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  #1  
Unread 01-04-2020, 10:51 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Will he survive the operation?

My brother is having emergency heart surgery and I asked if he will survive the operation. His natal sun is 20 Pisces, which corresponds to the ascendent here, which is what is on my mind. The 3rd house of brothers is mercury, near south node showing his weak health. The part of death is 20 virgo, exactly opposing his natal sun. How will this work out for him?
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  #2  
Unread 01-04-2020, 12:20 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Will he survive the operation?

Ps. I calculated the Part of Death on the basic horary chart. Should I instead calculate it using the 3rd house as ascendent, being a query about my brother?
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  #3  
Unread 01-04-2020, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
My brother is having emergency heart surgery and I asked if he will survive the operation. His natal sun is 20 Pisces, which corresponds to the ascendent here, which is what is on my mind. The 3rd house of brothers is mercury, near south node showing his weak health. The part of death is 20 virgo, exactly opposing his natal sun. How will this work out for him?
Elena, isnít this Moon void of course?

What do you make of Neptune conjunct ascendant?
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  #4  
Unread 01-04-2020, 03:51 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Will he survive the operation?

Yes, the moon is VOC. It is the moment when I asked myself the question.
Neptune conjunct ascendent could refer both to him, pisces, who I was thinking about, or it could refer to me reading the chart.
In fact, because I am involved emotionally, I've asked for help on this one, afraid I would read it wrong.
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  #5  
Unread 01-04-2020, 07:56 PM
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Re: Will he survive the operation?

rough chart
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  #6  
Unread 01-05-2020, 06:59 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Will he survive the operation?

There is an update. The surgeon today will evaluate whether to do open heart surgery, or whether they can just insert stents, which would be much less invasive.
If they decide not to do surgery, this might explain the VOC moon.
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Unread 01-05-2020, 04:17 PM
Aria Venue Aria Venue is offline
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Re: Will he survive the operation?

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Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
Ps. I calculated the Part of Death on the basic horary chart. Should I instead calculate it using the 3rd house as ascendent, being a query about my brother?
sorry to hear this ..i really hope your brother gets better

his problem is serious and i suppose there's no need to explain how is this depicted on this chart...cause you know already that he is seriously ill

in third party questions always we have to consider the relevant cusps..so yes
the basic formula in this chart gives saturn(cap) as his part of death..since you asked
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  #8  
Unread 01-05-2020, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
There is an update. The surgeon today will evaluate whether to do open heart surgery, or whether they can just insert stents, which would be much less invasive.
If they decide not to do surgery, this might explain the VOC moon.
Thank you for the update Elena. Stressful event.
Time will tell the meaning of the VOC Moon. Yes maybe a lesser surgery than what you were envisioning at the time, will suffice to ease the present danger.
The good thing is that Moon is past the possible precipitating event (heart attack? Square from Saturn-Pluto).
Hopefully the Moon en route to a better place means good things in terms of lifestyle changes. Not sure what Uranus is doing there in brotherís 12th but it would be nice to look at it positively, like an awakening, right.
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  #9  
Unread 01-05-2020, 06:01 PM
kalinka kalinka is offline
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Re: Will he survive the operation?

Hello Elena, I'm really sorry for you!
Saturn is the dispositor of Pod and the natural ruler of death but also the 10th house ruler of your brother=the operation if it is a part of the treatment.
Mercury approaches a conjunction with Pluto, Saturn and Sun. In this case conjunction with the Sun is an indication that he will die.
However Moon voc, so maybe the surgery will really not take place.
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  #10  
Unread 01-05-2020, 06:50 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Will he survive the operation?

Thanks aria venue, passiflora and kalinka. (Poor conspiracy theorist apparently got cold feet on this one, thanks anyway for looking at it).
At the moment it looks like surgery is scheduled for Monday morning, not sure what type though. I'm hoping it will not be open heart surgery, effectively voiding the chart.
Good comment about the moon separating from the square with the Saturn/pluto conjunction.
So, recalculating using the 3rd house cusp (my brother) as ascendent:
Part of death is now 27 Capricorn. (squaring moon)
Part of surgery is 16 Leo.
I'll know more tomorrow, thanks to all for your support.
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  #11  
Unread 01-05-2020, 06:59 PM
kalinka kalinka is offline
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Re: Will he survive the operation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
Thanks aria venue, passiflora and kalinka. (Poor conspiracy theorist apparently got cold feet on this one, thanks anyway for looking at it).
At the moment it looks like surgery is scheduled for Monday morning, not sure what type though. I'm hoping it will not be open heart surgery, effectively voiding the chart.
Good comment about the moon separating from the square with the Saturn/pluto conjunction.
So, recalculating using the 3rd house cusp (my brother) as ascendent:
Part of death is now 27 Capricorn. (squaring moon)
Part of surgery is 16 Leo.
I'll know more tomorrow, thanks to all for your support.
Good that you mentioned the part of surgery. I would interpret this that Mercury/Sun conjunction could indicates the surgery but since Moon is voc, he will survive.

Last edited by kalinka; 01-05-2020 at 07:28 PM.
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  #12  
Unread 01-05-2020, 07:01 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Will he survive the operation?

Yes, I was probably overcome by panic and went straight to the part of death, only now did it occur to me to do the obvious, part of surgery! See why I am asking for your help on this?
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  #13  
Unread 01-05-2020, 07:39 PM
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Re: Will he survive the operation?

To elaborate, the VOC suggested that the elements of the question may not come to fruition (like no surgery), and the Moon's last aspect from Saturn suggested that the difficult event has passed.

But Mercury worsens in celestial state, so I'd still err on the side of caution. The chart doesn't suggest that he is out of the clear just yet.
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  #14  
Unread 01-05-2020, 08:16 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Will he survive the operation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
To elaborate, the VOC suggested that the elements of the question may not come to fruition (like no surgery), and the Moon's last aspect from Saturn suggested that the difficult event has passed.

But Mercury worsens in celestial state, so I'd still err on the side of caution. The chart doesn't suggest that he is out of the clear just yet.
Thank you. The surgery is scheduled for tomorrow, so you are right in this.
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Unread 01-05-2020, 08:36 PM
Aria Venue Aria Venue is offline
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Re: Will he survive the operation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
Thanks aria venue, passiflora and kalinka. (Poor conspiracy theorist apparently got cold feet on this one, thanks anyway for looking at it).
At the moment it looks like surgery is scheduled for Monday morning, not sure what type though. I'm hoping it will not be open heart surgery, effectively voiding the chart.
Good comment about the moon separating from the square with the Saturn/pluto conjunction.
So, recalculating using the 3rd house cusp (my brother) as ascendent:
Part of death is now 27 Capricorn. (squaring moon)
Part of surgery is 16 Leo.
I'll know more tomorrow, thanks to all for your support.
part of surgery is not leo is moon this is a day chart..however the surgical knife is always mars and mars in mercury's detriment..(mercury his body, combust by his ill heart sun)
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  #16  
Unread 01-05-2020, 08:47 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Will he survive the operation?

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Originally Posted by Aria Venue View Post
part of surgery is not leo is moon this is a day chart..however the surgical knife is always mars and mars in mercury's detriment..(mercury his body, combust by his ill heart sun)
I rechecked, I had read the mars degrees incorrectly. Sorry.
It is a day chart, and the surgery will be daytime so I used the day formula.
It now comes out 22 cancer.
Exactly opposing Saturn and pluto.
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  #17  
Unread 01-05-2020, 08:54 PM
kalinka kalinka is offline
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Re: Will he survive the operation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
I rechecked, I had read the mars degrees incorrectly. Sorry.
It is a day chart, and the surgery will be daytime so I used the day formula.
It now comes out 22 cancer.
Exactly opposing Saturn and pluto.
usually when seeing the part of surgery on the same degree with the part of death it is an indication that the risk is too high-he should avoid the surgery. however pos is in opposition with saturn, so what does that mean?

Last edited by kalinka; 01-05-2020 at 08:56 PM.
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  #18  
Unread 01-05-2020, 09:01 PM
Aria Venue Aria Venue is offline
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Re: Will he survive the operation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElenaJ View Post
I rechecked, I had read the mars degrees incorrectly. Sorry.
It is a day chart, and the surgery will be daytime so I used the day formula.
It now comes out 22 cancer.
Exactly opposing Saturn and pluto.
it's ok i understand ..still the part of surgery in this case now that you know him, how can help you ? we use that part in questions like will the surgery solve my problem? or is it better to have this surgery or an other non invasive treatment? questions like that or when mars is already taken for example and we want to know how the operation will affect the body, and whether has power over the disease ..mars rules also radix 8th and in third party questions we have to look not only turned but radix also, also sun doesn't also signify the problem his ill heart which is turning combust his body, but also as radix 6th could signify also the operation itself (since as i said mars which is a natural significator of surgical knife in this chart happens to be also radix 8th, significator of death...) so ..my point is: does he have an option of not having this surgery or even rescheduling it for another date ? so to speak create an election chart which might help him overcome possible implications? i think his situation is urgent as you said and there isn't such a possibility...and above all we don't know yet if there is going to be an open heart surgery...at least this is what i've understood so far

Last edited by Aria Venue; 01-06-2020 at 11:06 AM.
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  #19  
Unread 01-05-2020, 09:01 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Will he survive the operation?

It means it's looking worse and worse.
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  #20  
Unread 01-05-2020, 09:03 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Will he survive the operation?

I'm hoping for the VOC moon of the chart to annul everything.
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  #21  
Unread 01-06-2020, 08:52 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Will he survive the operation?

Resolution. This morning they decided to insert stents rather than do open heart surgery. At the moment he is in the operating room.
So VOC moon wins over all else, there was no serious operation, so yes he survives.
Obviously, there are other problems, general health is not good, but he will survive.
Thanks to all, you're a great community of people and resources.
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  #22  
Unread 01-06-2020, 11:47 PM
kalinka kalinka is offline
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Re: Will he survive the operation?

good news! thank you for the update. I hope he gets better soon!

Last edited by kalinka; 01-06-2020 at 11:57 PM.
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  #23  
Unread 01-07-2020, 12:30 AM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Will he survive the operation?

Thank you for your wishes.
Just returned from the hospital, he is doing well, but an open-heart would have been the end, he's weak, as others saw in the chart. Luckily he is in an excellent heart hospital, so they decided against the risk.
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  #24  
Unread 01-07-2020, 08:58 AM
Aria Venue Aria Venue is offline
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Re: Will he survive the operation?

i am so glad.I really hope he gets better soon
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  #25  
Unread 01-10-2020, 03:54 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Will he survive the operation?

Small update for some insight.
For the moment, the situation is improving, my brother will be transferred to another institution for physical therapy, which he does not feel he needs (!). Contrary to all signs and advice.
So I looked at his chart.
Might not come as a surprise to anyone, he has a natal moon/jupiter opposition at 23 cancer/capricorn! Jupiter is co-ruler of his pisces sun.
His progressed chart Node axis is at 25 Aries/libra, so also involved in the Saturn/pluto transit.
Progressed moon is at 12 pisces, near Neptune, co-ruler of his sun at 19 pisces.
Progressed sun at 29 taurus squares progressed Saturn at 29 Leo.
Progressed Jupiter at 2 Aquarius squares transiting Uranus.
His SR for 2019 has moon conjunct mars, sun square Jupiter.
The SR for 2020 has a Venus/uranus conjunction and a sun/moon opposition.
Judging from this I would say he is a very lucky man so far, now I'm hoping he will learn from it and take the steps necessary to improve his general health.
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