we can influence or even choose what variants of that expression will manifest. I recognize that horary charts, depending on how they fall out, can suggest mitigating actions (contra- astral determinism) but by this point I'd rather work with a natal chart and with familiar methods whereby I don't have to consult books prior to responding.

However, I hope we are all still on our learning curves! And ideally, this goes beyond the techniques to be ongoing students of human nature and human experience.
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Last edited by waybread; 10-11-2013 at 07:34 PM.
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Unread 10-11-2013, 08:32 PM
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Re: Relationships and Morality of Predicting Those In Natal As Well As Horary Astrolo

I read Astrological's post again. I think I must had got your message wrong and I seem to sound confusing myself in my reply.

In regard to free will, I think life path is destined, but we do have the free will within and above the wheel of fate, on choosing what attitude to see it and to allow ourselves to gain understanding/happiness or suffering from the situation.

If an astrologer is confident with his/her skills also delivering with caring, sensitive, good counseling skills. I don't think it will be immoral to predict. To me is not the prediction itself as long as you got the skills, the differences really would be the way of delivering the reading.
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Last edited by poyi; 10-11-2013 at 08:54 PM. Reason: grammar
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Unread 10-11-2013, 08:48 PM
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Re: Relationships and Morality of Predicting Those In Natal As Well As Horary Astrolo

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
There is some agreement here that a beginner is entitled to answer questions on an Internet forum (though as you all know, I draw the line at death prediction) but with massive amounts of humility.

I agree that this is a perfect forum for beginner's to sharpen their skills but I might disagree that they should do it with massive amounts of humility. People are not charged at this site and a beginner may spend massive amounts of time looking at charts and then formulating their answers. IMHO, where else will someone spend their time giving you this free information that could cost hundreds of dollars at a professional astrologer.

I think Poyi does a wonderful job with the approach to interpretations -- the identification of being new, provides the interpretation, and lastly .. asks for feedback. I see no hint of being "less" or "humility" rather, what I see is professionalism.
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Unread 10-11-2013, 09:02 PM
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Re: Relationships and Morality of Predicting Those In Natal As Well As Horary Astrolo

Are we arguing semantics, Marinka? By "massive amounts of humility" I don't mean abject low self-esteem. Hardly. Should I have said "serious awareness of our own shortcomings"? But let's take the opposite of humility: Hubris. Conceit. Chart reading can be time consuming, but that doesn't justify colossal insensitivity.

Astrologers are fallible people. We need to recognize it and not imagine that we possess the God's eye view.

I have read many of Poyi's posts and agree that she does a super job with people. (Except me, possibly???)
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Unread 10-11-2013, 09:19 PM
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Re: Relationships and Morality of Predicting Those In Natal As Well As Horary Astrolo

I consider every single reading as a learning opportunity and a way for learning how to become a better astrologer in serious term.

I value their chart, their stories, information. I love to feel and experience their life through reading the chart with them and I wish I could provide better and better skills in chart interpretation as well as counseling.

I value astrology greatly. It had transformed my life and attitude of seeing life and sufferings. It had also allowed me to learn the lesson of compassion and forgiveness knowing all the crisis and pain in the past were part of life to mold me into this version of myself. I appreciated my life had been to me the ups and downs. I see values of them and I wish people can also find the positive perspective during difficult time.

Predictive astrology assists people to see life as a bigger picture and not to focus on the past got stuck to it and overwhelmed by the current frustrating situation; instead to focus logically and objectively on what actions they could take and what attitude they should have to get through the current time and be prepared of the future with Again better attitude. I think nothing morally wrong on providing predictions when you have the skills. It is the matter of learning and testing, with the agreement from your recipient and the willingness of the recipient to do their own objective reflection and make decision in their own life.

You may think how do you know if that person in real life is what they claimed they are on the forum. The fact is if you have the skills, you can clearly see through the chart. So again, if you have the skills, then go ahead, nothing immoral about that. It will be only immoral if you can predict but not providing the appropriate counseling to assist your recipient. Of course you can't hold their hands forever, eventually you need to let the baby to walk on his own feet, but you gave them the information and is up to them. Guide and let go.

To find out rather a person is vulnerable or not. I think all people come to ask for serious matter in their life is vulnerable, but I also have respect and faith in their ability to handle their life. The only one that I have doubt will be those under 18 years old but then I am not here to be their parent either. They are the owner of their own life. I respect their decisions in life. I give them encouragement to move toward the more positive direction, but if they refused and unable to do so, I will not force myself on them. That's free will, right? I respect their thoughts and feelings. I consciously know I will never truly understand and I will never know everything. So I respect their decisions. When you show your respect and willingness to build a bond with your recipient then you can make profound influences for better.
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Unread 10-11-2013, 10:18 PM
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Re: Relationships and Morality of Predicting Those In Natal As Well As Horary Astrolo

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Predictive astrology assists people to see life as a bigger picture and not to focus on the past got stuck to it and overwhelmed by the current frustrating situation; instead to focus logically and objectively on what actions they could take and what attitude they should have to get through the current time
Poyi, why do you attach these values to a definition? A prediction is a forcast of events, period. Whether that is good or bad is an individual's choice, please be aware of that. Telling someone what actions to take does not mean they will agree or that they will take them. A prediction does not induce amnesia. It is just a prediction.

I am not being argumentative. We are talking about morals, right? So lets put the variables on the table. One of those is prediction. Cool. Value judgements are not on the table because they are the property of the native and there is also no way of knowing truly.

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You may think how do you know if that person in real life is what they claimed they are on the forum. The fact is if you have the skills, you can clearly see through the chart. So again, if you have the skills, then go ahead, nothing immoral about that.
On a forum, one has no way of knowing whether the person presenting the chart is the native or is someone related to the native. Ethically speaking, there is a sizeable difference.

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It will be only immoral if you can predict but not providing the appropriate counseling to assist your recipient.
As Waybread mentiones above, counseling is a bona fide profession/specialism. Unspecialised counseling can do more harm than good, especially if given by people who think they are "right." Of course I talk in general.

Waybread said something above that really underlines why I do not value astrological prediction as a helpful tool:

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I also believe that human wisdom and maturity is better served by learning how to cope with risk and uncertainty.
Oftentimes what seems like help is not worth the price (metaphorically speaking) and that is why I say that I do not think it is healthy for astrologers to attach value judgements to the concept of "predictions," because predictions work only in the context of human nature which is built to sustain life healthily without third person prophecy of the future.

Last edited by Mandy; 10-11-2013 at 10:47 PM.
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Unread 10-11-2013, 10:29 PM
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Yes moral standard as I previously said is only a subjective value we learned through cultural, religious and education background as well as life experiences on top of your personality as well.

People are all different. I don't expect anyone to agree my points. In term of counselling even the professional with paper don't necessary do better job. Many variations and just impossible to get a definite answer in term or moral or not. I think this topic is impossible to find a common ground. If so then there won't be individuality. And no free will also. We can only follow our conscience and yet that is subjective. Morality is subjective and can never be calculated or measured by any thing. Laws and rules yet again is subjective based on the cultural background . In Singapore eating and having chewing gum is crime as an example.

Again I don't expect anyone to support my points or belief. I respect your points and I can only continue with mine with caution and continue to review and reflect to adjust my attitude and learn from experiences. I am not telling anyone to do what I do. I am not god. I can't be perfect and so as everyone else. But I am very honest about that and will not pretend I have the final answer. If I presented myself that way. I would like to say sorry about that.

Because the subject is subjective I could only give subject views and it is no way everyone thinking the same.

Last edited by poyi; 10-11-2013 at 10:32 PM.
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Unread 10-11-2013, 10:51 PM
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Re: Relationships and Morality of Predicting Those In Natal As Well As Horary Astrolo

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There is another thread that looks at whether there is free will or not. I happen to be one of those that believe your life is mapped out and therefore, there is no free will.

With that, your argument does not make sense to me but, it may to others.
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Marinka

So, the stars "compelled" you to submit your reply? And here I thought you had made the decision to enter your thoughts on your own.

Perhaps if you consider the "stars" as representing the will of a Divine Operating System (OS) like a computer has, and this word processing app that we are using to type our unique thoughts and opinions to each other as the expression our freewill. What we choose to write as an individual is the expression within the parameters of the Divine OS. A chart is simply a snapshot of the OS in time, providing us with insight as to how our individual potential can best be expressed in concert with the Divine OS.

So, I would agree that there is an element of fundamental predetermination within the OS, how it operates and how we function within it... yet we do express personal preference and choice throughout our life experience. Both the Divine OS and our individual freewill work in tandem—when we are in sync, anyway. It is when we as individuals choose to run our own OS and attempt to override the Divine OS that we smack head-on into the difficulties of life. When we are in harmony with the Divine OS life flows along much easier... however, we always have the choice to be agreeable or not and the potential to understand the cause and effect of our freewill.

Do we have anymore agreement now?

I am personally responsible for opinions and views freely expressed in this commentary.
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Unread 10-11-2013, 10:57 PM
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Re: Relationships and Morality of Predicting Those In Natal As Well As Horary Astrolo

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Are we arguing semantics, Marinka? By "massive amounts of humility" I don't mean abject low self-esteem. Hardly. Should I have said "serious awareness of our own shortcomings"? But let's take the opposite of humility: Hubris. Conceit. Chart reading can be time consuming, but that doesn't justify colossal insensitivity.

Astrologers are fallible people. We need to recognize it and not imagine that we possess the God's eye view.

I have read many of Poyi's posts and agree that she does a super job with people. (Except me, possibly???)

How is it any better when you say "serious awareness of our own shortcomings" rather than "massive amounts of humility". Both statement seem to be degrading the abilities of a student in astrology (IMO).

Your statement "Astrologers are fallible people. We need to recognize it and not imagine that we possess the God's eye view.", is dismissive of the predictive talents of astrologers that have focused in this area. And, I'm not quite sure why there are religious references on a site primarily dedicated to astrology - the two really don't mix well ... oil & water.
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Unread 10-11-2013, 11:18 PM
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Re: Relationships and Morality of Predicting Those In Natal As Well As Horary Astrolo

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_______________________________________
Marinka

So, the stars "compelled" you to submit your reply? And here I thought you had made the decision to enter your thoughts on your own.

Perhaps if you consider the "stars" as representing the will of a Divine Operating System (OS) like a computer has, and this word processing app that we are using to type our unique thoughts and opinions to each other as the expression our freewill. What we choose to write as an individual is the expression within the parameters of the Divine OS. A chart is simply a snapshot of the OS in time, providing us with insight as to how our individual potential can best be expressed in concert with the Divine OS.

So, I would agree that there is an element of fundamental predetermination within the OS, how it operates and how we function within it... yet we do express personal preference and choice throughout our life experience. Both the Divine OS and our individual freewill work in tandem—when we are in sync, anyway. It is when we as individuals choose to run our own OS and attempt to override the Divine OS that we smack head-on into the difficulties of life. When we are in harmony with the Divine OS life flows along much easier... however, we always have the choice to be agreeable or not and the potential to understand the cause and effect of our freewill.

Do we have anymore agreement now?

I am personally responsible for opinions and views freely expressed in this commentary.
A*L

Very thoughtful reply but, it does not bring us closer to agreement, not that it is necessary (or even preferable) that we agree.

As someone that focuses entirely on prediction, I see that we live our life according to the base that is given within our natal charts and with the building of that base with the transits that occur as we move through life. The choices we make in our decisions is predetermined by who we are and as a result, our path through life is already set by that. It may seem that you are making a decision from free will but, is it really? Isn't that decision based on who you are and what circumstance you find yourself in .... and isn't that shown in the natal chart and transits?

An astrologer may not be able to read an entire life path just because our art has been put to the side and neglected while other sciences have grown.

Someone said it well on this site -- think it was Bob. The example he used was a women that is being abused. That woman is just living out her chart and transits and that would show if she moves past it or is eventually destroyed by it. The same for a serial murderer - it's identified by the chart and the transits made to it.

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Unread 10-11-2013, 11:20 PM
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Re: Relationships and Morality of Predicting Those In Natal As Well As Horary Astrolo

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How is it any better when you say "serious awareness of our own shortcomings" rather than "massive amounts of humility". Both statement seem to be degrading the abilities of a student in astrology (IMO).

Your statement "Astrologers are fallible people. We need to recognize it and not imagine that we possess the God's eye view.", is dismissive of the predictive talents of astrologers that have focused in this area. And, I'm not quite sure why there are religious references on a site primarily dedicated to astrology - the two really don't mix well ... oil & water.
Au! contraire

The predictive talents of astrologers can be over rated... especially by astrologers. BTW - Oil and water do share the same universe, only separating because of gravity. And through the Oneness of All we know and All we don't yet know, both have a place and complement one another. It is only through human ego that we find separation, division and miss realizing the Unity that exists... thus proving ourselves to be quite "fallible."

Religion and astrology; two words but alike in that they are both "belief systems" that attempt to explain our relationship to the universe. If you do not recognize the similarity perhaps personal bias is blocking your view. It is always beneficial to see how things are in fact similar rather than only the apparent differences.

A*L
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Unread 10-11-2013, 11:56 PM
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Re: Relationships and Morality of Predicting Those In Natal As Well As Horary Astrolo

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As someone that focuses entirely on prediction, I see that we live our life according to the base that is given within our natal charts and with the building of that base with the transits that occur as we move through life. The choices we make in our decisions is predetermined by who we are and as a result, our path through life is already set by that. It may seem that you are making a decision from free will but, is it really? Isn't that decision based on who you are and what circumstance you find yourself in .... and isn't that shown in the natal chart and transits?
_____________________________________

Obviously, one can not argue against your point because like mine it is virtually un-provable through debate. Personal insight and experience is the only way one can find out for them self.

Identical twins with only seconds difference in their birth time can have dramatically different outcomes—all the way through life. There will be many core elements that are similar but show me an astrologer who can separate the two and "see" their varied fates. Of course you can say no matter what—it is destined—whether an astrologer is "good enough" to see it or not. Then why bother looking at the future? Knowing the outcome will have no relation to what happens. Prediction in a fated universe is a zero point gain. Might as well kick back and just enjoy the ride. (well, we should be enjoying the ride anyway, however...)

I agree we have a beginning set of potentials and as life unfolds we exploit those potentials or we don't. Survival in it's most primitive sense is a good example of that. Your improvise. You do what you need to survive. That requires real time decision making and an active freewill.

It has been pointed out in the study of mankind that we are unique among animals because we have the ability to take patterns of meaning and reformulate those patterns into new patterns of meaning. That ability is the spark of intelligence and implementation of freewill.

I'll leave it at that. I've enjoyed the exchange. Be well.
A*L
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Unread 10-12-2013, 12:35 AM
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Re: Relationships and Morality of Predicting Those In Natal As Well As Horary Astrolo

Marinka, I see no problem with "massive amounts of humility." It shocks me that anybody would. I am not saying that somehow, in a chart reading, astrologers turn themselves into servile sniveling doormats. (How's that for a mixed metaphor?) This doesn't mean one's inherent self-confidence disappears.

On a good day, I view the natal chart as offering a window on the soul. I question the motives of anyone who sees the chart in materialist* terms. Reading a chart (on a good day) is something I approach with awe. Why? Because in my metaphysics, you get some idea of why this soul incarnated: As astrologer Alice Howell put it, the chart is a temenos, or sacred space. As you explore the chart, you can see what the soul hoped to develop, and the challenges as well as assets it brought to its earth life.

On an average day, I am probably as materialist (*note: as a philosophy not as a focus on material goods) as anyone else. But somewhere in the back of my head I hope I come from recognizing what a huge and awe-inspiring privilege it is to get this kind of a glimpse into another human being.

In my metaphysics, a soul is part of what God is. Namaste! Lit., "I bow to the God in you."

And soooo often we see the opposite. The Joan McEvers book gives many examples of professional astrologers whose utter lack of humility is disgraceful. I can only imagine that their egos feed on the authority they feel over vulnerable people.

Yes, and to second Astrological, if you believe in determinism, there is no point in reading horoscopes for anyone. Que sera, sera. You had no choice in what you just posted. Chunks of rock hurtling through the solar system made you do it.

Ptolemy addressed this question ca. 150 AD. He was a staunch determinist, but he said that the chart usually indicated how someone might mitigate a problem. He gave the example of the doctor. If a patient had an illness and fatalism were absolute, there would be no point in the doctor's treatment.

You know the saying, "When God closes a door, he opens a window." Hopefully astrologers giving unwanted news can assist the natives to see their own windows.
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I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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Last edited by waybread; 10-12-2013 at 12:37 AM.
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Re: Relationships and Morality of Predicting Those In Natal As Well As Horary Astrolo

Marinka, basically the chart will "out" in some way. But there are many ways in which that can happen, from a full and empowering expression, to some form of psychological projection or manifesting some really unpleasant potentials.

This gets interesting in synastry, because you have not one but two (or even 3-4) charts to look at. Sometimes people more or less OK on their own become more empowered or more disempowered by their relationship with another person. For example, his Venus may trine her Mars, and his Mars may conjunct her Venus. This is hot stuff in synastry; yet if his Mars and Venus are part of a huge see-saw opposition and her Venus-Mars are part of a T-square, they may aggravate one another's unresolved chart formations.

Question for everyone. If prediction in astrology somehow vanished, would you still practice it? Why or why not?
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Unread 10-12-2013, 01:08 AM
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Re: Relationships and Morality of Predicting Those In Natal As Well As Horary Astrolo

waybread

I know, I said I was stepping back from this discussion but your last two posts were inspiring, even brilliant. I couldn't agree more. Thank you for lifting me up a notch or two.

A*L
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Unread 10-12-2013, 01:38 AM
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Re: Relationships and Morality of Predicting Those In Natal As Well As Horary Astrolo

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
If prediction in astrology somehow vanished, would you still practice it?

Trick question ... Astrology is prediction ... without it, there is nothing to practice.
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Unread 10-12-2013, 02:00 AM
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I do care that Paul left our forum due to this endless argument. Astrology can be a belief system like religion and no religion on earth had ever came to any form of major agreement but caused many wars. I do not like to see members splitting into different sides and or leave. I had doubt of being in a forum when senior members not acting in a way to promote astrology or explore knowledge and skills or reading chart for new members or suggesting books for them, instead focusing on theoretical matters.

I do not like members and non members going through the posts and see disharmony argument in this forum. Arguments can bring growth but also can cause many damages. That just how I feel and again the focus here is people just wanted to win the argument. My focus here is to learn astrology and learn how to help people. I had concluded morality is subject matter so I will learn from my daily life and experiences to be more sensitive instead of being here wasting my energy to say what is moral or not moral while I have the practical chance to learn more in real life and as well as interacting with members in humane manners. If I believe myself have compassion to be moral I should take actions to act like one.

People are whom they are written all over their natal chart.

I would like to put my focus on sharpening my skills to be a good astrologer which I had described how that person should be in my subjective visions.

This is my last post on this morality topic once again.

Last edited by poyi; 10-12-2013 at 02:02 AM.
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Unread 10-12-2013, 02:27 AM
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Re: Relationships and Morality of Predicting Those In Natal As Well As Horary Astrolo

Excuse me one last thing.

When we consider new members as vulnerable, we should remind ourself senior members are just the same. Be careful with our words and I shall also remind myself, for we have no way of finding out. When I needed to speak of the observations I did and it should be adequate. Anyway my subjective views once again. Agree or disagree it doesn't matter.
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Unread 10-12-2013, 04:29 AM
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Re: Relationships and Morality of Predicting Those In Natal As Well As Horary Astrolo

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Trick question ... Astrology is prediction ... without it, there is nothing to practice.
Why would you say so? There is ample, ample evidence in astrology to the contrary. Shall I begin with Hellenistic astrologers (like Vettius Valens) and their genethliacal character delineations?

I suggest that you limit yourself unnecessarily.
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C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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Unread 10-13-2013, 02:02 PM
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Re: Relationships and Morality of Predicting Those In Natal As Well As Horary Astrolo

I also think the outer planets transit maybe in contact with the forum's natal chart and to some members as well. Although tsmall and JupiterAsc don't use modern outer for other whom use should examine your own chart as these slow moving transit can cause a lot of tension as well as projecting unfavourable energy.

For myself Uranus is at my 8th house cusp and later part of the 4th house with no contact with any natal planets. The only time was last year when Uranus at the antisicon point of my natal Mars when I had the accident Uranus was approaching 8th house cusp. Mars is the natal 8th house ruler and mutual ruler of 3rd/1st house. Right now it is showed as me dealing with the compensation case.

Last edited by poyi; 10-13-2013 at 02:06 PM.
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Unread 10-13-2013, 03:14 PM
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please get back on topic

All,

Please get back on topic. While it is the normal policy of this forum to keep one User ID per person in the interest of preventing ID "spoofing", the site owner has the final say on all matters of who is and is not a member of the Forum and may make exceptions to this rule as they see fit. If you have any questions about this matter of Paul and Mandy's User ID please PM the site owner directly (pwadm).

I have deleted all conversations on this matter as being disruptive of this thread on relationships predicting in astrology.

Back on topic,

Tim

UPDATE: This issue is already being discussed on the "Help" section of the Forum:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=45277
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Unread 10-18-2013, 03:33 PM
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Re: Relationships and Morality of Predicting Those In Natal As Well As Horary Astrolo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marinka
Trick question ... Astrology is prediction ... without it, there is nothing to practice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Why would you say so? There is ample, ample evidence in astrology to the contrary. Shall I begin with Hellenistic astrologers (like Vettius Valens) and their genethliacal character delineations?

I suggest that you limit yourself unnecessarily.

My views are such that I never seriously ponder the past for long and I always fixate on the future.

When someone looks at the natal chart, they are looking at what someone was born with and to use only that for character analysis ignores what the transits do as they move through a person's chart and changes the experiences and builds more into the chart than what was there at birth time.

To only look at a natal chart and delineate just that chart does not take into consideration that much of what is seen may have been worked through as a person moves through life yet, the astrologer could be talking as if this is a problem that will be with a person through life. Could be very damaging to a client.

Even with predictions, I find that I am lacking in the information that the cycles can provide because I have not gone through an entire person's life to determine what else that "pluto" has done as it has moved through a person's chart -- that could be very important. Would also take more than 1 week of time to do a "life reading".

A perfect example of how far-reaching certain events in a person's life are (some threads on this currently) would be children that are abducted early in life and discovered years later.

Your suggestion that I am limiting myself -- hardly. The future is my vista ...

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Unread 10-18-2013, 10:29 PM
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Re: Relationships and Morality of Predicting Those In Natal As Well As Horary Astrolo

Marinka, I am thinking of the sorts of questions we see all the time. "Why am I 40 and still single?" Or "Here's the synastry with my BF: does this look like a good match?"

Note that these are not prediction requests like, "When will I start a permanent relationship?" Or "Will my BF and I get married?" We can look at "why" and "what" questions based entirely on the nativity.

Answers to these question might possibly benefit from a horary reading, a nativity-based time-line and forecast, or crystal ball; but really the natal chart as-is gives you enough to go on. In the case of synastry I look at some key placements involving the sun, moon, Venus, Mars, and perhaps the ascendant of each person; with other factors as indicated by the horoscope placements. I might look at a mid-point composite chart, also with no predictive intent.

An analogy for a birth chart is that it is like a road map. Sometimes you want to know more about the road ahead or behind. But the map is still the same map regardless of your current position on it, and it says a lot about your life journey as-is and throughout.
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C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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