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  #176  
Unread 01-08-2020, 10:34 AM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
History is not only written by people
it is also written by the “winner” of a conflict.
And the history of people tends to be centered around conflicts
US history teaches about the patriotism of the colonists
against the big bad imperial British army.
The way the war is taught in Britain is very very different.
Winners or losers, there are multiple sides to every story
for example
"...In light of the U.N. language
even putting aside some of its looser constructions
it is impossible to know what transpired in the Americas
during the sixteenth, seventeenth, eighteenth, and nineteenth centuries
and not conclude that it was genocide....."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genoci...genous_peoples
Interesting observation of historical bias, do you think it might also transpire in astrological history?

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  #177  
Unread 01-08-2020, 10:42 AM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

Hi Jup,
Hi David,


I would agree and concur, the error of precession isn't that large to effect an age of the Zodiac, i do think the Battle of the Eclipse was on the right date, although not a full eclipse, but if a dark cloud moved in front of the Sun it would seem very dark!


We all have different expertise, and i find your work on this fascinating, i find investigating ancient dates tedious regarding slight errors in precession.


There is so much i have to think of regarding ancient dates, the Thebes alignment of Sirius on sunset previous to 1st January 0045 BC was one of them.


However i'm 95% sure precession didn't effect the alignment, strangely if it did, the alignment would follow the Nile up to Aswan where Egyptian priests always looked for the heliacal rising of Sirius, or down the Nile towards Memphis, both of which doesn't change my hypothesis about the Plolemaic pharaoh Cleopatra.


Please continue, as i feel i deal with small margins of precession and you deal with larger margins regarding astrological ages.


On another thread when you are ready, i would love to hear your thoughts regarding Sirius that you mentioned earlier, regarding the ages.

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  #178  
Unread 01-08-2020, 11:16 PM
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Smile Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

Between the two types of astrological Ages, tropical has the advantage of using astronomy for both the transiting Age-indicator AND the Sign locations. Practicing siderealists have about a 4 degree difference in Sign-placements, which affects the Age start-dates by as much as 300 years; and, tropical astrologers who co-opt the sidereal zodiac for Ages-only purposes add at another 300 years to the endless, opinion-based start-dates.
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  #179  
Unread 01-08-2020, 11:19 PM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

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Between the two types of astrological Ages, tropical has the advantage of using astronomy for both the transiting Age-indicator AND the Sign locations. Practicing siderealists have about a 4 degree difference in Sign-placements, which affects the Age start-dates by as much as 300 years; and, tropical astrologers who co-opt the sidereal zodiac for Ages-only purposes add at another 300 years to the endless, opinion-based start-dates.
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Interesting observation of historical bias, do you think
it might also transpire in astrological history?
Indubitably - bias is ubiquitous
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  #180  
Unread 01-10-2020, 06:56 PM
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Smile Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

Since what characterizes an astrological Age is the aggregate result of the effect it has in various ways in everyone's Natal-chart at once, for so many centuries, it behooves tropical astrologers to determine the Age-effect in tropical Charts.

It's patently obvious that the famous sidereal Ages can ONLY be determined in a sidereal Chart, NOT in a tropical one.
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  #181  
Unread 01-10-2020, 06:58 PM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

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Since what characterizes an astrological Age is the aggregate result of the effect it has in various ways in everyone's Natal-chart at once, for so many centuries, it behooves tropical astrologers to determine the Age-effect in tropical Charts.

It's patently obvious that the famous sidereal Ages can ONLY be determined in a sidereal Chart, NOT in a tropical one.
Behooves? ME? How exactly?
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  #182  
Unread 01-10-2020, 07:03 PM
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Smile Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

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Behooves? ME? How exactly?
Yes, "behooves" is a great word!
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  #183  
Unread 01-10-2020, 07:09 PM
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Smile Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

A tropical Natal-chart can be ANTI the Age of Aquarius, and PRO the Age of Capricorn. I'm pro the Age of Sagittarius, which is the current background Age, and pro the Aquarian Age to come. Not too keen on the current foreground Age of Capricorn.
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  #184  
Unread 01-10-2020, 08:31 PM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

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Yes, "behooves" is a great word!
Do astrological ages behoove traditional astrology?
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  #185  
Unread 01-10-2020, 08:45 PM
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Smile Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

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Do astrological ages behoove traditional astrology?
Well, if you're a dyed-in-the-wool Trad, your expectations for the Aquarian Age will enhance the Traditionalistic doom and gloom factor.
Nothing to look forward to except more of the Greater Malefic's Age-rulership.

Last edited by david starling; 01-10-2020 at 08:54 PM.
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  #186  
Unread 01-11-2020, 06:10 AM
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There is one other possibility for a Traditionalistic astrologer regarding the rulership of the tropical Aquarian Age--Even though Saturn's rulership will continue on, following the Age of Capricorn, it may be a different version of Saturn, very similar in some ways to the Uranian rulership of Aquarius in Modernistic astrology. I've likened it to the ancient alchemical belief that the metal lead, associated with Saturn, can be changed into gold. THAT would be something to look forward to--Saturn as a Benefic, rather than Malefic.
Since the Signs impart qualities to the rulers, it just could be that Saturn's extremely long sojourn in Aquarius in place of Capricorn will cause a change for the better in how well we, as a species, are able to deal with Saturn's influence in our Charts.

Last edited by david starling; 01-11-2020 at 06:17 AM.
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  #187  
Unread 01-11-2020, 08:53 AM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

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Well, if you're a dyed-in-the-wool Trad, your expectations for the Aquarian Age will enhance the Traditionalistic doom and gloom factor.
Nothing to look forward to except more of the Greater Malefic's Age-rulership.
So nothing behooving for most bred-in-the-bone tradionalist such as myself.
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  #188  
Unread 01-11-2020, 09:39 AM
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Smile Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

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So nothing behooving for most bred-in-the-bone tradionalist such as myself.
Unless you need to augment the doom and gloom attitude of Traditionalistic astrology.

Of course, you have your religion to boost your spirit, you don't need astrology for that.
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  #189  
Unread 01-11-2020, 11:15 AM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

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Unless you need to augment the doom and gloom attitude of Traditionalistic astrology.

Of course, you have your religion to boost your spirit, you don't need astrology for that.
Fire and brimstone definitely encourages a sober spirit and repentance.
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  #190  
Unread 01-12-2020, 10:54 PM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

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Between the two types of astrological Ages, tropical has the advantage of using astronomy for both the transiting Age-indicator AND the Sign locations. Practicing siderealists have about a 4 degree difference in Sign-placements, which affects the Age start-dates by as much as 300 years; and, tropical astrologers who co-opt the sidereal zodiac for Ages-only purposes add at another 300 years to the endless,


opinion-based start-dates.
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  #191  
Unread 01-13-2020, 01:01 AM
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Smile Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

The Mean setting of the tropical Age-indicator reaches tropical Aquarius in 2149. That's the effective start of the Aquarian Age under Uranian rulership, moving Saturn into a weaker, background Age condition.

Interesting that one opinion regarding the sidereal Aquarian Age start-date, notably that of Robert Hand, has that same year, 2149, obtained by using the Year 1 A.D. as the ingress of the Vernal Point into sidereal Pisces.
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  #192  
Unread 01-22-2020, 05:53 PM
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Smile Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

The extremely well-known and much talked-about SIDEREAL Age-indicator position in a sidereal zodiac, has a nearly constant rate of continuous, retrograde-motion @ 71.6 years per 1 degree of transit.

However, to declare the actual start-date for the sidereal Age of Aquarius, it's also necessary to know the exact location of the sidereal Sign-boundaries, and THAT'S a matter of opinion.

The sidereal Aquarian Age formally begins when the chosen Age-indicator, (which is almost universally the Line of Intersection of Earth's orbital and equatorial planes), actually REACHES the Sign-boundary between sidereal Pisces and Aquarius. But, with the opinion-based disagreement over where that boundary should be located, one astrologer can have a sidereal Aquarian Age that's already begun, whereas another can have it beginning several Centuries in the future.
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  #193  
Unread 01-22-2020, 08:32 PM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

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The extremely well-known and much talked-about SIDEREAL Age-indicator position in a sidereal zodiac, has a nearly constant rate of continuous, retrograde-motion @ 71.6 years per 1 degree of transit.

However, to declare the actual start-date for the sidereal Age of Aquarius, it's also necessary to know the exact location of the sidereal Sign-boundaries, and THAT'S a matter of opinion.

The sidereal Aquarian Age formally begins when the chosen Age-indicator, (which is almost universally the Line of Intersection of Earth's orbital and equatorial planes), actually REACHES the Sign-boundary between sidereal Pisces and Aquarius. But, with the opinion-based disagreement over where that boundary should be located, one astrologer can have a sidereal Aquarian Age that's already begun, whereas another can have it beginning several Centuries in the future.
Indian astrologers will reach the age of Aquarius way after Western siderealists using Aldebaran 15!
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  #194  
Unread 01-22-2020, 09:16 PM
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Indian astrologers will reach the age of Aquarius way after Western siderealists using Aldebaran 15!
It appears that most Western siderealists are using that method of Sign-placement. It gives the year of ingress of the Line of Intersection into sidereal Aquarius as 2377.
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  #195  
Unread 01-22-2020, 09:43 PM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

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It appears that most Western siderealists are using that method of Sign-placement. It gives the year of ingress of the Line of Intersection into sidereal Aquarius as 2377.
Jews say the deadline for arrival is 2240. Galactic center maybe?
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  #196  
Unread 01-22-2020, 09:47 PM
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Jews say the deadline for arrival is 2240. Galactic center maybe?
Which Jews?
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  #197  
Unread 01-22-2020, 09:49 PM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

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Which Jews?
Orthodox Jews throughout the ages - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_6000

Compare with the book of Revelation from Jesus Christ.
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  #198  
Unread 01-22-2020, 10:12 PM
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Orthodox Jews throughout the ages - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_6000

Compare with the book of Revelation from Jesus Christ.
Abraham Ibn Ezra was one who believed it.
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  #199  
Unread 01-22-2020, 10:20 PM
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Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

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Abraham Ibn Ezra was one who believed it.
Abraham Ibn Ezra was an influential Rabbinic authority and Medieval astrologer.
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  #200  
Unread 01-22-2020, 10:27 PM
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Smile Re: A Voyage of Discovery: Astrological Ages for the Tropical Zodiac

Although this thread is specifically about a new method for determining astrological Ages tropically, in addition to sidereally, it was the sidereal Ages that first alerted everyone to the current concept of astrological Ages beginning in the 1930's.

For those new to the subject, the contrast between the two types of astrological Ages is important.

A connection between a Messianic Age linked to Precession of the Equinoxes through a sidereal zodiac, but not yet labeled "the Age of Aquarius", first appeared in print in the late 1890's.

Last edited by david starling; 01-22-2020 at 10:35 PM.
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